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New road style - rework road colours, road widths and display of railway=rail #1736

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merged 38 commits into from Sep 17, 2015

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matkoniecz commented Aug 11, 2015

Currently used road style has some problems, one the most obvious one is that secondary and trunk colour too similar to landuse colours (#102).

But there are also other serious problems with basing design on UK road style.

Marking different road types by colours in completely different hues works well for maps displaying primarily roads, with limited different styles for other features. This map differentiates wide range of landovers, POIs, borders and names. It is using more different styles than most maps. For example picture below presents road types on some of landcovers displayed in this style.

In this situation colours of many road types are closer to other features than to other road types (forest - trunk, motorway - river, tertiary - sand etc). That is not happening for example on Ordnance Survey map where number of differently displayed features is strictly limited.

selection_001 2
selection_003

Also, UK colour style is not universally known. For many people hierarchy of red, blue and green roads is not obvious.

This new road style is using narrower range of hues, making road of different classes more similar what should eliminate possibility of confusing them with other features and makes easier to avoid collisions on changing rendering of other elements. Steady progression of hue and lightness for major road types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary) should make more intuitive which roads are more important.

Road colours were also tuned to ensure that roads are well visible on all landcovers.

Roads are now narrower, to improve map readability and make it prettier. Also, more road types are differentiated by width rather than by colour (white, wide tertiary).

Railways are now more prominent and service tag for railways has bigger impact on rendering.

Color of pedestrian and living_street is now more logical and intuitive, without making map uglier.

Fixes #102 (secondary and trunk colour too similar to landuse colours)


Fixes #631 (tertiary roads more dominant than secondary on z10)

Fixes #1272 (junction=motorway_junction names are hard to read)

Fixes #319 (motorways on low zoom levels are very hard to notice and look like rivers)
world z 6 7 _ master -_ gsoc 53 357 -6 416 6 7 master - gsoc 200px

Fixes #914 (motorway tunnels are nearly invisible on z13 and lower)

Fixes #1124 (make road-casing stronger)

Fixes #1769 (improve living street rendering)

Reduces impact of #286 (some streets that are not joining may on zoom out misleadingly appear to be joining)

Before using version containing changes from this PR on OSM website it is recommended to change map key for Default map layer.

Among potential problems are that it is now harder to recognise road type of given road, especially in situation where there is no possibility to compare it with other road types.

Such significant change will be confusing for current users of this style.

UK color coding of roads is well known for many people, for them a new style - even assuming that it would be intuitive for them - will be less useful.

matkoniecz added some commits Jul 20, 2015

make railway=rail and roads more distinguishable. increase rail visib…
…ility

rail is now narrower, darker line on low zoom levels
increase visibility of railway=construction, decrease visibility of railway=disused
new tunnels for railway=rail - more visible, nicer and cosistent with other railway tunnels
New road style - rework road colours, road widths and display of rail…
…way=rail

Currently used road style has some problems, one the most obvious one is that econdary and trunk color too similar to landuse colors (#102).

But there are also other serious problems with basing design on UK road style.

Marking different road types by colours in completely different hues works well for maps displaying primarily roads, with limited different styles for other features. This map differentiates wide range of landovers, POIs, borders and names. It is using more different styles than most maps. For example picture below presents road types on some of landcovers displayed in this style.

In this situation colours of many road types are closer to other features than to other road types (forest - trunk, motorway - river, tertiary - sand etc). That is not happening for example on Ordnance Survey map where number of differently displayed features is strictly limited.

Also, UK color style is not universally known. For many people hierarchy of red, blue and green roads is not obvious.

This new road style is using narrower range of hues, making road of different classes more similar what should eliminate possibility of confusing them with other features and makes easier to avoid collisions on changing rendering of other elements. Steady progression of hue and lightness for major road types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary) should make more intuitive which roads are more important.

Road colors were also tuned to ensure that roads are well visible on all landcovers.

Roads are now narrower, to improve map readablity and make it prettier. Also, more road types are differentiated by width rather than by color (white, wide tertiary).

Railways are now more prominent and service tag for railways has bigger impact on rendering.

Color of pedestrian and living_street is now more logical and intuitive, without making map uglier.

Fixes #102 (secondary and trunk color too similar to landuse colors)
Fixes #631 (tertiary roads more dominant than secondary on z10)
Fixes #1272 (junction=motorway_junction names are hard to read)
Fixes #319 (motorways on low zoom levels are very hard to notice and look like rivers)
Fixes #914 (motorway tunnels are nearly invisible on z13 and lower)
Fixes #1124 (make road-casing stronger)
Reduces impact of #286 (some streets that are not joining may on zoom out misleadingly appear to be joining)
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imagico Aug 11, 2015

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Nice.

A few remarks:

  • you mentioned highway=pedestrian/living_street but did not show an example - what colors did you ultimately choose here?
  • the oneway arrows in black are not so good i think. There are a number of shapes in black, in particular barrier/gate icons (which represent physical features) and labels that occur frequently at/on roads and having oneway arrows in the same color can cause confusion.
  • highway=service is very thin, it is in many cases probably thinner than in reality at z=17+, likely in all cases (i.e. even at the equator) at z=18+. Or in other words: the width ratio between highway=service and major roads in your z17-19 examples is much larger than what is necessary for properly identifying different road types.
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imagico commented Aug 11, 2015

Nice.

A few remarks:

  • you mentioned highway=pedestrian/living_street but did not show an example - what colors did you ultimately choose here?
  • the oneway arrows in black are not so good i think. There are a number of shapes in black, in particular barrier/gate icons (which represent physical features) and labels that occur frequently at/on roads and having oneway arrows in the same color can cause confusion.
  • highway=service is very thin, it is in many cases probably thinner than in reality at z=17+, likely in all cases (i.e. even at the equator) at z=18+. Or in other words: the width ratio between highway=service and major roads in your z17-19 examples is much larger than what is necessary for properly identifying different road types.
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matkoniecz Aug 11, 2015

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highway=pedestrian/living_stree

Additional examples are in general generated, here some already ready pedestrian, with some living street.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202545/b17472a2-4052-11e5-85c9-ae8b94c74337.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202542/b16b8f70-4052-11e5-8945-d2ba432de2e9.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202543/b172a198-4052-11e5-9d45-2280785eb3aa.png

the oneway arrows in black are not so good i think.

To be more exact it is rather dark gray (#404040). I tested lighter gray and variants of blue, but it was not so great. I may try again with slightly lighter gray.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 11, 2015

highway=pedestrian/living_stree

Additional examples are in general generated, here some already ready pedestrian, with some living street.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202545/b17472a2-4052-11e5-85c9-ae8b94c74337.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202542/b16b8f70-4052-11e5-8945-d2ba432de2e9.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202543/b172a198-4052-11e5-9d45-2280785eb3aa.png

the oneway arrows in black are not so good i think.

To be more exact it is rather dark gray (#404040). I tested lighter gray and variants of blue, but it was not so great. I may try again with slightly lighter gray.

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mboeringa Aug 11, 2015

Roads are now narrower, to improve map readability and make it prettier. Also, more road types are differentiated by width rather than by colour (white, wide tertiary).

That is definitely an improvement, and I think you have even been really conservative with those road width changes. No big style (think Google, Here) but openstreetmap-carto had this wide roads.

I do notice one anomaly: in the Z17/18/19 images, the small connecting road between the two sides of the primary road "Via Ciprio", named "Piazzale delle eroi" in the Z19 image, is actually wider in the new style?

Additional examples are in general generated, here some already ready pedestrian, with some living street.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202545/b17472a2-4052-11e5-85c9-ae8b94c74337.png

I am not to sure about the new "purple" color for this feature (that is how it looks on my calibrated monitor), I would stick with the original light grey, or at least make the color slightly lighter and less saturated.

mboeringa commented Aug 11, 2015

Roads are now narrower, to improve map readability and make it prettier. Also, more road types are differentiated by width rather than by colour (white, wide tertiary).

That is definitely an improvement, and I think you have even been really conservative with those road width changes. No big style (think Google, Here) but openstreetmap-carto had this wide roads.

I do notice one anomaly: in the Z17/18/19 images, the small connecting road between the two sides of the primary road "Via Ciprio", named "Piazzale delle eroi" in the Z19 image, is actually wider in the new style?

Additional examples are in general generated, here some already ready pedestrian, with some living street.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9202545/b17472a2-4052-11e5-85c9-ae8b94c74337.png

I am not to sure about the new "purple" color for this feature (that is how it looks on my calibrated monitor), I would stick with the original light grey, or at least make the color slightly lighter and less saturated.

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matkoniecz Aug 11, 2015

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is actually wider in the new style?

Yes, some roads on some zoom levels are wider. It primarily affects tertiary at high zoom levels that lost its colour.

would stick with the original light grey

I am also not happy - but the problems is that current living_street is both ugly and illogical. living street is clearly between normal roads and highway=pedestrian. Despite that highway=pedestrian is displayed in style between living_street and normal minor roads. See for example

selection_001

I consider change of pedestrian & living_street as change from illogical pedestrian and really ugly living_street to OK living_street and weird pedestrian. I tried to achieve better result and failed, but IMHO it is anyway an improvement.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 11, 2015

is actually wider in the new style?

Yes, some roads on some zoom levels are wider. It primarily affects tertiary at high zoom levels that lost its colour.

would stick with the original light grey

I am also not happy - but the problems is that current living_street is both ugly and illogical. living street is clearly between normal roads and highway=pedestrian. Despite that highway=pedestrian is displayed in style between living_street and normal minor roads. See for example

selection_001

I consider change of pedestrian & living_street as change from illogical pedestrian and really ugly living_street to OK living_street and weird pedestrian. I tried to achieve better result and failed, but IMHO it is anyway an improvement.

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sabas Aug 11, 2015

Fixes #1064 is that right?

sabas commented Aug 11, 2015

Fixes #1064 is that right?

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@sabas Unfortunately this bug is still present after this changes.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 11, 2015

@sabas Unfortunately this bug is still present after this changes.

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Stalfur Aug 11, 2015

I'm not happy with tertiary losing its color, it is a well defined type of road that we use extensively where its legal status is thus here in Iceland and making it vanish makes it harder to see the status of markings.

In Iceland we've been careful with using the designated status of roads to mark them as trunk (just one ring road), primary, secondary and tertiary. These changes will make the bottom most layer invisible for no obvious purpose. Do you have a render for this area according to your style? How much color (which carries legal and traffic related meaning) is drained by these changes?

Service road also becoming invisible is not a good idea in my mind.

AS for good things then current living street has been an ugly stepchild and any change there is to the better.

Stalfur commented Aug 11, 2015

I'm not happy with tertiary losing its color, it is a well defined type of road that we use extensively where its legal status is thus here in Iceland and making it vanish makes it harder to see the status of markings.

In Iceland we've been careful with using the designated status of roads to mark them as trunk (just one ring road), primary, secondary and tertiary. These changes will make the bottom most layer invisible for no obvious purpose. Do you have a render for this area according to your style? How much color (which carries legal and traffic related meaning) is drained by these changes?

Service road also becoming invisible is not a good idea in my mind.

AS for good things then current living street has been an ugly stepchild and any change there is to the better.

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Reykjavik (are you interested also in other zoom levels?)

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209076/163e17f2-4075-11e5-8024-ee02e5e1e427.png

Displaying highway=service, service=*

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209121/3b0c3a82-4075-11e5-8cb8-7ec833ed9254.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209120/3b0bd376-4075-11e5-8c5b-77c9f443c85d.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209122/3b108e16-4075-11e5-995b-81678fc93ed5.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209123/3b153d80-4075-11e5-82c9-cf72165f3dfc.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209124/3b185646-4075-11e5-8dcd-f04b69abc1a6.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209125/3b1b7b0a-4075-11e5-8772-b55d2cb9c3ae.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209126/3b21b902-4075-11e5-9f79-e52454c49f68.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209130/3e6f18ca-4075-11e5-8375-4ce6a7940c22.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209132/437c7330-4075-11e5-90e7-4f23d6ddc02a.png

living street, full set of images
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209169/754fc8b2-4075-11e5-8936-2694ba91cd81.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209170/75561dfc-4075-11e5-88a7-758006199218.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209171/7557cfe4-4075-11e5-83b7-99c6ea8fda31.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209172/75597f6a-4075-11e5-8241-0d2e94bb255b.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209174/757ce108-4075-11e5-9f3f-27bbd0bef5fe.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209173/757a7558-4075-11e5-88a9-350be63920ab.png

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matkoniecz commented Aug 11, 2015

Reykjavik (are you interested also in other zoom levels?)

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209076/163e17f2-4075-11e5-8024-ee02e5e1e427.png

Displaying highway=service, service=*

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209121/3b0c3a82-4075-11e5-8cb8-7ec833ed9254.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209120/3b0bd376-4075-11e5-8c5b-77c9f443c85d.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209122/3b108e16-4075-11e5-995b-81678fc93ed5.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209123/3b153d80-4075-11e5-82c9-cf72165f3dfc.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209124/3b185646-4075-11e5-8dcd-f04b69abc1a6.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209125/3b1b7b0a-4075-11e5-8772-b55d2cb9c3ae.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209126/3b21b902-4075-11e5-9f79-e52454c49f68.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209130/3e6f18ca-4075-11e5-8375-4ce6a7940c22.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209132/437c7330-4075-11e5-90e7-4f23d6ddc02a.png

living street, full set of images
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209169/754fc8b2-4075-11e5-8936-2694ba91cd81.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209170/75561dfc-4075-11e5-88a7-758006199218.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209171/7557cfe4-4075-11e5-83b7-99c6ea8fda31.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209172/75597f6a-4075-11e5-8241-0d2e94bb255b.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209174/757ce108-4075-11e5-9f3f-27bbd0bef5fe.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9209173/757a7558-4075-11e5-88a9-350be63920ab.png

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Your new samples for highway=service look much better.

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imagico commented Aug 11, 2015

Your new samples for highway=service look much better.

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ximex Aug 11, 2015

Maybe the style from openstreetbrowser.org could help with new ideas how to solve the "problem" that tertiary isn't good visible.

in OSB tertiary is a very bright yellow. or maybe take the same color as secondary but thinner and later in color and in low levels only in grey like yet.

BTW: Great job! 👍

ximex commented Aug 11, 2015

Maybe the style from openstreetbrowser.org could help with new ideas how to solve the "problem" that tertiary isn't good visible.

in OSB tertiary is a very bright yellow. or maybe take the same color as secondary but thinner and later in color and in low levels only in grey like yet.

BTW: Great job! 👍

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Stalfur Aug 11, 2015

@matkoniecz I like the highway=service fix. Thanks for the Reykjavík area snapshot.
@ximex I like the OSB example there, another method is used by ja.is where the tertiary roads are narrower but same color as secondary.

A more pastel version of current tertiary for tertiary like in OSB would be something I would be in favor of.

Stalfur commented Aug 11, 2015

@matkoniecz I like the highway=service fix. Thanks for the Reykjavík area snapshot.
@ximex I like the OSB example there, another method is used by ja.is where the tertiary roads are narrower but same color as secondary.

A more pastel version of current tertiary for tertiary like in OSB would be something I would be in favor of.

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Great work!

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sommerluk commented Aug 11, 2015

Great work!

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matthijsmelissen Aug 11, 2015

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Thanks for creating the PR!

I tested the new style on Luxembourg, and I don't see major problems. A couple of minor suggestions:

  • I'm also not sure about removing the colour from tertiary. I think keeping it coloured would make navigating easier. For me, the colour helps a lot in ease of reading the map. I'm not sure if a colour is possible together with the other changes, though.
  • Living street is probably too close to land colour, but this is not something we can fix easily now, and the new style is much better than the previous one.
  • Don't forget to change 'residential is rendered from z10 and is not included in osm_planet_roads' in the comments of roads.mss to 'unclassified'.
  • It seems you render highway=road now the same as highway=service. I'm fine with that choice.
  • I think tertiary stands out too much on z12, maybe make it narrower, darker, or add some casing?
  • I still think primary casing on z12 and z14 is slightly too strong (thick). Same for secondary casing on z13 and z14.
  • I also think the narrowing of the roads means that it requires more effort to read the letters.
    Would giving the labels a white semi-transparant halo help?

What is preferable? Large images or smaller ones next to each other (like in the previous entry)? Or maybe big pictures next to each other - but available as links and not inlined (like many in this older entry)?

I prefer the images next to each other.

  • I prefer the blue arrows. The blob here is really illegible in one colour. Did you have a look at the other arrow-related issues (no problem if you have had no time for that)?
  • The access dashes are too wide for the service=parking_aisle.
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matthijsmelissen commented Aug 11, 2015

Thanks for creating the PR!

I tested the new style on Luxembourg, and I don't see major problems. A couple of minor suggestions:

  • I'm also not sure about removing the colour from tertiary. I think keeping it coloured would make navigating easier. For me, the colour helps a lot in ease of reading the map. I'm not sure if a colour is possible together with the other changes, though.
  • Living street is probably too close to land colour, but this is not something we can fix easily now, and the new style is much better than the previous one.
  • Don't forget to change 'residential is rendered from z10 and is not included in osm_planet_roads' in the comments of roads.mss to 'unclassified'.
  • It seems you render highway=road now the same as highway=service. I'm fine with that choice.
  • I think tertiary stands out too much on z12, maybe make it narrower, darker, or add some casing?
  • I still think primary casing on z12 and z14 is slightly too strong (thick). Same for secondary casing on z13 and z14.
  • I also think the narrowing of the roads means that it requires more effort to read the letters.
    Would giving the labels a white semi-transparant halo help?

What is preferable? Large images or smaller ones next to each other (like in the previous entry)? Or maybe big pictures next to each other - but available as links and not inlined (like many in this older entry)?

I prefer the images next to each other.

  • I prefer the blue arrows. The blob here is really illegible in one colour. Did you have a look at the other arrow-related issues (no problem if you have had no time for that)?
  • The access dashes are too wide for the service=parking_aisle.
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mboeringa Aug 12, 2015

I prefer the blue arrows. The blob here is really illegible in one colour. Did you have a look at the other arrow-related issues (no problem if you have had no time for that)?

Regardless of preference for color, the blob there is mainly illegible because of the unfortunate coincidence of the oneway arrows and the lift-gate symbol at Z17...

mboeringa commented Aug 12, 2015

I prefer the blue arrows. The blob here is really illegible in one colour. Did you have a look at the other arrow-related issues (no problem if you have had no time for that)?

Regardless of preference for color, the blob there is mainly illegible because of the unfortunate coincidence of the oneway arrows and the lift-gate symbol at Z17...

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Congrats, great work! This is a major improvement, colours are well chosen and I especially like the narrower roads. I had a look within Austria and this is what I noticed:

  • I don't think rendering casings on z11 works well.
  • I'm ok with the black one-way arrows, but one idea could also be to display them in the hue of the road they are on (for white use casing colour) and have suitable contrast (as dark or a little bit darker as the casing maybe).
  • Removing the yellow from tertiary takes a bit away from its visual impact, but I think that is ok, it is something to get used to. The larger width makes it stand out sufficiently IMO.
  • The darker railways is also something to get used to, an improvement is the stronger differentiation between sidings and main lines, maybe railways could be a little bit less dark? Darker lines work well on lower zooms though.
  • As others have said service is too thin, especially parking aisle (if that is thinner?).
  • living street is an improvement, I'm not sure about the new pedestrian colour. Definitely difficult to find something suitable here, but for me it looks a bit too blueish, maybe desaturate a bit more.
  • The biggest issue that I have seen is that the new primary colour does not work so well on forests at lower zooms. Example (area south west of Vienna, z10):

primary_forest

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nebulon42 commented Aug 12, 2015

Congrats, great work! This is a major improvement, colours are well chosen and I especially like the narrower roads. I had a look within Austria and this is what I noticed:

  • I don't think rendering casings on z11 works well.
  • I'm ok with the black one-way arrows, but one idea could also be to display them in the hue of the road they are on (for white use casing colour) and have suitable contrast (as dark or a little bit darker as the casing maybe).
  • Removing the yellow from tertiary takes a bit away from its visual impact, but I think that is ok, it is something to get used to. The larger width makes it stand out sufficiently IMO.
  • The darker railways is also something to get used to, an improvement is the stronger differentiation between sidings and main lines, maybe railways could be a little bit less dark? Darker lines work well on lower zooms though.
  • As others have said service is too thin, especially parking aisle (if that is thinner?).
  • living street is an improvement, I'm not sure about the new pedestrian colour. Definitely difficult to find something suitable here, but for me it looks a bit too blueish, maybe desaturate a bit more.
  • The biggest issue that I have seen is that the new primary colour does not work so well on forests at lower zooms. Example (area south west of Vienna, z10):

primary_forest

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@math1985 Thanks for the feedback!

I'm also not sure about removing the colour from tertiary. I think keeping it coloured would make navigating easier. For me, the colour helps a lot in ease of reading the map. I'm not sure if a colour is possible together with the other changes, though.

Yes, one of benefits of white tertiary is that it makes possible to have larger color differences between secondary, primary, trunk and motorway. In initial version it was solved by unifying trunk and motorway but nobody liked this. I also thought about unifying seondary and primary - but I expect that there would be a similar reaction.

Also, "draining colour" is one of intended effects.

Living street is probably too close to land colour, but this is not something we can fix easily now, and the new style is much better than the previous one.

Yes - I am not considering it as great but at least it is no longer terrible.

Don't forget to change 'residential is rendered from z10 and is not included in osm_planet_roads' in the comments of roads.mss to 'unclassified'.

I opened #1738 as it affects also current version and it would merge cleanly.

It seems you render highway=road now the same as highway=service. I'm fine with that choice.

I am not too happy about this (see #1698) - but it may be easily changed separately. For this PR I focused on changes that may not be done independently (really popular road types).

I think tertiary stands out too much on z12, maybe make it narrower, darker, or add some casing?

In that case I will wait for more opinion as people already complained that it is not visible enough. In case of changing its visibility - manipulating width is probably the best idea.

I still think primary casing on z12 and z14 is slightly too strong (thick). Same for secondary casing on z13 and z14.

I will look at this again.

I also think the narrowing of the roads means that it requires more effort to read the letters. Would giving the labels a white semi-transparant halo help?

AFAIK road names already have halos. Are you proposing to make it stronger? Or is it not true for all road types.

I prefer the images next to each other.

I will switch to smaller images fitting next to each other (for nearest update there are already many images generated, so it is too late to chnage that but for next one I will do it)

The access dashes are too wide for the service=parking_aisle.

For now it is consistent with dashes on footways and paths. Maybe narrowing for all three would be a good idea.

The blob here is really illegible in one colour.

For me it is ineligible in both cases.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

@math1985 Thanks for the feedback!

I'm also not sure about removing the colour from tertiary. I think keeping it coloured would make navigating easier. For me, the colour helps a lot in ease of reading the map. I'm not sure if a colour is possible together with the other changes, though.

Yes, one of benefits of white tertiary is that it makes possible to have larger color differences between secondary, primary, trunk and motorway. In initial version it was solved by unifying trunk and motorway but nobody liked this. I also thought about unifying seondary and primary - but I expect that there would be a similar reaction.

Also, "draining colour" is one of intended effects.

Living street is probably too close to land colour, but this is not something we can fix easily now, and the new style is much better than the previous one.

Yes - I am not considering it as great but at least it is no longer terrible.

Don't forget to change 'residential is rendered from z10 and is not included in osm_planet_roads' in the comments of roads.mss to 'unclassified'.

I opened #1738 as it affects also current version and it would merge cleanly.

It seems you render highway=road now the same as highway=service. I'm fine with that choice.

I am not too happy about this (see #1698) - but it may be easily changed separately. For this PR I focused on changes that may not be done independently (really popular road types).

I think tertiary stands out too much on z12, maybe make it narrower, darker, or add some casing?

In that case I will wait for more opinion as people already complained that it is not visible enough. In case of changing its visibility - manipulating width is probably the best idea.

I still think primary casing on z12 and z14 is slightly too strong (thick). Same for secondary casing on z13 and z14.

I will look at this again.

I also think the narrowing of the roads means that it requires more effort to read the letters. Would giving the labels a white semi-transparant halo help?

AFAIK road names already have halos. Are you proposing to make it stronger? Or is it not true for all road types.

I prefer the images next to each other.

I will switch to smaller images fitting next to each other (for nearest update there are already many images generated, so it is too late to chnage that but for next one I will do it)

The access dashes are too wide for the service=parking_aisle.

For now it is consistent with dashes on footways and paths. Maybe narrowing for all three would be a good idea.

The blob here is really illegible in one colour.

For me it is ineligible in both cases.

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Also, thanks @imagico for the idea with blueish gray for highway=pedestrian! In the end it turned out to be better than alternatives that were ranging from "really ugly" to "terrible, run away".

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

Also, thanks @imagico for the idea with blueish gray for highway=pedestrian! In the end it turned out to be better than alternatives that were ranging from "really ugly" to "terrible, run away".

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Or is it not true for all road types.

If i remember correctly, road labels for white roads had no halo so far.

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matthijsmelissen commented Aug 12, 2015

Or is it not true for all road types.

If i remember correctly, road labels for white roads had no halo so far.

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If i remember correctly, road labels for white roads had no halo so far.

OK, I will check this.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

If i remember correctly, road labels for white roads had no halo so far.

OK, I will check this.

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@nebulon42 Thanks for the feedback!

I don't think rendering casings on z11 works well.

z11 is not well liked. Maybe making it again casingless is a proper solution.

I'm ok with the black one-way arrows, but one idea could also be to display them in the hue of the road they are on (for white use casing colour) and have suitable contrast (as dark or a little bit darker as the casing maybe).

An interesting idea, I will try to play with it.

Removing the yellow from tertiary takes a bit away from its visual impact, but I think that is ok, it is something to get used to. The larger width makes it stand out sufficiently IMO.

Nice to see that somebody likes it :)

The darker railways is also something to get used to, an improvement is the stronger differentiation between sidings and main lines, maybe railways could be a little bit less dark? Darker lines work well on lower zooms though.

I am a bit worried that dark on low zoom and less dark on high zooms may make it less intuitive. Also, "something to get used to" may be true - initially it was less dark, later I changed it to make more dark.

As others have said service is too thin, especially parking aisle (if that is thinner?).

Have you tried the new, updated version?

living street is an improvement, I'm not sure about the new pedestrian colour. Definitely difficult to find something suitable here, but for me it looks a bit too blueish, maybe desaturate a bit more.

Problem with desaturating is that it gets too close to residential (I amy publish inages from test where I rejected making it less blue).

The biggest issue that I have seen is that the new primary colour does not work so well on forests at lower zooms. Example (area south west of Vienna, z10):

For me this picture is OK - yes, this roads are not too visible but are also not so important. But maybe halo would be a good solution to keep visibility on dark background?

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

@nebulon42 Thanks for the feedback!

I don't think rendering casings on z11 works well.

z11 is not well liked. Maybe making it again casingless is a proper solution.

I'm ok with the black one-way arrows, but one idea could also be to display them in the hue of the road they are on (for white use casing colour) and have suitable contrast (as dark or a little bit darker as the casing maybe).

An interesting idea, I will try to play with it.

Removing the yellow from tertiary takes a bit away from its visual impact, but I think that is ok, it is something to get used to. The larger width makes it stand out sufficiently IMO.

Nice to see that somebody likes it :)

The darker railways is also something to get used to, an improvement is the stronger differentiation between sidings and main lines, maybe railways could be a little bit less dark? Darker lines work well on lower zooms though.

I am a bit worried that dark on low zoom and less dark on high zooms may make it less intuitive. Also, "something to get used to" may be true - initially it was less dark, later I changed it to make more dark.

As others have said service is too thin, especially parking aisle (if that is thinner?).

Have you tried the new, updated version?

living street is an improvement, I'm not sure about the new pedestrian colour. Definitely difficult to find something suitable here, but for me it looks a bit too blueish, maybe desaturate a bit more.

Problem with desaturating is that it gets too close to residential (I amy publish inages from test where I rejected making it less blue).

The biggest issue that I have seen is that the new primary colour does not work so well on forests at lower zooms. Example (area south west of Vienna, z10):

For me this picture is OK - yes, this roads are not too visible but are also not so important. But maybe halo would be a good solution to keep visibility on dark background?

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@math1985 All road labels have halo since https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1010/files and in 52caf88 halos were made transparent.

Can you give example of places that would deserve larger halo? It may be result of different letters and I failed to notice problem during testing as name was unreadable anyway due to unfamiliar language and letters.

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

@math1985 All road labels have halo since https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1010/files and in 52caf88 halos were made transparent.

Can you give example of places that would deserve larger halo? It may be result of different letters and I failed to notice problem during testing as name was unreadable anyway due to unfamiliar language and letters.

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jojo4u Aug 12, 2015

The split between secondary (yellow) and tertiary (now white) is a bit arbitrary and justified by a restricted colorspace and not importance of the road. The former split between tertiary and unclassified/residential was better suited.
In my mind the groups of highways are: long-distance (motorway/trunk/primary), connection (secondary/tertiary/unclassified), local access (unclassified/residential/service). But I can't think of a better solution for tertiary. The very pale yellow from the first iteration and also on openstreetbrowser.org just does not cut it.

jojo4u commented Aug 12, 2015

The split between secondary (yellow) and tertiary (now white) is a bit arbitrary and justified by a restricted colorspace and not importance of the road. The former split between tertiary and unclassified/residential was better suited.
In my mind the groups of highways are: long-distance (motorway/trunk/primary), connection (secondary/tertiary/unclassified), local access (unclassified/residential/service). But I can't think of a better solution for tertiary. The very pale yellow from the first iteration and also on openstreetbrowser.org just does not cut it.

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The idea for the blue tone for pedestrian areas by the way came from the fact that a slightly reddish blue is about the only bright hue not yet taken by any area colors at the moment, see:

area colors

Since roads are going to be red-yellow it might make sense to consider 'rotating' the urban land covers more towards blue so a reddish tone is free for the pedestrian areas. however within the road color range this would be closest to motorway which is also kind of strange. Another possibility to swap colors would be with education/hospital - that would be a very good tone for pedestrian areas i think but i am not sure how blue would work for those. And such color swaps would of course be confusing for long term map users.

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imagico commented Aug 12, 2015

The idea for the blue tone for pedestrian areas by the way came from the fact that a slightly reddish blue is about the only bright hue not yet taken by any area colors at the moment, see:

area colors

Since roads are going to be red-yellow it might make sense to consider 'rotating' the urban land covers more towards blue so a reddish tone is free for the pedestrian areas. however within the road color range this would be closest to motorway which is also kind of strange. Another possibility to swap colors would be with education/hospital - that would be a very good tone for pedestrian areas i think but i am not sure how blue would work for those. And such color swaps would of course be confusing for long term map users.

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I agree that secondaries on z14 may have smaller casing and I made change that should fix this problem.

This should be now eliminated. New previews for secondaries.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226473/2632e594-410f-11e5-804a-a54066d2c3b0.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226469/261e890a-410f-11e5-8a70-5a12ce800bb1.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226470/261f3a26-410f-11e5-82df-110bc60696f2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226471/261fddbe-410f-11e5-9068-5001ec1732b9.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226472/262048ee-410f-11e5-8c2d-56fd0229ae01.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226468/261c9960-410f-11e5-8fd6-9e753010c474.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226475/263a59b4-410f-11e5-94fe-2fc949503ee4.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226478/2640c876-410f-11e5-9cd1-cc3de5b7a1f7.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226476/263cc1f4-410f-11e5-8f6d-bd60a03feae0.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226474/26384ade-410f-11e5-9ea6-7c5ec1f5b7d2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226477/263d1bc2-410f-11e5-9729-4d7448bc7fc2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226479/264fc6fa-410f-11e5-9780-bf6abb6e0a27.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226480/2652ca9e-410f-11e5-8829-d9b67efb5b2c.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226481/2653d6e6-410f-11e5-97e6-932bcaa12107.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226482/2653e9d8-410f-11e5-8a0a-283d24f3766a.png

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matkoniecz commented Aug 12, 2015

I agree that secondaries on z14 may have smaller casing and I made change that should fix this problem.

This should be now eliminated. New previews for secondaries.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226473/2632e594-410f-11e5-804a-a54066d2c3b0.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226469/261e890a-410f-11e5-8a70-5a12ce800bb1.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226470/261f3a26-410f-11e5-82df-110bc60696f2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226471/261fddbe-410f-11e5-9068-5001ec1732b9.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226472/262048ee-410f-11e5-8c2d-56fd0229ae01.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226468/261c9960-410f-11e5-8fd6-9e753010c474.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226475/263a59b4-410f-11e5-94fe-2fc949503ee4.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226478/2640c876-410f-11e5-9cd1-cc3de5b7a1f7.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226476/263cc1f4-410f-11e5-8f6d-bd60a03feae0.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226474/26384ade-410f-11e5-9ea6-7c5ec1f5b7d2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226477/263d1bc2-410f-11e5-9729-4d7448bc7fc2.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226479/264fc6fa-410f-11e5-9780-bf6abb6e0a27.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226480/2652ca9e-410f-11e5-8829-d9b67efb5b2c.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226481/2653d6e6-410f-11e5-97e6-932bcaa12107.png
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9226482/2653e9d8-410f-11e5-8a0a-283d24f3766a.png

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daganzdaanda Sep 13, 2015

Thank you @rrzefox and @pnorman for the previews!
I really like the overall result, the map looks sharper and gives more usable info in nearly all situations. Very good work!

About the white tertiaries: I think they do stand out more than the current yellow ones, because of the width and because white gives more contrast than yellow to landuse colours. But I also did not find the pale yellow version terrible.
@Stalfur I see your problem, but I believe it is not impossible to work with the suggested changes. The one thing you could do to check whether a road is tertiary: zoom out to z12. If the road is still white with a casing, it is a tertiary.

In my opinion, the changes are overwhelmingly positive. We should merge and release this, and then work out any kinks that may become obvious only later.

daganzdaanda commented Sep 13, 2015

Thank you @rrzefox and @pnorman for the previews!
I really like the overall result, the map looks sharper and gives more usable info in nearly all situations. Very good work!

About the white tertiaries: I think they do stand out more than the current yellow ones, because of the width and because white gives more contrast than yellow to landuse colours. But I also did not find the pale yellow version terrible.
@Stalfur I see your problem, but I believe it is not impossible to work with the suggested changes. The one thing you could do to check whether a road is tertiary: zoom out to z12. If the road is still white with a casing, it is a tertiary.

In my opinion, the changes are overwhelmingly positive. We should merge and release this, and then work out any kinks that may become obvious only later.

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Perhaps we should regenerate the main five key images for the osm homepage, too.
This could be done by hand, but is very helpful after the change.

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HolgerJeromin commented Sep 13, 2015

Perhaps we should regenerate the main five key images for the osm homepage, too.
This could be done by hand, but is very helpful after the change.

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@HolgerJeromin Yes, we know about that. It would be preferable to coordinate change also with iD - see openstreetmap/iD#2764

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matkoniecz commented Sep 13, 2015

@HolgerJeromin Yes, we know about that. It would be preferable to coordinate change also with iD - see openstreetmap/iD#2764

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The problem of that is it would introduce a very ugly border where at certain place rendering would change. I think that #1290 is a better idea ("Variable width line features at high zooms").

I did not mean this as a specific suggestion, just as an observation that the rendering is currently (and at z13 also with this change) off by about one zoom level from optimum in these areas. I fully agree that scale dependent styling (in contrast to zoom level dependent styling) will only work for continuously changeable properties like line widths and not for fundamental changes like the minor roads from z12 to z13.

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imagico commented Sep 15, 2015

The problem of that is it would introduce a very ugly border where at certain place rendering would change. I think that #1290 is a better idea ("Variable width line features at high zooms").

I did not mean this as a specific suggestion, just as an observation that the rendering is currently (and at z13 also with this change) off by about one zoom level from optimum in these areas. I fully agree that scale dependent styling (in contrast to zoom level dependent styling) will only work for continuously changeable properties like line widths and not for fundamental changes like the minor roads from z12 to z13.

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Merging, after discussions with Andy.

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pnorman commented Sep 17, 2015

Merging, after discussions with Andy.

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+1

Thanks @matkoniecz!

When are we going to release this?

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matthijsmelissen commented Sep 17, 2015

+1

Thanks @matkoniecz!

When are we going to release this?

pnorman added a commit that referenced this pull request Sep 17, 2015

Merge pull request #1736 from matkoniecz/gsoc
New road style - rework road colours, road widths and display of railway=rail

@pnorman pnorman merged commit ad285ad into gravitystorm:master Sep 17, 2015

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Thanks to everybody for help, testing, ideas to improve code, ideas for better styling and feedback!

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matkoniecz commented Sep 17, 2015

Thanks to everybody for help, testing, ideas to improve code, ideas for better styling and feedback!

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Good to see this merged, thanks Mateusz for your great work.

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nebulon42 commented Sep 17, 2015

Good to see this merged, thanks Mateusz for your great work.

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Wow! Congratulations!

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Zverik commented Sep 17, 2015

Wow! Congratulations!

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can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

ximex commented Sep 17, 2015

can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

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can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

There is no ETA on the next release. We want to have a chance to uncover any new bugs first. Historically, releases have been every 1-2 months.

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pnorman commented Sep 17, 2015

can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

There is no ETA on the next release. We want to have a chance to uncover any new bugs first. Historically, releases have been every 1-2 months.

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can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

The nearest planned release is v2.35.0 that will not include this change ( openstreetmap/chef#36 ).

It means that it will be necessary to wait for the new roads on the main page - what is intentional. It gives time to update legend on the OSM website, there will be time to implement openstreetmap/iD#2764 and additional time to find bugs that were missed, some people may propose their own PRs tweaking the new style etc.

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matkoniecz commented Sep 17, 2015

can't wait to see the changes on the map. when is the next release planed?

The nearest planned release is v2.35.0 that will not include this change ( openstreetmap/chef#36 ).

It means that it will be necessary to wait for the new roads on the main page - what is intentional. It gives time to update legend on the OSM website, there will be time to implement openstreetmap/iD#2764 and additional time to find bugs that were missed, some people may propose their own PRs tweaking the new style etc.

@nebulon42 nebulon42 referenced this pull request Sep 17, 2015

Merged

rework oneway arrows #1840

AndrewHain added a commit to AndrewHain/openstreetmap-website that referenced this pull request Oct 21, 2015

New road colours and simplify text in key
Update colours for main roads to match
gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto#1736 and replace the OSM keywords
trunk, primary and secondary (which have different meanings from OSM use
in some places) with a new keyword main_road (main road),

tomhughes added a commit to tomhughes/openstreetmap-website that referenced this pull request Oct 30, 2015

Squashed commit of the following:
commit 10a2a07
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sun Oct 25 20:15:31 2015 +0000

    Correct location of main_road

    Correct location of main_road, it lives under key

commit e4aee8f
Merge: bddfd09 91d2271
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sun Oct 25 20:12:57 2015 +0000

    Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/openstreetmap/master' into Roadicons

commit bddfd09
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 21 23:15:53 2015 +0100

    New road colours and simplify text in key

    Update colours for main roads to match
    gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto#1736 and replace the OSM keywords
    trunk, primary and secondary (which have different meanings from OSM use
    in some places) with a new keyword main_road (main road),

commit 671028e
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 14 22:53:09 2015 +0100

    Change colours of icons for roads in the browser

    Change road icons in the data browser to be the same colours as the
    revised road colours in the standard map style. The top and bottom lines
    for motorway, trunk and primary are in the casing colours, secondary and
    tertiary are 50% intensity of casing colour. Tertiary is made deeper.

commit 2d187d8
Merge: 3932c6b 6078c3e
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 14 20:35:22 2015 +0100

    Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/openstreetmap/master'

tomhughes added a commit to tomhughes/openstreetmap-website that referenced this pull request Oct 31, 2015

Squashed commit of the following:
commit ffc6b75
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sat Oct 31 12:09:54 2015 +0000

    Make roads same width in key

commit 51efa77
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sat Oct 31 11:39:46 2015 +0000

    Add construction to key in revised colours

commit 10a2a07
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sun Oct 25 20:15:31 2015 +0000

    Correct location of main_road

    Correct location of main_road, it lives under key

commit e4aee8f
Merge: bddfd09 91d2271
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Sun Oct 25 20:12:57 2015 +0000

    Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/openstreetmap/master' into Roadicons

commit bddfd09
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 21 23:15:53 2015 +0100

    New road colours and simplify text in key

    Update colours for main roads to match
    gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto#1736 and replace the OSM keywords
    trunk, primary and secondary (which have different meanings from OSM use
    in some places) with a new keyword main_road (main road),

commit 671028e
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 14 22:53:09 2015 +0100

    Change colours of icons for roads in the browser

    Change road icons in the data browser to be the same colours as the
    revised road colours in the standard map style. The top and bottom lines
    for motorway, trunk and primary are in the casing colours, secondary and
    tertiary are 50% intensity of casing colour. Tertiary is made deeper.

commit 2d187d8
Merge: 3932c6b 6078c3e
Author: AndrewHain <andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk>
Date:   Wed Oct 14 20:35:22 2015 +0100

    Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/openstreetmap/master'
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matthijsmelissen Jul 26, 2016

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For anybody interested in road colours, it seems https://www.google.nl/maps also has rolled out new road colouring today.

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matthijsmelissen commented Jul 26, 2016

For anybody interested in road colours, it seems https://www.google.nl/maps also has rolled out new road colouring today.

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BalooUriza Jul 26, 2016

Did...did they just copy Mapbox's "Streets" style?

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Matthijs Melissen <notifications@github.com

wrote:

For anybody interested in road colours, it seems
https://www.google.nl/maps also has rolled out new road colouring today.


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BalooUriza commented Jul 26, 2016

Did...did they just copy Mapbox's "Streets" style?

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Matthijs Melissen <notifications@github.com

wrote:

For anybody interested in road colours, it seems
https://www.google.nl/maps also has rolled out new road colouring today.


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matthijsmelissen Aug 7, 2016

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@pnorman @gravitystorm @matkoniecz Google's blog on their new rendering: https://maps.googleblog.com/2016/07/discover-action-around-you-with-updated.html
In general, this might be an interesting blog to follow.

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matthijsmelissen commented Aug 7, 2016

@pnorman @gravitystorm @matkoniecz Google's blog on their new rendering: https://maps.googleblog.com/2016/07/discover-action-around-you-with-updated.html
In general, this might be an interesting blog to follow.

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The user reactions in the comments are familiar: :-)

"I couldn't agree more. Every change in the last 2 years has made maps worst."

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HolgerJeromin commented Aug 7, 2016

The user reactions in the comments are familiar: :-)

"I couldn't agree more. Every change in the last 2 years has made maps worst."

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dieterdreist Aug 7, 2016

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Il giorno 07 ago 2016, alle ore 14:48, Holger Jeromin notifications@github.com ha scritto:

"I couldn't agree more. Every change in the last 2 years has made maps worst."

actually I agree with that ,sorry for the OT, Gmaps has become worse in the past years, and slow.

dieterdreist commented Aug 7, 2016

sent from a phone

Il giorno 07 ago 2016, alle ore 14:48, Holger Jeromin notifications@github.com ha scritto:

"I couldn't agree more. Every change in the last 2 years has made maps worst."

actually I agree with that ,sorry for the OT, Gmaps has become worse in the past years, and slow.

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