diff --git a/docs/source/commandline/commandline-all.rst b/docs/source/commandline/commandline-all.rst
index aa91bd6307c9e..91c69ab8bc147 100644
--- a/docs/source/commandline/commandline-all.rst
+++ b/docs/source/commandline/commandline-all.rst
@@ -899,22 +899,24 @@ Example:
       - dinput
       - xinput
       - none
-      - sdl
+      - sdljoy
+      - sdlgame
     * - **SDL**
       - auto [#JIPAutoSDL]_.
       -
       -
       -
       - none
-      - sdl
+      - sdljoy
+      - sdlgame
 
 ..  rubric:: Footnotes
 
 ..  [#JIPAutoWindows] On Windows, auto will default to ``dinput``.
 
-..  [#JIPAutoSDL] On SDL, auto will default to ``sdl``.
+..  [#JIPAutoSDL] On SDL, auto will default to ``sdljoy``.
 
-.. Tip:: Note that Microsoft XBox 360 and XBox One controllers connected to
+.. Tip:: Note that Microsoft Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers connected to
          Windows will work best with ``winhybrid`` or ``xinput``. The
          ``winhybrid`` option supports a mix of DirectInput and XInput
          controllers at the same time.
diff --git a/docs/source/commandline/sdlconfig.rst b/docs/source/commandline/sdlconfig.rst
index 0b52739e4c3e0..84f31bf89b923 100644
--- a/docs/source/commandline/sdlconfig.rst
+++ b/docs/source/commandline/sdlconfig.rst
@@ -70,8 +70,9 @@ SDL Joystick Mapping
 
 **-sixaxis**
 
-    Use special handling for PlayStation 3 SixAxis controllers. Default is OFF
-    (**-nosixaxis**)
+    Use special handling for PlayStation 3 SixAxis controllers.  May cause
+    undesirable behaviour with other controllers.  Only affects the ``sdljoy``
+    joystick provider.  Default is OFF (**-nosixaxis**)
 
 
 SDL Lightgun Mapping
diff --git a/docs/source/conf.py b/docs/source/conf.py
index 81385340ed9b6..15884fc9ff9f7 100644
--- a/docs/source/conf.py
+++ b/docs/source/conf.py
@@ -63,9 +63,9 @@
 # built documents.
 #
 # The short X.Y version.
-version = '0.251'
+version = '0.252'
 # The full version, including alpha/beta/rc tags.
-release = '0.251'
+release = '0.252'
 
 # The language for content autogenerated by Sphinx. Refer to documentation
 # for a list of supported languages.
diff --git a/src/emu/render.cpp b/src/emu/render.cpp
index 32aebcf8eb7e6..89281b11dd29b 100644
--- a/src/emu/render.cpp
+++ b/src/emu/render.cpp
@@ -1013,9 +1013,9 @@ void render_target::set_bounds(s32 width, s32 height, float pixel_aspect)
 	m_width = width;
 	m_height = height;
 	m_bounds.x0 = m_bounds.y0 = 0;
-	m_bounds.x1 = (float)width;
-	m_bounds.y1 = (float)height;
-	m_pixel_aspect = pixel_aspect != 0.0? pixel_aspect : 1.0;
+	m_bounds.x1 = float(width);
+	m_bounds.y1 = float(height);
+	m_pixel_aspect = pixel_aspect != 0.0F ? pixel_aspect : 1.0F;
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.cpp
index 715815399f9d0..62d0a1c5241dd 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.cpp
@@ -63,6 +63,19 @@ menu_about::~menu_about()
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_about::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu_textbox::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// make space for the title and revision
+	set_custom_space((line_height() * m_header.size()) + (tb_border() * 3.0F), 0.0F);
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -103,10 +116,8 @@ void menu_about::populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width,
 //  populate - populates the about modal
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_about::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_about::populate()
 {
-	// make space for the title and revision
-	customtop = (line_height() * m_header.size()) + (tb_border() * 3.0f);
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.h
index 13fc8e3e84fa9..5e394ba5d9e70 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/about.h
@@ -29,12 +29,13 @@ class menu_about : public menu_textbox
 	virtual ~menu_about() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<std::string> const m_header;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.cpp
index 4e3b15aecc80f..520026ea47900 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.cpp
@@ -66,6 +66,15 @@ menu_analog::~menu_analog()
 }
 
 
+void menu_analog::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// space for live display
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, (line_height() * m_visible_fields) + (tb_border() * 3.0f));
+}
+
+
 void menu_analog::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2)
 {
 	// work out how much space to use for field names
@@ -331,7 +340,7 @@ void menu_analog::handle(event const *ev)
 }
 
 
-void menu_analog::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_analog::populate()
 {
 	// loop over input ports
 	if (m_item_data.empty())
@@ -401,7 +410,7 @@ void menu_analog::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 
 	// space for live display
-	custombottom = (line_height() * m_visible_fields) + (tb_border() * 3.0f);
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, (line_height() * m_visible_fields) + (tb_border() * 3.0f));
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.h
index f6807947ce6b4..26f2580318ae9 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/analogipt.h
@@ -27,6 +27,7 @@ class menu_analog : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_analog() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
@@ -66,7 +67,7 @@ class menu_analog : public menu
 	using item_data_vector = std::vector<item_data>;
 	using field_data_vector = std::vector<field_data>;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void find_fields();
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.cpp
index b8656d3163cce..bc01cbc4a2a91 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.cpp
@@ -74,6 +74,14 @@ menu_audit::~menu_audit()
 }
 
 
+void menu_audit::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, (line_height() * 1.0F) + (tb_border() * 3.0F));
+}
+
+
 void menu_audit::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2)
 {
 	switch (m_phase)
@@ -107,7 +115,7 @@ void menu_audit::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float
 					container(),
 					std::move(text).str(),
 					text_layout::text_justify::CENTER,
-					0.5f, 0.5f,
+					0.5F, 0.5F,
 					ui().colors().background_color());
 		}
 		break;
@@ -120,7 +128,7 @@ void menu_audit::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float
 					ui().get_general_input_setting(IPT_UI_SELECT),
 					ui().get_general_input_setting(IPT_UI_CANCEL)),
 				text_layout::text_justify::CENTER,
-				0.5f, 0.5f,
+				0.5F, 0.5F,
 				UI_RED_COLOR);
 		break;
 	}
@@ -133,13 +141,12 @@ bool menu_audit::custom_ui_cancel()
 }
 
 
-void menu_audit::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_audit::populate()
 {
 	if (m_unavailable && (m_availablesorted.size() != m_unavailable))
 		item_append(util::string_format(_("Audit media for %1$u systems marked unavailable"), m_unavailable), 0, ITEMREF_START_FAST);
 	item_append(util::string_format(_("Audit media for all %1$u systems"), m_availablesorted.size()), 0, ITEMREF_START_FULL);
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR, 0);
-	custombottom = (line_height() * 1.0f) + (tb_border() * 3.0f);
 }
 
 void menu_audit::handle(event const *ev)
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.h
index de42c33b6d15c..040316edb5b10 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/auditmenu.h
@@ -29,13 +29,14 @@ class menu_audit : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_audit() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override;
 
 private:
 	enum class phase { CONFIRMATION, AUDIT, CANCELLATION };
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	bool do_audit();
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.cpp
index a0e4791dfb6d6..31dcf768e78bc 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.cpp
@@ -54,7 +54,7 @@ menu_barcode_reader::~menu_barcode_reader()
 //  populate - populates the barcode input menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_barcode_reader::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_barcode_reader::populate()
 {
 	if (current_device())
 	{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.h
index e171485cf792b..5f70fe65276a5 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/barcode.h
@@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ class menu_barcode_reader : public menu_device_control<barcode_reader_device> {
 	virtual ~menu_barcode_reader() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::string m_barcode_buffer;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.cpp
index 9aae81134ef4e..193a3c9efd668 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.cpp
@@ -111,7 +111,7 @@ menu_cheat::menu_cheat(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container) : menu
 	set_process_flags(PROCESS_LR_REPEAT);
 }
 
-void menu_cheat::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_cheat::populate()
 {
 	/* iterate over cheats */
 	std::string text;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.h
index c01ec15118964..ba0f144dbaf3f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/cheatopt.h
@@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ class menu_cheat : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_cheat() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.cpp
index f267d7fa725c0..ffeae2fff38b0 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.cpp
@@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ void menu_confswitch::menu_activated()
 }
 
 
-void menu_confswitch::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_confswitch::populate()
 {
 	// locate relevant fields if necessary
 	if (m_fields.empty())
@@ -320,6 +320,18 @@ menu_settings_dip_switches::~menu_settings_dip_switches()
 }
 
 
+void menu_settings_dip_switches::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu_confswitch::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(
+			0.0f,
+			m_visible_switch_groups
+				? ((m_visible_switch_groups * (DIP_SWITCH_HEIGHT * line_height())) + ((m_visible_switch_groups - 1) * (DIP_SWITCH_SPACING * line_height())) + (tb_border() * 3.0f))
+				: 0.0f);
+}
+
+
 void menu_settings_dip_switches::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x1, float y1, float x2, float y2)
 {
 	// catch if no DIP locations have to be drawn
@@ -470,10 +482,10 @@ bool menu_settings_dip_switches::custom_mouse_down()
 }
 
 
-void menu_settings_dip_switches::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_settings_dip_switches::populate()
 {
 	// let the base class add items
-	menu_confswitch::populate(customtop, custombottom);
+	menu_confswitch::populate();
 
 	// use up to about 70% of height for DIP switch display
 	if (active_switch_groups())
@@ -485,12 +497,12 @@ void menu_settings_dip_switches::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 			m_visible_switch_groups = unsigned(0.7f / (groupheight + groupspacing));
 		else
 			m_visible_switch_groups = active_switch_groups();
-		custombottom = (m_visible_switch_groups * groupheight) + ((m_visible_switch_groups - 1) * groupspacing) + (tb_border() * 3.0f);
+		set_custom_space(0.0f, (m_visible_switch_groups * groupheight) + ((m_visible_switch_groups - 1) * groupspacing) + (tb_border() * 3.0f));
 	}
 	else
 	{
 		m_visible_switch_groups = 0U;
-		custombottom = 0.0f;
+		set_custom_space(0.0f, 0.0f);
 	}
 }
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.h
index 598b0208085e5..9094fb2dc22b4 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/confswitch.h
@@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ class menu_confswitch : public menu
 	menu_confswitch(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, uint32_t type);
 
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 
 	field_vector const &fields() { return m_fields; }
 	switch_group_vector const &switch_groups() { return m_switch_groups; }
@@ -82,11 +82,12 @@ class menu_settings_dip_switches : public menu_confswitch
 	virtual ~menu_settings_dip_switches() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_mouse_down() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 
 	std::vector<float> m_switch_group_y;
 	unsigned m_visible_switch_groups;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.cpp
index 35c8bd29bd136..22740412ff9c7 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.cpp
@@ -209,7 +209,7 @@ void menu_custom_ui::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_custom_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_custom_ui::populate()
 {
 	uint32_t arrow_flags;
 	item_append(_("Fonts"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)FONT_MENU);
@@ -498,7 +498,7 @@ void menu_font_ui::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_font_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_font_ui::populate()
 {
 	// set filter arrow
 	uint32_t arrow_flags;
@@ -523,8 +523,17 @@ void menu_font_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(_("Infos text size"), string_format("%.2f", m_info_size), arrow_flags, (void *)(uintptr_t)INFOS_SIZE);
 
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
+}
 
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_font_ui::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -612,7 +621,7 @@ void menu_colors_ui::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_colors_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_colors_ui::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_("color-option", "Normal text"),                 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)MUI_TEXT_COLOR);
 	item_append(_("color-option", "Selected color"),              0, (void *)(uintptr_t)MUI_SELECTED_COLOR);
@@ -634,8 +643,17 @@ void menu_colors_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 
 	item_append(_("Restore default colors"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)MUI_RESTORE);
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_colors_ui::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -876,7 +894,7 @@ void menu_rgb_ui::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_rgb_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_rgb_ui::populate()
 {
 	// set filter arrow
 	std::string s_text = std::string(m_search).append("_");
@@ -917,8 +935,17 @@ void menu_rgb_ui::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 	item_append(_("Choose from palette"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)PALETTE_CHOOSE);
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_rgb_ui::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -1065,7 +1092,7 @@ void menu_palette_sel::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_palette_sel::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_palette_sel::populate()
 {
 	for (unsigned x = 0; x < std::size(s_palette); ++x)
 		item_append(_("color-preset", s_palette[x].first), s_palette[x].second, FLAG_COLOR_BOX, (void *)(uintptr_t)(x + 1));
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.h
index f720318d8547c..c009a4eccf0d0 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/custui.h
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@ class menu_custom_ui : public menu
 	virtual void menu_dismissed() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void find_languages();
@@ -57,11 +57,12 @@ class menu_font_ui : public menu
 	menu_font_ui(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, std::function<void (bool)> &&handler);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void menu_dismissed() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void list();
@@ -92,6 +93,7 @@ class menu_colors_ui : public menu
 	menu_colors_ui(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void menu_dismissed() override;
 
@@ -123,7 +125,7 @@ class menu_colors_ui : public menu
 		const char  *option;
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	s_color_table m_color_table[MUI_RESTORE];
@@ -140,6 +142,7 @@ class menu_rgb_ui : public menu
 	menu_rgb_ui(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, rgb_t *color, std::string &&title);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
@@ -152,7 +155,7 @@ class menu_rgb_ui : public menu
 		PALETTE_CHOOSE
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void inkey_special(const event *menu_event);
@@ -174,7 +177,7 @@ class menu_palette_sel : public menu
 	menu_palette_sel(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, rgb_t &_color);
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	static std::pair<const char *, const char *> const s_palette[];
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.cpp
index 2d65f2a848470..47ed1f2ca8f12 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.cpp
@@ -198,10 +198,19 @@ void menu_dats_view::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_dats_view::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_dats_view::populate()
 {
-	customtop = 2.0f * line_height() + 4.0f * tb_border();
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_dats_view::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu_textbox::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(2.0F * line_height() + 4.0F * tb_border(), line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -219,10 +228,10 @@ void menu_dats_view::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, f
 	maxwidth = std::max(maxwidth, width);
 
 	// compute our bounds
-	float x1 = 0.5f - 0.5f * maxwidth;
+	float x1 = 0.5F - 0.5F * maxwidth;
 	float x2 = x1 + maxwidth;
 	float y1 = origy1 - top;
-	float y2 = origy1 - 2.0f * tb_border() - line_height();
+	float y2 = origy1 - 2.0F * tb_border() - line_height();
 
 	// draw a box
 	ui().draw_outlined_box(container(), x1, y1, x2, y2, UI_GREEN_COLOR);
@@ -245,13 +254,13 @@ void menu_dats_view::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, f
 		maxwidth += width;
 	}
 
-	float space = (1.0f - maxwidth) / (m_items_list.size() * 2);
+	float space = (1.0F - maxwidth) / (m_items_list.size() * 2);
 
 	// compute our bounds
 	x1 -= lr_border();
 	x2 += lr_border();
 	y1 = y2 + tb_border();
-	y2 += line_height() + 2.0f * tb_border();
+	y2 += line_height() + 2.0F * tb_border();
 
 	// draw a box
 	ui().draw_outlined_box(container(), x1, y1, x2, y2, ui().colors().background_color());
@@ -283,7 +292,7 @@ void menu_dats_view::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, f
 		ui().draw_text_full(
 				container(),
 				elem.label,
-				x1, y1, 1.0f,
+				x1, y1, 1.0F,
 				text_layout::text_justify::LEFT, text_layout::word_wrapping::NEVER,
 				mame_ui_manager::NORMAL, fcolor, bcolor,
 				&width, nullptr,
@@ -298,13 +307,13 @@ void menu_dats_view::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, f
 		std::string const revision(util::string_format(_("Revision: %1$s"), m_items_list[m_actual].revision));
 		width = get_text_width(
 				revision,
-				0.0f, 0.0f, 1.0f,
+				0.0F, 0.0F, 1.0F,
 				text_layout::text_justify::CENTER, text_layout::word_wrapping::TRUNCATE);
 		width += 2 * lr_border();
 		maxwidth = std::max(origx2 - origx1, width);
 
 		// compute our bounds
-		x1 = 0.5f - 0.5f * maxwidth;
+		x1 = 0.5F - 0.5F * maxwidth;
 		x2 = x1 + maxwidth;
 		y1 = origy2 + tb_border();
 		y2 = origy2 + bottom;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.h
index 79b9bd8c1f66f..680e4f0f37ac2 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/datmenu.h
@@ -43,6 +43,7 @@ class menu_dats_view : public menu_textbox
 	static void add_info_text(text_layout &layout, std::string_view text, rgb_t color, float size = 1.0f);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_mouse_down() override;
 
@@ -58,7 +59,7 @@ class menu_dats_view : public menu_textbox
 		std::string revision;
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void get_data(std::string &buffer);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.cpp
index e03b8da904227..9886c4e941d78 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.cpp
@@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ void menu_device_config::populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float
 	width = layout->actual_width();
 }
 
-void menu_device_config::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_device_config::populate()
 {
 }
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.h
index 74c81a75809e4..05fef63240b49 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/devopt.h
@@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ class menu_device_config : public menu_textbox
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	device_slot_interface::slot_option const *const m_option;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.cpp
index 252b53a5aae26..2f77e98433c54 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.cpp
@@ -82,7 +82,7 @@ class menu_remove_folder : public menu
 	menu_remove_folder(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, int ref);
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::string  m_searchpath;
@@ -145,7 +145,7 @@ void menu_remove_folder::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_remove_folder::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_remove_folder::populate()
 {
 	int folders_count = 0;
 	for (auto & elem : m_folders)
@@ -165,12 +165,13 @@ class menu_add_change_folder : public menu
 	menu_add_change_folder(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, int ref, bool multipath);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override { return !m_search.empty(); }
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void update_search();
@@ -296,7 +297,7 @@ void menu_add_change_folder::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_add_change_folder::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_add_change_folder::populate()
 {
 	int folders_count = 0;
 
@@ -331,10 +332,18 @@ void menu_add_change_folder::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 		item_append(name, "[DIR]", 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)++folders_count);
 
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_add_change_folder::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
 	// configure the custom rendering
-	customtop = 2.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
-	custombottom = 1.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(2.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border(), 1.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -431,6 +440,7 @@ class menu_display_actual : public menu
 	}
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
@@ -440,7 +450,7 @@ class menu_display_actual : public menu
 		REMOVE,
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	bool is_multipath(std::string_view folder) const;
@@ -492,7 +502,7 @@ void menu_display_actual::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_display_actual::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_display_actual::populate()
 {
 	auto const &folder = f_folders[m_ref];
 	auto option = ui().options().get_entry(folder.option);
@@ -522,7 +532,18 @@ void menu_display_actual::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 
-	customtop = (m_folders.size() + 1) * line_height() + 6.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space((m_folders.size() + 1) * line_height() + 6.0f * tb_border(), 0.0f);
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_display_actual::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space((m_folders.size() + 1) * line_height() + 6.0f * tb_border(), 0.0f);
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -579,7 +600,7 @@ void menu_directory::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_directory::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_directory::populate()
 {
 	for (auto & elem : f_folders)
 		item_append(_("path-option", elem.name), 0, this); // need a non-null reference pointer - value is immaterial
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.h
index 644a71ba564b0..209fb7953fe4b 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/dirmenu.h
@@ -31,7 +31,7 @@ class menu_directory : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_directory() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.cpp
index 21622d3d179d6..341c19545babe 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.cpp
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ menu_confirm_save_as::~menu_confirm_save_as()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_confirm_save_as::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_confirm_save_as::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_("File Already Exists - Override?"), FLAG_DISABLE, nullptr);
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
@@ -133,6 +133,18 @@ menu_file_create::~menu_file_create()
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_file_create::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border(), 0.0F);
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  custom_render - perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -140,8 +152,8 @@ menu_file_create::~menu_file_create()
 void menu_file_create::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float origx1, float origy1, float origx2, float origy2)
 {
 	extra_text_render(top, bottom, origx1, origy1, origx2, origy2,
-		m_current_directory,
-		std::string_view());
+			m_current_directory,
+			std::string_view());
 }
 
 
@@ -149,7 +161,7 @@ void menu_file_create::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom,
 //  populate - populates the file creator menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_file_create::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_file_create::populate()
 {
 	std::string buffer;
 	const image_device_format *format;
@@ -178,8 +190,6 @@ void menu_file_create::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	// finish up the menu
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 	item_append(_("Create"), 0, ITEMREF_CREATE);
-
-	customtop = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 }
 
 
@@ -263,7 +273,7 @@ menu_select_format::~menu_select_format()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_format::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_format::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_("Select image format"), FLAG_DISABLE, nullptr);
 	for (unsigned int i = 0; i != m_formats.size(); i++)
@@ -322,7 +332,7 @@ menu_select_floppy_init::~menu_select_floppy_init()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_floppy_init::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_floppy_init::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_("Select initial contents"), FLAG_DISABLE, nullptr);
 	int id = 0;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.h
index 9d47605f5a7a3..629bd24f3ec7f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filecreate.h
@@ -31,7 +31,7 @@ class menu_confirm_save_as : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_confirm_save_as() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	bool *m_yes;
@@ -47,10 +47,11 @@ class menu_file_create : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_file_create() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	bool &                          m_ok;
@@ -71,7 +72,7 @@ class menu_select_format : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_select_format() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// internal state
@@ -90,7 +91,7 @@ class menu_select_floppy_init : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_select_floppy_init() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// internal state
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.cpp
index bbd38a9a411b5..81540b568b0d6 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.cpp
@@ -53,6 +53,18 @@ menu_file_manager::~menu_file_manager()
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_file_manager::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  custom_render - perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -101,7 +113,7 @@ void menu_file_manager::fill_image_line(device_image_interface *img, std::string
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_file_manager::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_file_manager::populate()
 {
 	std::string tmp_inst, tmp_name;
 
@@ -152,8 +164,6 @@ void menu_file_manager::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 
 	if (m_warnings.empty() || !missing_mandatory)
 		item_append(m_warnings.empty() ? _("Reset System") : _("Start System"), 0, (void *)1);
-
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.h
index 379912c8dfb3d..a2368e5a95903 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filemngr.h
@@ -30,10 +30,11 @@ class menu_file_manager : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_file_manager();
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void fill_image_line(device_image_interface *img, std::string &instance, std::string &filename);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.cpp
index 182e130dc6158..e12beadb8ebfa 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.cpp
@@ -72,6 +72,19 @@ menu_file_selector::~menu_file_selector()
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_file_selector::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// set up custom render proc
+	set_custom_space(line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border(), 0.0F);
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  custom_render - perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -347,7 +360,7 @@ void menu_file_selector::update_search()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_file_selector::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_file_selector::populate()
 {
 	const file_selector_entry *selected_entry = nullptr;
 
@@ -426,9 +439,6 @@ void menu_file_selector::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	// set the selection (if we have one)
 	if (selected_entry)
 		set_selection((void *)selected_entry);
-
-	// set up custom render proc
-	customtop = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 }
 
 
@@ -504,7 +514,7 @@ menu_select_rw::~menu_select_rw()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_rw::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_rw::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_("Select access mode"), FLAG_DISABLE, nullptr);
 	item_append(_("Read-only"), 0, itemref_from_result(result::READONLY));
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.h
index 8fa309c2fb942..71b2b17e3ad5d 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/filesel.h
@@ -44,6 +44,7 @@ class menu_file_selector : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_file_selector() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override { return !m_filename.empty(); }
 	virtual bool custom_mouse_down() override;
@@ -82,7 +83,7 @@ class menu_file_selector : public menu
 	std::string                     m_hover_directory;
 	std::string                     m_filename;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// methods
@@ -119,7 +120,7 @@ class menu_select_rw : public menu
 	static result result_from_itemref(void *itemref);
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// internal state
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.cpp
index 5708a4a832a02..174b8bab9e695 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.cpp
@@ -184,7 +184,7 @@ void menu_control_device_image::hook_load(const std::string &name)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_control_device_image::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_control_device_image::populate()
 {
 	throw emu_fatalerror("menu_control_device_image::populate: Shouldn't get here!");
 }
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.h
index 66a5ee5f81ae6..80b4548686abb 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/imgcntrl.h
@@ -68,7 +68,7 @@ class menu_control_device_image : public menu
 	std::string                     m_software_info_name;
 
 	// methods
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	void test_create(bool &can_create, bool &need_confirm);
 	void load_software_part();
 };
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.cpp
index ce4999bb0fac5..32575133a2425 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.cpp
@@ -548,7 +548,7 @@ void menu_game_info::populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &wi
 	width = layout->actual_width();
 }
 
-void menu_game_info::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_game_info::populate()
 {
 }
 
@@ -613,7 +613,7 @@ void menu_warn_info::populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &wi
 	width = layout->actual_width();
 }
 
-void menu_warn_info::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_warn_info::populate()
 {
 }
 
@@ -642,7 +642,7 @@ void menu_image_info::menu_activated()
 	reset(reset_options::REMEMBER_POSITION);
 }
 
-void menu_image_info::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_image_info::populate()
 {
 	for (device_image_interface &image : image_interface_enumerator(machine().root_device()))
 		image_info(&image);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.h
index 5c8f153d6ae5a..d36c476c7b5dc 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info.h
@@ -100,7 +100,7 @@ class menu_game_info : public menu_textbox
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -115,7 +115,7 @@ class menu_warn_info : public menu_textbox
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -130,7 +130,7 @@ class menu_image_info : public menu
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 	void image_info(device_image_interface *image);
 };
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.cpp
index 1aadb85deb90c..018c3bc9b61d6 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.cpp
@@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ menu_pty_info::~menu_pty_info()
 {
 }
 
-void menu_pty_info::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_pty_info::populate()
 {
 	for (device_pty_interface &pty : pty_interface_enumerator(machine().root_device()))
 	{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.h
index 16f65435be27b..af384a5a92df9 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/info_pty.h
@@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ class menu_pty_info : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_pty_info() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.cpp
index 5c1a7a8931a9e..71d09a0b2800a 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.cpp
@@ -27,6 +27,7 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 	menu_input_device(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, input_device &device)
 		: menu(mui, container)
 		, m_device(device)
+		, m_have_analog(false)
 	{
 		set_heading(
 				util::string_format(_("menu-inputdev", "%1$s (%2$s %3$d)"),
@@ -36,25 +37,54 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 	}
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override
+	{
+		menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+		set_custom_space(0.0F, (line_height() * (m_have_analog ? 2.0F : 1.0F)) + (tb_border() * 3.0F));
+	}
+
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override
 	{
 		if (selectedref)
 		{
+			// get the complete token for the highlighted input
 			input_device_item &input = *reinterpret_cast<input_device_item *>(selectedref);
+			input_code code = input.code();
+			if (!machine().input().device_class(m_device.devclass()).multi())
+				code.set_device_index(0);
+			std::string const token = machine().input().code_to_token(code);
+
+			// measure the name of the token string
+			float const tokenwidth = (std::min)(get_string_width(token) + (gutter_width() * 2.0F), 1.0F);
+			float const boxwidth = (std::max)(tokenwidth, x2 - x);
+			rgb_t const fgcolor(ui().colors().text_color());
+
+			// draw the outer box
+			ui().draw_outlined_box(
+					container(),
+					(1.0F - boxwidth) * 0.5F, y2 + tb_border(),
+					(1.0F + boxwidth) * 0.5F, y2 + bottom,
+					ui().colors().background_color());
+
+			// show the token
+			draw_text_normal(
+					token,
+					(1.0F - boxwidth) * 0.5F, y2 + (tb_border() * 2.0F), boxwidth,
+					text_layout::text_justify::CENTER, text_layout::word_wrapping::TRUNCATE,
+					fgcolor);
+
+			// first show the token
 			switch (input.itemclass())
 			{
 			case ITEM_CLASS_ABSOLUTE:
 			case ITEM_CLASS_RELATIVE:
 				{
-					// draw the outer box
-					ui().draw_outlined_box(container(), x, y2 + tb_border(), x2, y2 + bottom, ui().colors().background_color());
-
 					// draw the indicator
-					rgb_t const fgcolor(ui().colors().text_color());
-					float const indleft = x + lr_border();
-					float const indright = x2 - lr_border();
-					float const indtop = y2 + (tb_border() * 2.0F) + (line_height() * 0.2F);
-					float const indbottom = y2 + (tb_border() * 2.0F) + (line_height() * 0.8F);
+					float const indleft = x + gutter_width();
+					float const indright = x2 - gutter_width();
+					float const indtop = y2 + (tb_border() * 2.0F) + (line_height() * 1.2F);
+					float const indbottom = y2 + (tb_border() * 2.0F) + (line_height() * 1.8F);
 					float const indcentre = (x + x2) * 0.5F;
 					s32 const value = (input.itemclass() == ITEM_CLASS_ABSOLUTE) ? input.read_as_absolute(ITEM_MODIFIER_NONE) : input.read_as_relative(ITEM_MODIFIER_NONE);
 					if (0 < value)
@@ -81,12 +111,11 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 	}
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override
+	virtual void populate() override
 	{
 		item_append(_("menu-inputdev", "Copy Device ID"), 0U, nullptr);
 		item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 
-		bool haveanalog = false;
 		for (input_item_id itemid = ITEM_ID_FIRST_VALID; m_device.maxitem() >= itemid; ++itemid)
 		{
 			input_device_item *const input = m_device.item(itemid);
@@ -96,7 +125,7 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 				{
 				case ITEM_CLASS_ABSOLUTE:
 				case ITEM_CLASS_RELATIVE:
-					haveanalog = true;
+					m_have_analog = true;
 					break;
 				default:
 					break;
@@ -107,8 +136,7 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 
 		item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 
-		if (haveanalog)
-			custombottom = line_height() + (tb_border() * 3.0F);
+		set_custom_space(0.0F, (line_height() * (m_have_analog ? 2.0F : 1.0F)) + (tb_border() * 3.0F));
 	}
 
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override
@@ -148,6 +176,7 @@ class menu_input_device : public menu
 	}
 
 	input_device &m_device;
+	bool m_have_analog;
 };
 
 } // anonymous namespace
@@ -166,7 +195,7 @@ menu_input_devices::~menu_input_devices()
 }
 
 
-void menu_input_devices::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_devices::populate()
 {
 	// iterate input device classes and devices within each class
 	bool found = false;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.h
index cb81caaaf4738..39d2afda4e572 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputdevices.h
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ class menu_input_devices : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_input_devices();
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.cpp
index 2fbc8aeb95d2b..387d3db742388 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.cpp
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@ menu_input_groups::~menu_input_groups()
 {
 }
 
-void menu_input_groups::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_groups::populate()
 {
 	// build up the menu
 	item_append(_("User Interface"), 0, (void *)uintptr_t(IPG_UI + 1));
@@ -82,7 +82,7 @@ void menu_input_general::menu_activated()
 	reset(reset_options::REMEMBER_POSITION);
 }
 
-void menu_input_general::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_general::populate()
 {
 	if (data.empty())
 	{
@@ -130,7 +130,7 @@ void menu_input_general::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	}
 
 	// populate the menu in a standard fashion
-	populate_sorted(customtop, custombottom);
+	populate_sorted();
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 }
 
@@ -164,7 +164,7 @@ void menu_input_specific::menu_activated()
 	reset(reset_options::REMEMBER_POSITION);
 }
 
-void menu_input_specific::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_specific::populate()
 {
 	if (data.empty())
 	{
@@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ void menu_input_specific::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 
 	// populate the menu in a standard fashion
 	if (!data.empty())
-		populate_sorted(customtop, custombottom);
+		populate_sorted();
 	else
 		item_append(_("[no assignable inputs are enabled]"), FLAG_DISABLE, nullptr);
 
@@ -311,6 +311,16 @@ void menu_input::toggle_none_default(input_seq &selected_seq, input_seq &origina
 		selected_seq.reset();
 }
 
+
+void menu_input::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// leave space for showing the input sequence below the menu
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, 2.0F * line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
+}
+
+
 void menu_input::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x1, float y1, float x2, float y2)
 {
 	if (pollingitem)
@@ -554,7 +564,7 @@ void menu_input::handle(event const *ev)
 //  menu from them
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_input::populate_sorted(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input::populate_sorted()
 {
 	const char *nameformat[INPUT_TYPE_TOTAL] = { nullptr };
 
@@ -608,9 +618,6 @@ void menu_input::populate_sorted(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	appendprompt = util::string_format(_("Press %1$s to append\n"), ui().get_general_input_setting(IPT_UI_SELECT));
 	clearprompt = util::string_format(_("Press %1$s to clear\n"), ui().get_general_input_setting(IPT_UI_CLEAR));
 	defaultprompt = util::string_format(_("Press %1$s to restore default\n"), ui().get_general_input_setting(IPT_UI_CLEAR));
-
-	// leave space for showing the input sequence below the menu
-	custombottom = 2.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 }
 
 } // namespace ui
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.h
index c651a8cc3d357..d512b6703459f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputmap.h
@@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ class menu_input_groups : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_input_groups() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -64,7 +64,10 @@ class menu_input : public menu
 
 	menu_input(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container);
 
-	void populate_sorted(float &customtop, float &custombottom);
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
+	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x1, float y1, float x2, float y2) override;
+
+	void populate_sorted();
 	void toggle_none_default(input_seq &selected_seq, input_seq &original_seq, const input_seq &selected_defseq);
 
 	data_vector data;
@@ -81,7 +84,6 @@ class menu_input : public menu
 	osd_ticks_t modified_ticks;
 	input_seq starting_seq;
 
-	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x1, float y1, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 	virtual void update_input(input_item_data &seqchangeditem) = 0;
 };
@@ -97,7 +99,7 @@ class menu_input_general : public menu_input
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void update_input(input_item_data &seqchangeditem) override;
 
 	const int group;
@@ -114,7 +116,7 @@ class menu_input_specific : public menu_input
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void update_input(input_item_data &seqchangeditem) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.cpp
index ff433e72e7eb3..e4802e8de8ff5 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.cpp
@@ -87,7 +87,7 @@ void menu_input_options::menu_activated()
 }
 
 
-void menu_input_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_options::populate()
 {
 	bool inputmap, analog, toggle;
 	scan_inputs(machine(), inputmap, analog, toggle);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.h
index 11432ce5035b8..7cff7713537ea 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputopts.h
@@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ class menu_input_options : public menu
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.cpp
index b21cd572c1d86..e86d41b70311e 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.cpp
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@ void menu_input_toggles::menu_activated()
 }
 
 
-void menu_input_toggles::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_input_toggles::populate()
 {
 	// find toggle fields
 	if (m_fields.empty())
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.h
index 7a3016f62541a..b4d48908d962f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/inputtoggle.h
@@ -31,7 +31,7 @@ class menu_input_toggles : public menu
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<std::reference_wrapper<ioport_field> > m_fields;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.cpp
index 7efebefd64c49..931ff96f04605 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.cpp
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@ void menu_keyboard_mode::menu_activated()
 	reset(reset_options::REMEMBER_POSITION);
 }
 
-void menu_keyboard_mode::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_keyboard_mode::populate()
 {
 	natural_keyboard &natkbd(machine().natkeyboard());
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.h
index 36371f5711c8d..478d97a5a1138 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/keyboard.h
@@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ class menu_keyboard_mode : public menu
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.cpp
index 0ef893dfd1ca1..7d53266e65b4b 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.cpp
@@ -108,7 +108,7 @@ void menu_main::menu_activated()
     populate - populate main menu items
 -------------------------------------------------*/
 
-void menu_main::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_main::populate()
 {
 	m_phase = machine().phase();
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.h
index 6671dd9f554db..de596716da686 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/mainmenu.h
@@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ class menu_main : public menu
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	machine_phase m_phase;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.cpp
index ba5767c794a01..69e7556398566 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.cpp
@@ -373,6 +373,18 @@ void menu::item_append_on_off(const std::string &text, bool state, uint32_t flag
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  set_custom_space - set space required for
+//  custom rendering above and below menu
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu::set_custom_space(float top, float bottom)
+{
+	m_customtop = top;
+	m_custombottom = bottom;
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  process - process a menu, drawing it
 //  and returning any interesting events
@@ -1260,7 +1272,7 @@ void menu::do_handle()
 				item_append(_("Return to Previous Menu"), 0, nullptr);
 
 			// let implementation add other items
-			populate(m_customtop, m_custombottom);
+			populate();
 		}
 		catch (...)
 		{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.h
index 85a2f935d868c..4126fa66cb5f5 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/menu.h
@@ -70,6 +70,9 @@ class menu
 	void item_append(menu_item_type type, uint32_t flags = 0);
 	void item_append_on_off(const std::string &text, bool state, uint32_t flags, void *ref, menu_item_type type = menu_item_type::UNKNOWN);
 
+	// set space required for drawing extra content
+	void set_custom_space(float top, float bottom);
+
 	// reset the menus, clearing everything
 	static void stack_reset(mame_ui_manager &ui) { get_global_state(ui).stack_reset(); }
 
@@ -422,7 +425,7 @@ class menu
 	void set_special_main_menu(bool disable);
 
 	// to be implemented in derived classes
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) = 0;
+	virtual void populate() = 0;
 
 	// to be implemented in derived classes
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) = 0;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.cpp
index 057df11e17db4..9839d59a96654 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.cpp
@@ -54,7 +54,7 @@ menu_bios_selection::menu_bios_selection(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container
 	set_heading(_("BIOS Selection"));
 }
 
-void menu_bios_selection::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_bios_selection::populate()
 {
 	// cycle through all devices for this system
 	for (device_t &device : device_enumerator(machine().root_device()))
@@ -159,7 +159,7 @@ menu_network_devices::~menu_network_devices()
     network device menu
 -------------------------------------------------*/
 
-void menu_network_devices::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_network_devices::populate()
 {
 	/* cycle through all devices for this system */
 	for (device_network_interface &network : network_interface_enumerator(machine().root_device()))
@@ -268,7 +268,7 @@ void menu_bookkeeping::populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &
 	width = layout->actual_width();
 }
 
-void menu_bookkeeping::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_bookkeeping::populate()
 {
 }
 
@@ -397,7 +397,7 @@ menu_crosshair::menu_crosshair(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container
 	set_heading(_("menu-crosshair", "Crosshair Options"));
 }
 
-void menu_crosshair::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_crosshair::populate()
 {
 	if (m_data.empty())
 	{
@@ -701,7 +701,7 @@ void menu_export::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_export::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_export::populate()
 {
 	// add options items
 	item_append(_("Export list in XML format (like -listxml)"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)1);
@@ -811,7 +811,7 @@ void menu_machine_configure::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_machine_configure::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_machine_configure::populate()
 {
 	// add options items
 	item_append(_("BIOS"), FLAG_DISABLE | FLAG_UI_HEADING, nullptr);
@@ -930,7 +930,7 @@ void menu_plugins_configure::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_plugins_configure::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_plugins_configure::populate()
 {
 	plugin_options const &plugins = mame_machine_manager::instance()->plugins();
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.h
index 22a2d1dc135ae..ab763b7ed26d7 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/miscmenu.h
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@ class menu_network_devices : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_network_devices();
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ class menu_bookkeeping : public menu_textbox
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	attotime prevtime;
@@ -81,7 +81,7 @@ class menu_crosshair : public menu
 		std::string next_name;
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<crosshair_item_data> m_data;
@@ -96,7 +96,7 @@ class menu_bios_selection : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_bios_selection();
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -112,7 +112,7 @@ class menu_export : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_export();
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<const game_driver*> m_list;
@@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ class menu_machine_configure : public menu
 		LAST = ADVANCED
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void setup_bios();
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@ class menu_plugins_configure : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_plugins_configure();
 
 protected:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.cpp
index bc9757a44a4e4..91e5fb52adb86 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.cpp
@@ -71,7 +71,7 @@ void menu_simple_game_options::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_simple_game_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_simple_game_options::populate()
 {
 	item_append(_(submenu::video_options()[0].description), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)DISPLAY_MENU);
 	item_append(_("Sound Options"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)SOUND_MENU);
@@ -85,8 +85,6 @@ void menu_simple_game_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(_("Input Devices"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)INPUTDEV_MENU);
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 	item_append(_("Save Settings"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)SAVE_CONFIG);
-
-	custombottom = 2.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -174,7 +172,7 @@ void menu_game_options::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_game_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_game_options::populate()
 {
 	// set filter arrow
 	std::string fbuff;
@@ -198,7 +196,7 @@ void menu_game_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	item_append(_("Configure Folders"), 0, (void *)(uintptr_t)CONF_DIR);
 
 	// add the options that don't relate to the UI
-	menu_simple_game_options::populate(customtop, custombottom);
+	menu_simple_game_options::populate();
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.h
index b10d6601926e2..d1779ede52a2d 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/optsmenu.h
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ class menu_simple_game_options : public menu
 
 protected:
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 
 	void handle_item_event(event const &menu_event);
 
@@ -63,7 +63,7 @@ class menu_game_options : public menu_simple_game_options
 
 protected:
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 
 	void handle_item_event(event const &menu_event);
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.cpp
index 08f7f84a75267..3ad7a2ec2c34e 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.cpp
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@ menu_plugin::menu_plugin(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container) :
 	set_heading(_("Plugin Options"));
 }
 
-void menu_plugin::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_plugin::populate()
 {
 	for (auto &curplugin : m_plugins)
 		item_append(curplugin, 0, (void *)curplugin.c_str());
@@ -125,7 +125,7 @@ void menu_plugin_opt::handle(event const *ev)
 	}
 }
 
-void menu_plugin_opt::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_plugin_opt::populate()
 {
 	std::vector<std::tuple<std::string, std::string, std::string>> menu_list;
 	std::string flags;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.h
index 15196c1ca2de9..3779cf130c258 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/pluginopt.h
@@ -32,7 +32,7 @@ class menu_plugin : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_plugin();
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<std::string> &m_plugins;
@@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ class menu_plugin_opt : public menu
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override { return true; }
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::string const m_menu;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.cpp
index bb26f7e629009..29f12143831a1 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.cpp
@@ -45,7 +45,7 @@ void menu_confirm_quit::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom
 }
 
 
-void menu_confirm_quit::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_confirm_quit::populate()
 {
 }
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.h
index 81ca61e2892de..206ef1983ead5 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/quitmenu.h
@@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ class menu_confirm_quit : public autopause_menu<>
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.cpp
index 71643f4bf4ea1..b3a579cd049d4 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.cpp
@@ -95,7 +95,7 @@ void menu_selector::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_selector::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_selector::populate()
 {
 	set_heading(util::string_format(_("menu-selector", "%1$s - Search: %2$s_"), m_title, m_search));
 
@@ -124,10 +124,20 @@ void menu_selector::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	}
 
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
 	m_initial = -1;
 }
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_selector::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
+}
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.h
index 17fdb97234300..8d504a42e2d03 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selector.h
@@ -38,13 +38,14 @@ class menu_selector : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_selector() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override { return !m_search.empty(); }
 
 private:
 	enum { VISIBLE_SEARCH_ITEMS = 200 };
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void find_matches(const char *str);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.cpp
index 7b268f7ba972d..047e6f6f721b2 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.cpp
@@ -135,6 +135,9 @@ void menu_select_game::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float
 	menu_select_launch::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
 	m_icons.clear();
+
+	// configure the custom rendering
+	set_custom_space(3.0F * line_height() + 5.0F * tb_border(), 4.0F * line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
 }
 
 
@@ -346,7 +349,7 @@ void menu_select_game::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_game::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_game::populate()
 {
 	for (auto &icon : m_icons) // TODO: why is this here?  maybe better on resize or setting change?
 		icon.second.texture.reset();
@@ -468,10 +471,6 @@ void menu_select_game::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 		m_skip_main_items = 0;
 	}
 
-	// configure the custom rendering
-	customtop = 3.0f * line_height() + 5.0f * tb_border();
-	custombottom = 4.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
-
 	// reselect prior game launched, if any
 	if (old_item_selected != -1)
 	{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.h
index 1f28052ff882c..af1dad248ac13 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selgame.h
@@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ class menu_select_game : public menu_select_launch
 
 	static bool s_first_start;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// drawing
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selmenu.cpp
index 7cceaa6ccb8d8..f24eb7b3581e1 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selmenu.cpp
@@ -172,7 +172,7 @@ class menu_select_launch::software_parts : public menu
 	virtual ~software_parts() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	ui_software_info const &m_uiinfo;
@@ -189,7 +189,7 @@ class menu_select_launch::bios_selection : public menu
 private:
 	bios_selection(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, s_bios &&biosname, void const *driver, bool software, bool inlist);
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	void const  *m_driver;
@@ -280,7 +280,7 @@ menu_select_launch::software_parts::~software_parts()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_launch::software_parts::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_launch::software_parts::populate()
 {
 	std::vector<s_parts::const_iterator> parts;
 	parts.reserve(m_parts.size());
@@ -350,7 +350,7 @@ menu_select_launch::bios_selection::~bios_selection()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_launch::bios_selection::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_launch::bios_selection::populate()
 {
 	for (auto &elem : m_bios)
 		item_append(elem.first, 0, (void *)&elem.first);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.cpp
index 56590e9e7eef1..50822545dd110 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.cpp
@@ -525,6 +525,18 @@ void menu_select_software::handle(event const *ev)
 	draw_error_text();
 }
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_select_software::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu_select_launch::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// configure the custom rendering
+	set_custom_space(4.0F * line_height() + 5.0F * tb_border(), 4.0F * line_height() + 4.0F * tb_border());
+}
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  menu_deactivated
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -545,7 +557,7 @@ void menu_select_software::menu_deactivated()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_select_software::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_select_software::populate()
 {
 	for (auto &icon : m_data->icons()) // TODO: why is this here?  maybe better on resize or setting change?
 		icon.second.texture.reset();
@@ -605,10 +617,7 @@ void menu_select_software::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 				m_displaylist[curitem].get().parentname.empty() ? 0 : FLAG_INVERT, (void *)&m_displaylist[curitem].get());
 	}
 
-	// configure the custom rendering
 	m_skip_main_items = 0;
-	customtop = 4.0f * line_height() + 5.0f * tb_border();
-	custombottom = 4.0f * line_height() + 4.0f * tb_border();
 
 	if (old_software != -1)
 	{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.h
index 4b22ebc6eafa5..1ac874ac93a2c 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/selsoft.h
@@ -33,6 +33,8 @@ class menu_select_software : public menu_select_launch
 	virtual ~menu_select_software() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
+
 	virtual void menu_deactivated() override;
 
 private:
@@ -42,7 +44,7 @@ class menu_select_software : public menu_select_launch
 	struct search_item;
 	class machine_data;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// drawing
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.cpp
index be3e056c97f18..9fd0b5bb177ab 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.cpp
@@ -236,7 +236,7 @@ void simple_menu_select_game::inkey_special(const event &menu_event)
 //  populate - populate the game select menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void simple_menu_select_game::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void simple_menu_select_game::populate()
 {
 	int matchcount;
 	int curitem;
@@ -282,10 +282,19 @@ void simple_menu_select_game::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	{
 		item_append(_("Return to Previous Menu"), 0, nullptr);
 	}
+}
+
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void simple_menu_select_game::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
 	// configure the custom rendering
-	customtop = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
-	custombottom = 4.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border(), 4.0f * line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.h
index e5ea310c7ecf1..4f1effa43051d 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/simpleselgame.h
@@ -29,13 +29,14 @@ class simple_menu_select_game : public menu
 	static void force_game_select(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container);
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual bool custom_ui_cancel() override { return !m_search.empty(); }
 
 private:
 	enum { VISIBLE_GAMES_IN_LIST = 15 };
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// internal methods
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.cpp
index e95789500ca9f..e162ebeee1a1c 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.cpp
@@ -160,7 +160,7 @@ void menu_sliders::handle(event const *ev)
 //  menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_sliders::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_sliders::populate()
 {
 	std::string tempstring;
 
@@ -224,8 +224,18 @@ void menu_sliders::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 		if (ref)
 			set_selection(ref);
 	}
+}
+
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_sliders::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
-	custombottom = 2.0f * line_height() + 2.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(0.0f, 2.0f * line_height() + 2.0f * tb_border());
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.h
index 99a5c6e9cfbef..645169189cc03 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sliders.h
@@ -25,12 +25,13 @@ class menu_sliders : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_sliders() override;
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void menu_activated() override;
 	virtual void menu_deactivated() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	bool const m_menuless_mode;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.cpp
index f1419122f9810..1b30b6120c199 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.cpp
@@ -171,7 +171,7 @@ bool menu_slot_devices::try_refresh_current_options()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_slot_devices::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_slot_devices::populate()
 {
 	// we need to keep our own copy of the machine_config because we
 	// can change this out from under the caller
@@ -202,9 +202,19 @@ void menu_slot_devices::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	}
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
 	item_append(_("Reset System"), 0, ITEMREF_RESET);
+}
+
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_slot_devices::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
 
 	// leave space for the name of the current option at the bottom
-	custombottom = line_height() + 3.0f * tb_border();
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, line_height() + 3.0F * tb_border());
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.h
index 449d22627aa31..6dae4ce062aae 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/slotopt.h
@@ -25,6 +25,10 @@ class menu_slot_devices : public menu
 	menu_slot_devices(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container);
 	virtual ~menu_slot_devices() override;
 
+protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
+	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float origx1, float origy1, float origx2, float origy2) override;
+
 private:
 	enum class step_t
 	{
@@ -32,8 +36,7 @@ class menu_slot_devices : public menu
 		PREVIOUS
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
-	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float origx1, float origy1, float origx2, float origy2) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	device_slot_interface::slot_option const *get_current_option(device_slot_interface &slot) const;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.cpp
index 136cbcf98f47e..f389c128c078b 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.cpp
@@ -139,7 +139,7 @@ void menu_sound_options::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_sound_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_sound_options::populate()
 {
 	uint32_t arrow_flags = get_arrow_flags(uint16_t(0), uint16_t(std::size(m_sound_rate) - 1), m_cur_rates);
 	m_sample_rate = m_sound_rate[m_cur_rates];
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.h
index 48d85b7d1a577..6e79d4f6faae6 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/sndmenu.h
@@ -38,7 +38,7 @@ class menu_sound_options : public menu
 		ENABLE_SAMPLES
 	};
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	uint16_t          m_cur_rates;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.cpp
index 3e3c460f20314..49412c8a24494 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.cpp
@@ -118,7 +118,7 @@ menu_load_save_state_base::~menu_load_save_state_base()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_load_save_state_base::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_load_save_state_base::populate()
 {
 	// build the "filename to code" map, if we have not already (if it were not for the
 	// possibility that the system keyboard can be changed at runtime, I would put this
@@ -224,9 +224,6 @@ void menu_load_save_state_base::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	if (is_one_shot())
 		item_append(_("Cancel"), 0, nullptr);
 
-	// set up custom render proc
-	custombottom = (2.0f * line_height()) + (3.0f * tb_border());
-
 	// get ready to poll inputs
 	m_switch_poller.reset();
 	m_keys_released = false;
@@ -420,6 +417,19 @@ void menu_load_save_state_base::handle_keys(uint32_t flags, int &iptkey)
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_load_save_state_base::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	autopause_menu<>::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	// set up custom render proc
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, (2.0F * line_height()) + (3.0F * tb_border()));
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  custom_render - perform our special rendering
 //-------------------------------------------------
@@ -446,14 +456,14 @@ void menu_load_save_state_base::custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, floa
 	{
 		draw_text_box(
 				std::begin(text), std::next(std::begin(text), count),
-				origx1, origx2, origy2 + tb_border(), origy2 + (count * line_height()) + (3.0f * tb_border()),
+				origx1, origx2, origy2 + tb_border(), origy2 + (count * line_height()) + (3.0F * tb_border()),
 				text_layout::text_justify::CENTER, text_layout::word_wrapping::NEVER, false,
 				ui().colors().text_color(), ui().colors().background_color());
 	}
 
 	// draw the confirmation prompt if necessary
 	if (!m_confirm_prompt.empty())
-		ui().draw_text_box(container(), m_confirm_prompt, text_layout::text_justify::CENTER, 0.5f, 0.5f, ui().colors().background_color());
+		ui().draw_text_box(container(), m_confirm_prompt, text_layout::text_justify::CENTER, 0.5F, 0.5F, ui().colors().background_color());
 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.h
index c9594cf25cfd3..8d982678d7d96 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/state.h
@@ -36,9 +36,10 @@ class menu_load_save_state_base : public autopause_menu<>
 			bool must_exist,
 			bool one_shot);
 
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 	virtual void handle_keys(uint32_t flags, int &iptkey) override;
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	virtual void process_file(std::string &&file_name) = 0;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.cpp
index 3450504fc4cf3..82eb23d6a17f7 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.cpp
@@ -285,7 +285,7 @@ void submenu::handle(event const *ev)
 						const char *minimum = sm_option.entry->minimum();
 						const char *maximum = sm_option.entry->maximum();
 						f_step = atof(minimum);
-						if (f_step <= 0.0f) {
+						if (f_step <= 0.0F) {
 							int pmin = getprecisionchr(minimum);
 							int pmax = getprecisionchr(maximum);
 							tmptxt = '1' + std::string((pmin > pmax) ? pmin : pmax, '0');
@@ -339,7 +339,7 @@ void submenu::handle(event const *ev)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void submenu::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void submenu::populate()
 {
 	// add options
 	for (auto sm_option = m_options.begin(); sm_option < m_options.end(); ++sm_option)
@@ -405,7 +405,7 @@ void submenu::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 					}
 					else
 					{
-						f_min = 0.0f;
+						f_min = 0.0F;
 						f_max = std::numeric_limits<float>::max();
 					}
 					arrow_flags = get_arrow_flags(f_min, f_max, f_cur);
@@ -446,7 +446,17 @@ void submenu::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
 	}
 
 	item_append(menu_item_type::SEPARATOR);
-	custombottom = ui().get_line_height() + (3.0f * tb_border());
+}
+
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void submenu::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	set_custom_space(0.0F, line_height() + (3.0F * tb_border()));
 }
 
 //-------------------------------------------------
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.h
index fdcbfa2c7c2f7..c307f2209242c 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/submenu.h
@@ -60,10 +60,11 @@ class submenu : public menu
 	//static std::vector<option> export_options();
 
 protected:
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual void custom_render(void *selectedref, float top, float bottom, float x, float y, float x2, float y2) override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	std::vector<option> m_options;
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.cpp
index 5d3c74f867683..da0ec08cbac7f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.cpp
@@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ menu_software_parts::~menu_software_parts()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_software_parts::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_software_parts::populate()
 {
 	m_entries.clear();
 
@@ -243,7 +243,7 @@ void menu_software_list::update_search(void *selectedref)
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_software_list::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_software_list::populate()
 {
 	// build up the list of entries for the menu
 	if (m_entrylist.empty())
@@ -368,7 +368,7 @@ menu_software::~menu_software()
 //  populate
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_software::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_software::populate()
 {
 	bool have_compatible = false;
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.h
index b77d8090d7bec..ce50ad2cfae71 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/swlist.h
@@ -43,7 +43,7 @@ class menu_software_parts : public menu
 	};
 	using entry_list = std::list<software_part_menu_entry>;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// variables
@@ -88,7 +88,7 @@ class menu_software_list : public menu
 	std::string                     m_search;
 	bool                            m_ordered_by_shortname;
 
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	// functions
@@ -104,7 +104,7 @@ class menu_software : public menu
 public:
 	menu_software(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &container, const char *interface, software_list_device **result);
 	virtual ~menu_software() override;
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 private:
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.cpp
index 5eb505712a43a..f41a52addd56a 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.cpp
@@ -56,7 +56,7 @@ menu_tape_control::~menu_tape_control()
 //  populate - populates the main tape control menu
 //-------------------------------------------------
 
-void menu_tape_control::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_tape_control::populate()
 {
 	if (current_device())
 	{
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.h
index 1117e88ef5e89..5a7fba62b64da 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/tapectrl.h
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ class menu_tape_control : public menu_device_control<cassette_image_device>
 	virtual ~menu_tape_control() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	static void get_time_string(std::string &dest, cassette_image_device *cassette, int *curpos, int *endpos);
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.cpp
index ac3f73376685a..9c6dfded6068f 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.cpp
@@ -91,6 +91,18 @@ void menu_textbox::handle_key(int key)
 }
 
 
+//-------------------------------------------------
+//  recompute_metrics - recompute metrics
+//-------------------------------------------------
+
+void menu_textbox::recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect)
+{
+	menu::recompute_metrics(width, height, aspect);
+
+	m_layout = std::nullopt;
+}
+
+
 //-------------------------------------------------
 //  custom_mouse_scroll - handle scroll events
 //-------------------------------------------------
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.h
index bdbb63f934a62..724134a482bc9 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/textbox.h
@@ -31,6 +31,7 @@ class menu_textbox : public menu
 
 	virtual void populate_text(std::optional<text_layout> &layout, float &width, int &lines) = 0;
 
+	virtual void recompute_metrics(uint32_t width, uint32_t height, float aspect) override;
 	virtual bool custom_mouse_scroll(int lines) override;
 
 private:
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/utils.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/utils.cpp
index 6a3d95d2139e9..aaafd1944badb 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/utils.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/utils.cpp
@@ -403,7 +403,7 @@ class composite_filter_impl_base : public simple_filter_impl_base<Base, Type>
 			ADD_FILTER
 		};
 
-		virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+		virtual void populate() override;
 		virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 		bool set_filter_type(unsigned pos, typename Base::type n)
@@ -529,7 +529,7 @@ void composite_filter_impl_base<Impl, Base, Type>::show_ui(
 
 
 template <class Impl, class Base, typename Base::type Type>
-void composite_filter_impl_base<Impl, Base, Type>::menu_configure::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void composite_filter_impl_base<Impl, Base, Type>::menu_configure::populate()
 {
 	// add items for each active filter
 	unsigned i = 0;
@@ -995,7 +995,7 @@ class category_machine_filter : public simple_filter_impl_base<machine_filter, m
 			INCLUDE_CLONES
 		};
 
-		virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+		virtual void populate() override;
 		virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 		category_machine_filter &m_parent;
@@ -1047,7 +1047,7 @@ void category_machine_filter::show_ui(mame_ui_manager &mui, render_container &co
 }
 
 
-void category_machine_filter::menu_configure::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void category_machine_filter::menu_configure::populate()
 {
 	inifile_manager const &mgr(mame_machine_manager::instance()->inifile());
 	unsigned const filecnt(mgr.get_file_count());
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.cpp b/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.cpp
index 67881db6cd0fb..0aafba84d2651 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.cpp
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.cpp
@@ -46,7 +46,7 @@ menu_video_targets::~menu_video_targets()
 {
 }
 
-void menu_video_targets::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_video_targets::populate()
 {
 	// find the targets
 	for (unsigned targetnum = 0; ; targetnum++)
@@ -113,7 +113,7 @@ menu_video_options::~menu_video_options()
 {
 }
 
-void menu_video_options::populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom)
+void menu_video_options::populate()
 {
 	uintptr_t ref;
 
diff --git a/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.h b/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.h
index b296cad06abf9..cea2f231073c7 100644
--- a/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.h
+++ b/src/frontend/mame/ui/videoopt.h
@@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ class menu_video_targets : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_video_targets() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 };
 
@@ -38,7 +38,7 @@ class menu_video_options : public menu
 	virtual ~menu_video_options() override;
 
 private:
-	virtual void populate(float &customtop, float &custombottom) override;
+	virtual void populate() override;
 	virtual void handle(event const *ev) override;
 
 	render_target &m_target;
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdl.cpp b/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdl.cpp
index 2c8f604c9a23e..94b904d0cf8bb 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdl.cpp
+++ b/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdl.cpp
@@ -18,15 +18,6 @@
 
 // standard sdl header
 #include <SDL2/SDL.h>
-#include <cctype>
-// ReSharper disable once CppUnusedIncludeDirective
-#include <algorithm>
-#include <cstddef>
-#include <iterator>
-#include <memory>
-#include <mutex>
-#include <optional>
-#include <queue>
 
 // MAME headers
 #include "emu.h"
@@ -41,6 +32,14 @@
 #include "../../sdl/osdsdl.h"
 #include "../../sdl/window.h"
 
+#include <algorithm>
+#include <cctype>
+#include <cstddef>
+#include <iterator>
+#include <memory>
+#include <optional>
+#include <tuple>
+
 // winnt.h defines this
 #ifdef DELETE
 #undef DELETE
@@ -53,6 +52,145 @@ namespace {
 #define GET_FOCUS_WINDOW(ev) focus_window()
 //#define GET_FOCUS_WINDOW(ev) window_from_id((ev)->windowID)
 
+char const *const CONTROLLER_AXIS_XBOX[]{
+		"LSX",
+		"LSY",
+		"RSX",
+		"RSY",
+		"LT",
+		"RT" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_AXIS_PS[]{
+		"LSX",
+		"LSY",
+		"RSX",
+		"RSY",
+		"L2",
+		"R2" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_AXIS_SWITCH[]{
+		"LSX",
+		"LSY",
+		"RSX",
+		"RSY",
+		"ZL",
+		"ZR" };
+
+char const *const CONTROLLER_BUTTON_XBOX360[]{
+		"A",
+		"B",
+		"X",
+		"Y",
+		"Back",
+		"Guide",
+		"Start",
+		"LSB",
+		"RSB",
+		"LB",
+		"RB",
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"Share",
+		"P1",
+		"P2",
+		"P3",
+		"P4",
+		"Touchpad" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_BUTTON_XBOXONE[]{
+		"A",
+		"B",
+		"X",
+		"Y",
+		"View",
+		"Guide",
+		"Menu",
+		"LSB",
+		"RSB",
+		"LB",
+		"RB",
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"Share",
+		"P1",
+		"P2",
+		"P3",
+		"P4",
+		"Touchpad" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PS3[]{
+		"Cross",
+		"Circle",
+		"Square",
+		"Triangle",
+		"Select",
+		"PS",
+		"Start",
+		"L3",
+		"R3",
+		"L1",
+		"R1",
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"Microphone",
+		"P1",
+		"P2",
+		"P3",
+		"P4",
+		"Touchpad" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PS4[]{
+		"Cross",
+		"Circle",
+		"Square",
+		"Triangle",
+		"Share",
+		"PS",
+		"Options",
+		"L3",
+		"R3",
+		"L1",
+		"R1",
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"Microphone",
+		"P1",
+		"P2",
+		"P3",
+		"P4",
+		"Touchpad" };
+
+[[maybe_unused]] char const *const CONTROLLER_BUTTON_SWITCH[]{
+		"B",
+		"A",
+		"Y",
+		"Z",
+		"-",
+		"Home",
+		"+",
+		"LSB",
+		"RSB",
+		"L",
+		"R",
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"Capture",
+		"P1",
+		"P2",
+		"P3",
+		"P4",
+		"Touchpad" };
+
 struct key_lookup_table
 {
 	int code;
@@ -326,9 +464,7 @@ key_lookup_table sdl_lookup_table[] =
 	KE(APP2)
 
 
-{
-	-1, ""
-}
+	{ -1, "" }
 };
 
 //============================================================
@@ -615,111 +751,305 @@ class sdl_mouse_device : public sdl_device
 };
 
 //============================================================
-//  sdl_joystick_device
+//  sdl_joystick_device_base
 //============================================================
 
-class sdl_joystick_device : public sdl_device
+class sdl_joystick_device_base : public sdl_device
 {
 public:
-	// state information for a joystick
-	struct sdl_joystick_state
+	std::optional<std::string> const &serial() const { return m_serial; }
+	SDL_JoystickID instance() const { return m_instance; }
+
+	bool is_instance(SDL_JoystickID instance) const { return m_instance == instance; }
+
+protected:
+	sdl_joystick_device_base(
+			running_machine &machine,
+			std::string &&name,
+			std::string &&id,
+			input_module &module,
+			char const *serial) :
+		sdl_device(machine, std::move(name), std::move(id), DEVICE_CLASS_JOYSTICK, module),
+		m_instance(-1)
 	{
-		int32_t axes[MAX_AXES];
-		int32_t buttons[MAX_BUTTONS];
-		int32_t hatsU[MAX_HATS], hatsD[MAX_HATS], hatsL[MAX_HATS], hatsR[MAX_HATS];
-		int32_t balls[MAX_AXES];
-	};
+		if (serial)
+			m_serial = serial;
+	}
 
-	struct sdl_api_state
+	void set_instance(SDL_JoystickID instance)
 	{
-		SDL_Joystick *device = nullptr;
-		SDL_Haptic *hapdevice = nullptr;
-		SDL_JoystickID joystick_id;
-		std::optional<std::string> serial;
-	};
+		assert(0 > m_instance);
+		assert(0 <= instance);
 
-	sdl_joystick_state    joystick;
-	sdl_api_state         sdl_state;
+		m_instance = instance;
+	}
 
-	sdl_joystick_device(running_machine &machine, std::string &&name, std::string &&id, input_module &module) :
-		sdl_device(machine, std::move(name), std::move(id), DEVICE_CLASS_JOYSTICK, module),
-		joystick({{0}})
+	void clear_instance()
 	{
+		m_instance = -1;
+	}
+
+private:
+	std::optional<std::string> m_serial;
+	SDL_JoystickID m_instance;
+};
+
+//============================================================
+//  sdl_joystick_device
+//============================================================
+
+class sdl_joystick_device : public sdl_joystick_device_base
+{
+public:
+	sdl_joystick_device(
+			running_machine &machine,
+			std::string &&name,
+			std::string &&id,
+			input_module &module,
+			SDL_Joystick *joy,
+			char const *serial) :
+		sdl_joystick_device_base(
+				machine,
+				std::move(name),
+				std::move(id),
+				module,
+				serial),
+		m_joystick({{0}}),
+		m_joydevice(joy),
+		m_hapdevice(SDL_HapticOpenFromJoystick(joy))
+	{
+		set_instance(SDL_JoystickInstanceID(joy));
+	}
+
+	void configure()
+	{
+		char tempname[32];
+
+		// loop over all axes
+		for (int axis = 0; (axis < MAX_AXES) && (axis < SDL_JoystickNumAxes(m_joydevice)); axis++)
+		{
+			input_item_id itemid;
+
+			if (axis < INPUT_MAX_AXIS)
+				itemid = input_item_id(ITEM_ID_XAXIS + axis);
+			else if (axis < (INPUT_MAX_AXIS + INPUT_MAX_ADD_ABSOLUTE))
+				itemid = input_item_id(ITEM_ID_ADD_ABSOLUTE1 - INPUT_MAX_AXIS + axis);
+			else
+				itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_AXIS_ABSOLUTE;
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "A%d", axis + 1);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					itemid,
+					generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.axes[axis]);
+		}
+
+		// loop over all buttons
+		for (int button = 0; (button < MAX_BUTTONS) && (button < SDL_JoystickNumButtons(m_joydevice)); button++)
+		{
+			input_item_id itemid;
+
+			m_joystick.buttons[button] = 0;
+
+			if (button < INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS)
+				itemid = input_item_id(ITEM_ID_BUTTON1 + button);
+			else if (button < INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS + INPUT_MAX_ADD_SWITCH)
+				itemid = input_item_id(ITEM_ID_ADD_SWITCH1 - INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS + button);
+			else
+				itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH;
+
+			device()->add_item(
+					default_button_name(button),
+					itemid,
+					generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.buttons[button]);
+		}
+
+		// loop over all hats
+		for (int hat = 0; (hat < MAX_HATS) && (hat < SDL_JoystickNumHats(m_joydevice)); hat++)
+		{
+			input_item_id itemid;
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Up", hat + 1);
+			itemid = input_item_id((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1UP + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					itemid,
+					generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.hatsU[hat]);
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Down", hat + 1);
+			itemid = input_item_id((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1DOWN + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					itemid,
+					generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.hatsD[hat]);
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Left", hat + 1);
+			itemid = input_item_id((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1LEFT + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					itemid,
+					generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.hatsL[hat]);
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Right", hat + 1);
+			itemid = input_item_id((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1RIGHT + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					itemid,
+					generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.hatsR[hat]);
+		}
+
+		// loop over all (track)balls
+		for (int ball = 0; (ball < (MAX_AXES / 2)) && (ball < SDL_JoystickNumBalls(m_joydevice)); ball++)
+		{
+			int itemid;
+
+			if (ball * 2 < INPUT_MAX_ADD_RELATIVE)
+				itemid = ITEM_ID_ADD_RELATIVE1 + ball * 2;
+			else
+				itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_AXIS_RELATIVE;
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "R%d X", ball + 1);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname,
+					input_item_id(itemid),
+					generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.balls[ball * 2]);
+
+			snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "R%d Y", ball + 1);
+			device()->add_item(
+					tempname, input_item_id(itemid + 1),
+					generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+					&m_joystick.balls[ball * 2 + 1]);
+		}
 	}
 
 	~sdl_joystick_device()
 	{
-		if (sdl_state.device)
+		if (m_joydevice)
 		{
-			if (sdl_state.hapdevice)
+			if (m_hapdevice)
 			{
-				SDL_HapticClose(sdl_state.hapdevice);
-				sdl_state.hapdevice = nullptr;
+				SDL_HapticClose(m_hapdevice);
+				m_hapdevice = nullptr;
 			}
-			SDL_JoystickClose(sdl_state.device);
-			sdl_state.device = nullptr;
+			SDL_JoystickClose(m_joydevice);
+			m_joydevice = nullptr;
 		}
 	}
 
-	void reset() override
+	virtual void reset() override
 	{
-		memset(&joystick, 0, sizeof(joystick));
+		memset(&m_joystick, 0, sizeof(m_joystick));
 	}
 
-	void process_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
+	virtual void process_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
 	{
 		switch (sdlevent.type)
 		{
 		case SDL_JOYAXISMOTION:
-			joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = (sdlevent.jaxis.value * 2);
+			if (sdlevent.jaxis.axis < MAX_AXES)
+				m_joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = (sdlevent.jaxis.value * 2);
 			break;
 
 		case SDL_JOYBALLMOTION:
 			//printf("Ball %d %d\n", sdlevent.jball.xrel, sdlevent.jball.yrel);
-			joystick.balls[sdlevent.jball.ball * 2] = sdlevent.jball.xrel * osd::INPUT_RELATIVE_PER_PIXEL;
-			joystick.balls[sdlevent.jball.ball * 2 + 1] = sdlevent.jball.yrel * osd::INPUT_RELATIVE_PER_PIXEL;
+			if (sdlevent.jball.ball < (MAX_AXES / 2))
+			{
+				m_joystick.balls[sdlevent.jball.ball * 2] = sdlevent.jball.xrel * osd::INPUT_RELATIVE_PER_PIXEL;
+				m_joystick.balls[sdlevent.jball.ball * 2 + 1] = sdlevent.jball.yrel * osd::INPUT_RELATIVE_PER_PIXEL;
+			}
 			break;
 
 		case SDL_JOYHATMOTION:
-			joystick.hatsU[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_UP) ? 0x80 : 0;
-			joystick.hatsD[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_DOWN) ? 0x80 : 0;
-			joystick.hatsL[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_LEFT) ? 0x80 : 0;
-			joystick.hatsR[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_RIGHT) ? 0x80 : 0;
+			if (sdlevent.jhat.hat < MAX_HATS)
+			{
+				m_joystick.hatsU[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_UP) ? 0x80 : 0;
+				m_joystick.hatsD[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_DOWN) ? 0x80 : 0;
+				m_joystick.hatsL[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_LEFT) ? 0x80 : 0;
+				m_joystick.hatsR[sdlevent.jhat.hat] = (sdlevent.jhat.value & SDL_HAT_RIGHT) ? 0x80 : 0;
+			}
 			break;
 
 		case SDL_JOYBUTTONDOWN:
 		case SDL_JOYBUTTONUP:
 			if (sdlevent.jbutton.button < MAX_BUTTONS)
-				joystick.buttons[sdlevent.jbutton.button] = (sdlevent.jbutton.state == SDL_PRESSED) ? 0x80 : 0;
+				m_joystick.buttons[sdlevent.jbutton.button] = (sdlevent.jbutton.state == SDL_PRESSED) ? 0x80 : 0;
 			break;
 
 		case SDL_JOYDEVICEREMOVED:
 			osd_printf_verbose("Joystick: %s [GUID %s] disconnected\n", name(), id());
+			clear_instance();
 			reset();
-			if (sdl_state.device)
+			if (m_joydevice)
 			{
-				if (sdl_state.hapdevice)
+				if (m_hapdevice)
 				{
-					SDL_HapticClose(sdl_state.hapdevice);
-					sdl_state.hapdevice = nullptr;
+					SDL_HapticClose(m_hapdevice);
+					m_hapdevice = nullptr;
 				}
-				SDL_JoystickClose(sdl_state.device);
-				sdl_state.device = nullptr;
+				SDL_JoystickClose(m_joydevice);
+				m_joydevice = nullptr;
 			}
 			break;
 		}
 	}
+
+	bool has_haptic() const
+	{
+		return m_hapdevice != nullptr;
+	}
+
+	bool reconnect_match(std::string_view g, char const *s) const
+	{
+		return
+				!m_joydevice &&
+				(id() == g) &&
+				((s && serial() && (*serial() == s)) || (!s && !serial()));
+	}
+
+	void attach_device(SDL_Joystick *joy)
+	{
+		assert(joy);
+		assert(!m_joydevice);
+
+		set_instance(SDL_JoystickInstanceID(joy));
+		m_joydevice = joy;
+		m_hapdevice = SDL_HapticOpenFromJoystick(joy);
+	}
+
+protected:
+	// state information for a joystick
+	struct sdl_joystick_state
+	{
+		int32_t axes[MAX_AXES];
+		int32_t buttons[MAX_BUTTONS];
+		int32_t hatsU[MAX_HATS], hatsD[MAX_HATS], hatsL[MAX_HATS], hatsR[MAX_HATS];
+		int32_t balls[MAX_AXES];
+	};
+
+	sdl_joystick_state m_joystick;
+
+private:
+	SDL_Joystick *m_joydevice;
+	SDL_Haptic *m_hapdevice;
 };
 
+//============================================================
+//  sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device
+//============================================================
+
 class sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device : public sdl_joystick_device
 {
 public:
-	sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device(running_machine &machine, std::string &&name, std::string &&id, input_module &module) :
-		sdl_joystick_device(machine, std::move(name), std::move(id), module)
-	{
-	}
+	using sdl_joystick_device::sdl_joystick_device;
 
-	void process_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
+	virtual void process_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
 	{
 		switch (sdlevent.type)
 		{
@@ -728,12 +1058,12 @@ class sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device : public sdl_joystick_device
 				int const axis = sdlevent.jaxis.axis;
 				if (axis <= 3)
 				{
-					joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = (sdlevent.jaxis.value * 2);
+					m_joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = (sdlevent.jaxis.value * 2);
 				}
 				else
 				{
 					int const magic = (sdlevent.jaxis.value / 2) + 16384;
-					joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = magic;
+					m_joystick.axes[sdlevent.jaxis.axis] = magic;
 				}
 			}
 			break;
@@ -746,6 +1076,308 @@ class sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device : public sdl_joystick_device
 	}
 };
 
+//============================================================
+//  sdl_game_controller_device
+//============================================================
+
+class sdl_game_controller_device : public sdl_joystick_device_base
+{
+public:
+	sdl_game_controller_device(
+			running_machine &machine,
+			std::string &&name,
+			std::string &&id,
+			input_module &module,
+			SDL_GameController *ctrl,
+			char const *serial) :
+		sdl_joystick_device_base(
+				machine,
+				std::move(name),
+				std::move(id),
+				module,
+				serial),
+		m_controller({{0}}),
+		m_ctrldevice(ctrl)
+	{
+		set_instance(SDL_JoystickInstanceID(SDL_GameControllerGetJoystick(ctrl)));
+	}
+
+	~sdl_game_controller_device()
+	{
+		if (m_ctrldevice)
+		{
+			SDL_GameControllerClose(m_ctrldevice);
+			m_ctrldevice = nullptr;
+		}
+	}
+
+	void configure()
+	{
+		char const *const *axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_XBOX;
+		char const *const *buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_XBOX360;
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 12)
+		auto const ctrltype = SDL_GameControllerGetType(m_ctrldevice);
+		switch (ctrltype)
+		{
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_UNKNOWN:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  unknown type\n", int(ctrltype));
+			break;
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_XBOX360:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  Xbox 360 type\n");
+			axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_XBOX;
+			buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_XBOX360;
+			break;
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_XBOXONE:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  Xbox One type\n");
+			axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_XBOX;
+			buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_XBOXONE;
+			break;
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_PS3:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  PlayStation 3 type\n");
+			axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_PS;
+			buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PS3;
+			break;
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_PS4:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  PlayStation 4 type\n");
+			axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_PS;
+			buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PS4;
+			break;
+		case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_NINTENDO_SWITCH_PRO:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  Switch Pro Controller type\n");
+			axisnames = CONTROLLER_AXIS_SWITCH;
+			buttonnames = CONTROLLER_BUTTON_SWITCH;
+			break;
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14) // TODO: support more controller types
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_VIRTUAL:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_PS5:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_AMAZON_LUNA:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_GOOGLE_STADIA:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_SWITCH_JOYCON_LEFT:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_SWITCH_JOYCON_RIGHT:
+		//case SDL_CONTROLLER_TYPE_SWITCH_JOYCON_PAIR:
+#endif
+		default: // default to Xbox 360 names
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller:   ...  unrecognised type (%d)\n", int(ctrltype));
+			break;
+		}
+#endif
+
+		// add axes
+		std::tuple<SDL_GameControllerAxis, input_item_id, bool> axes[]{
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_LEFTX,           ITEM_ID_XAXIS,   false },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_LEFTY,           ITEM_ID_YAXIS,   false },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_RIGHTX,          ITEM_ID_ZAXIS,   false },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_RIGHTY,          ITEM_ID_RZAXIS,  false },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERLEFT,     ITEM_ID_SLIDER1, true },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERRIGHT,    ITEM_ID_SLIDER2, true } };
+		for (auto [axis, item, buttontest] : axes)
+		{
+			bool avail = true;
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+			avail = SDL_GameControllerHasAxis(m_ctrldevice, axis);
+#endif
+			if (avail)
+			{
+				auto const binding = SDL_GameControllerGetBindForAxis(m_ctrldevice, axis);
+				switch (binding.bindType)
+				{
+				case SDL_CONTROLLER_BINDTYPE_NONE:
+					avail = false;
+					break;
+				case SDL_CONTROLLER_BINDTYPE_BUTTON:
+					if (buttontest)
+						avail = false;
+					break;
+				default:
+					break;
+				}
+			}
+			if (avail)
+			{
+				device()->add_item(
+						axisnames[axis],
+						item,
+						generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+						&m_controller.axes[axis]);
+			}
+		}
+
+		// add automatically numbered buttons
+		std::pair<SDL_GameControllerButton, SDL_GameControllerAxis> numberedbuttons[]{
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_A,             SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_B,             SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_X,             SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_Y,             SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_LEFTSHOULDER,  SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_RIGHTSHOULDER, SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_INVALID,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERLEFT },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_INVALID,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERRIGHT },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_LEFTSTICK,     SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_RIGHTSTICK,    SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PADDLE1,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PADDLE2,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PADDLE3,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_PADDLE4,       SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+#endif
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_GUIDE,         SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_MISC1,         SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_TOUCHPAD,      SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_INVALID },
+#endif
+				};
+		input_item_id button_item = ITEM_ID_BUTTON1;
+		for (auto [button, axis] : numberedbuttons)
+		{
+			bool avail = true;
+			if (SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_INVALID != button)
+			{
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+				avail = SDL_GameControllerHasButton(m_ctrldevice, button);
+#endif
+				if (avail)
+				{
+					auto const binding = SDL_GameControllerGetBindForButton(m_ctrldevice, button);
+					switch (binding.bindType)
+					{
+					case SDL_CONTROLLER_BINDTYPE_NONE:
+						avail = false;
+						break;
+					default:
+						break;
+					}
+				}
+				if (avail)
+				{
+					device()->add_item(
+							buttonnames[button],
+							button_item++,
+							generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+							&m_controller.buttons[button]);
+				}
+			}
+			else
+			{
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+				avail = SDL_GameControllerHasAxis(m_ctrldevice, axis);
+#endif
+				if (avail)
+				{
+					auto const binding = SDL_GameControllerGetBindForAxis(m_ctrldevice, axis);
+					switch (binding.bindType)
+					{
+					case SDL_CONTROLLER_BINDTYPE_BUTTON:
+						break;
+					default:
+						avail = false;
+					}
+				}
+				if (avail)
+				{
+					device()->add_item(
+							axisnames[axis],
+							button_item++,
+							[] (void *device_internal, void *item_internal) -> int
+							{
+								return (*reinterpret_cast<int32_t const *>(item_internal) <= -16'384) ? 1 : 0;
+							},
+							&m_controller.axes[axis]);
+				}
+			}
+		}
+
+		// add buttons with fixed item IDs
+		std::pair<SDL_GameControllerButton, input_item_id> fixedbuttons[]{
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_BACK,       ITEM_ID_SELECT },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_START,      ITEM_ID_START },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_DPAD_UP,    ITEM_ID_HAT1UP },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_DPAD_DOWN,  ITEM_ID_HAT1DOWN },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_DPAD_LEFT,  ITEM_ID_HAT1LEFT },
+				{ SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_DPAD_RIGHT, ITEM_ID_HAT1RIGHT } };
+		for (auto [button, item] : fixedbuttons)
+		{
+			bool avail = true;
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+			avail = SDL_GameControllerHasButton(m_ctrldevice, button);
+#endif
+			if (avail)
+			{
+				auto const binding = SDL_GameControllerGetBindForButton(m_ctrldevice, button);
+				switch (binding.bindType)
+				{
+				case SDL_CONTROLLER_BINDTYPE_NONE:
+					avail = false;
+					break;
+				default:
+					break;
+				}
+			}
+			if (avail)
+			{
+				device()->add_item(
+						buttonnames[button],
+						item,
+						generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>,
+						&m_controller.buttons[button]);
+			}
+		}
+	}
+
+	virtual void reset() override
+	{
+		memset(&m_controller, 0, sizeof(m_controller));
+	}
+
+	virtual void process_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
+	{
+		switch (sdlevent.type)
+		{
+		case SDL_CONTROLLERAXISMOTION:
+			if (sdlevent.caxis.axis < SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_MAX)
+			{
+				switch (sdlevent.caxis.axis)
+				{
+				case SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERLEFT: // MAME wants negative values for triggers
+				case SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_TRIGGERRIGHT:
+					m_controller.axes[sdlevent.caxis.axis] = -normalize_absolute_axis(sdlevent.caxis.value, -32'767, 32'767);
+					break;
+				default:
+					m_controller.axes[sdlevent.caxis.axis] = normalize_absolute_axis(sdlevent.caxis.value, -32'767, 32'767);
+				}
+			}
+			break;
+
+		case SDL_CONTROLLERBUTTONDOWN:
+		case SDL_CONTROLLERBUTTONUP:
+			if (sdlevent.cbutton.button < SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_MAX)
+				m_controller.buttons[sdlevent.cbutton.button] = (sdlevent.cbutton.state == SDL_PRESSED) ? 0x80 : 0x00;
+			break;
+
+		case SDL_CONTROLLERDEVICEREMOVED:
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller: %s [GUID %s] disconnected\n", name(), id());
+			clear_instance();
+			reset();
+			if (m_ctrldevice)
+			{
+				SDL_GameControllerClose(m_ctrldevice);
+				m_ctrldevice = nullptr;
+			}
+			break;
+		}
+	}
+
+private:
+	// state information for a game controller
+	struct sdl_controller_state
+	{
+		int32_t axes[SDL_CONTROLLER_AXIS_MAX];
+		int32_t buttons[SDL_CONTROLLER_BUTTON_MAX];
+	};
+
+	sdl_controller_state m_controller;
+	SDL_GameController *m_ctrldevice;
+};
+
 //============================================================
 //  sdl_input_module
 //============================================================
@@ -753,7 +1385,7 @@ class sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device : public sdl_joystick_device
 class sdl_input_module : public input_module_base, public sdl_event_subscriber
 {
 public:
-	sdl_input_module(const char *type) : input_module_base(type, "sdl")
+	sdl_input_module(char const *type, char const *name) : input_module_base(type, name)
 	{
 	}
 
@@ -804,7 +1436,7 @@ class sdl_keyboard_module : public sdl_input_module
 	keyboard_trans_table * m_key_trans_table;
 public:
 	sdl_keyboard_module() :
-		sdl_input_module(OSD_KEYBOARDINPUT_PROVIDER),
+		sdl_input_module(OSD_KEYBOARDINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdl"),
 		m_key_trans_table(nullptr)
 	{
 	}
@@ -936,7 +1568,7 @@ class sdl_keyboard_module : public sdl_input_module
 class sdl_mouse_module : public sdl_input_module
 {
 public:
-	sdl_mouse_module() : sdl_input_module(OSD_MOUSEINPUT_PROVIDER)
+	sdl_mouse_module() : sdl_input_module(OSD_MOUSEINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdl")
 	{
 	}
 
@@ -979,16 +1611,11 @@ class sdl_mouse_module : public sdl_input_module
 
 class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 {
-private:
-	bool m_initialized_joystick;
-	bool m_initialized_haptic;
-	bool m_sixaxis_mode;
 public:
 	sdl_joystick_module() :
-		sdl_input_module(OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER),
+		sdl_input_module(OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdljoy"),
 		m_initialized_joystick(false),
-		m_initialized_haptic(false),
-		m_sixaxis_mode(false)
+		m_initialized_haptic(false)
 	{
 	}
 
@@ -997,14 +1624,10 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 		sdl_input_module::exit();
 
 		if (m_initialized_joystick)
-		{
 			SDL_QuitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_JOYSTICK);
-		}
 
 		if (m_initialized_haptic)
-		{
 			SDL_QuitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_HAPTIC);
-		}
 	}
 
 	virtual void input_init(running_machine &machine) override
@@ -1026,9 +1649,7 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 
 		sdl_input_module::input_init(machine);
 
-		char tempname[512];
-
-		m_sixaxis_mode = downcast<const sdl_options *>(options())->sixaxis();
+		bool const sixaxis_mode = downcast<const sdl_options *>(options())->sixaxis();
 
 		osd_printf_verbose("Joystick: Start initialization\n");
 		for (int physical_stick = 0; physical_stick < SDL_NumJoysticks(); physical_stick++)
@@ -1047,9 +1668,9 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 			if (serial)
 				id.append(1, '-').append(serial);
 
-			sdl_joystick_device *const devinfo = m_sixaxis_mode
-					? &devicelist().create_device<sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device>(machine, name ? name : guid_str, guid_str, *this)
-					: &devicelist().create_device<sdl_joystick_device>(machine, name ? name : guid_str, guid_str, *this);
+			sdl_joystick_device *const devinfo = sixaxis_mode
+					? &devicelist().create_device<sdl_sixaxis_joystick_device>(machine, name ? name : guid_str, guid_str, *this, joy, serial)
+					: &devicelist().create_device<sdl_joystick_device>(machine, name ? name : guid_str, guid_str, *this, joy, serial);
 
 			if (!devinfo)
 			{
@@ -1057,12 +1678,6 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 				continue;
 			}
 
-			devinfo->sdl_state.device = joy;
-			devinfo->sdl_state.joystick_id = SDL_JoystickInstanceID(joy);
-			devinfo->sdl_state.hapdevice = SDL_HapticOpenFromJoystick(joy);
-			if (serial)
-				devinfo->sdl_state.serial = serial;
-
 			osd_printf_verbose("Joystick: %s [GUID %s] Vendor ID %04X, Product ID %04X, Revision %04X, Serial %s\n",
 					name ? name : "<nullptr>",
 					guid_str,
@@ -1075,80 +1690,14 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 					SDL_JoystickNumButtons(joy),
 					SDL_JoystickNumHats(joy),
 					SDL_JoystickNumBalls(joy));
-			if (devinfo->sdl_state.hapdevice)
+			if (devinfo->has_haptic())
 				osd_printf_verbose("Joystick:   ...  Has haptic capability\n");
 			else
 				osd_printf_verbose("Joystick:   ...  Does not have haptic capability\n");
-
-			// loop over all axes
-			for (int axis = 0; axis < SDL_JoystickNumAxes(joy); axis++)
-			{
-				input_item_id itemid;
-
-				if (axis < INPUT_MAX_AXIS)
-					itemid = (input_item_id)(ITEM_ID_XAXIS + axis);
-				else if (axis < INPUT_MAX_AXIS + INPUT_MAX_ADD_ABSOLUTE)
-					itemid = (input_item_id)(ITEM_ID_ADD_ABSOLUTE1 - INPUT_MAX_AXIS + axis);
-				else
-					itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_AXIS_ABSOLUTE;
-
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "A%d", axis + 1);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, itemid, generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.axes[axis]);
-			}
-
-			// loop over all buttons
 			if (SDL_JoystickNumButtons(joy) > MAX_BUTTONS)
 				osd_printf_verbose("Joystick:   ...  Has %d buttons which exceeds supported %d buttons\n", SDL_JoystickNumButtons(joy), MAX_BUTTONS);
-			for (int button = 0; (button < MAX_BUTTONS) && (button < SDL_JoystickNumButtons(joy)); button++)
-			{
-				input_item_id itemid;
-
-				devinfo->joystick.buttons[button] = 0;
-
-				if (button < INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS)
-					itemid = (input_item_id)(ITEM_ID_BUTTON1 + button);
-				else if (button < INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS + INPUT_MAX_ADD_SWITCH)
-					itemid = (input_item_id)(ITEM_ID_ADD_SWITCH1 - INPUT_MAX_BUTTONS + button);
-				else
-					itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH;
-
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(default_button_name(button), itemid, generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.buttons[button]);
-			}
-
-			// loop over all hats
-			for (int hat = 0; hat < SDL_JoystickNumHats(joy); hat++)
-			{
-				input_item_id itemid;
-
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Up", hat + 1);
-				itemid = (input_item_id)((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1UP + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, itemid, generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.hatsU[hat]);
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Down", hat + 1);
-				itemid = (input_item_id)((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1DOWN + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, itemid, generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.hatsD[hat]);
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Left", hat + 1);
-				itemid = (input_item_id)((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1LEFT + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, itemid, generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.hatsL[hat]);
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "Hat %d Right", hat + 1);
-				itemid = (input_item_id)((hat < INPUT_MAX_HATS) ? ITEM_ID_HAT1RIGHT + 4 * hat : ITEM_ID_OTHER_SWITCH);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, itemid, generic_button_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.hatsR[hat]);
-			}
-
-			// loop over all (track)balls
-			for (int ball = 0; ball < SDL_JoystickNumBalls(joy); ball++)
-			{
-				int itemid;
 
-				if (ball * 2 < INPUT_MAX_ADD_RELATIVE)
-					itemid = ITEM_ID_ADD_RELATIVE1 + ball * 2;
-				else
-					itemid = ITEM_ID_OTHER_AXIS_RELATIVE;
-
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "R%d X", ball + 1);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, (input_item_id)itemid, generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.balls[ball * 2]);
-				snprintf(tempname, sizeof(tempname), "R%d Y", ball + 1);
-				devinfo->device()->add_item(tempname, (input_item_id)(itemid + 1), generic_axis_get_state<std::int32_t>, &devinfo->joystick.balls[ball * 2 + 1]);
-			}
+			devinfo->configure();
 		}
 
 		static int const event_types[] = {
@@ -1186,17 +1735,12 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 						[&guid_str, &serial] (auto const &device)
 						{
 							auto &devinfo = downcast<sdl_joystick_device &>(*device);
-							return
-									!devinfo.sdl_state.device &&
-									(devinfo.id() == guid_str) &&
-									((serial && devinfo.sdl_state.serial && (*devinfo.sdl_state.serial == serial)) || (!serial && !devinfo.sdl_state.serial));
+							return devinfo.reconnect_match(guid_str, serial);
 						});
 				if (devicelist().end() != target_device)
 				{
 					auto &devinfo = downcast<sdl_joystick_device &>(**target_device);
-					devinfo.sdl_state.device = joy;
-					devinfo.sdl_state.joystick_id = SDL_JoystickInstanceID(joy);
-					devinfo.sdl_state.hapdevice = SDL_HapticOpenFromJoystick(joy);
+					devinfo.attach_device(joy);
 					osd_printf_verbose("Joystick: %s [GUID %s] reconnected\n", devinfo.name(), guid_str);
 				}
 				else
@@ -1207,10 +1751,10 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 		}
 		else
 		{
-			// Figure out which joystick this event id destined for
+			// figure out which joystick this event is destined for
 			sdl_joystick_device *const target_device = find_joystick(sdlevent.jdevice.which); // FIXME: this depends on SDL_JoystickID being the same size as Sint32
 
-			// If we find a matching joystick, dispatch the event to the joystick
+			// if we find a matching joystick, dispatch the event to the joystick
 			if (target_device)
 				target_device->queue_events(&sdlevent, 1);
 		}
@@ -1222,11 +1766,128 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 		for (auto &ptr : devicelist())
 		{
 			sdl_joystick_device *const device = downcast<sdl_joystick_device *>(ptr.get());
-			if (device->sdl_state.device && (device->sdl_state.joystick_id == instance))
+			if (device->is_instance(instance))
 				return device;
 		}
 		return nullptr;
 	}
+
+	bool m_initialized_joystick;
+	bool m_initialized_haptic;
+};
+
+
+//============================================================
+//  sdl_game_controller_module
+//============================================================
+
+class sdl_game_controller_module : public sdl_input_module
+{
+public:
+	sdl_game_controller_module() :
+		sdl_input_module(OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdlgame"),
+		m_initialized_game_controller(false)
+	{
+	}
+
+	virtual void exit() override
+	{
+		sdl_input_module::exit();
+
+		if (m_initialized_game_controller)
+			SDL_QuitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_GAMECONTROLLER);
+	}
+
+	virtual void input_init(running_machine &machine) override
+	{
+		m_initialized_game_controller = !SDL_InitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_GAMECONTROLLER);
+		if (!m_initialized_game_controller)
+		{
+			osd_printf_error("Could not initialize SDL Game Controller: %s.\n", SDL_GetError());
+			return;
+		}
+
+		sdl_input_module::input_init(machine);
+
+		osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller: Start initialization\n");
+		for (int physical_stick = 0; physical_stick < SDL_NumJoysticks(); physical_stick++)
+		{
+			if (!SDL_IsGameController(physical_stick))
+				continue;
+
+			SDL_GameController *const ctrl = SDL_GameControllerOpen(physical_stick);
+			char const *const name = SDL_GameControllerName(ctrl);
+			SDL_JoystickGUID guid = SDL_JoystickGetDeviceGUID(physical_stick);
+			char guid_str[256];
+			guid_str[0] = '\0';
+			SDL_JoystickGetGUIDString(guid, guid_str, sizeof(guid_str) - 1);
+			char const *serial = nullptr;
+#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 14)
+			serial = SDL_GameControllerGetSerial(ctrl);
+#endif
+			std::string id(guid_str);
+			if (serial)
+				id.append(1, '-').append(serial);
+
+			sdl_game_controller_device *const devinfo = &devicelist().create_device<sdl_game_controller_device>(
+					machine,
+					name ? name : guid_str,
+					guid_str,
+					*this,
+					ctrl,
+					serial);
+
+			if (!devinfo)
+			{
+				SDL_GameControllerClose(ctrl);
+				continue;
+			}
+
+			osd_printf_verbose("Game Controller: %s [GUID %s] Vendor ID %04X, Product ID %04X, Revision %04X, Serial %s\n",
+					name ? name : "<nullptr>",
+					guid_str,
+					SDL_GameControllerGetVendor(ctrl),
+					SDL_GameControllerGetProduct(ctrl),
+					SDL_GameControllerGetProductVersion(ctrl),
+					serial ? serial : "<nullptr>");
+
+			devinfo->configure();
+		}
+
+		static int const event_types[] = {
+				int(SDL_CONTROLLERAXISMOTION),
+				int(SDL_CONTROLLERBUTTONDOWN),
+				int(SDL_CONTROLLERBUTTONUP),
+				int(SDL_CONTROLLERDEVICEREMOVED) };
+
+		sdl_event_manager::instance().subscribe(event_types, this);
+
+		osd_printf_verbose("Joystick: End initialization\n");
+	}
+
+	virtual void handle_event(SDL_Event &sdlevent) override
+	{
+		// figure out which game controller this event is destined for
+		sdl_game_controller_device *const target_device = find_controller(sdlevent.jdevice.which); // FIXME: this depends on SDL_JoystickID being the same size as Sint32
+
+		// if we find a matching controller, dispatch the event to the game controller
+		if (target_device)
+			target_device->queue_events(&sdlevent, 1);
+	}
+
+private:
+	sdl_game_controller_device *find_controller(SDL_JoystickID instance)
+	{
+		for (auto &ptr : devicelist())
+		{
+			sdl_game_controller_device *const device = downcast<sdl_game_controller_device *>(ptr.get());
+			if (device->is_instance(instance))
+				return device;
+		}
+		return nullptr;
+	}
+
+	bool m_initialized_game_controller;
 };
 
 } // anonymous namespace
@@ -1237,10 +1898,12 @@ class sdl_joystick_module : public sdl_input_module
 
 MODULE_NOT_SUPPORTED(sdl_keyboard_module, OSD_KEYBOARDINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdl")
 MODULE_NOT_SUPPORTED(sdl_mouse_module, OSD_MOUSEINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdl")
-MODULE_NOT_SUPPORTED(sdl_joystick_module, OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdl")
+MODULE_NOT_SUPPORTED(sdl_joystick_module, OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdljoy")
+MODULE_NOT_SUPPORTED(sdl_game_controller_module, OSD_JOYSTICKINPUT_PROVIDER, "sdlgame")
 
 #endif // defined(SDLMAME_SDL2)
 
 MODULE_DEFINITION(KEYBOARDINPUT_SDL, sdl_keyboard_module)
 MODULE_DEFINITION(MOUSEINPUT_SDL, sdl_mouse_module)
-MODULE_DEFINITION(JOYSTICKINPUT_SDL, sdl_joystick_module)
+MODULE_DEFINITION(JOYSTICKINPUT_SDLJOY, sdl_joystick_module)
+MODULE_DEFINITION(JOYSTICKINPUT_SDLGAME, sdl_game_controller_module)
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdlcommon.cpp b/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdlcommon.cpp
index f0d8a8632f6ed..7fd13ce2b8f65 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdlcommon.cpp
+++ b/src/osd/modules/input/input_sdlcommon.cpp
@@ -71,10 +71,10 @@ void sdl_event_manager::process_events(running_machine &machine)
 		auto subscribers = m_subscription_index.equal_range(sdlevent.type);
 
 		// Dispatch the events
-		std::for_each(subscribers.first, subscribers.second, [&sdlevent](auto sub)
-		{
-			sub.second->handle_event(sdlevent);
-		});
+		std::for_each(
+				subscribers.first,
+				subscribers.second,
+				[&sdlevent] (auto sub) { sub.second->handle_event(sdlevent); });
 	}
 }
 
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/input/input_winhybrid.cpp b/src/osd/modules/input/input_winhybrid.cpp
index 52d991a96749c..5280d42c81882 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/input/input_winhybrid.cpp
+++ b/src/osd/modules/input/input_winhybrid.cpp
@@ -226,8 +226,6 @@ class winhybrid_joystick_module : public wininput_module, public device_enum_int
 		if (result != DI_OK)
 			fatalerror("DirectInput: Unable to enumerate game controllers (result=%08X)\n", uint32_t(result));
 
-		xinput_joystick_device *devinfo;
-
 		// now add all xinput devices
 		if (!m_xinput_detect_failed)
 		{
@@ -236,16 +234,9 @@ class winhybrid_joystick_module : public wininput_module, public device_enum_int
 			{
 				XINPUT_STATE state = { 0 };
 
+				// allocate and link in a new device
 				if (m_xinput_helper->xinput_get_state(i, &state) == ERROR_SUCCESS)
-				{
-					// allocate and link in a new device
-					devinfo = m_xinput_helper->create_xinput_device(machine, i, *this);
-					if (!devinfo)
-						continue;
-
-					// Configure each gamepad to add buttons and Axes, etc.
-					devinfo->configure();
-				}
+					m_xinput_helper->create_xinput_device(machine, i, *this);
 			}
 		}
 	}
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.cpp b/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.cpp
index e7242a4e38a9e..fda2b9d8b2363 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.cpp
+++ b/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.cpp
@@ -5,6 +5,101 @@
 //  input_xinput.cpp - XInput API input support for Windows
 //
 //============================================================
+/*
+
+XInput is infamously inflexible.  It currently only supports a single
+controller type (game controller) with a fixed report format.  The
+report format includes:
+* 16-bit field for single-bit buttons and D-pad directions (two bits
+  undefined)
+* Two 8-bit axis values, used for triggers, pedals, buttons or throttle
+  and rudder controls, depending on the controller
+* Four 16-bit axis values, used for joysticks, steering wheels or hat
+  switches, depending on the controller
+
+Some button names have changed at various times:
+* Face buttons White and Black became shoulder buttons LB and RB,
+  respectively.
+* Navigation buttons Start and Back became Menu and View, respectively.
+
+Subtype         Gamepad         Wheel           Arcade stick    Arcade pad      Flight stick    Dance pad       Guitar          Drum kit
+
+D-pad           D-pad           D-pad           Joystick        D-pad                           Foot switch     D-Pad/Strum     D-pad
+L trigger       Trigger         Brake           Button          Button          Rudder                          Pickup select^
+R trigger       Trigger         Accelerator     Button          Button          Throttle                        ^
+L stick X       Stick           Wheel                                           Roll
+L stick Y       Stick                                                           Pitch
+R stick X       Stick                                                           Hat left/right                  Whammy bar
+R stick Y       Stick                                                           Hat up/down                     Orientation
+
+A               Button          Button          Button          Button          Primary fire    Foot switch     Fret 1          Floor tom
+B               Button          Button          Button          Button          Secondary fire  Foot switch     Fret 2          Snare
+X               Button          Button          Button          Button          Button          Foot switch     Fret 4          Low tom
+Y               Button          Button          Button          Button          Button          Foot switch     Fret 3          High tom
+LB              Button          Button          Button^         Button          Button^                         Fret 5          Bass drum
+RB              Button          Button          Button^         Button          Button^                         Button^         Button^
+LSB             Button          Button^         Button^         Button^         Button^                         Fret mod^       Button^
+RSB             Button          Button^         Button^         Button^         Button^                         Button^         Button^
+
+^ optional
+
+
+There are multiple physical button layouts for arcade sticks, for
+example:
+
+Gamester Xbox Arcade Stick, Hori Real Arcade Pro EX
+LT X  Y  LB
+RT A  B  RB
+
+PXN 0082 Arcade Stick
+LB X  Y  RB
+LT A  B  RT
+
+Mortal Kombat Tournament Edition Arcade Stick
+   X    Y
+     RT
+LB A    B
+
+Hori Fighting Stick EX2
+ B  X  Y
+A  LT RT
+
+Hori Real Arcade Pro VX-SA Kai, Razer Atrox
+ B  X  Y  LB
+A  LT RT RB
+
+Hori Real Arcade Pro.V Kai, Mayflash F300, Mayflash F500
+ X  Y  RB LB
+A  B  RT LT
+
+Mad Catz Brawl Stick
+ X  Y  LB LT
+A  B  RB RT
+
+Arcade pads typically have six face buttons, and come with different
+layouts corresponding to the latter two arcade stick layouts, with the
+rightmost column on the shoulder buttons.
+
+
+Dance mats usually have this layout:
+BK    ST
+B  U  A
+L     R
+Y  D  X
+
+This layout seems somewhat unusual:
+BK    ST
+A  U  B
+L     R
+X  D  Y
+
+This layout is also available but rare:
+BK    ST
+A  U  B
+L     R
+Y  D  X
+
+*/
 
 #include "modules/osdmodule.h"
 
@@ -17,83 +112,441 @@
 // standard windows headers
 #include <windows.h>
 
+#include <algorithm>
+#include <cstdint>
+#include <string>
+#include <tuple>
+#include <utility>
+
 
 #define XINPUT_LIBRARIES { "xinput1_4.dll", "xinput9_1_0.dll" }
 
-#define XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE -32767
-#define XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE 32767
+#define XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE (-32'767)
+#define XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE (32'767)
 
 namespace {
 
-// default axis names
-const char *const xinput_axis_name[] =
+char const *const AXIS_NAMES_GAMEPAD[]{
+		"LSX",
+		"LSY",
+		"RSX",
+		"RSY",
+		"LT",
+		"RT" };
+
+char const *const AXIS_NAMES_WHEEL[]{
+		"Wheel",
+		"LSY",
+		"RSX",
+		"RSY",
+		"Brake",
+		"Accelerator" };
+
+char const *const AXIS_NAMES_FLIGHT_STICK[]{
+		"Joystick X",
+		"Joystick Y",
+		nullptr,
+		nullptr,
+		"Rudder",
+		"Throttle" };
+
+input_item_id const AXIS_IDS_GAMEPAD[]{
+		ITEM_ID_XAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_YAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_ZAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_RZAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_SLIDER1,
+		ITEM_ID_SLIDER2 };
+
+input_item_id const AXIS_IDS_FLIGHT_STICK[]{
+		ITEM_ID_XAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_YAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_INVALID,
+		ITEM_ID_INVALID,
+		ITEM_ID_RZAXIS,
+		ITEM_ID_ZAXIS };
+
+const char *const HAT_NAMES_GAMEPAD[]{
+		"D-pad Up",
+		"D-pad Down",
+		"D-pad Left",
+		"D-pad Right",
+		"POV Hat Up",
+		"POV Hat Down",
+		"POV Hat Left",
+		"POV Hat Right" };
+
+const char *const HAT_NAMES_ARCADE_STICK[]{
+		"Joystick Up",
+		"Joystick Down",
+		"Joystick Left",
+		"Joystick Right",
+		nullptr,
+		nullptr,
+		nullptr,
+		nullptr };
+
+
+//============================================================
+//  xinput_joystick_device
+//============================================================
+
+class xinput_joystick_device : public device_info
 {
-	"LSX",
-	"LSY",
-	"RSX",
-	"RSY"
+public:
+	xinput_joystick_device(
+			running_machine &machine,
+			std::string &&name,
+			std::string &&id,
+			input_module &module,
+			uint32_t player,
+			XINPUT_CAPABILITIES const &caps,
+			std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> helper);
+
+	void poll() override;
+	void reset() override;
+	void configure();
+
+private:
+	static inline constexpr USHORT SWITCH_BITS[] =
+	{
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_A,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_B,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_X,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_Y,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_SHOULDER,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_SHOULDER,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_THUMB,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_THUMB,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_START,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_BACK,
+
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_UP,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_DOWN,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_LEFT,
+		XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_RIGHT
+	};
+
+	enum
+	{
+		SWITCH_A,           // button bits
+		SWITCH_B,
+		SWITCH_X,
+		SWITCH_Y,
+		SWITCH_LB,
+		SWITCH_RB,
+		SWITCH_LSB,
+		SWITCH_RSB,
+		SWITCH_START,
+		SWITCH_BACK,
+
+		SWITCH_DPAD_UP,     // D-pad bits
+		SWITCH_DPAD_DOWN,
+		SWITCH_DPAD_LEFT,
+		SWITCH_DPAD_RIGHT,
+
+		SWITCH_HAT_UP,      // for flight stick with POV hat as right stick
+		SWITCH_HAT_DOWN,
+		SWITCH_HAT_LEFT,
+		SWITCH_HAT_RIGHT,
+
+		SWITCH_LT,          // for arcade stick/pad with LT/RT buttons
+		SWITCH_RT,
+
+		SWITCH_TOTAL
+	};
+
+	enum
+	{
+		AXIS_LT,            // half-axes for triggers
+		AXIS_RT,
+
+		AXIS_LSX,           // full-precision axes
+		AXIS_LSY,
+		AXIS_RSX,
+		AXIS_RSY,
+
+		AXIS_RUDDER,        // LT/RT mapped differently for flight sticks
+		AXIS_THROTTLE,
+
+		AXIS_TOTAL
+	};
+
+	uint32_t const            m_player_index;
+	XINPUT_CAPABILITIES const m_capabilities;
+	XINPUT_STATE              m_xinput_state;
+	uint8_t                   m_switches[SWITCH_TOTAL];
+	int32_t                   m_axes[AXIS_TOTAL];
+
+	std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> m_xinput_helper;
 };
 
-const input_item_id xinput_axis_ids[] =
+xinput_joystick_device::xinput_joystick_device(
+		running_machine &machine,
+		std::string &&name,
+		std::string &&id,
+		input_module &module,
+		uint32_t player,
+		XINPUT_CAPABILITIES const &caps,
+		std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> helper) :
+	device_info(machine, std::move(name), std::move(id), DEVICE_CLASS_JOYSTICK, module),
+	m_player_index(player),
+	m_capabilities(caps),
+	m_xinput_state{ 0 },
+	m_xinput_helper(helper)
 {
-	ITEM_ID_XAXIS,
-	ITEM_ID_YAXIS,
-	ITEM_ID_ZAXIS,
-	ITEM_ID_RZAXIS
-};
+	std::fill(std::begin(m_switches), std::end(m_switches), 0);
+	std::fill(std::begin(m_axes), std::end(m_axes), 0);
+}
 
-const USHORT xinput_pov_dir[] = {
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_UP,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_DOWN,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_LEFT,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_RIGHT
-};
+void xinput_joystick_device::poll()
+{
+	// poll the device first
+	DWORD const prevpacket = m_xinput_state.dwPacketNumber;
+	HRESULT result = m_xinput_helper->xinput_get_state(m_player_index, &m_xinput_state);
 
-const char *const xinput_pov_names[] = {
-	"DPAD Up",
-	"DPAD Down",
-	"DPAD Left",
-	"DPAD Right"
-};
+	// if we can't poll the device or nothing changed, skip
+	if (FAILED(result) || (prevpacket == m_xinput_state.dwPacketNumber))
+		return;
 
-const USHORT xinput_buttons[] = {
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_A,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_B,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_X,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_Y,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_SHOULDER,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_SHOULDER,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_THUMB,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_THUMB,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_START,
-	XINPUT_GAMEPAD_BACK
-};
+	// translate button bits
+	for (unsigned i = 0; std::size(SWITCH_BITS) > i; ++i)
+		m_switches[SWITCH_A + i] = (m_xinput_state.Gamepad.wButtons & SWITCH_BITS[i]) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+
+	// translate the triggers onto the negative side of the axes
+	m_axes[AXIS_LT] = -normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger, -255, 255);
+	m_axes[AXIS_RT] = -normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bRightTrigger, -255, 255);
+
+	// translate full-precision axes - Y direction is opposite to what MAME uses
+	m_axes[AXIS_LSX] = normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbLX, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
+	m_axes[AXIS_LSY] = normalize_absolute_axis(-m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbLY, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
+	m_axes[AXIS_RSX] = normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRX, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
+	m_axes[AXIS_RSY] = normalize_absolute_axis(-m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRY, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
+
+	// translate LT/RT switches for arcade sticks/pads
+	m_switches[SWITCH_LT] = (0x80 <= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+	m_switches[SWITCH_RT] = (0x80 <= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bRightTrigger) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+
+	// translate POV hat for flight sticks
+	m_switches[SWITCH_HAT_UP] = (16'384 <= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRY) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+	m_switches[SWITCH_HAT_DOWN] = (-16'384 >= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRY) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+	m_switches[SWITCH_HAT_LEFT] = (-16'384 >= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRX) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+	m_switches[SWITCH_HAT_RIGHT] = (16'384 <= m_xinput_state.Gamepad.sThumbRX) ? 0xff : 0x00;
+
+	// translate rudder and throttle for flight sticks
+	m_axes[AXIS_RUDDER] = normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger, 0, 255);
+	m_axes[AXIS_THROTTLE] = normalize_absolute_axis(m_xinput_state.Gamepad.bRightTrigger, 0, 255);
+}
 
-const char *const xinput_button_names[] = {
-	"A",
-	"B",
-	"X",
-	"Y",
-	"LB",
-	"RB",
-	"LS",
-	"RS",
-	"Start",
-	"Back"
-};
+void xinput_joystick_device::reset()
+{
+	std::fill(std::begin(m_switches), std::end(m_switches), 0);
+	std::fill(std::begin(m_axes), std::end(m_axes), 0);
+}
 
-const input_item_id xinput_button_ids[] = {
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON1,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON2,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON3,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON4,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON5,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON6,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON7,
-	ITEM_ID_BUTTON8,
-	ITEM_ID_START,
-	ITEM_ID_SELECT
-};
+void xinput_joystick_device::configure()
+{
+	// TODO: don't add axes not present in capabilities
+	// TODO: proper support for dance mat, guitar and drum kit controllers
+
+	// default characteristics for a gamepad
+	char const *type_name = "unsupported";
+	char const *subtype_name = "unsupported";
+	bool lt_rt_button = false;
+	bool lt_rt_fullaxis = false;
+	bool rstick_hat = false;
+	char const *const *axis_names = AXIS_NAMES_GAMEPAD;
+	input_item_id const *axis_ids = AXIS_IDS_GAMEPAD;
+	char const *const *hat_names = HAT_NAMES_GAMEPAD;
+
+	// consider the device type to decide how to map controls
+	switch (m_capabilities.Type)
+	{
+	case XINPUT_DEVTYPE_GAMEPAD:
+		type_name = "game controller";
+		switch (m_capabilities.SubType)
+		{
+		case 0x00: // XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_UNKNOWN: work around MinGW header issues
+			subtype_name = "unknown";
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_GAMEPAD:
+			subtype_name = "gamepad";
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_WHEEL:
+			subtype_name = "wheel";
+			axis_names = AXIS_NAMES_WHEEL;
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_ARCADE_STICK:
+			subtype_name = "arcade stick";
+			lt_rt_button = true;
+			hat_names = HAT_NAMES_ARCADE_STICK;
+			break;
+		case 0x04: // XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_FLIGHT_STICK: work around MinGW header issues
+			subtype_name = "flight stick";
+			lt_rt_fullaxis = true;
+			rstick_hat = true;
+			axis_names = AXIS_NAMES_FLIGHT_STICK;
+			axis_ids = AXIS_IDS_FLIGHT_STICK;
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_DANCE_PAD:
+			subtype_name = "dance pad";
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_GUITAR:
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_GUITAR_ALTERNATE:
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_GUITAR_BASS:
+			subtype_name = "guitar";
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_DRUM_KIT:
+			subtype_name = "drum kit";
+			break;
+		case XINPUT_DEVSUBTYPE_ARCADE_PAD:
+			subtype_name = "arcade pad";
+			lt_rt_button = true;
+			break;
+		}
+		break;
+	}
+
+	// log some diagnostic information
+	osd_printf_verbose(
+			"Configuring XInput player %d type 0x%02X (%s) sub type 0x%02X (%s)\n",
+			m_player_index + 1,
+			m_capabilities.Type,
+			type_name,
+			m_capabilities.SubType,
+			subtype_name);
+	osd_printf_verbose(
+			"XInput switch capabilities A=%d B=%d X=%d Y=%d LB=%d RB=%d LSB=%d RSB=%d Start=%d Back=%d Up=%d Down=%d Left=%d Right=%d\n",
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_A) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_B) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_X) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_Y) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_SHOULDER) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_SHOULDER) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_THUMB) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_THUMB) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_START) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_BACK) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_UP) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_DOWN) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_LEFT) ? 1 : 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_RIGHT) ? 1 : 0);
+	osd_printf_verbose(
+			"XInput axis capabilities LT=0x%02X (%d-bit) RT=0x%02X (%d-bit) LSX=0x%04X (%d-bit) LSY=0x%04X (%d-bit) RSX=0x%04X (%d-bit) RSY=0x%04X (%d-bit)\n",
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger) << 24),
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.bRightTrigger,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.bRightTrigger) << 24),
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbLX,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(uint16_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbLX)) << 16),
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbLY,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(uint16_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbLY)) << 16),
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRX,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(uint16_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRX)) << 16),
+			m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRY,
+			count_leading_ones_32(uint32_t(uint16_t(m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRY)) << 16));
+
+	// add full-precision axes
+	for (unsigned i = 0; ((rstick_hat ? AXIS_LSY : AXIS_RSY) - AXIS_LSX) >= i; ++i)
+	{
+		device()->add_item(
+				axis_names[i],
+				axis_ids[i],
+				generic_axis_get_state<int32_t>,
+				&m_axes[AXIS_LSX + i]);
+	}
+
+	// add extra axes for flight sticks
+	if (lt_rt_fullaxis)
+	{
+		for (unsigned i = 0; (AXIS_THROTTLE - AXIS_RUDDER) >= i; ++i)
+		{
+			device()->add_item(
+					axis_names[4 + i],
+					axis_ids[4 + i],
+					generic_axis_get_state<int32_t>,
+					&m_axes[AXIS_RUDDER + i]);
+		}
+	}
+
+	// add hats
+	bool const hat_caps[]{
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_UP) != 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_DOWN) != 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_LEFT) != 0,
+			(m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_DPAD_RIGHT) != 0,
+			rstick_hat && m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRY,
+			rstick_hat && m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRY,
+			rstick_hat && m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRX,
+			rstick_hat && m_capabilities.Gamepad.sThumbRX };
+	for (unsigned i = 0; (SWITCH_HAT_RIGHT - SWITCH_DPAD_UP) >= i; ++i)
+	{
+		if (hat_caps[i])
+		{
+			device()->add_item(
+					hat_names[i],
+					input_item_id(ITEM_ID_HAT1UP + i), // matches up/down/left/right order
+					generic_button_get_state<uint8_t>,
+					&m_switches[SWITCH_DPAD_UP + i]);
+		}
+	}
+
+	// add buttons
+	std::tuple<unsigned, char const *, bool> const button_caps[]{
+			{ SWITCH_A,   "A",   (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_A) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_B,   "B",   (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_B) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_X,   "X",   (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_X) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_Y,   "Y",   (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_Y) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_LT,  "LT",  lt_rt_button && m_capabilities.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger },
+			{ SWITCH_RT,  "RT",  lt_rt_button && m_capabilities.Gamepad.bRightTrigger },
+			{ SWITCH_LB,  "LB",  (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_SHOULDER) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_RB,  "RB",  (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_SHOULDER) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_LSB, "LSB", (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_LEFT_THUMB) != 0 },
+			{ SWITCH_RSB, "RSB", (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_RIGHT_THUMB) != 0 } };
+	input_item_id button_id = ITEM_ID_BUTTON1;
+	for (auto [i, name, supported] : button_caps)
+	{
+		if (supported)
+		{
+			device()->add_item(
+					name,
+					button_id++,
+					generic_button_get_state<uint8_t>,
+					&m_switches[i]);
+		}
+	}
+
+	// add start/back
+	if (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_START)
+	{
+		device()->add_item(
+				"Start",
+				ITEM_ID_START,
+				generic_button_get_state<uint8_t>,
+				&m_switches[SWITCH_START]);
+	}
+	if (m_capabilities.Gamepad.wButtons & XINPUT_GAMEPAD_BACK)
+	{
+		device()->add_item(
+				"Back",
+				ITEM_ID_SELECT,
+				generic_button_get_state<uint8_t>,
+				&m_switches[SWITCH_BACK]);
+	}
+
+	// add triggers/pedals
+	if (!lt_rt_button && !lt_rt_fullaxis)
+	{
+		for (unsigned i = 0; (AXIS_RT - AXIS_LT) >= i; ++i)
+		{
+			device()->add_item(
+					axis_names[4 + i],
+					axis_ids[4 + i],
+					generic_axis_get_state<int32_t>,
+					&m_axes[AXIS_LT + i]);
+		}
+	}
+}
 
 
 //============================================================
@@ -134,16 +587,9 @@ class xinput_joystick_module : public wininput_module
 		{
 			XINPUT_STATE state = {0};
 
+			// allocate and link in a new device
 			if (m_xinput_helper->xinput_get_state(i, &state) == ERROR_SUCCESS)
-			{
-				// allocate and link in a new device
-				auto *devinfo = m_xinput_helper->create_xinput_device(machine, i, *this);
-				if (!devinfo)
-					continue;
-
-				// Configure each gamepad to add buttons and Axes, etc.
-				devinfo->configure();
-			}
+				m_xinput_helper->create_xinput_device(machine, i, *this);
 		}
 	}
 
@@ -174,141 +620,32 @@ int xinput_api_helper::initialize()
 //  create_xinput_device
 //============================================================
 
-xinput_joystick_device * xinput_api_helper::create_xinput_device(running_machine &machine, UINT index, wininput_module &module)
+device_info *xinput_api_helper::create_xinput_device(running_machine &machine, UINT index, wininput_module &module)
 {
+	// If we can't get the capabilities skip this device
 	XINPUT_CAPABILITIES caps = { 0 };
 	if (FAILED(xinput_get_capabilities(index, 0, &caps)))
-	{
-		// If we can't get the capabilities skip this device
 		return nullptr;
-	}
 
 	char device_name[16];
 	snprintf(device_name, sizeof(device_name), "XInput Player %u", index + 1);
 
 	// allocate the device object
-	auto &devinfo = module.devicelist().create_device<xinput_joystick_device>(machine, device_name, device_name, module, shared_from_this());
-
-	// Set the player ID
-	devinfo.xinput_state.player_index = index;
-
-	// Assign the caps we captured earlier
-	devinfo.xinput_state.caps = caps;
+	auto &devinfo = module.devicelist().create_device<xinput_joystick_device>(
+			machine,
+			device_name,
+			device_name,
+			module,
+			index,
+			caps,
+			shared_from_this());
+
+	// configure each controller to add buttons, axes, etc.
+	devinfo.configure();
 
 	return &devinfo;
 }
 
-//============================================================
-//  xinput_joystick_device
-//============================================================
-
-xinput_joystick_device::xinput_joystick_device(running_machine &machine, std::string &&name, std::string &&id, input_module &module, std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> helper) :
-	device_info(machine, std::string(name), std::string(id), DEVICE_CLASS_JOYSTICK, module),
-	gamepad({ { 0 } }),
-	xinput_state({ 0 }),
-	m_xinput_helper(helper),
-	m_configured(false)
-{
-}
-
-void xinput_joystick_device::poll()
-{
-	if (!m_configured)
-		return;
-
-	// poll the device first
-	HRESULT result = m_xinput_helper->xinput_get_state(xinput_state.player_index, &xinput_state.xstate);
-
-	// If we can't poll the device, skip
-	if (FAILED(result))
-		return;
-
-	// Copy the XState into State
-	// Start with the POV (DPAD)
-	for (int povindex = 0; povindex < XINPUT_MAX_POV; povindex++)
-	{
-		int currentPov = xinput_pov_dir[povindex];
-		gamepad.povs[povindex] = (xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.wButtons & currentPov) ? 0xFF : 0;
-	}
-
-	// Now do the buttons
-	for (int buttonindex = 0; buttonindex < XINPUT_MAX_BUTTONS; buttonindex++)
-	{
-		int currentButton = xinput_buttons[buttonindex];
-		gamepad.buttons[buttonindex] = (xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.wButtons & currentButton) ? 0xFF : 0;
-	}
-
-	// Now grab the axis values
-	// Each of the thumbstick axis members is a signed value between -32768 and 32767 describing the position of the thumbstick
-	// However, the Y axis values are inverted from what MAME expects, so negate the value
-	gamepad.left_thumb_x = normalize_absolute_axis(xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.sThumbLX, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
-	gamepad.left_thumb_y = normalize_absolute_axis(-xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.sThumbLY, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
-	gamepad.right_thumb_x = normalize_absolute_axis(xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.sThumbRX, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
-	gamepad.right_thumb_y = normalize_absolute_axis(-xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.sThumbRY, XINPUT_AXIS_MINVALUE, XINPUT_AXIS_MAXVALUE);
-
-	// Now the triggers, place them on half-axes (negative side)
-	gamepad.left_trigger = -normalize_absolute_axis(xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.bLeftTrigger, -255, 255);
-	gamepad.right_trigger = -normalize_absolute_axis(xinput_state.xstate.Gamepad.bRightTrigger, -255, 255);
-}
-
-void xinput_joystick_device::reset()
-{
-	memset(&gamepad, 0, sizeof(gamepad));
-}
-
-void xinput_joystick_device::configure()
-{
-	std::lock_guard<std::mutex> scope_lock(m_device_lock);
-
-	if (m_configured)
-		return;
-
-	// Add the axes
-	for (int axisnum = 0; axisnum < XINPUT_MAX_AXIS; axisnum++)
-	{
-		device()->add_item(
-			xinput_axis_name[axisnum],
-			xinput_axis_ids[axisnum],
-			generic_axis_get_state<LONG>,
-			&gamepad.left_thumb_x + axisnum);
-	}
-
-	// Populate the POVs
-	// For XBOX, we treat the DPAD as a hat switch
-	for (int povnum = 0; povnum < XINPUT_MAX_POV; povnum++)
-	{
-		device()->add_item(
-			xinput_pov_names[povnum],
-			input_item_id(ITEM_ID_HAT1UP + povnum), // matches up/down/left/right order
-			generic_button_get_state<BYTE>,
-			&gamepad.povs[povnum]);
-	}
-
-	// populate the buttons
-	for (int butnum = 0; butnum < XINPUT_MAX_BUTTONS; butnum++)
-	{
-		device()->add_item(
-			xinput_button_names[butnum],
-			xinput_button_ids[butnum],
-			generic_button_get_state<BYTE>,
-			&gamepad.buttons[butnum]);
-	}
-
-	device()->add_item(
-		"RT",
-		ITEM_ID_ADD_ABSOLUTE1,
-		generic_axis_get_state<LONG>,
-		&gamepad.right_trigger);
-
-	device()->add_item(
-		"LT",
-		ITEM_ID_ADD_ABSOLUTE2,
-		generic_axis_get_state<LONG>,
-		&gamepad.left_trigger);
-
-	m_configured = true;
-}
-
 #else // defined(OSD_WINDOWS)
 
 #include "input_module.h"
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.h b/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.h
index bd918f9aacb16..edf3dc23ce5fd 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.h
+++ b/src/osd/modules/input/input_xinput.h
@@ -7,15 +7,9 @@
 
 #include "modules/lib/osdlib.h"
 
-#include <cstdint>
-#include <memory>
-#include <mutex>
-#include <string_view>
-
 #include <xinput.h>
 
-
-class xinput_joystick_device;
+#include <memory>
 
 
 class xinput_api_helper : public std::enable_shared_from_this<xinput_api_helper>
@@ -24,7 +18,7 @@ class xinput_api_helper : public std::enable_shared_from_this<xinput_api_helper>
 	xinput_api_helper() { }
 
 	int initialize();
-	xinput_joystick_device *create_xinput_device(running_machine &machine, UINT index, wininput_module &module);
+	device_info *create_xinput_device(running_machine &machine, UINT index, wininput_module &module);
 
 	DWORD xinput_get_state(DWORD dwUserindex, XINPUT_STATE *pState) const
 	{
@@ -46,48 +40,4 @@ class xinput_api_helper : public std::enable_shared_from_this<xinput_api_helper>
 	xinput_get_caps_fn       XInputGetCapabilities = nullptr;
 };
 
-
-class xinput_joystick_device : public device_info
-{
-public:
-	static inline constexpr int XINPUT_MAX_POV = 4;
-	static inline constexpr int XINPUT_MAX_BUTTONS = 10;
-	static inline constexpr int XINPUT_MAX_AXIS = 4;
-
-	struct gamepad_state
-	{
-		BYTE    buttons[XINPUT_MAX_BUTTONS];
-		BYTE    povs[XINPUT_MAX_POV];
-		LONG    left_trigger;
-		LONG    right_trigger;
-		LONG    left_thumb_x;
-		LONG    left_thumb_y;
-		LONG    right_thumb_x;
-		LONG    right_thumb_y;
-	};
-
-	// state information for a gamepad; state must be first element
-	struct xinput_api_state
-	{
-		uint32_t                player_index;
-		XINPUT_STATE            xstate;
-		XINPUT_CAPABILITIES     caps;
-	};
-
-	gamepad_state      gamepad;
-	xinput_api_state   xinput_state;
-
-private:
-	std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> m_xinput_helper;
-	std::mutex                         m_device_lock;
-	bool                               m_configured;
-
-public:
-	xinput_joystick_device(running_machine &machine, std::string &&name, std::string &&id, input_module &module, std::shared_ptr<xinput_api_helper> helper);
-
-	void poll() override;
-	void reset() override;
-	void configure();
-};
-
 #endif // MAME_OSD_INPUT_INPUT_XINPUT_H
diff --git a/src/osd/modules/lib/osdobj_common.cpp b/src/osd/modules/lib/osdobj_common.cpp
index 6d6a865a9c7cf..d370bb0e65829 100644
--- a/src/osd/modules/lib/osdobj_common.cpp
+++ b/src/osd/modules/lib/osdobj_common.cpp
@@ -283,7 +283,8 @@ void osd_common_t::register_options()
 	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, LIGHTGUNINPUT_WIN32);
 	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, LIGHTGUN_NONE);
 
-	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_SDL);
+	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_SDLJOY);
+	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_SDLGAME);
 	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_WINHYBRID);
 	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_DINPUT);
 	REGISTER_MODULE(m_mod_man, JOYSTICKINPUT_XINPUT);