Playtime: Also play ignited clips when starting just one clip in silence mode

Describe the bug
Pressing stop on a column makes all clips on tha column stop but then when strating to play a clip from that column again no other clips from other columns will play.

To Reproduce
Steps to reproduce the behavior:

HAve at least 2 playing clips in different columns and rows
While playing click on the Stop button from one of the columns. The clips in tha column stop and the other keep playing
press spacebar to stop playtime
now press play on the clip that was stopped but the clip that was never stopped wont play.

Expected behavior
no clips should stop playing unless i specifically stop them either from it`s slot button , column button or other row is selected.

Screenshots
heres a video capture
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14Zfa9EtMZ9kcjeZ7nWoFYMGT5z2dLRgb/view?usp=sharing

Desktop (please complete the following information):

OS: Windows 10

Additional context

This behavior is actually intended. The rationale behind it is:

Pressing the global play button should play all ignited clips (ignited = the memorized ones with the round play button).
Pressing a specific play button of a slot should play only that slot (if this is not desired, the user should use the global play button).
After pressing that specific play button, the ignited clips are still visible as ignited. The user can choose which of the ignited ones to start playing later and which not.
In a future update, I want to add the ability to ignite clips manually while in silence mode, simply by pressing Cmd/Ctrl + the slot play button. <== I think this is what you are looking for In your case, you would have clicked the play button of the "83bpm" slot while holding Cmd/Ctrl. After that you press space and both clips would play.

oh i see. Well, I think that is very counterintuitive in my opinion. The overall implementation and behaviour of ableton, bitwig and other clip launchers for over 20 years. Muscle memory is very settled. hahah

I`m not sure i really understand why this would be and intented behavour since pressing the global play button wouild keep me from coming back to the performance with that stopped clipped playing again since i cannot press play on both at the same time. Having them in the same row could be a workaround but i guess that conditions the live performance so much to be free.

TO be honest, i still dont understand that silence mode thing. Maybe it`s good to record at first and defined the project tempo recording for the first time, but still, maybe that should be a switch or something in the interface?

In a future update, I want to add the ability to ignite clips manually while in silence mode, simply by pressing Cmd/Ctrl + the slot play button. <== I think this is what you are looking for In your case, you would have clicked the play button of the "83bpm" slot while holding Cmd/Ctrl. After that you press space and both clips would play.

Maybe it could be the other way around? Use a modifier to only play that particular clip and silence the rest?

oh i see. Well, I think that is very counterintuitive in my opinion. The overall implementation and behaviour of ableton, bitwig and other clip launchers for over 20 years. Muscle memory is very settled. hahah

Hmm, okay. I didn't check how it was in Live, until now. I find it interesting that I came up with almost the same solution as theirs, with only that slight detail different LOL. And of course with that double-click to stop abruptly, which Live doesn't seem to have.

That might indeed be a reason to change the behavior, to make it easier for the people coming from there.

I`m not sure i really understand why this would be and intented behavour since pressing the global play button wouild keep me from coming back to the performance with that stopped clipped playing again since i cannot press play on both at the same time. Having them in the same row could be a workaround but i guess that conditions the live performance so much to be free.

This behavior was purely inspired by the analogy "single => single", "global => all". The problem that you described could be handled with that "manual igniting" feature, but I agree that it might be too much trouble in live situations.

Okay, I will change this. If someone doesn't want the other ignited clips to be played when playing a single clip, he can always double-click the matrix stop button before pressing the slot play button (which unignites all slots). The only downside is that he doesn't see the previously ignited slots anymore, but I guess that's acceptable.

TO be honest, i still dont understand that silence mode thing. Maybe it`s good to record at first and defined the project tempo recording for the first time, but still, maybe that should be a switch or something in the interface?

Silence mode is basically just "Stopped", with the additional possibility to dictate a new tempo, in multiple ways:

Count-in tempo tapping
Changing tempo via tempo control
Tempo-detection recording

The reason for automatically initiating a tempo-detection recording is that it saves buttons. Simply recording from stopped state, without any sort of count-in/pre-roll, occurred wild and unnecessary to me. Tempo-detection recording, by contrast, goes quite well with the "dictate new tempo" idea.

If some people really need recording from stopped state without tempo detection, I could still add that in the feature.

In a future update, I want to add the ability to ignite clips manually while in silence mode, simply by pressing Cmd/Ctrl + the slot play button. <== I think this is what you are looking for In your case, you would have clicked the play button of the "83bpm" slot while holding Cmd/Ctrl. After that you press space and both clips would play.

Maybe it could be the other way around? Use a modifier to only play that particular clip and silence the rest?

I guess that would work as well. Let me think about that.

Hmm, okay. I didn't check how it was in Live, until now. I find it interesting that I came up with almost the same solution as theirs, with only that slight detail different LOL. And of course with that double-click to stop abruptly, which Live doesn't seem to have.

That might indeed be a reason to change the behavior, to make it easier for the people coming from there.

Great Im glad you could see it. Sometimes its hard to explain exactly how the workflow feels.

This behavior was purely inspired by the analogy "single => single", "global => all". The problem that you described could be handled with that "manual igniting" feature, but I agree that it might be too much trouble in live situations.

Okay, I will change this. If someone doesn't want the other ignited clips to be played when playing a single clip, he can always double-click the matrix stop button before pressing the slot play button (which unignites all slots).

Super if you can change it!! THANKS !!

The only downside is that he doesn't see the previously ignited slots anymore, but I guess that's acceptable.

Yeah, but I don`t think that would be an issue cause would be an expected beahaviour to double click the matrix stop button to stop everything, so that basically is what a user would want.

Silence mode is basically just "Stopped", with the additional possibility to dictate a new tempo, in multiple ways:

Count-in tempo tapping

Changing tempo via tempo control

Tempo-detection recording

The reason for automatically initiating a tempo-detection recording is that it saves buttons. Simply recording from stopped state, without any sort of count-in/pre-roll, occurred wild and unnecessary to me. Tempo-detection recording, by contrast, goes quite well with the "dictate new tempo" idea.

If some people really need recording from stopped state without tempo detection, I could still add that in the feature.

Yeah, please! Should i make a request for it? Again, a count in is so important to get the feel and get ready before recording in a slot from a stopped state of playtime. I think again is the way ableton and bitwig work and again would really help people coming from there. Maybe a count in / detect switch or something like that so users can decide before playing in playtime? I don`t know, but maybe the same metronome on or off could be that. If metronome is on, you want a count in always...if it is off, then it detects tempo ?

In a future update, I want to add the ability to ignite clips manually while in silence mode, simply by pressing Cmd/Ctrl + the slot play button. <== I think this is what you are looking for In your case, you would have clicked the play button of the "83bpm" slot while holding Cmd/Ctrl. After that you press space and both clips would play.

Maybe it could be the other way around? Use a modifier to only play that particular clip and silence the rest?

I guess that would work as well. Let me think about that.

Sure! If you need any ideas just let me know. THank yoU!

Yeah, please! Should i make a request for it? Again, a count in is so important to get the feel and get ready before recording in a slot from a stopped state of playtime. I think again is the way ableton and bitwig work and again would really help people coming from there. Maybe a count in / detect switch or something like that so users can decide before playing in playtime? I don`t know, but maybe the same metronome on or off could be that. If metronome is on, you want a count in always...if it is off, then it detects tempo ?

Yes, request please (in the discussion / Ideas section). You are talking about count-in, but when I tried this in Live, it just recorded right a way without any count-in. This abrupt start is exactly what I think is unnecessary. But with a count-in/pre-roll it would make sense. Does this need a specific configuration in Live?

OK I will
If live transport is stopper, then there is a count in before recording on any clip slot
If live transport is playing, then recrding begins on whatever you have configured as triggering the clip..next measure usually
here`s a screen capture
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14_eWwii0h54FRcxN3v2-6sn7Bke0x_fq/view?usp=sharing

Also, i think there is always a count in if you want to record in the arrangement in live and you have that track set to play from the arrangement in live.

which reminds me that i have to make some test in reaper and playutime for this behavour as well, but i think i had some strange behaviour with pre rolls and count ins when recording a vocal track in Reaper with a count in for example but playtimne starts inmeditly making the whole thing kinda off sync with the arrangement afterwards. I`ll try to reproduce that and make an issue, but just for you to have in mind.

OK I will If live transport is stopper, then there is a count in before recording on any clip slot

Not on my machine ;) It starts recording immediately. (Live 11)

Here...settings Record, Count In (and there you specify the number of bars)

I adjusted the following feature request accordingly: #1010

Thank you!! That`s great

#1119 Also play ignited clips when starting just one clip in silence …

#1119 Also play ignited clips when triggering just one clip in silenc…

#1119 Comment remaining todos

#1119 Don't start playing when triggering empty clip in silence mode

#1119 Make ENTER and OSC/keyboard slot trigger act just like normal t…

#1119 Improve overall consistency between different ways of playing/s…

I changed the behavior for triggering ignited clips according to our discussion. Will be in 2.16.4.

Amazing!!!!!
THANK YOU!

#1127 #1119 Fix metronome timing when starting clip from silent mode …

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Playtime: Also play ignited clips when starting just one clip in silence mode #1119

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Playtime: Also play ignited clips when starting just one clip in silence mode #1119

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helgoboss commented on Aug 20, 2024

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atencion commented on Aug 27, 2024

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