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Use violet-yellow color range for roads #3540

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kocio-pl opened this issue Nov 30, 2018 · 16 comments

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@kocio-pl
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commented Nov 30, 2018

This ticket is about implementing roads color palette from alternative-colors style @imagico fork, described in this blog post: http://blog.imagico.de/more-new-colors/ .

roadcolor_z15

This is just an improvement of the current roads color scheme. Big road style redesign in 2015 (#1736) was largely a successful change, except some corner cases. like paths or tertiary roads. @matkoniecz used a clever hack to make red-yellow palette distinguishable enough, but it meant that tertiary roads need to be white - just bolder than all the lower classes. Yet this was still just a hack, design wise tertiary roads were left behind.

Unfortunately attempt to add lighter yellow was a failure (#2228 (comment)), because the palette was just too short. Extending it with a dark violet does the trick. It allows to make tertiary to not be oversized, which looks bad on two-carriage ways:

screenshot_2018-11-30 openstreetmap

Current works on admin borders color change lead to some grey+violet shade, which does not create problems - even 50% gray+violet is different enough (#3489):

sbbo0u5x
6 nsthx_

Now I feel 75% grey proposition is even better, which means further color distance from the borders.

A look at the roads comparison shows also that this change makes secondary roads thinner, which might help with similar two carriage ways problem with secondary:

screenshot_2018-11-30 openstreetmap 1

@kocio-pl kocio-pl added the roads label Nov 30, 2018

@kocio-pl kocio-pl added this to the Bugs and improvements milestone Nov 30, 2018

@kocio-pl kocio-pl changed the title Use violet-yellow range for roads Use violet-yellow color range for roads Nov 30, 2018

@jeisenbe

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commented Nov 30, 2018

@kocio-pl

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commented Nov 30, 2018

This chunk is only about the roads to keep the problem manageable. However footway and path rendering change can be discussed in a separate ticket.

@kocio-pl

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commented Nov 30, 2018

Another consideration for yellow tertiary roads is that on the bare ground white tertiary are hardly visible, while yellow secondary are OK:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/2.8702/11.3902

screenshot_2018-11-30 openstreetmap 3

@Adamant36

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commented Nov 30, 2018

I'd like to see minor unclassified roads rendered differently then residential. Often times they are wider and contain heavier type traffic. At least here in America with roads in industrial and retail zones. Plus, most roads that qualify as unclassified in America seem to just be tagged as residential. Id like to see that change. Maybe rendering them differently so people know they are different and that residential roads aren't a catch all would help.

@Tomasz-W

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commented Nov 30, 2018

As there are hundreds of OSM styles (and another maps), Humanitarian style is the only one using violet roads which I know. For me, it's a totally weird idea. and I think we should sticle with classinc white-yellow-orange-red roads palette. I also find this a some regression beacause during last few years we was consequently dropping "screaming" colours, see: http://bl.ocks.org/matthijsmelissen/raw/7d2b0538a8b64b9d31e2/#14.00/51.4923/0.0425

@matkoniecz

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commented Nov 30, 2018

Humanitarian style is the only one using violet roads which I know

For me prominent case of purple for major roads is map style used by the Compass company (makes high-quality hiking maps of Poland, not OSM focused).

I tried really hard to use purple during road redesign but it was conflicting primarily with borders.

@jragusa

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commented Nov 30, 2018

I have a mixed feeling with this proposition. I also notice that several country (at least in Europe) use a blue or green shade for motorways.

@dieterdreist

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commented Nov 30, 2018

@matkoniecz

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commented Nov 30, 2018

@Adamant36 @dieterdreist

minor unclassified roads rendered differently then residential

Can you open a new issue for this discussion? See title of this issue.

Can you specify exact zlevels where either residential should be made weaker or unclassified stronger? From what I remember I tested it but I found no zlevels where either unclassified should be stronger or residential weaker from each other.

@kocio-pl

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commented Nov 30, 2018

@Tomasz-W

As there are hundreds of OSM styles (and another maps), Humanitarian style is the only one using violet roads which I know.

I don't even know other map styles (I don't even check how GMaps look like) and I didn't know what HOT style uses. I know however that most map styles are specialized (so they don't need too many colors - like Hike&Bike) or general (so they also don't need many colors - like GMaps). OSM Carto tries to be multi-specialized (general and specialized at the same time), so we need a lot of colors. And we have even to reuse them for different purposes.

For me, it's a totally weird idea. and I think we should sticle with classinc white-yellow-orange-red roads palette.

OSM defines many types of roads. Some of them are not popular enough yet and might be skipped for now (#1239), but main cadence is very popular, and every single type is important to be seen distinctively. Tertiary should be designed, not hacked, because we have too many white roads. Trying to cover more types in the same palette is also possible, but it will make them less recognizable. So with yellow-red you can basically try making the palette wider by adding something on the lower end (between yellow and white, but that didn't work) or something above red.

So it might be unusual, but perfectly valid and systematic approach.

I also find this a some regression beacause during last few years we was consequently dropping "screaming" colours, see: http://bl.ocks.org/matthijsmelissen/raw/7d2b0538a8b64b9d31e2/#14.00/51.4923/0.0425

  1. Dark violet is not screaming for me in any way. It's just highly saturated, but "weaker" than red roads for example.

  2. When thinking about strong/mild colors, it heavily depends on the type of geometry. We just added "screaming" orange for gastronomy, because it's used for nodes, which are small and would be lost otherwise (in fact, orange nodes sometimes are too light already - see #2848 (comment)). Lines can also be less visible (German fork is less shy about making them strong - see https://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ), so the only real danger comes from areas. They can easily dominate everything else. But even then, when some type of area is rare enough, it can be strong without harming the map (see #2339).

@matthijsmelissen

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commented Nov 30, 2018

I'm actually quite happy with the tertiary roads as they are. I'm not sure if expanding the colour palette for roads will actually cause a more readable map.

@kocio-pl

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commented Nov 30, 2018

I understand that you are happy with current rendering, because I'm also happy with most of it, but do you think that yellow tertiary instead of white will be less readable (and not more readable)?

@matthijsmelissen

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commented Nov 30, 2018

The issue is not about making yellow tertiary, it is about adding an extra color to the palette that will make it less readable.

@kocio-pl

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commented Nov 30, 2018

Of course there is more than just this (but also about it), but I still don't get what exactly will make it less readable in your opinion (I guess you don't claim that it will be equally readable as currently)?

@jeisenbe

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commented Dec 15, 2018

I was initially unhappy about this idea, but I now believe it is a good idea. I've been working on improving the highway=construction rendering, and I've seen that the current secondary color is not easily visible without a casing.

By changing secondary highways to use light orange they will be more visible at mid and low zoom levels, including when rendered as a thin line as highway=construction & construction=secondary at z13.

This will also make it possible to render secondary highways with a light orange line at z9 and z10, which will make them more visible and also make it possible to lighten the color of railways at z8 and z9, as proposed in #3538 "Clean up z8-10".

Tertiary could then use yellow, so it could be rendered slightly narrower than primary highways at higher zoom levels. The yellow color would also distinguish tertiary_link roads from residential and minor highways, even if we make tertiary_link narrower, as planned in #3570

The main disadvantage is that it will add another road color. We already have 4 main road colors plus white for minor roads (and gray for pedestrian areas). I don't see a great deal of harm in going from 4 to 5 colors.

@polarbearing

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commented Dec 15, 2018

Improving highway=construction rendering is fine, however it should not imply a change of the whole road palette.

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