Repository navigation
is express dying? #2844
Description
Activity
What? Doug Wilson is doing a spectacular job of maintenance. One of the hardest working folks I've ever encountered in open source.
I agree with @aredridel Doug wilson is always working his ass off. I'm a huge Tj fan @tj . I think what your comparing is, express when it was hot & it was the go to framework for Node.js , but now there are more frameworks vying for the attention of developers. I don't think you're completely off your rocker, but to each his own 😄 👍
I know Doug Wilson was committing to express (and other TJ's project) since its beginning and i appreciate his work. However i don't know if he works for strongloop now and have less free time.
please, look at commits
there are nothing except new npm versions and some docs since august and a very few beforePR for async route handlers was introduced in november and not merged yet
#2809release 5.0 was initiated on july but stale since november
#2237@TrejGun If the intent of your post is to shame strongloop, you really need to mention strongloop in the post, because right now it looks like you're shitting all over @dougwilson's hard work.
Most of the bulk of Express' codebase has been refactored out into external dependencies, which Doug is constantly maintaining. That is why the only commits you see are npm version bumps, because he's updating for changes in those dependencies. Express 5 will take this even further by completely removing the routing engine from express core. Look at Doug's public timeline and tell me that he isn't actively working on Express.
Doug is one of the hardest working OSS contributors in the NodeJS community. Comments such as yours not only undermine his massive efforts, but also contribute to developer burn out (which Doug has recently recovered from). You are not helping with the problem, @TrejGun, you're making it worse.
Hi everyone, reading @TrejGun 's initial post, it doesn't sound directed to me, more directed to the project/StrongLoop/IBM. Thanks for the kind works, everyone, I really want to see the continued success of Express, but the situation of the project ownership makes this extremely difficult.
I am working with IBM to find a good path forward.
Yikes!
Express is awesome. I don't understand why StrongLoop/IBM won't speak, that's absurd.
FWIW projects don't have to change in order to be good. Nothing wrong with a project finding its place and staying relatively put. I haven't been following what's going on with Express, that might not even be the case but that's my opinion.
@tj hallelujah
@dougwilson thank you for taking the time to post publicly about this. You have my support, and the support of the Sails.js core maintainers regardless of what happens. I am hopeful that when the moving parts settle down, IBM will be able to help. Let me know if there's any way I can assist in the interim.
@ChiperSoft don't know what you are about. there is strongloop and there is no Doug's name in the initial post.
@tj very glad to see you in this topic. the life is change. we have big upcoming es6 changes which can help reduce code and improve performance. for example #2809 is only 8 lines but i will shave of 200 lines from each of my projects
@dougwilson thanks for you answer, you just confirmed my guesses about a reason strongloop bought express. at least they don't mind if it die. sad story but not so rare. and the solution is not so rare too.
express has MIT license so anybody can fork it at any time and continue to maintain as express 2.0
what do you think about this?What? Doug Wilson is doing a spectacular job of maintenance. One of the hardest working folks I've ever encountered in open source.
+1
Hey gals and guys. Express is certainly active and poised to move even faster. I agree with concerns that @dougwilson has been unfairly carrying the project maintenance, which just isn't sustainable. I know from experience that triaging issues and working on bugs is not very exciting work. It leads to burn out fairly quickly. It just shows how dedicated @dougwilson is to this project that he has been doing it for this long and without much help.
IBM leadership has heard the call for help loud and clear and is announcing increased sponsorship of the project including two very talented IBM developers: @hacksparrow (Yaapa) and @tunniclm (Mike). Other names are likely to follow as we more clearly understand what is required and how we can assist. This means more dedicated developers on the project than ever before.
We are also looking at ways to optimize how the express and related repositories are organized to make it easier to contribute to the project by community members as individuals and in organizations (including IBM).
This will take some time to get it right and we ask for your patience. Please keep your comments and recommendations coming to ensure all points of view are considered.
I'd love to start contributing to Express but I'm not quite sure where to start. Are there issues I can pick up?
140 remaining items
All, to be certain, we do have a plan that is being discussed with Doug and
a few others. Not all of the details are hammered out yet so we are working
through them a bit before we post the details. I believe we are moving
towards something that the community can embrace but I promise that we'll
post something here to the repo to get the community feedback on it very
soon. I just want to thank you all for the support you've shown to Doug and
to the project, he's done an amazing job developing and maintaining express.
On Jan 26, 2016 2:16 AM, "David Wisner" notifications@github.com wrote:When io.js was discussing the node foundation merge - threads were filled
with individuals with an anti corporate stance. Eg: 'Microsoft will kill
node, they don't even use JavaScript why should we trust them?' - well I
live in Seattle and know people who work there... the anti-corporate
rhetoric isn't based in fact - it's principle. Open source values are
antithetical to corporate values. Open source is a gifting economy like
burning man - you give and expect nothing in return. Another principle is
radical inclusion - but in reality there are logistics in designing theme
camps. CEO's and lots of people in the corporate tech world attend the
event as well, and they do contribute.Express is not 'owned by the communjty' - people with the loudest voice
don't represent a majority. Express was a gift given to us by @tj
https://github.com/tj who transferred responsibility - but it doesn't
change anything. The community has no right demand control of a project
like this - IBM is perfectly capable of maintaining express wants to see
community involvement. If they stop accepting pull requests does what
Joyent did - I think that would justify a community takeover, but we should
give them a chance.In the meantime... if a similar project with open governance and no
corporate involvement took off - I'd use that over express without
question. It's like Debian vs Ubuntu vs LibreLinux vs Fedora etc. etc. - if
you want open governance - FORK IT - and I'll support the project. It's
healthy for the ecosystem.—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#2844 (comment)
.I am donating all of my Node.js modules to the Node.js foundation, to go along with Express.
Hey @dougwilson, I hope that this decision was reached from a good place.
As you've seen, you have a ton of community support behind you, and it looks like the future is bright for these projects.All the best!
(Also thanks to @jasnell for guiding the discussions in a level fashion)👍 @jasnell
(Also thanks to @jasnell for guiding the discussions in a level fashion)@mikeal is who helped me understand what putting Express.js in the foundation means and why it is the right choice. Because it's dependencies are critical to the ability for a working group to affect change in the Express.js codebase, I think that all my modules, which Express either depends on or official Express middleware depend on, should go with the Express repository into the foundation. This will allow a working group to effectively manage Express as well and help move it forward.
@luiselizondo Sounds awesome!
@jasnell If you want for Express to stay well, offer @dougwilson and @Fishrock123 a full-time position and full autonomy and let them do their thing.
Keeping the position of power ("you'll have to see", "you'll talk to Loop guys") brings IBM nothing, except threads like these, while doing what I suggested lets IBM use it in its marketing materials. You should make clear to all interested parties in IBM that that's all they're ever going to get out of it. Sponsors and contributors or Express.I may be old. This GitHub generation of making binding decisions on Slack at 2am is not the world into which Express was purchased. IBM is not a bad company, but they are literally the company of all companies. Gihugey companies like IBM buy a company like StrongLoop and it make take them a year to have enough meetings and conferences to even know what they bought. Decisions are made at a glacial pace relative to closed-source startups, let alone the GitHub model some of you have known, and only known. IBM was writing software before your parents were born. IBM was old before the Internet was born.
Eventually they will get moving on things, but the pace you expect is in no way the pace to which they are generally accustomed. Patience is required. Careful calculated deliberation is the world into which Express was sold. Again, I may be old. They do try.
Can someone lock this conversation? I don't think it is possible for anything constructive to come from leaving this open.
- locked and limited conversation to collaborators
on Feb 29, 2016 Done
Since TJ left the project and it became "property" of StrongLoop the project is slowly dying.
I guess you (StrongLoop) promised TJ and thus a community to continue to maintain the code.
Sure you want to push part of express users to use yours solutions and to make money on support.
But open-source gave a start to your company and if you don't want to share back your code and time, just give a control back to community