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Update cog icon to user icon in administrator template index.php #10031

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brianpeat commented Apr 21, 2016

Pull Request for Issue # .

Summary of Changes

Testing Instructions

I propose changing the gear icon to a user icon for the user menu at the top right of the admin template. While I know the user icon is also used in the subsequent drop down, that gear never made sense to me as this is a user menu. There's nothing in that menu that's NOT user related (unless you argue that a log out option isn't user related).

In many other systems, that sort of menu is denoted by a user or head icon. This would just bring a bit more clarity to that menu.

To test the change, log into the admin and see if the cog icon is now a user icon.

Update index.php
I propose changing the gear icon to a user icon. While I know the user icon is also used in the subsequent drop down, that gear never made sense to me as this is a user menu. There's nothing in that menu that's NOT user related (unless you argue that a log out option isn't user related).

In many other systems, that sort of menu is denoted by a user or head icon. This would just bring a bit more clarity to that menu.

To test the change, log into the admin and see if the cog icon is now a user icon.
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I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

I have tested this and I see the user icon.


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uglyeoin commented Apr 21, 2016

I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

I have tested this and I see the user icon.


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I believe the original designers chose a gear as it is more that a simple
user menu - it is where you go to log out and a gear is more common for
that than a user icon
On 21 Apr 2016 3:15 pm, "uglyeoin" notifications@github.com wrote:

I have tested this item [image: ] successfully on
f58e1f4
f58e1f4

I have tested this and I see the user icon.

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https://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/10031.


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#10031 (comment)

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brianteeman commented Apr 21, 2016

I believe the original designers chose a gear as it is more that a simple
user menu - it is where you go to log out and a gear is more common for
that than a user icon
On 21 Apr 2016 3:15 pm, "uglyeoin" notifications@github.com wrote:

I have tested this item [image: ] successfully on
f58e1f4
f58e1f4

I have tested this and I see the user icon.

This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application
https://github.com/joomla/jissues at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/10031
https://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/10031.


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#10031 (comment)

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I've logged into dozens of systems of all sorts. Nearly all of them put the log out under what they call the user menu. I've learned to look for a user menu FIRST when trying to log out. So I'd argue it still makes sense to use the user icon for that menu.

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brianpeat commented Apr 21, 2016

I've logged into dozens of systems of all sorts. Nearly all of them put the log out under what they call the user menu. I've learned to look for a user menu FIRST when trying to log out. So I'd argue it still makes sense to use the user icon for that menu.

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I have tested this item 🔴 unsuccessfully on f58e1f4

It does what it says but I believe it is wrong to change for the reasons I stated above


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brianteeman commented Apr 21, 2016

I have tested this item 🔴 unsuccessfully on f58e1f4

It does what it says but I believe it is wrong to change for the reasons I stated above


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Although I don't think this is a major dealbreaker, I kind of agree with Brian Peat. If you don't have access permissions to access the user menu, then this is the place to update your user profile. In that instance a user icon makes more sense.

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uglyeoin commented Apr 21, 2016

Although I don't think this is a major dealbreaker, I kind of agree with Brian Peat. If you don't have access permissions to access the user menu, then this is the place to update your user profile. In that instance a user icon makes more sense.

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I agree with Brian Peat. The gear is more of a settings and proceed. But the user icon is more suited for the function of this item


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tonypartridge commented Apr 21, 2016

I agree with Brian Peat. The gear is more of a settings and proceed. But the user icon is more suited for the function of this item


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coffeegroup Apr 21, 2016

Nice - a human touch!

coffeegroup commented Apr 21, 2016

Nice - a human touch!

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I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

I agree with @brianpeat too. 👍
A "gear" (aka "cog") is a pictogram almost universally used for "settings" and doesn't makes any sense there. Hint: go to https://fortawesome.github.io/Font-Awesome/icons/, search for "settings" and for "user" and see what pops out.


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smz commented Apr 21, 2016

I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

I agree with @brianpeat too. 👍
A "gear" (aka "cog") is a pictogram almost universally used for "settings" and doesn't makes any sense there. Hint: go to https://fortawesome.github.io/Font-Awesome/icons/, search for "settings" and for "user" and see what pops out.


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I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

Tested successfully and agree with brianpeat.


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BurtNL commented Apr 21, 2016

I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4

Tested successfully and agree with brianpeat.


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@brianteeman When opening the menu behind the icon discussed here, then the head line showing the user name already contains a user icon and not a gear icon left beside the user name, see pre-patch screenshot:
screen shot 2016-04-21 at 15 23 14

So for consistency aspects the icons should be the same, and with this PR they are, and as it is right now all functions in that menu have something to do with the user, see post-patch screenshot:
screen shot 2016-04-21 at 15 26 12

I think the 2nd screen shot is more consistent, and the user icon fits perfectly to the functions in this menu.


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richard67 commented Apr 21, 2016

@brianteeman When opening the menu behind the icon discussed here, then the head line showing the user name already contains a user icon and not a gear icon left beside the user name, see pre-patch screenshot:
screen shot 2016-04-21 at 15 23 14

So for consistency aspects the icons should be the same, and with this PR they are, and as it is right now all functions in that menu have something to do with the user, see post-patch screenshot:
screen shot 2016-04-21 at 15 26 12

I think the 2nd screen shot is more consistent, and the user icon fits perfectly to the functions in this menu.


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I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4


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richard67 commented Apr 21, 2016

I have tested this item successfully on f58e1f4


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Wouldn't change this in a minor release. It would force all book publisher and the documentation we have to update screenshots. I might agree that a user is better but the impact on other areas is to big for my understanding.

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rdeutz commented Apr 21, 2016

Wouldn't change this in a minor release. It would force all book publisher and the documentation we have to update screenshots. I might agree that a user is better but the impact on other areas is to big for my understanding.

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Ok, but so or so it should not be blocked by a bad test by @brianteeman , it should be set to "needs review" instead, if there is still need for discussion.

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richard67 commented Apr 21, 2016

Ok, but so or so it should not be blocked by a bad test by @brianteeman , it should be set to "needs review" instead, if there is still need for discussion.

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@richard67 I made the decision or are you asking to discuss this with the whole PLT

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rdeutz commented Apr 21, 2016

@richard67 I made the decision or are you asking to discuss this with the whole PLT

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@rdeutz No, I do not need a PLT discussion. I thought Brian wanted some because he had set the test result to "not successful". And I worry a bad test result could have negative impact on the evaluation later for 4.0.

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richard67 commented Apr 21, 2016

@rdeutz No, I do not need a PLT discussion. I thought Brian wanted some because he had set the test result to "not successful". And I worry a bad test result could have negative impact on the evaluation later for 4.0.

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@richard67 oh, it is clear why Brian set the test to failed, hasn't more impact as the voicing of a concern, all good

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rdeutz commented Apr 21, 2016

@richard67 oh, it is clear why Brian set the test to failed, hasn't more impact as the voicing of a concern, all good

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For the record, I always believed that the top right was the perfect place for a cog. I think in a lot of systems that is exactly where you find the settings. But in most systems the cog would go to Global Configuration, which is why I agree with Brian Peat. I know there is going to be a new template at some stage so that point is more for discussion in the next template.

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uglyeoin commented Apr 22, 2016

For the record, I always believed that the top right was the perfect place for a cog. I think in a lot of systems that is exactly where you find the settings. But in most systems the cog would go to Global Configuration, which is why I agree with Brian Peat. I know there is going to be a new template at some stage so that point is more for discussion in the next template.

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@rdeutz Robert, as far as regards our screenshots I have the feeling that it wouldn't matter much. See what we have at what I think is the most relevant documentation page (https://docs.joomla.org/Administrator_%28Application%29):

capture

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smz commented Apr 22, 2016

@rdeutz Robert, as far as regards our screenshots I have the feeling that it wouldn't matter much. See what we have at what I think is the most relevant documentation page (https://docs.joomla.org/Administrator_%28Application%29):

capture

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And guess what, that docs.joomla page? Where do you find the log out option on that site? Under a user icon at the top right. :)

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brianpeat commented Apr 22, 2016

And guess what, that docs.joomla page? Where do you find the log out option on that site? Under a user icon at the top right. :)

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At some point someone needs to make a decision, you don't need to like my decision.

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rdeutz commented Apr 22, 2016

At some point someone needs to make a decision, you don't need to like my decision.

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And guess what, that docs.joomla page? Where do you find the log out option on that site? Under a user icon at the top right. :)

I don't think that's a fair argument to use to support your change. Different software platform, different context. The issue tracker's user menu uses your GitHub avatar, so by that argument I could say the CMS' user profiles should support avatars and those be integrated into the menus 😃

screen shot 2016-04-22 at 3 28 13 pm

TBH, I don't know if there's more gained from changing it than leaving it alone other than "hey, we've got a different icon to represent this menu; some folks think it's better, others don't". Not to downplay or downvote the change at all. Then again, muscle memory has been affecting me for so long I don't really pay attention to the actual 16x16px space where some graphic is at to show me there's a menu there, I just move my mouse in that general direction and hit whatever I need.

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mbabker commented Apr 22, 2016

And guess what, that docs.joomla page? Where do you find the log out option on that site? Under a user icon at the top right. :)

I don't think that's a fair argument to use to support your change. Different software platform, different context. The issue tracker's user menu uses your GitHub avatar, so by that argument I could say the CMS' user profiles should support avatars and those be integrated into the menus 😃

screen shot 2016-04-22 at 3 28 13 pm

TBH, I don't know if there's more gained from changing it than leaving it alone other than "hey, we've got a different icon to represent this menu; some folks think it's better, others don't". Not to downplay or downvote the change at all. Then again, muscle memory has been affecting me for so long I don't really pay attention to the actual 16x16px space where some graphic is at to show me there's a menu there, I just move my mouse in that general direction and hit whatever I need.

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My point was just that there's precedent for that type of menu having the user icon. Brian T argued that since it had the log out menu in it, it's not a user menu. I was giving an example FROM ONE OF OUR OWN SITES where the user menu indeed does have the logout function in it.

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brianpeat commented Apr 22, 2016

My point was just that there's precedent for that type of menu having the user icon. Brian T argued that since it had the log out menu in it, it's not a user menu. I was giving an example FROM ONE OF OUR OWN SITES where the user menu indeed does have the logout function in it.

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Well now you have two examples where it isn't some kind of cog icon 😉

Either way I personally don't think it matters much. But I'm also the last person who should ever be consulted on UI matters.

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mbabker commented Apr 22, 2016

Well now you have two examples where it isn't some kind of cog icon 😉

Either way I personally don't think it matters much. But I'm also the last person who should ever be consulted on UI matters.

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At some point someone needs to make a decision, you don't need to like my decision.

You're absolutely right, Robert, but personally, especially with such non-technical minutiae, I will tend to listen the majority's voice: I think I don't have to remember you what "Joomla" means...

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smz commented Apr 22, 2016

At some point someone needs to make a decision, you don't need to like my decision.

You're absolutely right, Robert, but personally, especially with such non-technical minutiae, I will tend to listen the majority's voice: I think I don't have to remember you what "Joomla" means...

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OK, some want a gear icon, some want a user icon ... maybe a "user with a gear head" icon could be a compromise?

screen shot 2016-04-22 at 15 48 18

😃


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richard67 commented Apr 22, 2016

OK, some want a gear icon, some want a user icon ... maybe a "user with a gear head" icon could be a compromise?

screen shot 2016-04-22 at 15 48 18

😃


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@smz if it is non-technical I am only following my heart :-)

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rdeutz commented Apr 22, 2016

@smz if it is non-technical I am only following my heart :-)

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My solution just switched ico font codes, making some weird new hybrid icon would mean a lot more work. I'd say we have more For the change than against, but honestly, if I'd known it would be a bunch of people debating and not getting anywhere I'd have just not bothered. Is it always like this?

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brianpeat commented Apr 22, 2016

My solution just switched ico font codes, making some weird new hybrid icon would mean a lot more work. I'd say we have more For the change than against, but honestly, if I'd known it would be a bunch of people debating and not getting anywhere I'd have just not bothered. Is it always like this?

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My solution just switched ico font codes, making some weird new hybrid icon would mean a lot more work.

I guess Richard's icon was a joke!! (and a nice one!)

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smz commented Apr 22, 2016

My solution just switched ico font codes, making some weird new hybrid icon would mean a lot more work.

I guess Richard's icon was a joke!! (and a nice one!)

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ah, you're probably right, I just realized he actually made an icon with the head as a gear. I somehow missed that the first time around :)

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brianpeat commented Apr 22, 2016

ah, you're probably right, I just realized he actually made an icon with the head as a gear. I somehow missed that the first time around :)

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Hmm, just was thinking about proposing my new icon to be included into unicode standard 😄

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richard67 commented Apr 22, 2016

Hmm, just was thinking about proposing my new icon to be included into unicode standard 😄

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Is it always like this?

Depends what it is. Everyone has an opinion and few will make a decision. Then even after the decision's made it's expected to continue defending the position of your decision until time reaches an end.

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mbabker commented Apr 22, 2016

Is it always like this?

Depends what it is. Everyone has an opinion and few will make a decision. Then even after the decision's made it's expected to continue defending the position of your decision until time reaches an end.

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...until time reaches an end.

According to some time does not exist, and its "perception" derive only from lack of information.
See what my old friend Carlo Rovelli has to say about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Rovelli#Physics_without_time

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smz commented Apr 22, 2016

...until time reaches an end.

According to some time does not exist, and its "perception" derive only from lack of information.
See what my old friend Carlo Rovelli has to say about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Rovelli#Physics_without_time

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I vote for changing it. The idea came from JUX discussions and basic research we've done. I don't see any issues with changing it, there are people that don't care either way and it won't affect them, but there seem to be a lot of people that think it's a good idea.

If we find later that many people dislike the change, it's not really difficult to change it back and at least we'll know how people feel about it. I don't see any compelling reason not to do this, so I say let's do it :)


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cpfeifer commented Apr 29, 2016

I vote for changing it. The idea came from JUX discussions and basic research we've done. I don't see any issues with changing it, there are people that don't care either way and it won't affect them, but there seem to be a lot of people that think it's a good idea.

If we find later that many people dislike the change, it's not really difficult to change it back and at least we'll know how people feel about it. I don't see any compelling reason not to do this, so I say let's do it :)


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Please update the PR title.
It seems that it concerns changes in the front controller, not the user icon.

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piotr-cz commented May 4, 2016

Please update the PR title.
It seems that it concerns changes in the front controller, not the user icon.

@brianpeat brianpeat changed the title from Update index.php to Update cog icon to user icon in administrator template index.php May 4, 2016

@wilsonge wilsonge added this to the Joomla 3.6.0 milestone May 7, 2016

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As we have the OK from our UX team lead in Cliff I'm merging this.

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wilsonge commented May 7, 2016

As we have the OK from our UX team lead in Cliff I'm merging this.

@wilsonge wilsonge merged commit 334cb7b into joomla:staging May 7, 2016

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