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Server? #6374

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k0nsl opened this Issue Mar 27, 2017 · 21 comments

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@k0nsl
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commented Mar 27, 2017

Hi,

I like the idea of this chat (especially the encrypted filesharing feature). I'm just wondering if the server portion is available somewhere for public consumption? I would like to run my own self-hosted server, that is why I am asking.

Thanks in advance.

@cjb

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commented Mar 27, 2017

Hi! No, we haven't released the server side of the filesystem publicly.

@rawtaz

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commented Sep 19, 2017

So much for being open source then ;)

For reference; It states on the Keybase Teams page https://keybase.io/blog/introducing-keybase-teams that "Our project is open source", in this context suggesting that both client and server is open source.

I too was looking for the server part (for self-hosting instead of relying on an external service), but couldn't find anything about it on the website. I understand now that it's only the client and some other tools that are open source.

Fair enough!

PS: I'm also not seeing a "Contact us" link on the main website.

@kefahi

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commented Mar 2, 2018

I would strongly advise that you live to the Open Source promise you made and release the server-side code as open source as well.

@v01d

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commented Apr 2, 2018

I too would like to know if this is on the plans or will be your business model based on providing a service using your closed source implementation. It is also interesting to know if keybase could eventually be decentralized or not.

@RusAlex

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commented May 15, 2018

GDPR firing up this month. Keybase seems like a great solution, but need self-hosted servers. would be great.

@keybase-travis

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commented Aug 20, 2018

@sau226

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commented Oct 13, 2018

@keybase-travis @cjb Please put this on your roadmap or reclarify the open source statement. Even if some non critical patches are left out and some proprietary parts that are not required to run a successful copy are removed the community will be greatful if you do release this either as open source or source available

@TheUserCreated

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commented Mar 6, 2019

Perhaps an open source version stripped of anything in the server software that you wish to keep for keybase, ala chrome vs chromium. @keybase-travis @cjb. I apologise for commenting on an old issue, but I feel this is important.

@menturion

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commented Mar 6, 2019

Same here and +1 for the suggestion of @TheUserCreated.

An open source version of the server part with a subset of functionality could be a good approach to meet all aspects.

@maxtaco

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commented Mar 27, 2019

A small point here: NCC in their audit didn't wind up using any of our server code, though we made it available to them. They did all of their research using a proxy.

We unfortunately spend a lot of time fighting spammers and scammers, and we'd have to make sure not to release any of this "secret sauce" because it would make our lives so much harder.

@daveloyall

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commented Mar 27, 2019

spammers and scammers

How do you know that, if you can't read our messages? ;)

All of my favorite decentralized mediums are full of spam: usenet, email, and IRC. As a grownup, I understand that I can't have a freeman's communication network without spam. That's what clientside /ignore and killfiles are for.

@daveloyall

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commented Mar 27, 2019

Max, I appreciate the free service y'all are providing to me, and I appreciate your special effort to make the crypto very legit. But, the responses on this thread come off as disingenuous.

I think I speak for almost all of us when I say that the truth is that you don't want to release the various "secret sauces" because it would make your lives so much poorer.

I think I speak for merely a modest majority of us when I say that's not cool, man. To put a point on it: I am aware that some of us think it's OK for you to make a thing and profit from it, but I'm not one of them.

Wouldn't your team like to be known forever for creating the "email" of filesystems? Something so ubiquitous that it doesn't have a brand name anymore? You can't do that and sell your users just as soon as you get an offer with a B in it.

@maxtaco

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commented Mar 27, 2019

Just to answer the question about how we know: it's a combination of people complaining to us, and public things like signing up with public scammy usernames (e.g., lumensgiveaway2).

@a3nm

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commented Mar 27, 2019

Would it be possible to release the server source without the secret abuse filtering part then? (Essentailly like @sau226 was proposing above.)

@cup

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commented Mar 28, 2019

@daveloyall

I think I speak for almost all of us when I say that the truth is that you
don't want to release the various "secret sauces" because it would make your
lives so much poorer.

...wow. You have some gall. As you said yourself, they are providing a free
service. As you are not and likely never will be a customer of theirs, they do
not owe you anything.

If they wished, they could lock the client today as well and it would be in
their full legal right to do so
. Granted old versions would still be available
as open source, but any new version of the client starting today could be closed
source and non-free if they so choose. If they wish to charge for the server, so
what? If they choose to operate as a business instead of a charity or nonprofit,
that is their choice same as yours.

I think I speak for merely a modest majority of us when I say that's not cool,
man.

You do not speak for the majority of us. Perhaps you speak for other users
that are equally uninformed of the ways of the open source community.

To put a point on it: I am aware that some of us think it's OK for you to make
a thing and profit from it, but I'm not one of them.

It is not a matter of what anyone thinks. It is their decision if they want to
operate as a business. Your thoughts only come in to play in regards to you
deciding to be a customer, should they decide to run as a business.

Wouldn't your team like to be known forever for creating the "email" of
filesystems? Something so ubiquitous that it doesn't have a brand name
anymore? You can't do that and sell your users just as soon as you get an
offer with a B in it.

Oh no? I think several companies are doing this already. Remember a decade ago
YouTube did not have monetization. YouTube is the "email" of video streaming,
and while they still have free offering, they certainly do charge for some
services:

https://www.youtube.com/premium

charging for Keybase server would be no different. Finally if you do not like
the current situation; you are welcome to release your own server, but we all
know that is not going to happen.

Cheers

@junderw

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commented Mar 28, 2019

The amount of entitlement... lol

How about you spend 8 hours a day and make a great library that Keybase will really want to use in their backend, and make your library use GPLv3. Then they will have to open source.

Go for it. I'll star you on github.

@ibsusu

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commented Mar 29, 2019

spammers and scammers

How do you know that, if you can't read our messages? ;)

All of my favorite decentralized mediums are full of spam: usenet, email, and IRC. As a grownup, I understand that I can't have a freeman's communication network without spam. That's what clientside /ignore and killfiles are for.

Can't have a freeman's communication network without spam? lul wut? This is what I hate about adults, you guys give up. Hold my beer.

@daveloyall

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commented Mar 29, 2019

@ibsusu

Can't have a freeman's communication network without spam? lul wut?

We're getting tautological here... It's not a free network if I'm not free to send spam. :) Likewise, it wouldn't be a free network if you were compelled to receive it. Thus, the network must have both /send and /ignore.

@cup

YouTube is the "email" of video streaming

No, it isn't. Nobody owns email, not even the IETF. You do know that email is more like CB radio than it is like your cellphone company's data plan, right?

Everyone,
This thread is about a request for the keybase server-side components to be released under a Free Software license.

I'm using the github web interface to see the emoji reactions to everybody's posts here and I see that we're split. My comment, pointed though it was, was praised by some.

My comment was pointed because I really really like Keybase! Among all the contenders, commercial, free, open, closed, distributed, federated, and centralized, keybase is quite possibly the nicest foundation currently available on which the communications network of my dreams might be built.

If you love something, set it free. Let it become bigger than you. That is what this ticket is asking for.

@crazy-eddie

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commented Apr 14, 2019

I came here looking for an answer to whether this was an interesting self-hosted solution. This thread convinced me not only there is no such thing here or ever will be, but that you entrust your security to obscurity...and that's not enough for me.

You don't have to care...but so you know...I was looking into your project and am walking on over that away.

@junderw

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commented Apr 14, 2019

Free Software is all about clients.

Free Software Foundation themselves acknowledge that server-side source is not needed as long as the client side is free and you can verify it doesn't send anything you choose not to send, to that server.

Anyone trying to play the "but mah Free Software" card are mistaken.

The software is free.

Just because a lot of cool projects also open source and federate servers doesn't mean that is now required for the 4 freedoms of software.

Anyone bringing those arguments here, admit that you just want it because you want it, don't try to bring in the Free Software ideology into this.

Keybase client software ticks all 4 boxes.
Keybase server doesn't run on my machine and I don't send it anything valuable unencrypted.

@Luraktinus

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commented Apr 17, 2019

It's a bummer that I can't host it myself

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