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Is this repo dead? #230

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GeraudFabien opened this issue Feb 12, 2018 · 225 comments

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@GeraudFabien
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commented Feb 12, 2018

All in the title.
Since May 2017 no real news.
....
What MS thinks about it?
What the community thinks?
What "other implementation guys" like Avalon thinks?

@insinfo

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commented Mar 12, 2018

It looks like Microsoft has abandoned or forgotten the developers

@AuroraDysis

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commented Mar 12, 2018

ping @harinikmsft

@magol

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commented Mar 12, 2018

I have the same question.

@GeraudFabien

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commented Mar 12, 2018

Sometime this repo lookslike this one : https://github.com/benaadams/System.Ben/issues

It feels sad to me to say that because i place so much hope on it at the start.

@tpetrina

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commented Mar 12, 2018

The problem with xaml-standard is that it is quite confusing topic. First of all, what exactly needs to be standardised? Most common "issue" on this project is suggesting a control that should come with base XAML. Or converters. Or XAML featurs like x:Bind and Triggers.

However, XAML is not a set of controls, XAML is a dialect. And it consists of things like controls, properties, nested controls, nested properties, attached properties, behaviours, converters, markup extensions and such.

Instead of focusing on controls, focus on the XAML as a platform. One thing XAML clearly lacks is proper lifecycle. Another is extensibility. If you look at HTML/CSS/JS combo, that world has a lot of original technologies that are built on powerful underlying platform. Things like SASS/LESS/SPAs are invented there, not here.

Where is our incremental DOM? Or shadow DOM? Virtual one? What about HAML? Pug? Another syntax for writing terser UIs instead of writing "{Binding Property.Value, Converter={StaticResource BooleanToVisiblityConverter}, ConverterParameter={StaticResource InvertBool}}?

After all, every XAML file begins with two xmlns namespaces instead of top level <!DOCTYPE Xamarin.Forms>. Instead of inventing on top of XAML, we keep "loosing features". WPF was powerful, but Silverlight shed most of advanced features.

My love for XAML fades as I turned to React which is a superior implementation of what XAML was supposed to be: declarative markup.

Consider the following: IsVisible={ViewModel.ShowProgress} or IsVisible={Items.Count > 0}, why can't we have that?
Why do we have three files: view model, view.xaml and view.xaml.cs? Why can't we inherit CustomPage<T> in XAML? I mean, there are x:TypeArguments but really? How easy it is to reference custom local control in XAML? How easy it is to refactor controls and move them to another folder? Is this really something we want to write: <OnPlatform x:TypeArguments="x:String">?

XAML feels heavy and binding, once super cool, feels cryptic compared to React's elegance. IMHO React is XAML/MVVM done right. Let's focus on inventing on top of a powerful and stable platform instead of talking about TreeView control here.

@shaggygi

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commented Mar 17, 2018

At the end of the DotNetRocks #1527 episode, @coolcsh mentioned more info will come at Build 2018. Cross fingers!

@chuck-flowers

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commented Mar 20, 2018

At the end of the DotNetRocks #1527 episode, @coolcsh mentioned more info will come at Build 2018. Cross fingers!

I noticed that part of the episode too. The optimist in me is running wild with possibilities. Mainly because he didn't just come out and say "the standard is still being developed". If it's worth an announcement at build there must be more to it than just an iteration on the standard. Maybe they've created a Microsoft supported front end with platform specific back ends like Avalonia and Eto.Forms.

But then the pessimist in me says that that it'll just be kind of a dud of an announcement.

Then the realist in me says that maybe they'll just announce v1.0 of the spec.

In a perfect world I just want something with the portability of Java Swing apps but all the great bonuses of WPF (hardware acceleration, great composability, XAML, etc.). Not sure how useful this would be for people in .NET production environments but for hobby projects I always liked being able to create a fast UI with Swing.

@MichaelPuckett2

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commented Mar 27, 2018

Still wanting to see this complete. Patiently waiting but anxious just as much. Any update on the progress?

@RyoukoKonpaku

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commented Mar 27, 2018

Probably won't hear any news till Build I guess? Still optimistic on this despite the silence 😃 Hopes for the best.

@Mike-EEE

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commented Mar 27, 2018

😉

@Mike-EEE

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commented Mar 30, 2018

Why look, a Xaml Standard sighting... for all the wrong reasons:
https://mspoweruser.com/17-year-microsoft-veteran-thinks-re-org-means-end-of-windows-as-a-core-business-for-microsoft/

And XAML Standard, touted in the keynotes of last year’s Build as the strategy through which Microsoft would unify various incompatible dialects and UI technologies such as Xamarin, WPF and UWP, has clearly fallen victim to politics, with the repo seeming to be dead and its goals having been drastically watered down.

@amartens181

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commented Apr 5, 2018

😶

@jackbond

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commented Apr 12, 2018

This is EXACTLY why I said "Hire Scott Barnes". These guys are wasting their time with another poll,

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/03/23/calling-all-desktop-developers-how-should-ui-development-be-improved/?utm_source=vs_developer_news&utm_medium=referral

Meanwhile, they pretend this this hasn't got any votes,

https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio-2015/suggestions/10027638-create-a-ubiquitous-net-client-application-develo

And if you have the audacity to tell them with a modicum of disgust that they should simply port WPF to .netcore, and release a Microsoft store on Linux to distribute the apps, they censor you. Maybe they'll figure it out in 20 years, at which point Apple will just be realizing that "auto layout" is a joke.

@TonyHenrique

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commented Apr 13, 2018

With this @microsoft reorganization, with @Azure Cloud First, AI first and Quantum, I think that they will allow XAML to go where previous politics did not alow, ie. the Web. and cross-platform. Silverlight 6, with Universal XAML C# F# support.

I fear we dump XAML and go a javascript, html and react like way, or some json way, or even a ELM F# way. This will a big retrocess, in my opinion. The engineers should go and fix all these issues in upcoming Universal XAML. and also adopt reactiveness and immutability on it.

I think that the problem is that Microsoft hold XAML too much on the desktop for many years. But I think they will change this soon. XAML is very important. It is a clean way to instantiate objects. XAML is a solution, not a problem. XAML to the Azure Cloud!

@MichaelPuckett2

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commented Apr 13, 2018

Amen to everything he said above!!

@jackbond

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commented Apr 13, 2018

@TonyHenrique Microsoft had XAML running in the browser on the Mac 10 years ago. They literally have cross platform code for displaying XAML. Right now. Sitting somewhere. Gathering dust. Have they once, ever, asked, hey guys, should we add this to .net core? Yah, some real geniuses are running the show. But maybe I'm being a little harsh, perhaps Microsoft is strapped for cash.

P.S. To anyone wondering why I seem a little pissed. Imagine investing a lot of time and money in a Microsoft technology, say perhaps Silverlight, and then watch some lying fuck Microsoft executive tell you, oh, we're absolutely committed to that. And then proceed to shit can the entire thing. Kind of like this thread... carrot dangled, now disappear.

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 13, 2018

They literally have cross platform code for displaying XAML. Right now. Sitting somewhere. Gathering dust.

Indeed, @jackbond sitting right below the vote that you mentioned earlier:

13-04-2018-02-26-05

perhaps Microsoft is strapped for cash.

This suspicion is 100% aligned the output/quality/talent out of the UWP group for the past few years, and has also been my determination based on conversations/phone calls that I have had with their (remaining) staff. These phone calls and discussions have led to nowhere, of course. The self-inflicted conundrum that they are battling is that they had a talent drain to Google and elsewhere, which only leads to less resources, which only leads to less production, which only leads to less value, which only leads to less resources...

The bigger question to me is what has happened due to the recent restructuring/reorganization. I haven't seen/read/heard anything in regards to this, but my expectations are not very high. The .NET/Core team continues to be where the talent (and passion) in MSFT is at these days.

@jackbond

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commented Apr 13, 2018

@Mike-EEE The "strapped for cash" bit was entirely sarcasm. The truly sad part is they FINALLY have a real cross platform framework with core, and they haven't brought WPF along for the ride. It's only the greatest UI framework ever designed. Heck, if they ported WPF to core, for all I care, they could dump full framework development altogether. The dual development of both core and full is obviously not sustainable, why not just make it official?

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commented Apr 14, 2018

@jackbond WPF + .NET Core open source is the best of the worlds

@jackbond

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commented Apr 20, 2018

@Mike-EEE They censor me over there...

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/04/20/help-us-plan-the-future-of-net/

I wonder who the fuck on the .net team thinks another poll is necessary.

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 20, 2018

@jackbond I have noticed that they do have trigger words there for posts. Did your page refresh/load without a message? I have had that happen a few times and it had to do with certain words I was using. I've had this happen on Visual Studio's blog but not .NET's. I saw that you had your post edited once by Immo on .NET's blog, but I do not think you've been banhammered.

FWIW you are not the only one that has experienced this lately. If you do a search in the Ubiquitous Vote about 6 comments down there's mention by Oliver that he had problems, too.

I am pretty sure it has to do with certain words and not you personally. If so, that should definitely get rectified. UWP is really the only group that I have seen censoring in the Windows ecosystem as they really don't know what they are doing there... as this repo and many many other examples clearly illustrate. 😉

@dotMorten

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commented Apr 20, 2018

@Mike-EEE @jackbond : Perhaps just not swear so damn much?

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 20, 2018

In my case there were no swear words, @dotMorten. But there were words that I saw that could be seen as spam.

@dotMorten

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commented Apr 20, 2018

But in case you're wondering, this is what one of the big stakeholders think of XAML in Xamarin: https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/972525236301238272

If he considers it "Anchoring" in that negative connotation, well it's going to be a tough sell getting the Xamarin team on board. And without Xamarin on board, yes this standard would be completely and utterly dead.

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 20, 2018

@dotMorten I thought Xamarin was a part of this whole initiative from the start? The XF team was brought in to lead this? Jason Smith was in charge of this repo at one point, for example. Sounds like there might indeed be an announcement at //build. XAML STANDARD 2.0: THIS TIME WE MEAN IT.

@dotMorten

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commented Apr 20, 2018

@Mike-EEE I'm sure Jason will have a hard time pushing this, if his boss says no :-)

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 20, 2018

Heh... granted @dotMorten buuuuuut there's this whole huge announcement thing at last year's //build. A huge deal was made of it! We went through all the hassle of creating issues! And now it seems like that huge deal and effort was ... a mistake? An oversight? Trust is a bit of an issue here. Why should we trust any additional information and announcements out of //build now? The whole Silverlight thing doesn't help, either. Very big problem.

@dotMorten

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commented Apr 20, 2018

LOL. If only I had a penny each time someone announced plans that never materialized...
I actually had a good discussion with Miguel a couple months ago about a change that wouldn't be breaking and accomplish almost all of it and he did sound open to it - he did also have a beer in his hand so he might also just have been drunk :-).

Put it another way: This repo isn't (officially at least) dead, and we're all still "fighting the good fight". It's just that I find the lack of progress and statements as what I linked to, very discouraging. The Xamarin team did a small effort to put something out there in November last year, and we all tore it apart as a horrible approach, and since then, we haven't seen any effort.

@Mike-EEE

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commented Apr 20, 2018

Fair enough... I guess my first question is why are these discussions happening over in Twitter and not here in the official repo? This is the first I have heard of this. Twitter is a terrible, inhumane place so I steer clear of it as much as I can. Besides, I have better things to do like troll developers on GitHub and in MSDN blog comments 😆

@tpetrina

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commented Jun 21, 2018

AirBnb is actually switching to server-generated layouts that are rendered natively. Read their blog post, it is in there. The main problems they had are:

  • inability to use Flow/Typescript
  • the bridge between js/native is async which is quite limiting, but Facebook acknowledged the issue and will rearchitect the project to allow high priority sync communication
@TonyHenrique

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commented Jun 21, 2018

Now is time to unify, I think that UWP has the potential to solve the UI challenge, ranging from Voice UI to Web, to Mobile ,and Desktop.

I also think that the WebBrowsers should support natively loading .Net Core assemblies and rendering XAML natively as they render HTML pages. Not only web assembly, but direct .Net assemblies support and cache.

Flutter concept is very similar to that WPF idea of custom rendering the contents.

Xamarin Forms also could do that easily.

It would be good if http://platform.uno/ runs faster. I envision websites done with that, even the Azure Portal.

I began developing in BASIC, the moved to VB 4, 5, learned some JavaScript in Netscape days, then VB.Net then C# and WPF, now I am looking into F#

In my opinion XAML is awesome, I have used WPF for several years.

HTML is derived from XML, and in my view XAML is what HTML should be.

All this happened because of this Microsoft/Windows Hate we saw several years ago, due to Windows Vista, and because windows was not free.

Linux is interesting, but I don’t like it very much. I think that the good thing is to get the best of Linux and merge into Windows

I bet that if XAML were from Google, and free and cross platform, nobody would question about it.

But it is from Microsoft. The best language to describe User Interface, not only it.

Silverlight shutdown was a mistake.

For many years, Microsoft kept .Net only on Windows. Several years later, we see that it was a mistake, wich was corrected on .Net Core.

@birbilis

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commented Jun 22, 2018

Several teams have experimented with and started to unify around powerful server-driven rendering frameworks. With these frameworks, the server sends data to the device describing the components to render, the screen configuration, and the actions that can occur. Each mobile platform then interprets this data and renders native screens or even entire flows using DLS components.

https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/whats-next-for-mobile-at-airbnb-5e71618576ab

sounds similar to what Praeclarum's Ooui is doing I think

btw, why have yet another UI description language (DLS) for the wire when you can have XAML (and BAML if you want binary stream)?

update
some related links on Airbnb's new approach:
https://airbnb.design/building-a-visual-language/
https://airbnb.design/the-way-we-build/
https://www.designernews.co/stories/69628--ama-karri-saarinen-designer-creating-design-systems-at-airbnb

those are also mentioned:
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/
https://github.com/airbnb/epoxy

more on Lona here:
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/blob/master/docs/overview/background.md
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/blob/master/docs/file-formats/README.md
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/blob/master/docs/file-formats/component.md
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/blob/master/docs/file-formats/colors.md
https://github.com/airbnb/Lona/blob/master/docs/file-formats/text-styles.md

@tpetrina

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commented Jun 22, 2018

Yeah, why invent something when you have XAML/BAML...

@birbilis

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commented Jun 22, 2018

it's probably the Not Invented Here Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here) or plain ignorance of what's out there sometimes

#LOL, just noticed there is also the "Invented here, but let's Reinvent it anyway" syndrome that some Microsoft teams must have been suffering from

A related anti-pattern, sarcastically named "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers" (CADT) by Jamie Zawinski, emerges when successive teams working on a project decide to rewrite the program from scratch rather than continue with the existing code base.... Zawinski coined the term in light of his experiences with a series of projects to update the GNOME desktop in the early 2000s.[5] The similar term "Invented Here, But Let's Reinvent It Anyway" (IHBLRIA) was coined by Alex Papadimoulis in an article for The Daily WTF in 2004.[6]

@Mike-EEE

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commented Jun 22, 2018

The interesting aspect here of course is how much cred AirBnB is getting over this design initiative. They've basically said that they don't like Facebook and that they can do better. That's fine, of course, but I consider them a technology service company before a technology platform one. More power to them if they can pull it off. Hopefully they can further inspire someone someway that can impact the work in our ecosystem.

@weitzhandler

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commented Jul 20, 2018

It's amazing how they delay the development of the XAML Standard while letting all kinds of libraries evolve their UIs their own way.
In the future we'll all have a bunch of de-facto UI libraries each shaped in a totally different way and we'll have to plug in the standard and have the standard obey the libraries' crap instead of it to work the other way around.

What's worse, is that the more time that goes by, the worse it gets with more libraries joining the party (Uno, soon Blazor UI), and the features each of eve the existing ones (XF) add, spreading this enormous mess to greater extents. Why feed this spinning shit-fan when we can stop it?

@Mike-EEE

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commented Jul 20, 2018

I understand your angst @weitzhandler but I have learned to accept it. It's a new world now where anyone can build their own WPF, essentially. With open source now upon us, we can choose to either help out or ignore it. Efforts that don't get the support (or talent) will eventually fade and those that the community rallies around will be the true (legitimate) winners of the cause. It's more Darwinian or natural in that regard. Decentralized, too. IMO this is a good thing, if not more chaotic.

@stonstad

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commented Aug 7, 2018

I think people fail to appreciate how much bureaucracy is steeped within the Microsoft management chain. This was an easy win for Microsoft -- unifying their user interface across platforms for expanded reach. However, the creation of a team to discuss an XAML standard when a reference implementation already exists in WPF and UWP was clearly a warning sign. Execution of this idea implies creation of a unified API (i.e. Xamarin) -- that's the work product that Microsoft needs here. This repo and its associated discussion has -- at least visibly -- gone nowhere.

@djaus2

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commented Aug 25, 2018

A comment I heard recently was that the problem is that no one in authority at MS took charge to lead XAML Standard. So maybe the horse HAS bolted!

@GeraudFabien

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commented Aug 25, 2018

I don't even know if there is a MS employee that follow this repo. I feel like it's the most unprofessional repo of MS. There was someone in the first month and now I don't remember seen any MS reply (on this repo) since December.

@rashadrivera

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commented Oct 11, 2018

Maybe we should give a shout out to "Harini Kannan" who is one of the main contributors to this project and ask her to turn it over to the community.

I see a pattern with Microsoft. They are floundering as an "innovative giant" and as a result, GREAT technologies like XAML and UWP die on the vine. In my humble opinion, Microsoft needs to release its failing products to open source so the 'COMMUNITY' can carry the product forward. I REALLY HOPE UWP DOES NOT FOLLOW WINDOWS MOBILE, SILVEERLIGHT, ECT.

@weitzhandler

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commented Oct 11, 2018

They'll end up losing the desktop world too, if they don't advance quickly in making #uwpeverywhere.

People gave Microsoft so many chances. They come up with brilliant technologies and frameworks and fail to take advantage of them. What the world needs today is develop once deploy everywhere. Xamarin.Forms is close but doesn't include web, and is not using actual XAML. The only thing that takes out UWP to the multi-platform world including web is Uno Platform.

@stonstad

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commented Oct 24, 2018

Politely paging @harinikmsft - Any update to share?

@rashadrivera

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commented Oct 25, 2018

@weitzhandler,

That Uno is freaking awesome!

@emiliano84

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commented Oct 25, 2018

@weitzhandler WOW that's amazing! MS should really buy and integrate it!

Guys maybe could be good to start to use this new tool for these new features suggestions?
https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/spaces/61/index.html

@juanfranblanco

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commented Oct 25, 2018

Don't forget Avalonia is also doing WPF Everywhere (Windows, Mac, Linux, Wasm), it has its own editor and more stuff. Uno, Avalonia, Xamarin.Forms (not in particular order) have you covered for your cross platform needs. Now.. what is the standard?

@harinikmsft

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commented Oct 26, 2018

Hello,

We appreciate the continued passion for aligning XAML dialects. This repo defines the set of principles that drive XAML dialect alignment and those principles are known as “XAML Standard”. At this point, the principles are set and therefore we do not expect more updates to this repo. If you have feedback on XAML alignment, please provide that on either the UWP XAML uservoice or the Xamarin.Forms community forums.

Thank you.

@Kryptos-FR

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commented Nov 5, 2018

@harinikmsft that is a very weak definition of a "standard".
I will consider it to be a proper standard when:

  1. It is part of the .net foundation (or equivalent).
  2. It is published in said foundation, with a adequate version number.
  3. We have proof that the standard is followed and applied by all implementations of XAML
  4. There are tests or analyzers to ensure conformity of the standard.

Until then it is at best a draft. It would be more honest to state the fact: it is dead and there will never be such standard.

@weitzhandler

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commented Nov 6, 2018

@harinikmsft
You officially confirmed this repo is dead.

@Kryptos-FR
To add to what you said, the XAML standard needs to cover hell of a lot more controls and features.
To be a comprehensive UI feature-set, XAML Standard must have all controls in either WPF/UWP, and in addition, all adaptive UI options, transitions, behaviors etc.
You can't really build a modern UI without them.

IMHO, it shouldn't have been XAML Standard buy rather .NET UI Standard - a contract that defines what any .NET UI framework has to provide and how it provides it.
Whether XAML is the language used or whether C# or any other language is used is irrelevant to the contract.

@emiliano84

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commented Nov 6, 2018

so basically we don't have a XAML standard

@tom-corwin

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commented Nov 6, 2018

@emiliano84 It sure seems that way.

@GeraudFabien

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commented Nov 6, 2018

You may want to look to blazor ou razor component it's new name. I believe they will make what will be the future of C# UI framework. Look how they made it may be in two or three years a big deal.

You may want to watch this if you want to have update on this project

I now close this issue since @harinikmsft answer. Even if, in my point of view, this question was not exactly the subject anymore...

@JohnGalt1717

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commented Feb 27, 2019

Microsoft needs to buy Uno and do what they should have done when they bought Xamarin: Make UWP work seamlessly like Flutter on iOS and Android. Now that Windows 7 is all but dead coming in January 2020 having UWP, iOS and Android only is viable.

But the Xamarin team is off adding CSS and other pointless stuff instead of getting UWP just working on Android and iOS without owning a Mac and without having to fight deploy issues etc. between platforms like Xamarin is notorious for.

@emiliano84

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commented Feb 27, 2019

Microsoft needs to buy Uno and do what they should have done when they bought Xamarin: Make UWP work seamlessly like Flutter on iOS and Android. Now that Windows 7 is all but dead coming in January 2020 having UWP, iOS and Android only is viable.
But the Xamarin team is off adding CSS and other pointless stuff instead of getting UWP just working on Android and iOS without owning a Mac and without having to fight deploy issues etc. between platforms like Xamarin is notorious for.

Totally agree, and one single XAML standard, it's ridiculous that in many years Xamarin forms and UWP have still different XAML

@JohnGalt1717

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commented Feb 27, 2019

@emiliano84 I'd go further and say that it's outright negligence that the day Xamarin was bought that this wasn't the marching orders for the entire UWP and Xamarin teams. Everything else other than UWP with full cross platform should have been put on life support. That that didn't happen should have resulted in people getting fired by now and the CEO being absolutely apoplectic and screaming at the roof tops to get this done. But he's a server guy that is letting anything that isn't Azure and Office die and even Office is on borrowed time because of this.

And worse, this isn't 20/20 hindsight. Lots of people said it at the time including me. It was this decision to just let the Xamarin people continue playing around at the margins instead of focusing them on this singular task that is going to make Microsoft into IBM. If they'd done this UWP would be the defacto programming language for iOS, Android and Windows now with Windows being the first class citizen, resulting in way better apps for Windows.

Instead the store is a wasteland and UWP is almost dead and Microsoft is losing mindshare and market share with even businesses wondering if they need the "Microsoft tax" or if they can use cheap chromebooks and GSuite. And if that happens, business markets fall and Azure is also at risk.

But they're so short sighted that they can't see that consumer and business are intertwined and it's only their success in consumer and business front line that allows continued success in Azure.

IBM made the same stupid mistake when they got out of PCs instead of redoubling their efforts and we know how that turned out.

@EisenbergEffect

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commented Feb 27, 2019

Microsoft's entire strategy today is Azure and unfortunately they fail to see how any front-end technology relates to it in terms of revenue generation. They also don't have a leader who can cast vision in this area and they don't seem interested in hiring one. I pitched this to a high-level engineering leader not too long ago and I was told that it just wasn't a priority right now. He said I should check back in another year. I've got a few connections at various levels of the company, so I plan to explore those each in turn. I do admit to having my own agenda, but even my worst ideas are better than the current state of affairs. We'll see what happens.

Shameless Promotion: On a related note, my open source team is working on Aurelia vNext, 100% authored in strict-mode TypeScript 3.x. It's lightning fast, very .NET developer friendly, and anyone with Xaml experience would find it amazingly easy to pick up and build with. At the end of last year, we announced that we had abstracted our rendering API so that we'll be able to render to not just HTML but also to 2d canvas, WebGL, native and even Console. You can read the blog post where we show some alternative renderer prototypes here: https://aurelia.io/blog/2019/01/02/aurelia-2018-year-in-review#aurelia-tomorrow Here's a quick perf demo of the HTML renderer and binding engine (not fully optimized yet), where you can see a thousand components rendering and animating in real-time: https://dist-lrezkm4bq.now.sh/

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commented Feb 27, 2019

@EisenbergEffect I LOVE the stuff you've done. Durandal, Aurelia, I'm on it all of the time. I can't wait to see Native fully enabled. I've said over and over again that someone like you needs to be driving the ship on the consumer side for development at the very least.

When you're talking to the Microsoft people please convey that there are lots of us that see the inevitable IBM outcome coming. IBM's stock went through the roof after they divested from PCs. Now it's in the tank and the company is largely irrelevant. In my opinion this is what MS needs to do at a minimum:

  1. Make UWP universal on iOS and Android in addition to Windows. And they have to give developers free iOS emulators and build services to deploy to the App Store so that you don't need to own a Mac to produce iOS apps.
  2. Make Aurelia or Blazor or something that can run native (i.e. without nodejs installed) SSR and in the browser, and have it have Native flavors as well that is a first class citizen on Windows 10 automatically.

By doing these 2 things they can capture UWP people and Web people in development. VS.net is a mess of other people's tech that is a mess and doesn't work right most of the time so I bail and drop to vs code. I ONLY use VS.net for our C# .NET Core Api layer because it just works unlike the rest of it.

A year ago I would have said that UWP needs to be ported to run on Windows 7 with a runtime layer but now it doesn't matter. By the time they got the above done Windows 7 will be out of support.

That's the minimum. And it needs to just work so easily and so beautifully that everyone flocks to VS.net and Windows to dev these apps in one single language. That's how the store gets fixed and that's how MS can be relevant on mobile again.

But then Microsoft needs to go BOLD:

  1. Buy T-Mobile.
  2. Make John Legere the COoW (Chief Operating of Windows) and let him have free reign on Xbox, Windows and consumer. Satya needs to keep his nose out and focus on what he's good at with Azure.
  3. Invest heavily in SpaceX's LEO sat network for internet for areas where TMobile coverage isn't and expand TMobile coverage as fast as possible with a massive capital build out.
  4. Buy Dish Network. (mostly for their spectrum and TV licenses)
  5. Buy Plex.
    5b. Buy Netflix.
  6. Produce a headless box that is router, home server and the master for Mesh Wifi. Allow snap ons for Cable and DSL if necessary but primarily 5G T-Mobile coverage and push Satellite for content. Allow snap ons for more hard drives. Produce a stylish tiny version for hipsters and people that live in apartments and a rack version for the high end.
  7. Allow that server to work as a central management device for all content like PVR AND enable Z-Wave and ZigBee integration similar to SmartThings but easier.
  8. Make the server become a plex server transparently and automatically and make Plex the base interface for everything.
  9. Use T-Mobile's and DISH's TV licenses and integrate full live TV and PVR in Plex.
  10. Use the Satellite services from Dish to do push multi-cast of content ahead of time for TV and PVR to cache content before it airs and have it unlock once it does within Plex thus alleviating T-Mobile's network for streaming so it's only on demand.
  11. Use AI to intelligently cache youtube videos etc. based on likes to minimize usage of terrestrial bandwidth.
  12. Create Xbox devices like Android TV with 4K and bitstream audio (yes not just Atomos and DTS:X, full bit streaming like Nvidia did with the shield to win over hard core people) Enable Cortana in all of them. Have about 3 flavors plus Xbox Game systems.
  13. Buy Ecobee, integrate all of their devices and make them the master of a complete home device portfolio within Microsoft that includes top-end speakers, screens, you name it.
  14. Fix Cortana and integrate her into all of the home devices everywhere AND do all of the processing of speech etc. LOCALLY on the headless server device if there is one for privacy and then beat Apple, Google and Android over the head about it.
  15. Put apps for all of this (Plex obviously but the rest of your smart home too) in Android and iOS.
  16. Make Windows run Android like we know it can.
  17. Release a Windows Lite phone (Xbox phone) with Android support and best of breed UWP apps per above. Make it seamless for content creation and consumption and make it the controller for your smart home and all of those xbox devices.
  18. Buy/control unity and make it the basis of all games on Xbox so that they can easily be made into games for your new Xbox phone and have it all carry forward with your identity at home etc.
  19. Allow users to control how much is shared to MS like Windows 10 does with Microsoft accounts versus local accounts. And make sure that every home is available externally so that you can connect to your content anywhere in the world from your phone and control your entire house from anywhere.
  20. Create a home installer line for new homes and renos etc. that integrates in the wall everywhere so that the entire house can be built with this tech not boxes on top of tables etc. Create an army of installers like MS Partners are now.

Drop EVERYTHING else other than Azure, Office and Xbox (making sure that the new hardware will just work with all of this and work better with this) until this is done.

This would cause Microsoft to leapfrog the industry and become relevant again. Otherwise Windows is dead in consumer, dying in business. The result of Windows dying in business is Office will start dying too. Windows Server is all but on life support as well. And once Office is gone, no one is running windows pcs, than Azure is an also-ran and Microsoft is IBM.

This plan stops that. And they could do all of this with the cash in the bank for the most part and they wouldn't have Anti-trust issues because they're not in these markets at all.

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