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scrollbar configuration in Sys Settings #3691

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jelabarre59 opened this issue Nov 21, 2014 · 14 comments

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@jelabarre59
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commented Nov 21, 2014

Since various theme makers have the mistaken impression that no one uses scrollbar arrows, and in various cases don't want scrollbars that are wide enough to use, I think there needs to be a separate configuration for scrollbars in "System Settings" under "Appearance". At minimum there needs to be a setting under "Themes" to override what a particular theme does, so you can force a minimum scrollbar width as well as force a theme to show scrollbar arrows. Seeing as there are 2 sets of GTK libraries, this will have to set GTK2 as well as GTK3.

@leigh123linux

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commented Nov 22, 2014

Your issue has nothing to do with cinnamon!
Try whining at the GTK3/GTK theme developers of whatever theme you use instead.

@jelabarre59

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commented Nov 22, 2014

If Cinnamon is setting other GTK-related settings, then it should be possible to have a control center component that will set the scrollbar values. Whatt you're suggesting is to hunt down HUNDREDS of developers to fix something (which a lot of them won't even bother doing), rather than making a settings object (or whatever you would call a control center item) that would ensure the correct settings get overridden in the theme once it is applied. Which seems more logical to you? Yes, the theme developers are wrong, but if you extended taht logic to other parts of the system, you might as well throw out the entire Control Center, since it's functionality can be otherwise handled by a multitude of disparate utilities or configuration files.

@JosephMcc

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commented Nov 22, 2014

Well maybe you disagree with the design of some themes but I'm not sure theme developers are wrong here. They put in the time and effort to create the themes and in the end the design is up to them. I agree with @leigh123linux here. If you would like to see changes in your favorite themes your best bet is to contact the developer or find themes that better suit your personal tastes.

It's not as straightforward as you might think to make this available in Cinnamon Settings. For the most part the settings are just a nice interface for setting various gsettings keys so that users don't have to access them via the command line or something like dconf editor. What your talking about is a little different. The settings to control the styling of the scrollbars are actually part of the text files that make up the themes. Even if you allow a setting to change this, in many cases you aren't going to get the desired result. If a theme doesn't use scrollbar arrows in the first place it most likely doesn't contain any proper theming for them so if you just enable them they likely won't display correctly. The same goes for the size of scrollbars. In many cases the theming is set up to work with the particular size they are already.

@jelabarre59

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commented Nov 24, 2014

And I say it should NOT be up to the theme developers as to whether or not I have arrows on scrollbars. To reiterate the point you missed before; do you realize just how many developers yo would have to contact just to get each theme fixed? It's a far better solution to get a setting option in the Control Center to fix the oversight by theme developers. If you want to take the tack that it should not be a centralized setting, then you might as well throw out the entirety of the Control Center as well, because the same can be said of everything else there.

@Topperfalkon

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commented Nov 24, 2014

@jelabarre59
Re-read @JosephMcc's comment, in particular:

What your talking about is a little different. The settings to control the styling of the scrollbars are actually part of the text files that make up the themes. Even if you allow a setting to change this, in many cases you aren't going to get the desired result. If a theme doesn't use scrollbar arrows in the first place it most likely doesn't contain any proper theming for them so if you just enable them they likely won't display correctly. The same goes for the size of scrollbars. In many cases the theming is set up to work with the particular size they are already.

If Cinnamon enforces scrollbar arrows on themes, it can't necessarily guarantee that those arrows will fit with the theme, causing visual artefacts and defects that would be worse than not providing the feature.

I don't understand why you consider this issue so important, there are many alternatives to using the arrows that any machine and software should support. The arrows have minimal practical accessibility usage and probably low usage generally. The other commenters are correct. Making changes to the themes to include arrows, if wanted, is the job of the theme developers, not Cinnamon devs.

@leigh123linux

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commented Nov 24, 2014

@jelabarre59

Try this example and see how it messes things up.

curl https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6907158/gtk.css -o $HOME/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css
*{

-GtkScrollbar-has-backward-stepper: 1;
-GtkScrollbar-has-forward-stepper: 1;
-GtkRange-slider-width: 23;

}
@jelabarre59

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commented Nov 24, 2014

Well, that manages to fix things so my scrollbars display correctly. So why is this so hard to put in Control Center again? (sure, you have to make sure it sets GTK2 as well as GTK3, still not so problematic).

@JosephMcc

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commented Nov 24, 2014

Ok, well if you think that works just fine then you have a solution you can use. You've decided that you are right and the rest of us are wrong so I don't really know what is left to discuss.

@glebihan glebihan closed this Nov 24, 2014

@nardholio

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commented Jan 26, 2015

Except the default cinnamon themes lack scrollbar arrows, so it is kind of Cinnamon's fault

@jlu5

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commented Jan 27, 2015

@nardholio The default theme that Cinnamon uses depends on where you're getting it from. It will usually use GNOME's Adwaita theme as a default (on most distros), or Mint-X if you're running it on Linux Mint. Regardless, you should be contacting those developers instead. Cinnamon is a desktop environment, not a GTK theme!

@jelabarre59

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commented Jan 27, 2015

But there should be a way to tweak that value within the entire UI. Rather than having to contact a few hundred theme makers, have ONE place to fix the problem. How does it make sense to have to hunt down a multitude of theme makers, who probably have their own "vision" which will be in conflict with actual usability.

@nardholio

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commented Jan 27, 2015

I gave up and switched to clearlooks-phenix which has the arrows. In doing so I noticed another bug, Chrome is using the KDE settings for gtk themes instead of my actual gtk settings. But that's a different discussion.

@jelabarre59

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commented Dec 11, 2015

I gave up and switched to clearlooks-phenix which has the arrows. In doing so I noticed another bug, Chrome is using the KDE settings for gtk themes instead of my actual gtk settings. But that's a different discussion.

Yeah, I notice the only answer people want to give on this glaring defect is to limit myself to butt-ugly themes. With that sort of "we're right and you're wrong" I might as well be using MSWin or OS-X.

@KAMI911

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commented Mar 28, 2016

Hi Folks,
What about to add three state Theme settings (Enable, Disable, Use Theme default settings) that include a css file in /.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css
For example:
@import url("/usr/share/cinnamon/cinnamon-settings/data/theme/gtk-scrollbar-enable.css");
or
@import url("/usr/share/cinnamon/cinnamon-settings/data/theme/gtk-scrollbar-disable.css");
depending on the three state.
If someone can help me I would happy to implement this feature.

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