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Deprecate all emacswiki packages. #2342

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milkypostman opened this Issue Jan 3, 2015 · 65 comments

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milkypostman commented Jan 3, 2015

We should avoid all emacswiki packages in MELPA.

At this point we should also avoid adding further wiki packages.

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purcell commented Jan 3, 2015

Amen.

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syl20bnr commented Jan 7, 2015

Will you provide somewhere the complete list of the future deprecated packages ?

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PythonNut commented Jan 10, 2015

Could deprecated packages be pulled from emacsmirror instead? I've talked to Drew Adams, and he wants to keep icicles on emacswiki.

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tarsius commented Jan 11, 2015

Will you provide somewhere the complete list of the future deprecated packages ?

M-x rgrep RET :fetcher wiki RET

Could deprecated packages be pulled from emacsmirror instead?

For that see #2128.

I believe that while pretty much everyone around here actually involved in the mirroring and packaging of elisp thinks that the wiki no longer is a good place to distribute libraries, dropping support for it is seen more as a long time goal. Just doing it now is also an option, but I don't think the hope that this would cause the remaining libraries to be migrated to some vcs repository sooner, is really justified.

I've talked to Drew Adams, and he wants to keep icicles on emacswiki.

We've all been there.

dunn added a commit to dunn/melpa that referenced this issue Dec 26, 2015

dunn added a commit to dunn/melpa that referenced this issue Dec 26, 2015

jeffgran added a commit to jeffgran/melpa that referenced this issue Jan 5, 2016

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glyph commented Feb 10, 2016

Apropos of the last commit referenced above, it looks like the deprecation is already done - is this issue just waiting for the last existing emacswiki recipe to actually be deleted?

@tarsius tarsius self-assigned this Mar 12, 2017

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tarsius commented Mar 12, 2017

I've assigned this to myself as a way to keep track of it. This does not necessarily mean I will do something.

@tarsius tarsius added policy and removed feature recipes labels Mar 12, 2017

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tarsius commented Apr 5, 2017

This has come up on reddit again. That doesn't really change anything, but somehow it pushed me closer to advocating a clear cut.

Ultimately this is up to @purcell and @milkypostman. Also I think that even if you decide to drop support for the Emacswiki, we shouldn't rush anything. (But we shouldn't let it sit for another two years either.)

I'm going to produce some data on which non-wiki packages would be affected by this. Might take me a while until I get to that though, because I want to address some related issues in epkg and the Emacsmirror first (since there I am the maintainer, not just a somewhat regular contributor).

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milkypostman commented Apr 5, 2017

I think I posted before I want to remove all emacswiki packages because of this exact threat. When I do need a package from emacswiki I manually download it, I don't use melpa because I am concerned about this.

I'm happy to have them removed. It seems that now is indeed the time. The percentage of emacswiki packages is low. If we remove them and people complain, I'm sure we can work it out. I.e., have someone move the package to github or other dvcs.

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alphapapa commented Apr 5, 2017

I'm not sure that I even have any wiki-sourced packages installed, because the very idea repulses me. ;) But as a member of the community, I would appreciate them being removed for the good of all of us. I definitely think we should be proactive rather than waiting for something bad to happen. Let's just bite the bullet, and anyone who really needs wiki-sourced packages can 1) keep using what they have installed, or 2) install them manually. I really don't want MELPA to be the subject of an LWN security article someday...

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tarsius commented Apr 5, 2017

Here's a first table listing wiki packages that non-wiki packages depend on. It does not include any indirect dependers and it is based on automatically extracted dependency information, not the Package-Requires header.

| Dependee (27)    | Author                 | Depender                      | Fetcher | Author                  |
|------------------+------------------------+-------------------------------+---------+-------------------------|
| dirtree          | Ye Wenbin              | prosjekt                      | github  | Austin Bingham          |
| ert-expectations | rubikitch              | caskxy                        | github  | Hiroaki Otsu            |
| ert-expectations | rubikitch              | coverage                      | github  | Kieran Trezona-le Comte |
| ert-expectations | rubikitch              | creds                         | github  | Antoine R. Dumont       |
| ert-expectations | rubikitch              | req-package                   | github  | Edward Knyshov          |
| faces+           | Drew Adams             | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer             |
| filesets+        | Drew Adams             | helm-filesets                 | github  | Graham Clark            |
| findr            | David Bakhash          | jump                          | github  | Eric Schulte            |
| fit-frame        | Drew Adams             | anything-project              | github  |                         |
| font-lock+       | Drew Adams             | all-the-icons                 | github  | Dominic Charlesworth    |
| frame-fns        | Drew Adams             | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer             |
| hexrgb           | Drew Adams             | jabber                        | git     |                         |
| hexrgb           | Drew Adams             | on-screen                     | github  | Michael Heerdegen       |
| hexrgb           | Drew Adams             | paper-theme                   | github  | Göktuğ Kayaalp          |
| hide-lines       |                        | syslog-mode                   | github  | Harley Gorrell          |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | cider-eval-sexp-fu            | github  | Sylvain Benner          |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | eval-sexp-fu                  | github  | Takeshi Banse           |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | evil-extra-operator           | github  | Dewdrops                |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | evil-search-highlight-persist | github  | Juanjo Alvarez          |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | nrepl-eval-sexp-fu            | github  | Takeshi Banse           |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | php-boris-minor-mode          | github  | steckerhalter           |
| highlight        | Drew Adams             | sonic-pi                      | github  | Joseph Wilk             |
| http-post-simple | Tom Schutzer-Weissmann | org-readme                    | github  | Matthew L. Fidler       |
| http-post-simple | Tom Schutzer-Weissmann | tumble                        | github  | Federico Builes         |
| key-chord        |                        | buffer-flip                   | github  | Russell Black           |
| key-chord        |                        | use-package-chords            | github  | justin talbott          |
| lacarte          | Drew Adams             | helm                          | github  | Thierry Volpiatto       |
| levenshtein      | Aaron S. Hawley        | cmake-ide                     | github  | Atila Neves             |
| levenshtein      | Aaron S. Hawley        | ten-hundred-mode              | github  |                         |
| look-mode        |                        | look-dired                    | github  | Joe Bloggs              |
| menu-bar+        | Drew Adams             | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer             |
| multi-term       | Andy Stewart           | elscreen-multi-term           | github  | wamei                   |
| multi-term       | Andy Stewart           | helm-mt                       | github  | Didier Deshommes        |
| multi-term       | Andy Stewart           | navorski                      | github  |                         |
| shell-command    | TSUCHIYA Masatoshi     | anything                      | git     | Tamas Patrovics         |
| shell-history    | rubikitch              | anything                      | git     | Tamas Patrovics         |
| showtip          | Ye Wenbin              | sdcv                          | github  | Andy Stewart            |
| sr-speedbar      | Sebastian Rose         | ppd-sr-speedbar               | github  | Robert Dallas Gray      |
| sr-speedbar      | Sebastian Rose         | projectile-speedbar           | github  | Anshul Verma            |
| strings          | Drew Adams             | ergoemacs-mode                | github  | David Capello           |
| thingatpt+       | Drew Adams             | el-spice                      | github  | Vedang Manerikar        |
| transpose-frame  | S. Irie                | nu-mode                       | github  |                         |
| w32-browser      | Emacs Wiki, Drew Adams | nsis-mode                     | github  | Matthew L. Fidler       |
| yaoddmuse        |                        | company                       | github  | Nikolaj Schumacher      |
| yaoddmuse        |                        | org-readme                    | github  | Matthew L. Fidler       |

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milkypostman commented Apr 5, 2017

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alphapapa commented Apr 5, 2017

possibly we should mirror those packages. tarsius would have to say though.

I would strongly prefer that, especially if the mirrors were manually updated. I realize that's a chore, but I feel like leaving anything pulling from any kind of wiki is just a bad idea on principle, even if they say they have locked the pages in some way. What if the wiki were compromised someday? I guess the same could be said for any server being pulled from, even GitHub, but I still feel that wikis are generally not well engineered compared to other software and are just more risky.

(I realize I'm just a noisy back seat driver here, so I will watch silently if you're tired of my chiming in.)

tarsius added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 5, 2017

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tarsius commented Apr 5, 2017

I have added 15 of these packages to the Emacsorphanage, updated the Emacsmirror to mirror from there, and updated Melpa to import from there too.

For more information about the Emacsmirror and the Emacsorphanage see https://emacsmirror.org. For information about packages in the orphanage see https://emacsmirror.net/stats/emacsorphanage.html (but note that I have not updated that yet since adding these packages).

Most of these package did not see any changes in several years. A few were modified about a year ago by someone other than the author/maintainer.

If some edits one of these packages on the Emacswiki going forward, then Melpa and the Emacsmirror won't pick up those changes - but that's kind of the point. If someone (including the person who previously maintained it (to some extend) on the Emacswiki) would like to maintain one of these packages, then they should contact me.

These repositories contain the full history though in most cases with bad commit messages.

Someone(tm) should review these packages for security risks they may already contain.

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alphapapa commented Apr 5, 2017

Thank you for doing that, Jonas!

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tarsius commented Apr 5, 2017

Did the same for three more packages. Here is an updated table:

| Dependee (12) | Author     | Depender                      | Fetcher | Author               |
|---------------+------------+-------------------------------+---------+----------------------|
| faces+        | Drew Adams | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer          |
| filesets+     | Drew Adams | helm-filesets                 | github  | Graham Clark         |
| fit-frame     | Drew Adams | anything-project              | github  |                      |
| font-lock+    | Drew Adams | all-the-icons                 | github  | Dominic Charlesworth |
| frame-fns     | Drew Adams | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer          |
| hexrgb        | Drew Adams | jabber                        | git     |                      |
| hexrgb        | Drew Adams | on-screen                     | github  | Michael Heerdegen    |
| hexrgb        | Drew Adams | paper-theme                   | github  | Göktuğ Kayaalp       |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | cider-eval-sexp-fu            | github  | Sylvain Benner       |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | eval-sexp-fu                  | github  | Takeshi Banse        |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | evil-extra-operator           | github  | Dewdrops             |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | evil-search-highlight-persist | github  | Juanjo Alvarez       |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | nrepl-eval-sexp-fu            | github  | Takeshi Banse        |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | php-boris-minor-mode          | github  | steckerhalter        |
| highlight     | Drew Adams | sonic-pi                      | github  | Joseph Wilk          |
| lacarte       | Drew Adams | helm                          | github  | Thierry Volpiatto    |
| menu-bar+     | Drew Adams | floobits                      | github  | Geoff Greer          |
| strings       | Drew Adams | ergoemacs-mode                | github  | David Capello        |
| thingatpt+    | Drew Adams | el-spice                      | github  | Vedang Manerikar     |
| yaoddmuse     |            | company                       | github  | Nikolaj Schumacher   |
| yaoddmuse     |            | org-readme                    | github  | Matthew L. Fidler    |
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tarsius commented Apr 5, 2017

And here is a table of all packages from the wiki, sorted by author.

| Author (44)                   | Package                 |
|-------------------------------+-------------------------|
|                               | ac-dabbrev              |
|                               | aok                     |
|                               | batch-mode              |
|                               | better-registers        |
|                               | csv-nav                 |
|                               | dropdown-list           |
|                               | eldoc-extension         |
|                               | fuzzy-format            |
|                               | fuzzy-match             |
|                               | goto-chg                |
|                               | jira                    |
|                               | list-processes+         |
|                               | point-undo              |
|                               | redo+                   |
|                               | sqlplus                 |
|                               | summarye                |
|                               | wimpy-del               |
|                               | yaoddmuse               |
| Adrian Kubala                 | buffer-stack            |
| Alex Schroeder                | disk                    |
| Alex Schroeder                | typing                  |
| André Riemann                 | centered-cursor-mode    |
| André Riemann                 | fliptext                |
| Andy Stewart                  | auto-install            |
| Andy Stewart                  | chm-view                |
| Andy Stewart                  | dired-sort              |
| Andy Stewart                  | irfc                    |
| Arni Magnusson                | dos                     |
| Benjamin Rutt                 | backup-each-save        |
| Benjamin Rutt                 | top-mode                |
| Binu Jose Philip, Drew Adams  | w32browser-dlgopen      |
| Chris Stucchio                | multi-eshell            |
| Christoph Conrad              | highlight-current-line  |
| Davis Herring                 | unbound                 |
| Dino Chiesa                   | rfringe                 |
| Dino Chiesa                   | tfs                     |
| Dino Chiesa, Alex Henning     | thesaurus               |
| Drew Adams                    | apropos-fn+var          |
| Drew Adams                    | apu                     |
| Drew Adams                    | autofit-frame           |
| Drew Adams                    | browse-kill-ring+       |
| Drew Adams                    | cmds-menu               |
| Drew Adams                    | col-highlight           |
| Drew Adams                    | crosshairs              |
| Drew Adams                    | cursor-chg              |
| Drew Adams                    | cus-edit+               |
| Drew Adams                    | dired+                  |
| Drew Adams                    | dired-details+          |
| Drew Adams                    | dired-sort-menu+        |
| Drew Adams                    | doremi                  |
| Drew Adams                    | doremi-cmd              |
| Drew Adams                    | doremi-frm              |
| Drew Adams                    | doremi-mac              |
| Drew Adams                    | eyedropper              |
| Drew Adams                    | face-remap+             |
| Drew Adams                    | facemenu+               |
| Drew Adams                    | faces+                  |
| Drew Adams                    | files+                  |
| Drew Adams                    | filesets+               |
| Drew Adams                    | find-dired+             |
| Drew Adams                    | finder+                 |
| Drew Adams                    | fit-frame               |
| Drew Adams                    | font-lock+              |
| Drew Adams                    | frame-cmds              |
| Drew Adams                    | frame-fns               |
| Drew Adams                    | grep+                   |
| Drew Adams                    | header2                 |
| Drew Adams                    | help+                   |
| Drew Adams                    | help-fns+               |
| Drew Adams                    | help-mode+              |
| Drew Adams                    | hexrgb                  |
| Drew Adams                    | hide-comnt              |
| Drew Adams                    | highlight               |
| Drew Adams                    | highlight-chars         |
| Drew Adams                    | hl-defined              |
| Drew Adams                    | hl-line+                |
| Drew Adams                    | hl-spotlight            |
| Drew Adams                    | icicles                 |
| Drew Adams                    | icomplete+              |
| Drew Adams                    | imenu+                  |
| Drew Adams                    | info+                   |
| Drew Adams                    | isearch+                |
| Drew Adams                    | isearch-prop            |
| Drew Adams                    | lacarte                 |
| Drew Adams                    | lib-requires            |
| Drew Adams                    | macros+                 |
| Drew Adams                    | mb-depth+               |
| Drew Adams                    | menu-bar+               |
| Drew Adams                    | misc-cmds               |
| Drew Adams                    | misc-fns                |
| Drew Adams                    | modeline-char           |
| Drew Adams                    | modeline-posn           |
| Drew Adams                    | mouse+                  |
| Drew Adams                    | mouse3                  |
| Drew Adams                    | naked                   |
| Drew Adams                    | narrow-indirect         |
| Drew Adams                    | novice+                 |
| Drew Adams                    | oneonone                |
| Drew Adams                    | palette                 |
| Drew Adams                    | pp+                     |
| Drew Adams                    | pp-c-l                  |
| Drew Adams                    | pretty-lambdada         |
| Drew Adams                    | replace+                |
| Drew Adams                    | reveal-next             |
| Drew Adams                    | second-sel              |
| Drew Adams                    | showkey                 |
| Drew Adams                    | simple+                 |
| Drew Adams                    | strings                 |
| Drew Adams                    | subr+                   |
| Drew Adams                    | synonyms                |
| Drew Adams                    | thing-cmds              |
| Drew Adams                    | thingatpt+              |
| Drew Adams                    | thumb-frm               |
| Drew Adams                    | tool-bar+               |
| Drew Adams                    | ucs-cmds                |
| Drew Adams                    | window+                 |
| Drew Adams                    | zones                   |
| Drew Adams                    | zoom-frm                |
| Drew Adams, Lennart Borgman   | wid-edit+               |
| Drew Adams, Thierry Volpiatto | bookmark+               |
| Francis J. Wright             | dired-sort-menu         |
| Igor Sikaček                  | awk-it                  |
| Jan Rehders                   | hideshowvis             |
| Joe Bloggs                    | bs-ext                  |
| Jonathan Arkell               | todochiku               |
| Kahlil (Kal) HODGSON          | plsql                   |
| Kahlil (Kal) HODGSON          | swbuff-x                |
| Kahlil (Kal) HODGSON          | tidy                    |
| Kai Grossjohann               | message-x               |
| Karl Chen                     | apache-mode             |
| Kevin Rodgers                 | auto-capitalize         |
| Kevin Rodgers                 | igrep                   |
| Kumar Appaiah                 | muttrc-mode             |
| Martin Rudalics               | speck                   |
| Mathias Dahl                  | hide-region             |
| Michael Cook                  | cygwin-mount            |
| Miles Bader                   | echo-bell               |
| Rafal Jedruszek               | highlight-tail          |
| Rick Bielawski                | anchored-transpose      |
| Rick Bielawski                | column-marker           |
| Rob Giardina                  | dired-details           |
| Ryan Davis and Phil Hagelberg | project-local-variables |
| Scott Frazer                  | etags-select            |
| Scott Frazer                  | etags-table             |
| Seiji Zenitani                | smart-compile           |
| Simon Belak                   | sentence-highlight      |
| Taiki SUGAWARA                | highlight-cl            |
| Taiki SUGAWARA                | vline                   |
| Takeshi Banse                 | el-swank-fuzzy          |
| Trey Jackson                  | framemove               |
| Vinicius Jose Latorre         | ascii                   |
| Vinicius Jose Latorre         | blank-mode              |
| Yoshida Masato                | gnus-spotlight          |
| khiker                        | ruby-block              |
| rubikitch                     | lispxmp                 |
| rubikitch                     | minor-mode-hack         |
| rubikitch                     | recentf-ext             |
| rubikitch                     | screenshot              |
| rubikitch                     | sequential-command      |
| rubikitch                     | sticky                  |
| rubikitch                     | usage-memo              |
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alphapapa commented Aug 20, 2017

@snogglethorpe Size isn't relevant, because anyone can edit the code on Emacswiki and replace it with anything. A one-line defsubst on Emacswiki that is automatically packaged and made available could be replaced with a multi-line function that does anything to the user's computer, and it could be automatically packaged and then installed by unsuspecting users before anyone notices, and they would be exploited.

The issue isn't size but access control and verification.

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raxod502 commented Aug 20, 2017

@snogglethorpe EmacsWiki is fine as a place for random snippets that people paste into their init-files. However, it is completely unacceptable as an upstream source for a package manager.

I believe that you are concerned about the loss of the EmacsWiki environment as a place to put snippets, which is not something that would happen if we stopped people putting packages on EmacsWiki.

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tarsius commented Sep 25, 2017

@kensanata you probably overlooked this above because you were primarily invited to this discussion as the maintainer of the Emacswiki, but two of your own packages are still being imported from the wiki.

  • disk
  • typing

Assuming these should remain available, could you please move them to separate repositories on github?

Thanks!

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kensanata commented Sep 25, 2017

@tarsius tarsius added the emacswiki label Oct 2, 2017

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glyph commented Nov 12, 2017

October seems to have come and gone :)

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purcell added a commit that referenced this issue Nov 16, 2017

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purcell commented Nov 16, 2017

Thanks @kensanata - updated in e6e7569.

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josteink commented Nov 16, 2017

I've updated code for a package currently hosted on Emacs-wiki, and I can't see the changes resulting in a new package for the latest MELPA builds.

Is this related to Emacswiki now being deprecated? Does that apply to existing packages using that recipie too?

Or could there be other reasons too? (For reference, this is the package I'm talking about).

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tarsius commented Nov 16, 2017

Yes. Also see melpa/package-build#9.

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josteink commented Nov 16, 2017

Thanks for the quick reply. That’s very informative.

Has anyone had any thoughts on what a good migration path from Emacswiki should look like, on a wider scale?

Am I now forced to “git” this code and become “official” maintainer for yet another abandoned package?

Or is someone planning to create a wider Github-organization where a bigger collective of co-maintainers from the Emacs-community can help out, without forcing individual users to take/claim ownership?

Is this being discussed anywhere? If so I’d love some pointers and links :)

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tarsius commented Nov 16, 2017

Is this being discussed anywhere? If so I’d love some pointers and links :)

Click on the emacswiki label.

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josteink commented Nov 16, 2017

Never mind. I see you have made some great efforts, and I see batch-mode being superseded by bat-mode supplies by Emacs core.

I guess all my needs are covered, all my issues resolved and I have no further questions.

Thanks for taking time to respond anyhow!

@tarsius tarsius referenced this issue Dec 15, 2017

Closed

@kensanata packages on the Emacswiki #3

17 of 17 tasks complete
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milkypostman commented Jan 24, 2018

i have inadvertently deleted all emacswiki packages. so we may as well delete the recipes???

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syl20bnr commented Jan 24, 2018

@milkypostman did you also delete all the other packages :-D Currently MELPA is listing 757 packages only and there are a lot of unavailable packages when installing Spacemacs.

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syl20bnr commented Jan 24, 2018

Just saw the tweet

image

;-)

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tarsius commented Jan 24, 2018

i have inadvertently deleted all emacswiki packages. so we may as well delete the recipes???

Since #5008 is specifically about that, I am taking the discussion there (starting at #5008 (comment)).

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tarsius commented Jan 25, 2018

The recipes for wiki packages are no more.

@tarsius tarsius closed this Jan 25, 2018

shackra added a commit to shackra/emacs that referenced this issue Mar 29, 2018

kai2nenobu added a commit to kai2nenobu/.emacs.d that referenced this issue Apr 2, 2018

EmacsWiki由来のパッケージをダウンロードしないようにする
melpa/melpa#2342
にあるように、EmacsWikiにソースが置かれているパッケージは、セキュリティに懸念があるので
削除されることになった。なのでMELPAからインストールできなくなってしまった。

dired+とかは特に使いたいのだがまだ回避策がわからないので、ひとまずダウンロードしないと明示しておく。
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wyuenho commented May 20, 2018

Ahhhh I just realized zoom-frm was dropped from Melpa as a result of this. If I file a PR to fetch from emacmirror for zoom-frm, will this be accepted?

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tarsius commented May 20, 2018

No. The reason the Emacswiki packages were dropped from Melpa is that anyone can edit any package on the Emacswiki, which is a security "risk" (aka no security at all). Getting these packages indirectly through the Emacsmirror doesn't change anything about that. (Also see the forth message above and follow the link).

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