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Games that don't work in JSBeeb #140

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ahope1 opened this issue Dec 16, 2016 · 26 comments

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commented Dec 16, 2016

I wanted to try to list all games that are known not to work in JSBeeb, in the hope that the info is useful for future development (and isn't just annoying!).


Games that don't work because of possible timing issues in JSBeeb

Uridium
Link: http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=557
Info: #130

Terra Australis
Link: on bbc.godbolt.org
Info: #125 (comment)

Ghouls Of Azzod
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk
Info: on Stardot
Workaround: insert *EXEC !BOOT into kbd buffer with patch

Dragonsoft Explorer
Link: on bbc.godbolt.org
Info: on Stardot

The Attic Bug in SameGame
Link: http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1891
Info: on Stardot

Get Set Santa
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk
Info: on Stardot
Workaround: insert *EXEC !BOOT into kbd buffer with patch

Mystery of the Java Star
Link: on Stardot
Info: Game freezes up at start of Chapter 2. (You can skip Chapter 1 and go straight to Chapter 2 if you want to see for yourself.)


Games that don't work because they attempt to read disc-sector headers

Puff
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk (try to start a new game)
Info: on Stardot
Workaround: boot in Master mode


Games that don't work because they need DFS 1.2

Oddjob
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk
Info: #46 (comment)
Workaround: load DNFS using @patch


Games that don't work possibly because they need Sideways RAM in Model B mode

Dunjunz
Link: http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1068
Info: below, and on Stardot, and below again
Update: http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13214&p=172123#p172123


Games that don't work possibly because they need a ROM in a write-protected Sideways RAM slot

[Moved Dragonsoft Explorer to the "timing issues" section, above]


Games that don't work because they need write-access to the game disc

Zen
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk

Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 1)
Link: on bbcmicro.co.uk
Info: on Stardot
Also:
**_Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 2)
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 3)
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 4)_**

Pip's Island Adventure
Info: on Stardot

@mattgodbolt mattgodbolt added the bug label Dec 16, 2016

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commented Dec 16, 2016

This is great: thanks!

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commented Dec 17, 2016

Added Dunjunz to the list above, speculating that it fails because of a lack of Sideways RAM in Model B mode in JSBeeb. Am I correct?

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commented Dec 17, 2016

I see Dunjunz fails in a different way if you add
model=master
to the URL. If the game needs sideways RAM, is Master the right option? Or does it really need a Beeb with sideways RAM? That would be a third-party option...

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commented Dec 17, 2016

@BigEd I think Dunjunz needs a Model B with Sideways RAM (more info).

Actually, Model B mode in JSBeeb does seem to provide Sideways RAM, so maybe the problem is that the SWRAM isn't in the slots that Dunjunz looks in?:

http://bbc.godbolt.org/?autoboot&disc=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tbuoek1geoq0dg9/SWRAMtricky.ssd&rom=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ocqrpii2qkbf2xs/ARM100.ROM

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commented Dec 17, 2016

Ah, good spot. I see the code here:

// TODO: semi-bplus-style to get swram for exile hardcoded here

So we have different swram banks in beeb mode and master mode.

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commented Dec 17, 2016

Aha! Thanks for the link to the hardcoded SWRAM slots. Would it break Exile and/or Dunjunz if all possible ROM/RAM slots (apart from the ones for BASIC and a DFS) were made available as SWRAM?

@Pernod70

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commented Dec 17, 2016

For games like Exile, Dunjunz, UIM, Holed Out, etc. why are we not just running them in Master mode? They were intended for Master or BBC with SWRAM, so instead of hacking them to work with whatever SWRAM configuration we may have in B mode just run them as intended on a Master.

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commented Dec 17, 2016

@Pernod70 I don't think we're trying to hack the actual games.*

Rather, we're suggesting that Matt might be able to make JSBeeb more configurable, probably via more URL params, so that we can create, at will, instances of JSBeeb with different SWRAM slots available, or different DFS versions, etc.

Re Dunjunz, as BigEd commented above, in JSBeeb it doesn't work in Master mode either! So something in JSBeeb does seem to need changing.


* I know the discussion over on Stardot might give a different impression. But I think in the first instance we should try to leave the games unaltered and "fix" JSBeeb, if at all possible.

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commented Dec 17, 2016

Thanks everyone for the lively discussion. As you can tell from the comment in the models.js file, along with #137 I've realised the current set up isn't perfect. In fact the whole thing was set up the way it is primarily so I can play Exile on the default "BBC B" settings :-)

I'm very much against patching games etc, but very much in favour of having more choice in the model selection (DFS versions, sideways RAM, ROMs etc).

The issue with Dunjunz appears to be something else that I'll need to dig further in to.

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commented Dec 18, 2016

Yeah, I'm no longer sure that Dunjunz fails in JSBeeb because of SWRAM issues.

If Dunjunz can't find suitable SWRAM slots, it normally quits after printing this message:

Dun

But that message isn't displayed in JSBeeb, so it looks like Dunjunz is able to find suitable SWRAM in JSBeeb..?

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commented Dec 19, 2016

@Pernod70 - I am making changes so http://bbcmicro.co.uk can run games in master mode; actually so you can pass custom parameters to jsbeeb per disc image. It is still in progress. Hopefully I will get some time over the holidays to complete this work. I suspect the result of this and #112 will result in a number of disc images that require custom boot parameters.

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commented Jul 12, 2017

Added an entry for DragonSoft Explorer, which I think needs a write-protected Sideways ROM slot:

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=598&p=175066#p175066

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commented Jul 12, 2017

Thanks for the update @ahope1

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commented Jul 12, 2017

Thanks, @mattgodbolt

I've also updated the entry for Dunjunz, as I've now found a version of Dunjunz that does seem to work in JSBeeb:

http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13214&p=172123#p172123

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commented Dec 9, 2017

Updated the first post in this thread with more accurate info on the game Dragonsoft Explorer because it still doesn't work in JSBeeb, even though someone has now produced a version of the game that doesn't need a write-protected ROM.

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commented Dec 10, 2017

Thanks @ahope1 . I really hope I can find time to look in to some of these!

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commented Dec 19, 2017

@mattgodbolt Updated the first post again because a new failing game has been discovered: "The Attic Bug In SameGame".

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commented Dec 22, 2017

Another update to the first post in this thread, to add Get Set Santa.

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commented Dec 22, 2017

Updated the first post again to add Pip's Island Adventure because it needs write-access to the disc. It would be really useful if there were a URL parameter that we could pass to enable writing to the local in-browser cached copy of a disc-image.

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commented Dec 22, 2017

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commented Dec 22, 2017

ahem. Yes I have now! I'll delete my ignorant comment...

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commented Feb 7, 2018

As of change 5b9135f discs are read/write by default (losing changes silently on window close). Hopefully that fixes up the first group of games.

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commented Feb 10, 2018

@mattgodbolt Thanks, Matt! That's great. Any chance you could make disc-drive noises optional? That would be ideal for bbcmicro.co.uk, which currently uses an earlier version of JSBeeb which doesn't implement the noises and thus loads games "instantly"!

Currently, the game Zen (which happens to need write-access) is painfully slow to load if you use the latest version of JSBeeb:

https://bbc.godbolt.org/?autoboot&disc=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/us3zfxbufy0yutw/Disc111-ZenSTD.ssd

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commented May 14, 2018

Updated first post in this thread to add details about Puff, another game that doesn't work in JSBeeb. (But it does work in BeebEm.)

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commented May 16, 2018

I've been told that JSBeeb's inability to run Puff might be down to failed attempts to read disc-sector headers:

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15088&p=203176#p203190

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commented Sep 21, 2018

Updated the first post in this thread to add details about Mystery Of The Java Star, another game that doesn't work in JSBeeb. (But it does work in BeebEm.)

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