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Proposal: Update the corner radii of common controls to be consistent with web and app style direction #524

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sravya03 opened this issue Apr 4, 2019 · 132 comments

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@sravya03
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commented Apr 4, 2019

Proposal: Update default control styles with rounded corners and make them easy to customize


Corner Radius (aka Rounded Corner) How-To document PR is created.

This will be added to docs.microsoft.com as a documentation.
It will be a new page under https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/style/.

Ask to community:
I am trying out writing a little more "background explanation (WHY)" that our customers have expressed we provide with our documentation in some of our focus groups. I would like feedback as this does not follow normal documentation pattern.

Are those extra information useful/helpful, not relevant, other info missing, etc.?


Summary

Update default control styles with rounded corners and make them easy to customize. Developers should not have to retemplate the controls to "unround" the corners or round them further.

Rationale

Problems today:

  • XAML controls are inconsistent with how web and mobile apps are evolving – this highlights the inconsistency across app ecosystem on Windows when these UI are used intermixed with each other.

  • There are many different levels of corner rounding in the market today but the way XAML controls are architected require those developers who wants to update to retemplate all the controls, locking them to a version of the control that will not be able to take advantage of future updates as easily.

Functional Requirements

# Feature Priority
1 When developers use common controls as is, all the controls are consistent with each other. (Update default control style.) Must
1.1 Users experience form controls (e.g. button, text box, etc.) with rounded corner. Must
1.2 Users experience popup/transient menu type controls (e.g. flyout, CommandBarFlyout, etc.) with rounded corner and they look appropriate with shadow. Must
1.3 Users experience "bars" with rounded corners (e.g. selection bar, scrollbar, etc.) Must
2 When developers use the controls in a normal use case, there will be no perceived performance issue or slowness in rendering Must
3 Developers have flexibility to style values of corner radii without retemplating. (This is tracked by #684.) Should
4 Control update feel coherent with the same controls used by Fabric, Edge, and Xbox Should
5 Users experience fully circular slider thumb that feels more touch friendly. Should
6 Developers are able to round the popup/transient menu type controls' corner further and users do not experience visual glitch Could
7 Users experience rounded keyboard focus rectangle Could
8 Controls with rounded corners are rendered in performant way when they are used in more stressful/less normal use cases (e.g. 100s of rounded corners are used at once, large surface has rounded corner that is persistent (i.e. not temporary or transient)) Could
9 Update controls to render with more performant ninegrid so there are less measurable performant impact (this is measurable by data, but still not perceivable by user as in number 4 above) Could
10 Make it possible to round the inner and outer lines of border individually rounded vs. not Won't
11 When performance is measured, there is no difference between when the corner is not round vs. round (this is physically impossible) Won't

Important Notes

There are three categories of changes being proposed (requirement number 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3) and here are mock up of those.

Here are relevant visual comp files: https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml-specs/tree/user/chigy/roundedcorner/active/RoundedCorner/ImageFiles

Courtesy of @mrlacey , we have this easier to view version of the above file folder: https://github.com/mrlacey/microsoft-ui-xaml-specs/blob/RoundedCornerVisualizations/active/RoundedCorner/ImageFiles/index.md

Form type controls (req 1.1)
• Button
• CheckBox
• ComboBox
• DropDownButton
• Slider
• SplitButton
• ToggleButton
• ToggleSplitButton
• Flipview
• GridView
• ListView
• TreeView
• ContentDialog
• AutoSuggestBox
• PasswordBox
• RichEditBox
• TextBox
• DatePicker
• CalendarDatePicker
• Tab control

Popup/transient menu type controls (req 1.2)
• CalendarDatePicker
• DatePicker
• TimePicker
• Flyout
• TeachingTip
• ToolTip
• DropDownButton
• SplitButton
• Slider
• AutoSuggestBox
• CommandBarFlyout
• MenuFlyout
• ComboBox
• ColorPicker
• MediaPlayerElement
• ContentDialog
• MenuBar
• ToggleSplitButton

Bars (req 1.3)
• NavigationView
• Pivot
• ScrollIndicator
• ProgressBar
• Slider
• ColorPicker
• MediaPlayerElement
• WebView (not a part of XAML change)

User Feedback

Windows 10 Reddit Thread

Open Questions

@msft-github-bot msft-github-bot added this to New proposal in Feature tracking Apr 4, 2019

@msft-github-bot msft-github-bot added this to Needs triage in Controls Triage Apr 4, 2019

@chigy chigy self-assigned this Apr 4, 2019

@chrisglein chrisglein moved this from Needs triage to Approved - Assigned in Controls Triage Apr 5, 2019

@jevansaks jevansaks moved this from Approved - Assigned to Approved in Controls Triage May 7, 2019

@ryandemopoulos ryandemopoulos moved this from Freezer to Front Burner in Feature tracking May 9, 2019

@msft-github-bot msft-github-bot added this to Spec in progress in API review status May 9, 2019

@mdtauk

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commented May 14, 2019

This should be a wider project than just the rounded corners on buttons etc as used by Fabric.

  • Buttons
  • Spinners/ProgressRing
  • Indeterminate ProgressBar
  • Checkboxes & Radio Buttons
  • ComboBoxes and TextFields
    And so on.

Xbox will continue to have different requirements, but with a new set of Xbox consoles on the way, perhaps the Microsoft Design teams can work together to align everything in time for WinUI 3.0 and Xbox Next.

Fabric seems to be getting a lot of focus at the moment, what with it's cross platform and PWA use cases. So perhaps Fabric becomes the blueprint - at least for the Compact Density, and move from 2px to 4px as a minimum measurement - and then you extrapolate the touch affordances and fill out the missing control states.

image

image

The ThemeShadows will need to account for the rounded corners. And Acrylic surfaces should probably include inner and outer borders to ensure they appear elevated from the backgrounds.

image

@chigy

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commented May 28, 2019

@mdtauk As requirement number 4 states, there's a plan to rationalize this change with Xbox. That said, this specific feature is limited to rounded corner only to keep the work clearly scoped. Please feel free to open separate requests for other design suggestions you have.

BTW, I don't quite understand your feedback on inner and outer borders for Acrylic surfaces? Is it the Xbox design you are mentioning since we currently do not use two borders as you specify.

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commented May 28, 2019

@chigy Sure with the Xbox, that is its own thing. But the point is the rounded corners need to work on all the relevant controls.

I am not aware of the internal figma design specs the Fluent Team may or may not have agreed on - but it needs to be more than Buttons.

Fluent Web uses a 2px corner radius for its rounded corners, but Fluent XAML has tended to use 4px as a base measurement. Then there is the CompactDensity templates which would probably use the same metrics as FluentWeb?

I made a comparison image of Xbox Fluent and Fabric shared controls, and how different they look. So there is more than the rounded corners that needs to be done whilst these control templates are being looked at.

image
Ignore the Xbox stuff

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commented May 29, 2019

@mdtauk , For you to get an impression this is only about button, I must not have speced clearly... Rest assured, it is not. See the requirements number 1 and their sub items. This is about all of the controls.

I have not had chance to publish design file but the corner radius we are planning are indeed 2px (4px for overlay UI). I actually do work very closely with Fabric team (i.e. Fluent Web) and we are evaluating these changes together. That said, making them match exactly the same is not our goal, but we do need to be coherent and feel part of the family when users see them side by side. See requirement number 4.

So there is more than the rounded corners that needs to be done whilst these control templates are being looked at.

It is in the works but we are doing this one by one/case by case basis. We are careful in making changes that makes sense not to change things for the sake of change.

@mdtauk

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commented May 29, 2019

@chigy Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I would love if you were able to share these designs with the community, not only because we all want to see where the controls and UI are going, but also so when the changes are implemented we can point out inconsistencies, as well as ensure future control proposals will feel at home!

Fabric Web as well as Fluent Web do seem to be ahead of the pack, and XAML as well as WPF and WinForms/Visual Styles should follow!

@Felix-Dev

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commented May 29, 2019

@chigy @mdtauk See my response here. Just seeing the UI concepts "to know where Fluent Design is going" or to point out inconsistencies in my opinion isn't enough. I elaborate on this point further in the linked issue above, but long story short I want there to be an active back-and-forth between the users and the Fluent Design (FD) team even when it comes to Design proposals.

@mdtauk I keep seeing you raise the point of updating the WPF/WinForms controls to match FD. I'm opposed to that as you will have WinUI if you want to ship a non-UWP app with Win10 native look & feel and the team(s) at MS only have finite resources which are best spent on making UWP/WinUI THE definite Windows Presentation platform.
So, @YuliKl @chigy @pag3: Can you comment on this? Will the default WinForms/WPF controls be updated to have a new FD look or will the WinUI controls be the way to go for the latest-and-greatest design features as I understand it?

@mdtauk

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commented May 30, 2019

I posted this image in the Numberbox proposal, but it may have some relevance to the TextBox controls being updated.

numberbox comparison

The BorderThickness, FocusReveal on Focused State, Border on Disabled State.

The "Spin buttons" style could apply to the search button, password reveal button, clear text button.

@Felix-Dev

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commented May 30, 2019

The shadow around the border/control elements in focused state looks way too strong to me. Why do they even need shadows at all? Current version (just border color changing) is totally fine. Shadows might suggest the control (element) is being elevated to the foreground, which might make sense in 3D environments but certainly isn't needed for classic desktop environments and, one could argue, add some distraction.

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commented May 30, 2019

The shadow around the border/control elements in focused state looks way too strong to me. Why do they even need shadows at all? Current version (just border color changing) is totally fine. Shadows might suggest the control (element) is being elevated to the foreground, which might make sense in 3D environments but certainly isn't needed for classic desktop environments and, one could argue, add some distraction.

The Glow around the control when focused, is the FocusVisualKind.Reveal and is controlled by the system. I had to approximate how it looks because I don't have the metrics to match the opacity and size exactly.

Take my use of it as an indication that I think the glow will make it's focus much clearer, than just changing the border colour.

image

image

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commented May 30, 2019

@mdtauk , respectively, could you please limit conversation in this issue to rounded corner? I really would like to get feedback on rounded corner specifically and I am afraid this conversation is getting too confusing for those who might have just come here for that purpose.

That said, what you are showing looks to me like a Reveal Focus behavior. We looked into making the focus state stronger and did some user research and we confirmed they are way too strong just as @Felix-Dev mentions in his response.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/style/reveal-focus

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commented May 30, 2019

@chigy If the research shows that Reveal Focus on text control focus is too much, I will accept that. My examples do include the rounded corners, All be it with some slight changes to the border, which fit with the "... consistent with web and app style direction" part of the proposal.

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commented May 31, 2019

@mdtauk and @Felix-Dev , I've now uploaded visual comps of the changes being proposed.

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commented Jun 1, 2019

@chigy is there any possibility of reconsidering the border thickness of the text controls, combo boxes, check and radio controls.

Fabric Web opted for 1 epx thickness and I think this makes the controls more elegant, especially with the new rounded corners. At present they feel a little bulky.

Text boxes in compact mode would greatly benefit. But when focused the border can be thicker

Buttons use the background fill with 20% opacity by default. In Fabric Web, they use a 1 epx border and no fill. I think this may be a better solution, and would also allow buttons in a textbox control to fit nicely.

The NumberBox with spin buttons proposal illustrates this combination of Button and Text Field

image

Perhaps if the team is unwilling to make this style the new default, then a style/template can be included for it.

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commented Jun 1, 2019

To aid viewing the visual comps created by @chigy I created this

@Zucce05

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commented Jun 1, 2019

Anecdotal and unprofessional feedback on the topic of rounded corners.
Using both Edge and CrEdge, my number one problem with CrEdge is the rounded feel to the whole UI. It's hideous, and actively makes me dislike using it. If you add rounded corners to things, please add the ability to toggle sharp edge for those of us who don't want something that looks like a kid with safety scissors cut it out.

@jevansaks jevansaks added this to Needs triage in Controls Triage via automation Jun 7, 2019

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commented Jun 7, 2019

@chigy Thank you for the summary you have posted.

I have a few questions about what happens next...

  • Do those design comps reflect the final designs for all of the controls, or are there more changes being discussed which will be updated or posted later?

  • How do you suggest we as a community try to influence or make suggestions about some of these design choices coming to WinUI?

  • When will we be able to see the vision the Windows Design Team has for the Windows UI, so we can have a context for the control designs being worked on?

  • Will there be an effort to persuade/cajole/enforce consistency between the inbox apps and shell elements using XAML, so everything matches in design?

  • Will the Xbox modified control designs be included in WinUI, or will they only come on the next Xbox devices (with no way to test these control templates whilst developing on Windows?

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commented Jun 7, 2019

@mdtauk , oops, I wrote too much but I wanted to make sure I explained myself well...

  • Do those design comps reflect the final designs for all of the controls, or are there more changes being discussed which will be updated or posted later?

What you see in the comps are as final as we can get at the moment. That said, as we implement the change in the actual controls, some minor change might occur that causes the design to shift a bit. As you can see, comp doesn't cover every UI occurrences. I don't expect that from this particular effort, however...

  • How do you suggest we as a community try to influence or make suggestions about some of these design choices coming to WinUI?

What I would love the community to tell us about is where those design choices fail for applications. Are there places for customization that we are not giving you? Does it completely break your app for some reason or another?

As I mentioned, the design decisions are made by design team, but WinUI is still responsible for providing a solution for developers and making sure that's a sound one. As a result, there could be an opportunity to influence the design output. I won't promise anything would happen, but real examples of how it doesn't work and how it should be fixed works the best in this case...

  • When will we be able to see the vision the Windows Design Team has for the Windows UI, so we can have a context for the control designs being worked on?

By vision, do you mean like an overall story that tells you the type of UI changes being introduced to Windows overall? What do you have in mind specifically?

  • Will there be an effort to persuade/cajole/enforce consistency between the inbox apps and shell elements using XAML, so everything matches in design?

Below is totally my own opinion based on what I know. Just to be clear... :)
In my mind, the problem is twofold.

First problem is that we currently have the delivery system for new UI that is depended on OS releases. Because of that, a lot of inbox apps could not adopt new styles that Shell was using, etc. because they still needed to support old OS version. We are trying to solve this by delivering the new UI in WinUI so you will be able to adopt these changes regardless of OS version.

Second problem is that it requires a cultural shift. I worked on different UI platforms including Windows Phone where we tried to use many different approaches to bring consistency to products. It's like this... Even if you have a speed limit, not everyone follows it. But how many police do we have to send to enforce? We have to create a culture where speed limit is followed. There is no magic solution here. And this is something I am hopeful that Fluent Design System would help bring. By making design decisions more of a system not a personal opinion.

  • Will the Xbox modified control designs be included in WinUI, or will they only come on the next Xbox devices (with no way to test these control templates whilst developing on Windows?

We do not have a plan to modify the controls specifically for Xbox. We have not done so in the past (we did release a documentation) and have not received any strong requests from both Xbox team as well as the community (this is pre-open source).

@mdtauk

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commented Jun 7, 2019

@chigy Thank you again for being so candid and responding.

I was assuming the next Xbox would also support apps - and with Core OS using XAML for it's shell - that would also mean Xbox would need WinUI 3.0 controls as much as Windows does. So including templates designed for Xbox would simplify the process, and make Xbox app dev more approachable - but that is obviously a decision for other teams. 😄

As for the vision - I mean "Here is what a future Windows Shell and Inbox apps will look like." and "We are taking the opportunity to update our Windows design, here are some of the changes we are making..."

Cue images and or video 😃

@shaheedmalik

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commented Jun 7, 2019

I also think that Xbox and Windows should match each other. We have apps on Xbox that have been discontinued on Windows but still exist on Xbox (CBS, FOX Sports) or never existed on Windows 10 (Youtube).

If you take away having to do any type of UI changes, it will keep these apps on the platform.

Just my thoughts.

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commented Jun 7, 2019

I also think that Xbox and Windows should match each other. We have apps on Xbox that have been discontinued on Windows but still exist on Xbox (CBS, FOX Sports) or never existed on Windows 10 (Youtube).

If you take away having to do any type of UI changes, it will keep these apps on the platform.

Just my thoughts.

Xbox Apps do require different control styles and behaviours. But those apps should be able to run on Windows by just including some property which allows those apps to run without having to use the Windows control styles. So an Xbox First approach.

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commented Jun 7, 2019

@shaheedmalik and @mdtauk , I'm a bit confused about the discussion about Xbox and Windows should match and the app should run on each other.

The designs of Xbox shell and Windows shell are different. That's on purpose because they are unique products. But we've designed WinUI controls in such a way that apps that wants to use one style can run with minor work. When we worked with Xbox team a couple of years ago, we looked to make sure our XAML controls (no WinUI then) do appear correctly on TV and also released guidance on it that I mentioned earlier.

UWP app that's created properly will run on both Windows and Xbox. For apps like the ones @shaheedmalik lists, they are very much branded that we often have seen the same brand to come across to and from Xbox and Windows. So one app design often are running across those devices.

Again, this is rounded corner topic, so bringing it back...
Here's what developer would need to do on Xbox once rounded corner releases. If a developer adopts WinUI 2.x that has rounded corner feature, then the dev would need to turn off the rounded corner style IF they want to match the style of the shell. Mind you, a lot of apps on Xbox don't... That's why we release guidance documentation instead for those who care. I'll make sure the 10FT guidance documentation mention about rounded corner when we release.

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commented Jun 7, 2019

As for the vision - I mean "Here is what a future Windows Shell and Inbox apps will look like." and "We are taking the opportunity to update our Windows design, here are some of the changes we are making..."

Cue images and or video 😃

@mdtauk , that's something I've asked design team in the past so, we as a platform team, can use that to communicate the design vision for developer audiences. As far as I know, there's no immediate plan but I can check again.

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commented Jun 7, 2019

As for the vision - I mean "Here is what a future Windows Shell and Inbox apps will look like." and "We are taking the opportunity to update our Windows design, here are some of the changes we are making..."
Cue images and or video 😃

@mdtauk , that's something I've asked design team in the past so, we as a platform team, can use that to communicate the design vision for developer audiences. As far as I know, there's no immediate plan but I can check again.

Thank you. //Build/ would have been the perfect opportunity to share the changes that were being planned, especially if the plan is to have these control templates updated at the end of Summer, along with WinUI 3.0's initial release.

The designs of Xbox shell and Windows shell are different. That's on purpose because they are unique products. But we've designed WinUI controls in such a way that apps that wants to use one style can run with minor work. When we worked with Xbox team a couple of years ago, we looked to make sure our XAML controls (no WinUI then) do appear correctly on TV and also released guidance on it that I mentioned earlier.

Sure the shells will be different to suit the experience. My only comment is that if the next Xbox want's to encourage Apps to be developed, the default WinUI controls should have Templates and ThemeResources included in WinUI so when running on the Xbox, they will match the guidance for control design. And it should be made possible to test how those controls will look, whilst in development. In both Windows and the XAML Designer.

I came across some of the design comps for the Xbox controls, but they were not in the UWP docs.

uni3
uwpaudit
panamaaudit

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commented Jun 7, 2019

@mdtauk , I feel this conversation about Xbox seems better suited with #698? I've pinged someone in Xbox to see if they can comment on the other conversation (no promise :)). That again, this is an open source community, perhaps you could create said resource and propose for us to consume in some way? Just saying...

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commented Jun 8, 2019

@chigy That was an issue I submitted, and was about ensuring that any controls the community adds to WinUI should include templates for running on the future Xbox consoles. If developers wanted to use WinUI 3.0+ for their Xbox App - that all the controls should adapt to look correct when running on a TV.

But with the designs pretty much finalised, this issue doesn't have much more purpose - other than to be marked as completed when all the templates are updated.

I have been submitting ideas in the NumberBox control submission, and we wanted to ensure the design of the control matches what is planned for the rest of the controls.

@jevansaks jevansaks moved this from Needs triage to Backlog in Controls Triage Jun 10, 2019

@chigy chigy added this to To do in Visual update Jun 11, 2019

@chigy chigy moved this from To do to In progress in Visual update Jun 11, 2019

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commented Jun 12, 2019

If developers wanted to use WinUI 3.0+ for their Xbox App - that all the controls should adapt to look correct when running on a TV.

@mdtauk , as I had mentioned before, this is a fine suggestion but it is not our priority as there has been no requests both coming from Xbox team themselves or community other than yourself.

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commented Jun 12, 2019

Updated the fact WebView's ScrollIndicator will not be updated through XAML, but we use web's as is.

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commented Jun 22, 2019

image

Looking at the current Progress Bar in the MUXControlsTestApp - Will the right end of the progress value bar also be rounded, or will it retain it's flat edge?


image

Will the Slider within the volume flyout also be styled


Will reveal be added to all the controls by default, or will it still have to be added by styles?


image

Would the Sliders used in the ColourPicker benefit from having an outline style, similar to the MediaPlayer - so it doesn't get lost amongst the darker colours of the Bar?

image

@stmoy stmoy referenced this issue Jun 24, 2019

Open

Proposal: Tabs Control #304

2 of 18 tasks complete
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commented Jun 24, 2019

Looking at the current Progress Bar in the MUXControlsTestApp - Will the right end of the progress value bar also be rounded, or will it retain it's flat edge?

By design definition, it should. Please open an issue against MUXControlsTestApp.


Will the Slider within the volume flyout also be styled

Since shell UI uses our common control, it should when the change in our controls occur. However if you don't see this updated, please open FeedbackHub issue. This is a work by shell team and it is not something WinUI team makes the final call on priority and resourcing.


Will reveal be added to all the controls by default, or will it still have to be added by styles?

This is not rounded corner topic.
If you want the reveal be added to all the controls by default, please open a new issue.


Would the Sliders used in the ColourPicker benefit from having an outline style, similar to the MediaPlayer - so it doesn't get lost amongst the darker colours of the Bar?

MediaPlayer is being planned to follow the design of the new slider (#841). So what you are proposing is not in the plan. If you feel it is an usability issue, please open a separate issue.

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commented Jun 28, 2019

Woah! There are a lot of comments here.

I think that the persistent sharp corners make Windows 10 look unique. If rounded corners were to be introduced, something would have to be done about the Windows logo, the Microsoft logo and tiles. Once you get rid of metro relics such as tiles, you also need to redo logos such as Office which have a slant. I could go on and on about the effects of introducing rounded corners and consistency but I'll cut it here.

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commented Jun 28, 2019

@Poopooracoocoo the new office icons/logos use rounded corners, as does the new Terminal icon, and the new visual studio icons/logos.

And FWIW, I don't want them to get rid of the tiles, it's bad enough the Windows 10 tablet UI, took a big downgrade, compared to Windows 8.1

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commented Jun 28, 2019

@Poopooracoocoo , @mdtauk ,
Thank you for your feedback. You are both right that change has to be applied across the board. Thus this effort is starting the alignment with Fabric and other visible UI like Edge. We would like for consistency to happen overnight, but this is a journey. And it starts out from the default value of the UI platform at play here (i.e. WinUI).

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commented Jun 28, 2019

Status Update:

Corner Radius (aka Rounded Corner) How-To document PR is created.

This will be added to docs.microsoft.com as a documentation.
It will be a new page under https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/style/.

Ask to community:
I am trying out writing a little more "background explanation (WHY)" that our customers have expressed we provide with our documentation in some of our focus groups. I would like feedback as this does not follow normal documentation pattern.

Are those extra information useful/helpful, not relevant, other info missing, etc.?

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commented Jun 28, 2019

@chigy the only suggestion I have about the document, is that you have not mentioned why the controls will be receiving the rounded corners.

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commented Jun 28, 2019

@mdtauk , good catch. I had "todo" section (principles) that catches that, but somehow during editing, the context got lost. I'm still working to get that section filled in.

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