diff --git a/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java b/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
index bffa388f2b27..890cd8fd1eb5 100644
--- a/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
+++ b/hibernate-core/src/main/java/org/hibernate/collection/spi/AbstractPersistentCollection.java
@@ -179,9 +179,9 @@ public int  getSize() {
 		if ( cachedSize>=0 ) {
 			return cachedSize;
 		}
+        throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 		final CollectionEntry entry = session.getPersistenceContextInternal().getCollectionEntry( this );
 		if ( entry == null ) {
-			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			throwLazyInitializationException("collection not associated with session");
 			throw new AssertionFailure("impossible");
 		}
@@ -355,9 +355,9 @@ protected Boolean readElementExistence(final Object element) {
 
 	@Override
 	public boolean elementExists(Object element) {
+        throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 		final CollectionEntry entry = session.getPersistenceContextInternal().getCollectionEntry( this );
 		if ( entry == null ) {
-			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			throwLazyInitializationException("collection not associated with session");
 			throw new AssertionFailure("impossible");
 		}
@@ -409,9 +409,9 @@ public Object doWork() {
 
 	@Override
 	public Object elementByIndex(Object index) {
+        throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 		final CollectionEntry entry = session.getPersistenceContextInternal().getCollectionEntry( this );
 		if ( entry == null ) {
-			throwLazyInitializationExceptionIfNotConnected();
 			throwLazyInitializationException("collection not associated with session");
 			throw new AssertionFailure("impossible");
 		}
diff --git a/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java b/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java
new file mode 100644
index 000000000000..c65f8e0676d7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/hibernate-core/src/test/java/org/hibernate/orm/test/collection/basic/DetachedElementTest.java
@@ -0,0 +1,154 @@
+/*
+ * SPDX-License-Identifier: Apache-2.0
+ * Copyright Red Hat Inc. and Hibernate Authors
+ */
+package org.hibernate.orm.test.collection.basic;
+
+
+import jakarta.persistence.Entity;
+import jakarta.persistence.Id;
+import jakarta.persistence.ManyToOne;
+import jakarta.persistence.OneToMany;
+import org.hibernate.Hibernate;
+import org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException;
+import org.hibernate.dialect.H2Dialect;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.DomainModel;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.RequiresDialect;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.SessionFactory;
+import org.hibernate.testing.orm.junit.SessionFactoryScope;
+import org.junit.jupiter.api.Test;
+
+import java.util.ArrayList;
+import java.util.HashMap;
+import java.util.List;
+import java.util.Map;
+
+import static org.junit.jupiter.api.Assertions.*;
+
+
+/**
+ * @author Jan Schatteman
+ */
+@DomainModel(
+		annotatedClasses = {DetachedElementTest.EntityWithList.class, DetachedElementTest.ListElement.class,
+				DetachedElementTest.EntityWithMap.class, DetachedElementTest.MapElement.class}
+)
+@SessionFactory
+@RequiresDialect( H2Dialect.class )
+public class DetachedElementTest {
+
+	@Test
+	public void testList(SessionFactoryScope scope) {
+		scope.inSession(
+				session -> {
+                session.getTransaction().begin();
+                EntityWithList parent = new EntityWithList(1);
+                ListElement element = new ListElement(2, parent);
+                session.persist( parent );
+                session.persist( element );
+                session.getTransaction().commit();
+                session.clear();
+
+                // shouldn't throw exceptions for these operations
+                assertEquals( 1, parent.children.size() );
+                assertFalse( parent.children.isEmpty() );
+                assertTrue( parent.children.contains(element) );
+                assertTrue( parent.children.remove(element) );
+
+                assertThrows( LazyInitializationException.class,
+                        () -> Hibernate.get(parent.children, 0)
+                );
+            }
+		);
+	}
+
+	@Test
+	public void testMap(SessionFactoryScope scope) {
+		scope.inSession(
+				session -> {
+				session.getTransaction().begin();
+				EntityWithMap parent = new EntityWithMap(1);
+				MapElement element = new MapElement(2, parent);
+				session.persist(parent);
+				session.persist(element);
+				session.getTransaction().commit();
+				session.clear();
+
+                // shouldn't throw exceptions for these operations
+                assertEquals( 1, parent.children.size() );
+                assertFalse( parent.children.isEmpty() );
+                assertTrue( parent.children.containsKey(element.id) );
+                assertTrue( parent.children.containsValue(element) );
+
+                assertThrows( LazyInitializationException.class,
+                        () -> Hibernate.get(parent.children, 2L)
+                );
+			}
+		);
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class EntityWithList {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@OneToMany(mappedBy = "parent")
+		List<ListElement> children = new ArrayList<>();
+
+		public EntityWithList(int id) {
+			this.id = id;
+		}
+
+		protected EntityWithList() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class ListElement {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@ManyToOne
+		private EntityWithList parent;
+
+		public ListElement(long id, EntityWithList parent) {
+			this.id = id;
+			this.parent = parent;
+			parent.children.add(this);
+		}
+
+		protected ListElement() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class EntityWithMap {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@OneToMany(mappedBy = "parent")
+		Map<Long, MapElement> children = new HashMap<>();
+
+		public EntityWithMap(int id) {
+			this.id = id;
+		}
+
+		protected EntityWithMap() {}
+	}
+
+	@Entity
+	public static class MapElement {
+		@Id
+		long id;
+
+		@ManyToOne
+		private EntityWithMap parent;
+
+		public MapElement(long id, EntityWithMap parent) {
+			this.id = id;
+			this.parent = parent;
+			parent.children.put(id, this);
+		}
+
+		protected MapElement() {}
+	}
+
+}