diff --git a/integration-tests/apps/messaging/in_container/src/in_container/tests.clj b/integration-tests/apps/messaging/in_container/src/in_container/tests.clj
index 26c631fe..cbc55020 100644
--- a/integration-tests/apps/messaging/in_container/src/in_container/tests.clj
+++ b/integration-tests/apps/messaging/in_container/src/in_container/tests.clj
@@ -1,15 +1,14 @@
 (ns in-container.tests
   (:use clojure.test)
   (:require [immutant.messaging :as msg]
-            [immutant.registry  :as reg])
-  (:import javax.jms.JMSException))
+            [immutant.registry  :as reg]))
 
 (deftest listen-on-a-queue-should-raise-for-non-existent-destinations
-  (is (thrown? JMSException
+  (is (thrown? IllegalStateException
                (msg/listen "a.non-existent.queue" (constantly nil)))))
 
 (deftest listen-on-a-topic-should-raise-for-non-existent-destinations
-  (is (thrown? JMSException
+  (is (thrown? IllegalStateException
                (msg/listen "a.non-existent.topic" (constantly nil)))))
 
 (deftest queue-start-should-be-synchronous
@@ -28,16 +27,37 @@
   (let [queue "queue.stop.sync"]
     (msg/start queue)
     (msg/stop queue)
-    (is (thrown? JMSException
+    (is (thrown? IllegalStateException
                  (msg/listen queue (constantly true))))))
 
 (deftest topic-stop-should-be-synchronous
   (let [topic "topic.stop.sync"]
     (msg/start topic)
     (msg/stop topic)
-    (is (thrown? JMSException
+    (is (thrown? IllegalStateException
                  (msg/listen topic (constantly true))))))
 
+(deftest queue-start-should-be-idempotent
+  (let [queue "queue.id"]
+    (msg/start queue)
+    (try
+      (msg/start queue)
+      (is true)
+      (catch Exception e
+          (.printStackTrace e)
+          (is false)))))
+
+
+(deftest topic-start-should-be-idempotent
+  (let [topic "topic.id"]
+    (msg/start topic)
+    (try
+      (msg/start topic)
+      (is true)
+      (catch Exception e
+          (.printStackTrace e)
+          (is false)))))
+
 (deftest unlisten-on-a-queue-should-be-synchronous
   (let [queue "queue.ham"]
     (msg/start queue)
diff --git a/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging.clj b/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging.clj
index a7d35978..4f9d57a0 100644
--- a/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging.clj
+++ b/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging.clj
@@ -132,6 +132,7 @@
                    to be set) [nil]"
   [name-or-dest f & {:keys [concurrency decode?] :or {concurrency 1 decode? true} :as opts}]
   (let [connection (create-connection opts)
+        dest-name (destination-name name-or-dest)
         setup-fn (fn []
                    (let [session (create-session connection)
                          destination (create-destination session name-or-dest)]
@@ -143,9 +144,8 @@
     (if-let [izer (registry/get "message-processor-groupizer")]
       
       ;; in-container
-      (when (destination-exists? connection name-or-dest)
+      (if (destination-exists? connection dest-name)
         (let [complete (promise)
-              dest-name (destination-name name-or-dest)
               group (.createGroup izer
                                   dest-name
                                   false ;; TODO: singleton
@@ -157,7 +157,8 @@
                                   #(deliver complete %))]
           (if (= "up" (deref complete 5000 nil))
             group
-            (log/error "Failed to setup listener for" dest-name))))
+            (log/error "Failed to setup listener for" dest-name)))
+        (throw (IllegalStateException. (str "Destination " dest-name " does not exist."))))
       
       ;; out of container
       (try
diff --git a/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging/core.clj b/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging/core.clj
index f2ee25f8..c7aa089d 100644
--- a/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging/core.clj
+++ b/modules/messaging/src/main/clojure/immutant/messaging/core.clj
@@ -16,9 +16,8 @@
 ;; 02110-1301 USA, or see the FSF site: http://www.fsf.org.
 
 (ns immutant.messaging.core
-  (:use [immutant.utilities :only (at-exit)]
-        [immutant.try       :only (try-if)])
-  (:import (javax.jms DeliveryMode Destination Queue Session Topic))
+  (:use [immutant.utilities :only (at-exit)])
+  (:import (javax.jms DeliveryMode Destination JMSException Queue Session Topic))
   (:require [immutant.registry          :as registry]
             [immutant.messaging.hornetq :as hornetq]
             [immutant.xa.transaction    :as tx]
@@ -77,6 +76,9 @@
     javax.jms.Queue (.getQueueName name-or-dest)
     javax.jms.Topic (.getTopicName name-or-dest)))
 
+(defn jms-name [dest-name]
+  (str "jms." (if (queue? dest-name) "queue." "topic.") dest-name))
+
 (defn wash-publish-options
   "Wash publish options relative to default values from a producer"
   [opts ^javax.jms.MessageProducer producer]
@@ -152,7 +154,7 @@
   (if force
     (stop-destination name)
     (if-let [default (registry/get "jboss.messaging.default")]
-      (if-let [queue (.getResource (.getManagementService default) (str "jms.queue." name))]
+      (if-let [queue (.getResource (.getManagementService default) (jms-name name))]
         (cond
          (and (.isDurable queue) (< 0 (.getMessageCount queue))) (log/warn "Won't stop non-empty durable queue:" name)
          (< 0 (.getConsumerCount queue)) (throw (IllegalStateException. "Can't stop queue with active consumers"))
@@ -163,7 +165,7 @@
   (if force
     (stop-destination name)
     (if-let [default (registry/get "jboss.messaging.default")]
-      (if-let [topic (.getResource (.getManagementService default) (str "jms.topic." name))]
+      (if-let [topic (.getResource (.getManagementService default) (jms-name name))]
         (condp > 0
           (.getMessageCount topic) (log/warn "Won't stop topic with messages for durable subscribers:" name)
           (.getSubscriptionCount topic) (throw (IllegalStateException. "Can't stop topic with active subscribers"))
@@ -172,34 +174,23 @@
 
 (defn start-queue [name & {:keys [durable selector] :or {durable true selector ""}}]
   (if-let [izer (registry/get "destinationizer")]
-    
-    ;; in-container
-    (let [complete (promise)]
-      (.createQueue izer name durable selector #(deliver complete %))
-      (if-not (= "up" (deref complete 5000 nil))
-        (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start queue: " name)))))
-
-
-    ;; outside container
-    (if-let [manager (registry/get "jboss.messaging.default.jms.manager")]
-      (if (.createQueue manager false name selector durable (into-array String []))
-        (at-exit #(stop-destination name)))
-      (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start queue: " name))))))
+    (let [complete (promise)
+          service-created (.createQueue izer name durable selector #(deliver complete %))]
+      (if service-created
+        (when (not= "up" (deref complete 5000 nil))
+          (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start queue: " name))))
+        (log/info "Queue already exists:" name)))
+    (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start queue: " name)))))
 
 (defn start-topic [name & opts]
   (if-let [izer (registry/get "destinationizer")]
-
-    ;; in-container
-    (let [complete (promise)]
-      (.createTopic izer name #(deliver complete %))
-      (if-not (= "up" (deref complete 5000 nil))
-        (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start topic: " name)))))
-
-    ;; outside container
-    (if-let [manager (registry/get "jboss.messaging.default.jms.manager")]
-      (if (.createTopic manager false name (into-array String []))
-        (at-exit #(stop-destination name)))
-      (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start topic: " name))))))
+    (let [complete (promise)
+          service-created (.createTopic izer name #(deliver complete %))]
+      (if service-created
+        (when (not= "up" (deref complete 5000 nil))
+          (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start topic: " name))))
+        (log/info "Topic already exists:" name)))
+    (throw (Exception. (str "Unable to start topic: " name)))))
 
 (defn create-session [^javax.jms.XAConnection connection]
   (if (registry/get factory-name)
@@ -222,9 +213,11 @@
     (.createConsumer session destination selector)))
 
 (defn destination-exists?
-  ([connection name-or-dest]
-     (with-open [session (create-session connection)]
-       (create-destination session name-or-dest))))
+  [connection name-or-dest]
+  (try
+    (with-open [session (create-session connection)]
+      (create-destination session name-or-dest))
+    (catch JMSException _)))
 
 (defn enlist-session
   "Enlist a session in the current transaction, if any"
@@ -279,7 +272,6 @@
     (onMessage [_ message]
       (handler message))))
 
-
 ;; TODO: This is currently unused and, if deemed necessary, could
 ;; probably be better implemented
 (defn wait-for-destination 
diff --git a/modules/messaging/src/main/java/org/immutant/messaging/Destinationizer.java b/modules/messaging/src/main/java/org/immutant/messaging/Destinationizer.java
index 66f6277c..efd1188e 100644
--- a/modules/messaging/src/main/java/org/immutant/messaging/Destinationizer.java
+++ b/modules/messaging/src/main/java/org/immutant/messaging/Destinationizer.java
@@ -42,22 +42,34 @@ public Destinationizer(DeploymentUnit unit) {
         super( unit );
     }
 
-    public void createQueue(String queueName, boolean durable, String selector, Object callback) {
+    public boolean createQueue(String queueName, boolean durable, String selector, Object callback) {
+        if (this.destinations.containsKey( queueName )) {
+            return false;
+        } 
+        
         QueueService service = new QueueService( queueName, selector, durable, 
                                                  this.clojureRuntimeInjector.getValue(),
                                                  callback );
-                
+                    
         this.destinations.put( queueName, 
                                QueueInstaller.deploy( getTarget(), service, queueName ) );
+        
+        return true;
     }
     
-    public void createTopic(String topicName, Object callback) {
+    public boolean createTopic(String topicName, Object callback) {
+        if (this.destinations.containsKey( topicName )) {
+            return false;
+        } 
+        
         TopicService service = new TopicService( topicName, 
                                                  this.clojureRuntimeInjector.getValue(),
                                                  callback );
         
         this.destinations.put( topicName, 
                                TopicInstaller.deploy( getTarget(), service, topicName ) );
+        
+        return true;
     }
     
     @SuppressWarnings({ "rawtypes", "unchecked" })
diff --git a/modules/messaging/src/test/clojure/test/immutant/messaging.clj b/modules/messaging/src/test/clojure/test/immutant/messaging.clj
index bd9a8023..b83ac7fa 100644
--- a/modules/messaging/src/test/clojure/test/immutant/messaging.clj
+++ b/modules/messaging/src/test/clojure/test/immutant/messaging.clj
@@ -20,11 +20,10 @@
         clojure.test)
   (:require [immutant.registry :as registry]))
 
-(def dummies { "jboss.messaging.default.jms.manager"
-               (proxy [org.hornetq.jms.server.JMSServerManager][]
-                 (createQueue [& _] true)
-                 (createTopic [& _] true))
-               "housekeeper" nil})
+(def dummies { "destinationizer"
+               (proxy [org.immutant.messaging.Destinationizer] [nil]
+                 (createQueue [& _] false)
+                 (createTopic [& _] false))})
 
 (defn test-already-running [destination]
   (let [names (atom (keys dummies))]