New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Option to set envelope-from explicitly like in older versions #629

Open
nbache opened this Issue Jun 25, 2016 · 2 comments

Comments

Projects
None yet
2 participants
@nbache

nbache commented Jun 25, 2016

I have my own domain name and prefer using mailaddresses with that domain name for anything public, including some mailing lists.

However, my ISP won't allow sending mail from "foreign" mail addresses.

My current workaround is to set the mail address given by my ISP as From, and the one with my domain name as Reply-To. This works, but is clumsy to use on mailing lists, as responses to my mail end up being sent both to the list and to myself, and because it reveals the address I really meant to keep private.

In older versions of YAM (2.3? 2.4?), there was a possibility to configure the envelope-from address, IIRC in the "hidden" config file section. It would be great if this possibility would return, except now of course as something you could set for each specific identity.

This would make it possible for me to have my "foreign" mail address in the From field while having YAM give the SMTP server the allowed address as envelope-from.

@jens-maus

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jens-maus

jens-maus Jun 27, 2016

Owner

I can hardly remember what this "envelope-from" functionality you are pointing at former versions really did, but AFAIR this was also removed during the change in identity management because using a different envelope-from (MAIL FROM: in SMTP communication) address than the from (FROM: in email) address resulted in having these kind of emails being identified as SPAM these days. So please give some example (in terms of showing email headers and what you exactly mean) so that we can better investigate this. But I still feel that using a different email address in the SMTP communication than used in the email RFC822 header would simply result in risking that you domain would sooner or later end up in a public SPAM list.

Better would be if you would register your public domain to your ISP in a way that they also accept emails coming from this domain. Or if you have registered that domain at a different provider you should be able to convince that provider to provide you a SMTP connection to which you could send your emails to. Anything else would really just be a workaround that modern SPAM engine would recognize as potential SPAM an flag your emails accordingly.

Owner

jens-maus commented Jun 27, 2016

I can hardly remember what this "envelope-from" functionality you are pointing at former versions really did, but AFAIR this was also removed during the change in identity management because using a different envelope-from (MAIL FROM: in SMTP communication) address than the from (FROM: in email) address resulted in having these kind of emails being identified as SPAM these days. So please give some example (in terms of showing email headers and what you exactly mean) so that we can better investigate this. But I still feel that using a different email address in the SMTP communication than used in the email RFC822 header would simply result in risking that you domain would sooner or later end up in a public SPAM list.

Better would be if you would register your public domain to your ISP in a way that they also accept emails coming from this domain. Or if you have registered that domain at a different provider you should be able to convince that provider to provide you a SMTP connection to which you could send your emails to. Anything else would really just be a workaround that modern SPAM engine would recognize as potential SPAM an flag your emails accordingly.

@nbache

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@nbache

nbache Jun 27, 2016

On 27/06-2016 at 00:40:01 UTC, Jens Maus wrote:

I can hardly remember what this "envelope-from" functionality you are
pointing at former versions really did, but AFAIR this was also removed
during the change in identity management because using a different
envelope-from (MAIL FROM: in SMTP communication) address than the from
(FROM: in email) address resulted in having these kind of emails being
identified as SPAM these days. So please give some example (in terms of
showing email headers and what you exactly mean) so that we can better
investigate this. But I still feel that using a different email address
in the SMTP communication than used in the email RFC822 header would
simply result in risking that you domain would sooner or later end up
in a public SPAM list.

You may be right about the spam identification risk, I haven't thought about
that side. Do you actually know that this is in general a factor taken into
consideration in spam filters, or are you just guessing it might be? I
don't think my own ISP's filter does that, I am pretty sure I have received
mails which were sent that way, without having to fish them out of the
ISP's spam filter.

Your understanding of what I had in mind is otherwise spot on. I was
intending to be able to make the SMTP communication use my local address
and thus be accepted, while the mail appears to the receiver (human or
list) as sent from the address with my own domain name.

I've been looking through my old Sent folders, but it doesn't look like the
mails saved there have a header for envelope-from. I guess I would have to
have sent such a mail to myself in order to see it as received.

Edit: And now I found such an example. A mail I sent to a number of BCC:
receivers with myself (on my domain) as both From: and To:, and with the
envelope-from set to my ISP mail address.

I enclose an LhA with the headers in the one I received back.

Better would be if you would register your public domain to your ISP in
a way that they also accept emails coming from this domain.

That would of course solve it, if only they would accept it. It's worth a
try, and it was my plan B all along. I don't have high hopes, though, but
I can try.

Or if you
have registered that domain at a different provider you should be able
to convince that provider to provide you a SMTP connection to which you
could send your emails to.

I have registered the domain at a DNS service (Gratisdns.dk) which also
provides (for a small extra fee) a mailforward service, so I can create all
the mail addressses I want under my domain and set up for each of them
where to have them forwarded to - this is then one of my few addresses
provided by my ISP.

They do also offer a mail hotel, which would give me the opportunity to use
their SMTP server (strictly TLS/SSL, though, but YAM should be up to that,
right?). But it is more expensive, especially as they charge per mail
address (and I have hundreds ;-) - this is of course my main reason for
wanting to be able to use them, that I can just throw away any address
which starts to receive spam, and at the same time know where it was leaked
from, as I use separate addresses for separate purposes, e.g. webshops).

I could of course ask them if I could please use their SMTP server (without
having access to POP3 etc. which I wouldn't need), but I doubt they would
let me, it's not really in their interest to have me use it for free, and
it would complicate things for them to set up a charge for it.

[...]

Best regards,

Niels

 ______            Almost quite, but not entirely, unlike forty-two.

*/L][_* _ // Yet another | Niels Bache, Groenlandsvej 12 B
({{_{_7 \X/ Amiga user!!! | DK-2800 Kgs. Lyngby, Denmark
`(
)------(
)-' My other .sig is a Porsche... gh@nbache.dk

nbache commented Jun 27, 2016

On 27/06-2016 at 00:40:01 UTC, Jens Maus wrote:

I can hardly remember what this "envelope-from" functionality you are
pointing at former versions really did, but AFAIR this was also removed
during the change in identity management because using a different
envelope-from (MAIL FROM: in SMTP communication) address than the from
(FROM: in email) address resulted in having these kind of emails being
identified as SPAM these days. So please give some example (in terms of
showing email headers and what you exactly mean) so that we can better
investigate this. But I still feel that using a different email address
in the SMTP communication than used in the email RFC822 header would
simply result in risking that you domain would sooner or later end up
in a public SPAM list.

You may be right about the spam identification risk, I haven't thought about
that side. Do you actually know that this is in general a factor taken into
consideration in spam filters, or are you just guessing it might be? I
don't think my own ISP's filter does that, I am pretty sure I have received
mails which were sent that way, without having to fish them out of the
ISP's spam filter.

Your understanding of what I had in mind is otherwise spot on. I was
intending to be able to make the SMTP communication use my local address
and thus be accepted, while the mail appears to the receiver (human or
list) as sent from the address with my own domain name.

I've been looking through my old Sent folders, but it doesn't look like the
mails saved there have a header for envelope-from. I guess I would have to
have sent such a mail to myself in order to see it as received.

Edit: And now I found such an example. A mail I sent to a number of BCC:
receivers with myself (on my domain) as both From: and To:, and with the
envelope-from set to my ISP mail address.

I enclose an LhA with the headers in the one I received back.

Better would be if you would register your public domain to your ISP in
a way that they also accept emails coming from this domain.

That would of course solve it, if only they would accept it. It's worth a
try, and it was my plan B all along. I don't have high hopes, though, but
I can try.

Or if you
have registered that domain at a different provider you should be able
to convince that provider to provide you a SMTP connection to which you
could send your emails to.

I have registered the domain at a DNS service (Gratisdns.dk) which also
provides (for a small extra fee) a mailforward service, so I can create all
the mail addressses I want under my domain and set up for each of them
where to have them forwarded to - this is then one of my few addresses
provided by my ISP.

They do also offer a mail hotel, which would give me the opportunity to use
their SMTP server (strictly TLS/SSL, though, but YAM should be up to that,
right?). But it is more expensive, especially as they charge per mail
address (and I have hundreds ;-) - this is of course my main reason for
wanting to be able to use them, that I can just throw away any address
which starts to receive spam, and at the same time know where it was leaked
from, as I use separate addresses for separate purposes, e.g. webshops).

I could of course ask them if I could please use their SMTP server (without
having access to POP3 etc. which I wouldn't need), but I doubt they would
let me, it's not really in their interest to have me use it for free, and
it would complicate things for them to set up a charge for it.

[...]

Best regards,

Niels

 ______            Almost quite, but not entirely, unlike forty-two.

*/L][_* _ // Yet another | Niels Bache, Groenlandsvej 12 B
({{_{_7 \X/ Amiga user!!! | DK-2800 Kgs. Lyngby, Denmark
`(
)------(
)-' My other .sig is a Porsche... gh@nbache.dk

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment