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Render the area of maritime / ship museums #2672

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dandv opened this Issue Jul 5, 2017 · 14 comments

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dandv commented Jul 5, 2017

Tag:historic=ship is "for a decommissioned ship/submarine which has become a tourist attraction and generally remains in one place". The page links to a few examples, such as this one:

image

A visitor only sees the name of the museum floating on the water. Can OSM render that area on the map, so it's closer to the underlying data?

image

@kocio-pl kocio-pl added the cartography label Jul 5, 2017

@kocio-pl kocio-pl added this to the New features milestone Jul 5, 2017

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imagico Jul 11, 2017

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Just noticed this has not been answered yet.

There are about 500 uses of historic=ship on areas not all of which are actually swimming, 140 of these also have a building tag, half of them use building=ship. There is a total of 160 building=ship.

I am mostly wondering about stationary ships that are not historic and not museums.

Anyway i see no problem rendering areas with historic=ship like buildings - it seems sufficiently well established that the tag is not meant to be used for wrecks.

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imagico commented Jul 11, 2017

Just noticed this has not been answered yet.

There are about 500 uses of historic=ship on areas not all of which are actually swimming, 140 of these also have a building tag, half of them use building=ship. There is a total of 160 building=ship.

I am mostly wondering about stationary ships that are not historic and not museums.

Anyway i see no problem rendering areas with historic=ship like buildings - it seems sufficiently well established that the tag is not meant to be used for wrecks.

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dieterdreist commented Jul 11, 2017

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imagico Jul 11, 2017

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I don't want this to drift again into a tagging discussion so just quickly: The tag documentation for historic=ship says tag for a decommissioned ship/submarine - indicating it is meant for ships that have been originally built and used for a different purpose. A purpose built houseboat is therefore quite clearly not a historic=ship - for this we have building=houseboat - which is however limited to housing purposes by definition.

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imagico commented Jul 11, 2017

I don't want this to drift again into a tagging discussion so just quickly: The tag documentation for historic=ship says tag for a decommissioned ship/submarine - indicating it is meant for ships that have been originally built and used for a different purpose. A purpose built houseboat is therefore quite clearly not a historic=ship - for this we have building=houseboat - which is however limited to housing purposes by definition.

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dieterdreist commented Jul 11, 2017

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sabas Jul 14, 2017

Here are two submarines which are accessible in a museum exposition

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/41677804
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/162825962

sabas commented Jul 14, 2017

Here are two submarines which are accessible in a museum exposition

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/41677804
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/162825962

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Bibi56 Jul 17, 2017

a stationary ship is always "historic", or do you know other examples?

You may consider La Recouvrance as historic (it's a replicate of an historic vessel). N.B.: the pontoon is missing here.
But L'Abeille Bourbon is an active work-boat (a tow-ship). Note: a previous tag building=boat has been removed.
Note: there are weather conditions for presence at this place (Beaufort scale < 5). And tide conditions as well (no neap tide). Not speaking about distress alerts of course.

Bibi56 commented Jul 17, 2017

a stationary ship is always "historic", or do you know other examples?

You may consider La Recouvrance as historic (it's a replicate of an historic vessel). N.B.: the pontoon is missing here.
But L'Abeille Bourbon is an active work-boat (a tow-ship). Note: a previous tag building=boat has been removed.
Note: there are weather conditions for presence at this place (Beaufort scale < 5). And tide conditions as well (no neap tide). Not speaking about distress alerts of course.

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HolgerJeromin Jul 20, 2017

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If a ship is not "always" at this place I would not map it.

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HolgerJeromin commented Jul 20, 2017

If a ship is not "always" at this place I would not map it.

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Bibi56 Jul 21, 2017

If a ship is not "always" at this place I would not map it.

I wouldn't either and was surprised to see the vessels on the map. But it was not the question ;-).

Well if you tag it with conditions, then it makes sense. You map show shops even if they are closed. Ideally you add opening hours.

Both vessels can be visited. For La Recouvrance the pontoon has a sign on it, we could remove the Recouvrance and add "Ponton de la Recouvrance" on the pontoon, but it's more a description than a name.

Now if you're looking for La Recouvrance, Brest, you find it. And enjoy the sail trip later.
You won't ask for "Ponton de la Recouvrance, Brest", would you?

For ferries, you don't have the issue as the route is shown on the map.

Bibi56 commented Jul 21, 2017

If a ship is not "always" at this place I would not map it.

I wouldn't either and was surprised to see the vessels on the map. But it was not the question ;-).

Well if you tag it with conditions, then it makes sense. You map show shops even if they are closed. Ideally you add opening hours.

Both vessels can be visited. For La Recouvrance the pontoon has a sign on it, we could remove the Recouvrance and add "Ponton de la Recouvrance" on the pontoon, but it's more a description than a name.

Now if you're looking for La Recouvrance, Brest, you find it. And enjoy the sail trip later.
You won't ask for "Ponton de la Recouvrance, Brest", would you?

For ferries, you don't have the issue as the route is shown on the map.

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pnorman Aug 7, 2017

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a stationary ship is always "historic", or do you know other examples?

There are abandoned ships that are permanently moored up - at least for several years.

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pnorman commented Aug 7, 2017

a stationary ship is always "historic", or do you know other examples?

There are abandoned ships that are permanently moored up - at least for several years.

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Tomasz-W Feb 25, 2018

Remember, that in OSM we map mainly ground level. The outline from
#2672 (comment)
is in some way "in the air".

Ship cross-section to show what I mean:
http://directtrafficsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/thehull.jpg

We could consider rendering it like man_made=pier or man_made=bridge - another objects "in the air".

Tomasz-W commented Feb 25, 2018

Remember, that in OSM we map mainly ground level. The outline from
#2672 (comment)
is in some way "in the air".

Ship cross-section to show what I mean:
http://directtrafficsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/thehull.jpg

We could consider rendering it like man_made=pier or man_made=bridge - another objects "in the air".

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dieterdreist commented Feb 25, 2018

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polarbearing Feb 26, 2018

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Area outline rendering for museum is planned in #2704. Thus this issue would be solved en passant, I suggest to close as duplicate.

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polarbearing commented Feb 26, 2018

Area outline rendering for museum is planned in #2704. Thus this issue would be solved en passant, I suggest to close as duplicate.

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Tomasz-W Feb 26, 2018

Area outline rendering for museum is planned in #2704. Thus this issue would be solved en passant, I suggest to close as duplicate.

Not all of these ships are museums (some of them are tagged just as historic=ship) so it isn't the same thing.
Notice also, that outline without anything inside would look a little bit weird on water areas.

Tomasz-W commented Feb 26, 2018

Area outline rendering for museum is planned in #2704. Thus this issue would be solved en passant, I suggest to close as duplicate.

Not all of these ships are museums (some of them are tagged just as historic=ship) so it isn't the same thing.
Notice also, that outline without anything inside would look a little bit weird on water areas.

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matkoniecz May 9, 2018

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Closing as duplicate of #2704

In addition permanently moored ships are frequently tagged with building tag - see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buildings and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhouseboat

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matkoniecz commented May 9, 2018

Closing as duplicate of #2704

In addition permanently moored ships are frequently tagged with building tag - see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buildings and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhouseboat

@matkoniecz matkoniecz closed this May 9, 2018

@matkoniecz matkoniecz added the duplicate label May 9, 2018

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