diff --git a/xorp/pim/pim_vif.cc b/xorp/pim/pim_vif.cc
index 833337fcb..6b04eafca 100644
--- a/xorp/pim/pim_vif.cc
+++ b/xorp/pim/pim_vif.cc
@@ -152,6 +152,8 @@ PimVif::PimVif(PimNode* pim_node, const Vif& vif)
     
     set_default_config();
 
+    needs_join = false;
+
     // Check for any cached configuration.
     map<string, PVifPermInfo>::iterator i = perm_info.find(name());
     if (i != perm_info.end()) {
@@ -335,6 +337,8 @@ PimVif::pim_mrt() const
 /** System detected some change.  */
 void PimVif::notifyUpdated() {
     int perm_started = -1;
+    string err_msg;
+
     if (!wants_to_be_started) {
 	map<string, PVifPermInfo>::iterator i = perm_info.find(name());
 	if (i != perm_info.end()) {
@@ -345,7 +349,6 @@ void PimVif::notifyUpdated() {
     XLOG_INFO("notifyUpdated, vif: %s  wants-to-be-started: %i, perm-should-start: %i",
 	      name().c_str(), (int)(wants_to_be_started), perm_started);
     if (wants_to_be_started || (perm_started == 1)) {
-	string err_msg;
 	int rv = start(err_msg, "notifyUpdated, wants to be started");
 	if (rv == XORP_OK) {
 	    XLOG_WARNING("notifyUpdated, successfully started pim_vif: %s",
@@ -356,8 +359,31 @@ void PimVif::notifyUpdated() {
 			 name().c_str(), err_msg.c_str());
 	}
     }
+    else {
+	// Maybe we need to (re)join?
+	if (needs_join) {
+	    needs_join = false; // assume good things
+	    try_join(err_msg);
+	}
+    }
 }
 
+int PimVif::try_join(string& error_msg) {
+    // Join the appropriate multicast groups: ALL-PIM-ROUTERS
+    const IPvX group = IPvX::PIM_ROUTERS(family());
+    if (pim_node()->join_multicast_group(name(), name(),
+					 pim_node()->ip_protocol_number(),
+					 group)
+	!= XORP_OK) {
+	// NOTE:  This can still fail, but we don't notice until later
+	// when we get the XRL callback response back.  Will do fixup then
+	// as needed.
+	error_msg = c_format("cannot join group %s on vif %s",
+			     cstring(group), name().c_str());
+	return XORP_ERROR;
+    }
+    return XORP_OK;
+}
 
 /**
  * PimVif::start:
@@ -399,7 +425,7 @@ int PimVif::start(string& error_msg, const char* dbg) {
 
     if (! is_underlying_vif_up()) {
 	wants_to_be_started = true;
-	XLOG_WARNING("WARNING:  Delaying start of pim-vif: %s because underlying vif is not up.",
+	XLOG_WARNING("Delaying start of pim-vif: %s because underlying vif is not up.",
 		     name().c_str());
 	return XORP_OK;
     }
@@ -460,19 +486,11 @@ int PimVif::start(string& error_msg, const char* dbg) {
 	return (XORP_ERROR);
     }
 
-    if (! is_pim_register()) {    
-	//
-	// Join the appropriate multicast groups: ALL-PIM-ROUTERS
-	//
-	const IPvX group = IPvX::PIM_ROUTERS(family());
-	if (pim_node()->join_multicast_group(name(),
-					    name(),
-					    pim_node()->ip_protocol_number(),
-					    group)
-	    != XORP_OK) {
-	    error_msg = c_format("cannot join group %s on vif %s",
-				 cstring(group), name().c_str());
-	    return (XORP_ERROR);
+    if (! is_pim_register()) {
+	needs_join = false;
+	if (try_join(error_msg) != XORP_OK) {
+	    XLOG_WARNING("%s", error_msg.c_str());
+	    needs_join = true;
 	}
 	
 	pim_hello_start();
diff --git a/xorp/pim/pim_vif.hh b/xorp/pim/pim_vif.hh
index 1957dd241..abd174199 100644
--- a/xorp/pim/pim_vif.hh
+++ b/xorp/pim/pim_vif.hh
@@ -190,6 +190,10 @@ public:
      */
     int start(string& error_msg, const char* dbg);
     
+    /** Try to join the PIM routers mcast group. */
+    int try_join(string& error_msg);
+    void setNeedsJoin(bool v) { needs_join = v; }
+
     /**  Attempt deferred start.
      */
     void notifyUpdated();
@@ -782,6 +786,7 @@ private:
 					  const IPvX& group_addr,
 					  uint8_t group_mask_len);
     bool wants_to_be_started; // as soon as we can, ie if the interface appears.
+    bool needs_join; // Need to (re)join the pim mcast group?
 };
 
 #endif // __PIM_PIM_VIF_HH__
diff --git a/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.cc b/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.cc
index 699ade953..0a111f836 100644
--- a/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.cc
+++ b/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.cc
@@ -1543,11 +1543,28 @@ XrlPimNode::fea_client_send_join_leave_multicast_group_cb(
     case COMMAND_FAILED:
 	//
 	// If a command failed because the other side rejected it, this is
-	// fatal.
+	// bad, but maybe we can retry....
 	//
-	XLOG_WARNING("Cannot %s a multicast group with the FEA: %s",
-		   entry->operation_name(),
-		   xrl_error.str().c_str());
+	XLOG_WARNING("Cannot %s a multicast group with the FEA, retries: %i: %s",
+		     entry->operation_name(), entry->retries(),
+		     xrl_error.str().c_str());
+	if (entry->is_join()) {
+	    // Need to retry this later
+	    if (entry->retries() > 1) {
+		// tell perm logic to retry
+		PimVif *pim_vif = PimNode::vif_find_by_name(entry->vif_name());
+		if (pim_vif) {
+		    pim_vif->setNeedsJoin(true);
+		}
+	    }
+	    else {
+		// Just retry..maybe things are better now
+		XLOG_WARNING("Will retry failed XRL...\n");
+		entry->set_retries(entry->retries() + 1);
+		retry_xrl_task();
+		return;
+	    }
+	}
 	break;
 
     case NO_FINDER:
diff --git a/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.hh b/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.hh
index 25a4ee2da..e0f695ac0 100644
--- a/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.hh
+++ b/xorp/pim/xrl_pim_node.hh
@@ -2324,12 +2324,12 @@ private:
 	      _vif_name(vif_name),
 	      _ip_protocol(ip_protocol),
 	      _group_address(group_address),
-	      _is_join(is_join) {}
+	      _is_join(is_join), _retries(0) {}
 
-	void		dispatch() {
+	void dispatch() {
 	    _xrl_pim_node.send_join_leave_multicast_group();
 	}
-	const char*	operation_name() const {
+	const char* operation_name() const {
 	    return ((_is_join)? "join" : "leave");
 	}
 	const string&	if_name() const { return _if_name; }
@@ -2337,6 +2337,8 @@ private:
 	uint8_t		ip_protocol() const { return _ip_protocol; }
 	const IPvX&	group_address() const { return _group_address; }
 	bool		is_join() const { return _is_join; }
+	int retries() const { return _retries; }
+	void set_retries(int i) { _retries = i; }
 
     private:
 	string		_if_name;
@@ -2344,6 +2346,7 @@ private:
 	uint8_t		_ip_protocol;
 	IPvX		_group_address;
 	bool		_is_join;
+	int _retries;
     };
 
     /**