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The name #15

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slang25 opened this Issue Feb 16, 2017 · 25 comments

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slang25 commented Feb 16, 2017

AspNetCore.Lambda would be a great name, however there is a lot of buzz at the moment about AWS Lambda, and it's recent .NET Core support (and even F# support!). I wonder if this confusion is limited to me and the people I surround myself with as I am working in a company using AWS heavily, or if this is a wider problem.

Here's a quick list just to illustrate what people might get in a google search:

I wonder what your feeling is on the name, and given that this is in alpha, is this already set in stone for you?

Of course, I could be totally wrong about this.

Also you had a shout out on the ASP.NET Community Standup @ 23:30, I think Damian Edwards is right and an ASP.NET Core template needs to come from the community and I would love to see this library be be part of that template, getting the name right would go a long way towards that IMO.

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dustinmoris Feb 16, 2017

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Man that is funny that you created this issue now, because I was literally JUST about to create such an issue myself and include a poll for people to help me decide.

I think the confusion with AWS Lambda is real and I had two ideas myself:

  • Giraffe
  • Brachios

Both names sound weird initially, but I was looking for a good Lambda logo and when I saw this:

Lambda Logo from Wikimedia

I thought it looks a lot like these:

Giraffe
Brachiossaurus

Obviously both names are very playful and don't mean a lot, but which web product name actually means anything today hey?

It would be memorable and I could easily design a Lambda looking giraffe or brachiossaurus to go along with it as the logo.

What do you think? Any good suggestions?

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dustinmoris commented Feb 16, 2017

Man that is funny that you created this issue now, because I was literally JUST about to create such an issue myself and include a poll for people to help me decide.

I think the confusion with AWS Lambda is real and I had two ideas myself:

  • Giraffe
  • Brachios

Both names sound weird initially, but I was looking for a good Lambda logo and when I saw this:

Lambda Logo from Wikimedia

I thought it looks a lot like these:

Giraffe
Brachiossaurus

Obviously both names are very playful and don't mean a lot, but which web product name actually means anything today hey?

It would be memorable and I could easily design a Lambda looking giraffe or brachiossaurus to go along with it as the logo.

What do you think? Any good suggestions?

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Also I was thinking about the template thing as well. The name ASP.NET Core Lambda would make it a bit more cumbersome for a dotnet new -type aspnetcorelambda CLI command. Something like dotnet new -type giraffe would perhaps be easier

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dustinmoris commented Feb 16, 2017

Also I was thinking about the template thing as well. The name ASP.NET Core Lambda would make it a bit more cumbersome for a dotnet new -type aspnetcorelambda CLI command. Something like dotnet new -type giraffe would perhaps be easier

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dbettin Feb 16, 2017

Agree about the name confusion. In fact, during the asp.net core standup directly after they mentioned this project they mentioned an AWS lambda core project!

I really like the name Eiffel. He was a great builder and architect. Additionally, the Eiffel Tower resembles the Lambda logo.

dbettin commented Feb 16, 2017

Agree about the name confusion. In fact, during the asp.net core standup directly after they mentioned this project they mentioned an AWS lambda core project!

I really like the name Eiffel. He was a great builder and architect. Additionally, the Eiffel Tower resembles the Lambda logo.

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Eiffel is a good name indeed.

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dustinmoris commented Feb 16, 2017

Eiffel is a good name indeed.

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I'm liking Giraffe right now 😃 They are all good suggestions though.

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slang25 commented Feb 16, 2017

I'm liking Giraffe right now 😃 They are all good suggestions though.

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stevedesmond-ca Feb 16, 2017

What's the important part / differentiator? That's it's more functional, or that it's F#? Maybe that could lead in the right direction.

What's the important part / differentiator? That's it's more functional, or that it's F#? Maybe that could lead in the right direction.

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ErikSchierboom Feb 16, 2017

I like Giraffe :)

I like Giraffe :)

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@stevedesmond-ca Hmm.. I don't know, I feel like in .NET they are both kind of the same. Even though you can mimic functional programming in C# it is nowhere near as nice or intuitive as in F#, not even with C# 7. I think when people want to go functional in .NET it basically means adopting F#. What did you have in mind with both options?

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dustinmoris commented Feb 16, 2017

@stevedesmond-ca Hmm.. I don't know, I feel like in .NET they are both kind of the same. Even though you can mimic functional programming in C# it is nowhere near as nice or intuitive as in F#, not even with C# 7. I think when people want to go functional in .NET it basically means adopting F#. What did you have in mind with both options?

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yawaramin Feb 17, 2017

How about Arrow.Net? 'Arrow' as in the function arrow ->, 'Arrow.Net' to be reminiscent of 'ASP.Net'. Maybe even ArrowNetCore.

yawaramin commented Feb 17, 2017

How about Arrow.Net? 'Arrow' as in the function arrow ->, 'Arrow.Net' to be reminiscent of 'ASP.Net'. Maybe even ArrowNetCore.

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Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Giraffe:
So far I count myself + 2 other people who like the name.

Eiffel:
I really like this one as well and if I had to decide myself then I'd struggle, because I see it on parity with Giraffe. If I count myself in then it's 2 votes in total for Eiffel.

Arrow.Net / Arrow Core:
Personally I am not a big fan of {something}.Net names and I am also not very keen on overloading "Core" even more as it already is. I know this sounds contradicting given that I named the library "ASP.NET Core Lambda", but the only reason I chose this name was to express that it is a functional framework (Lambda) for ASP.NET Core.

As we all agree it's not a great name (otherwise this issue wouldn't exist :)) and I'd rather move away from similar troubling names like {something}.net or {something} Core, etc.

If I rename the project then it needs to be a name that is very clear, search and spell friendly and unique (as far as concerned in the .NET space) so that I don't have to go through that same exercise in the future again.

I'll leave this issue open for a few more days and see if there's more ideas/suggestions coming in and then I will make a call :)

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dustinmoris commented Feb 17, 2017

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Giraffe:
So far I count myself + 2 other people who like the name.

Eiffel:
I really like this one as well and if I had to decide myself then I'd struggle, because I see it on parity with Giraffe. If I count myself in then it's 2 votes in total for Eiffel.

Arrow.Net / Arrow Core:
Personally I am not a big fan of {something}.Net names and I am also not very keen on overloading "Core" even more as it already is. I know this sounds contradicting given that I named the library "ASP.NET Core Lambda", but the only reason I chose this name was to express that it is a functional framework (Lambda) for ASP.NET Core.

As we all agree it's not a great name (otherwise this issue wouldn't exist :)) and I'd rather move away from similar troubling names like {something}.net or {something} Core, etc.

If I rename the project then it needs to be a name that is very clear, search and spell friendly and unique (as far as concerned in the .NET space) so that I don't have to go through that same exercise in the future again.

I'll leave this issue open for a few more days and see if there's more ideas/suggestions coming in and then I will make a call :)

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yawaramin Feb 17, 2017

Hmm ... Arrowasp? Or Arrow.Asp.

yawaramin commented Feb 17, 2017

Hmm ... Arrowasp? Or Arrow.Asp.

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ErikSchierboom Feb 17, 2017

As for naming, Eiffel is of course also a programming language, although a very popular one. So that might lead to some search issues.

As for naming, Eiffel is of course also a programming language, although a very popular one. So that might lead to some search issues.

@dustinmoris dustinmoris modified the milestone: Beta Feb 19, 2017

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dbettin Feb 19, 2017

I would say the name Giraffe would lead to more search conflicts than Eiffel.

Also, I have assumed it would still be called something akin to "Eiffel for Asp.net Core". So both points might be futile.

dbettin commented Feb 19, 2017

I would say the name Giraffe would lead to more search conflicts than Eiffel.

Also, I have assumed it would still be called something akin to "Eiffel for Asp.net Core". So both points might be futile.

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slang25 Feb 19, 2017

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@dbettin How so? Here are 2 search results:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Giraffe+.net&oq=Giraffe+.net&aqs=chrome..69i57.1947j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Eiffel+.net&oq=Eiffel+.net&aqs=chrome..69i57.7496j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The Eiffel results are actually .NET related, I think in practice either of those names won't lead to any confusion, but I cannot see how Giraffe would lead to more search conflicts that Eiffel.

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slang25 commented Feb 19, 2017

@dbettin How so? Here are 2 search results:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Giraffe+.net&oq=Giraffe+.net&aqs=chrome..69i57.1947j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Eiffel+.net&oq=Eiffel+.net&aqs=chrome..69i57.7496j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The Eiffel results are actually .NET related, I think in practice either of those names won't lead to any confusion, but I cannot see how Giraffe would lead to more search conflicts that Eiffel.

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dbettin Feb 19, 2017

I was referring to generic queries. But like you said, both are fine in practice. I believe most people would search for Eiffel F# or Giraffe F#.

dbettin commented Feb 19, 2017

I was referring to generic queries. But like you said, both are fine in practice. I believe most people would search for Eiffel F# or Giraffe F#.

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jackfoxy Feb 20, 2017

A meaningful name can help marketing. I like something with lambda in it. That forms an image of functional programming. ASP is associated with the Microsoft stack. How many people still know it stood for Active Server Page? The original tech and today's ASP.NET are pretty removed. How about LambdaASP? Shorter, and shouldn't be confused with AWS Lambda.

A meaningful name can help marketing. I like something with lambda in it. That forms an image of functional programming. ASP is associated with the Microsoft stack. How many people still know it stood for Active Server Page? The original tech and today's ASP.NET are pretty removed. How about LambdaASP? Shorter, and shouldn't be confused with AWS Lambda.

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yup, i think the "asp" must be in the name 'cause this runs on top of it. I like something like @jackfoxy proposed, or even shorter, lambdAsp, reusing that a. And the logo would be replacing that A whit the lambda symbol. What do you think?

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nicolocodev commented Feb 24, 2017

yup, i think the "asp" must be in the name 'cause this runs on top of it. I like something like @jackfoxy proposed, or even shorter, lambdAsp, reusing that a. And the logo would be replacing that A whit the lambda symbol. What do you think?

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@nicolocodev lambdΛsp
I think that lambda is a confusing term (see first post), if it wasn't then AspNetCore.Lambda is descriptive and is not a problem.

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slang25 commented Feb 24, 2017

@nicolocodev lambdΛsp
I think that lambda is a confusing term (see first post), if it wasn't then AspNetCore.Lambda is descriptive and is not a problem.

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Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback. I would have to recount again, but by briefly looking at the responses and upvotes I believe Giraffe is still ahead and I was already playing with some logo ideas for that name as well.

Here are my current thoughts:

I agree that a link to ASP.NET Core would be nice, because this framework is essentially designed for it. I also agree though that there should be an "ASP" free name, which can be easily used in everyday lingo, search results, etc.

Let's say we go with the name Giraffe. I think the long official name could be still "ASP.NET Core Giraffe" or "ASP.NET Giraffe", but short and more commonly used it would be simply "Giraffe" (I would also re-name the library and namespaces to Giraffe then). The crucial point here is that if someone doesn't type the whole long name they will still get meaningful search results.

I think the logo could look very much like a giraffe looking lambda sign and I was also playing with the idea that the text could be written a bit like "Gira#e" where the # can be two "f" sightly designed into a # sign. or maybe one f and the other f an # or so... I don't know.. I am not really the creative guy, but I will ask some of my work mates who do branding for a living to help me with that :)

My plan is to finalize the Razor work started by @nicolocodev this weekend before doing any renaming (because that will create even more merging issues) and after that I will come back to this thread and do a final check.

Whatever the end result will be I hope you will like it (over time) and I am thankful for all the input and help in making that decision!

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dustinmoris commented Feb 24, 2017

Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback. I would have to recount again, but by briefly looking at the responses and upvotes I believe Giraffe is still ahead and I was already playing with some logo ideas for that name as well.

Here are my current thoughts:

I agree that a link to ASP.NET Core would be nice, because this framework is essentially designed for it. I also agree though that there should be an "ASP" free name, which can be easily used in everyday lingo, search results, etc.

Let's say we go with the name Giraffe. I think the long official name could be still "ASP.NET Core Giraffe" or "ASP.NET Giraffe", but short and more commonly used it would be simply "Giraffe" (I would also re-name the library and namespaces to Giraffe then). The crucial point here is that if someone doesn't type the whole long name they will still get meaningful search results.

I think the logo could look very much like a giraffe looking lambda sign and I was also playing with the idea that the text could be written a bit like "Gira#e" where the # can be two "f" sightly designed into a # sign. or maybe one f and the other f an # or so... I don't know.. I am not really the creative guy, but I will ask some of my work mates who do branding for a living to help me with that :)

My plan is to finalize the Razor work started by @nicolocodev this weekend before doing any renaming (because that will create even more merging issues) and after that I will come back to this thread and do a final check.

Whatever the end result will be I hope you will like it (over time) and I am thankful for all the input and help in making that decision!

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mikeball Feb 27, 2017

Just to throw a couple other ideas out there that try to associate with the letter F.

phaser mvc (sounds like F)

asp.net [animal-that-starts-with-letter-f] mvc
e.g. falcon, ferret, finch, frog, flamingo, fox

asp.net f'n mvc (as in we use "asp.net fn mvc" my personal favorite would be so great to say in business meetings)

or maybe play off the language improvement from F#?
sharper mvc

or along the lines of arrows
quiver mvc
fletch mvc (the feathers on arrows)

Just to throw a couple other ideas out there that try to associate with the letter F.

phaser mvc (sounds like F)

asp.net [animal-that-starts-with-letter-f] mvc
e.g. falcon, ferret, finch, frog, flamingo, fox

asp.net f'n mvc (as in we use "asp.net fn mvc" my personal favorite would be so great to say in business meetings)

or maybe play off the language improvement from F#?
sharper mvc

or along the lines of arrows
quiver mvc
fletch mvc (the feathers on arrows)

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@mikeball I would try to avoid MVC as this is what this library kills and replaces. Sounds like @dustinmoris has landed on a name now.

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slang25 commented Feb 27, 2017

@mikeball I would try to avoid MVC as this is what this library kills and replaces. Sounds like @dustinmoris has landed on a name now.

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nojaf Feb 27, 2017

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I'm in favor for Giraffe, it's simple and has a nice ring to it.
I don't really think that the name should contain any references to a functional programming thing, ASP, .NET or Core.

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nojaf commented Feb 27, 2017

I'm in favor for Giraffe, it's simple and has a nice ring to it.
I don't really think that the name should contain any references to a functional programming thing, ASP, .NET or Core.

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dustinmoris Mar 3, 2017

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I renamed the project to Giraffe now. Thank you all for your input!

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dustinmoris commented Mar 3, 2017

I renamed the project to Giraffe now. Thank you all for your input!

@dustinmoris dustinmoris closed this Mar 3, 2017

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Hi all, I'd like to request your help again for finding the right logo now. Please see #43. Thank you!

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dustinmoris commented Apr 21, 2017

Hi all, I'd like to request your help again for finding the right logo now. Please see #43. Thank you!

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