Remove pleeease.NEXT ? #52

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iamvdo opened this Issue May 27, 2015 · 7 comments

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@iamvdo
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iamvdo commented May 27, 2015

I've never really liked it. It always seems weird to me to base a complete syntax on a non-final spec.
With JS, most of ES6 features are syntactic sugar, but in CSS, most of features are not. Advanced CSS can't be polyfilled or transpiled.

If you really want to use this syntax anyway, you shoud look at cssnext.

I consider removing pleeease.NEXT from next release.

But, I need your opinion on this ?

@raphaelgoetter

+1 :)

@lmaze
lmaze commented May 31, 2015

Hy,

Leave the .next module is just a matter of affinity.
In our company we are several teams to use Pleeease and .next module.

We made the choice not to use preprocessors like Sass or Less (for many reasons that I will not detail here), but we use only Pleeease.next. Combined with a method to organize CSS (like OOCSS), we get a simple code, clean and "standard".

We prefer to base on a non-finalized syntax but which can be standard in the future. We are just aware that the syntax can evolve and take the risk of having to rework our code in case of change. We are also aware that Pleeease.next does not have all the advanced features that offer CSS (especially for variables) but only basic features.

It is enough for us and we think it is a much better solution than using preprocessors.
But this is another debate ;-)

Maybe your main goal is to exploit Pleeease in combination with a preprocessor. In this case removing the .next module seems legitimate. But let it also lets developers like us to have the choice and not having to add other tools like cssnext in our workflow.

If you remove Pleeease.next I understand too. In this case, I think we will use Myth.io that seems to have the same philosophy as us. But I would be honest: it will be with great regrets, the functionality of Myth is less advanced ;-) For us Pleeease was the perfect tool.

@oilvier
oilvier commented Jun 2, 2015

I also use .next, mainly for customMedia and on rare occasions for customProperties.
I think I could replace these with Sass variables and projects like sass-mq.

I see that Pleeease has a support for Sass, so it could be the occasion to move on.

@iamvdo
Owner
iamvdo commented Jun 26, 2015

@lmaze: Thanks for your feedback. Really helpful.
Btw, I don't understand your point about cssnext. Pleeease.NEXT is just a bunch of features that are already in cssnext, so why you wouldn't use it ? Myth is rather old now.

Maybe your main goal is to exploit Pleeease in combination with a preprocessor

This is not the main goal. But, for example, I prefer preprocessors variables instead of postprocessors' ones. Well, more precisely: I prefer variables definition that do not use CSS syntax. Because CSS syntax mean something else. For example, Stylus lets you choose your syntax for variables.

I don't want to create a cssnext's clone. And now that cssnext takes precedence over Pleeease, it's time to remove duplicate features.

@oilvier : In next release, I plan to add the ability to insert any PostCSS plugins in the Pleeease's pipeline, so if you want to add customMedia or anything else, you should be able to do that.

Crazy thing: what about replacing Pleeease.NEXT with cssnext. It doesn't give any benefits, but hey, I wrote "crazy thing" ;)

Maybe you have other ideas?

@lmaze
lmaze commented Jun 27, 2015

Sorry about that, when I wrote my last comment I had not yet looked enough cssnext. It seems very good compared to Myth.

I think one of the greatest strength of Pleeease is its simplicity. It is even possible to use it standalone with the CLI. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you remove Pleeease.next we must then go up a more complex process (eg with Pleeease + Grunt + cssnext, etc.), while Pleeease (+ Pleeease.next) previously allowed to start a new workflow very fast for small or old projects.

But if you add the ability to insert any PostCSS plugins in the next version it would be great! In this case replace Pleeease.next with cssnext would be awesome ;-)

@iamvdo
Owner
iamvdo commented Sep 30, 2015

Fixed in pleeease@4.0.0

@iamvdo iamvdo closed this Sep 30, 2015
@alexandruradulescu

Hi Vincent,

I just saw you removed the .next plugin from 4.0 release.
I love pleeease project, and one of the main reasons was the fact that it had the .next plugin ( 2nd reason in order, after the easiness of using it ;-).

I tried cssnext before but never got it to work properly all the way. There were always some issues (either with cssnext or the grunt plugin for it, or something else). I'm sure it was mostly as I'm still learning, but keeping in mind one of the main ideas for pleeease is the easiness of using it, could you please make at least a very clear tutorial for integrating it?

I understand your reasons for removing it, and I won't argue against it, but this would be much appreciated. And I hope at one point you'll think about adding it(cssnext) to the list of features, just like sass, less and stylus.

Thanks a lot :-)

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