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Add better screenshots, and more screenshots #78

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SpaghettiDeveloper opened this issue Dec 6, 2016 · 63 comments
Open

Add better screenshots, and more screenshots #78

SpaghettiDeveloper opened this issue Dec 6, 2016 · 63 comments
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@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 6, 2016

Hi guys. the screenshots on the official website, do not do justice to the new mapgen v7! Minetest generates much more beautiful and detailed game maps as they appear in the web site screenshots. I can do some very nice screenshots, so new users can see the dramatic improvements that have been added in Minetest.

With your permission I'll take the task of making me the screenshots, then send the push! Thank you all. I await your permission.


Overview

(Added by rubenwardy)

condensed info from multiple views:

  • Show off Mapgen v7
  • photos with mods/subgames
  • photos with buildings
  • Multiplayer / photos with other players (and with varied armors/skins ?)
  • Authentic gameplay footage, not just some random landscape you found after flying around.
  • (maybe) texture packs (less important)
@est31
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@est31 est31 commented Dec 6, 2016

I think that would be a good idea. @paramat would certainly like it as well.

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 6, 2016

Ok. Tomorrow send push. I prepare good screenshots and then send my commit. Thanks, I'm glad you liked my idea, update the site every now and then is a good thing :)

@sfan5
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@sfan5 sfan5 commented Dec 7, 2016

minetest/minetest#4829 is not merged yet, we will need to await whether v7 gets into the release as default mapgen

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 7, 2016

Ok. I can wait. At most I 2/3 decent screenshots with the stable 0.4.14 just to do justice to the project! The v7 is included for some time, do not default but eventually users Minetest only uses the new V7. Thank you @sfan5

@est31
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@est31 est31 commented Dec 7, 2016

I don't think mgv7 should be the default for the website to have screenshots of it.

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 7, 2016

I fully support, in fact, the site needs to present the project in the best possible way. New users can see the true potential of the game, so I'm working as a photographer ^___^

I noticed that the screenshots on the official site are all at 1920x1080 resolution! my monitor is 1600x900! I see if I can find an option in the advanced settings, or see to manually solve!

Thanks @est31

@Calinou
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@Calinou Calinou commented Dec 7, 2016

Be sure to do this for all of your screenshots:

  • use fsaa = 8 (antialiasing),
  • use a view range of at least 200,
  • provide full-size versions in 1920×1080 (use screenW, screenH and fullscreen in minetest.conf),
  • enable shaders, but disable waving plants/leaves/water,
  • use the default gamma level in most cases, but use your own judgment – it can be a good idea to make things brighter when taking screenshots indoors or at night,
  • enable anisotropic filtering, but not bilinear or trilinear filtering. Textures should keep their pixelated looks, but not look noisy at a distance.
@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Dec 7, 2016

Minimap? Stops ugly detail at far range

@Calinou
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@Calinou Calinou commented Dec 7, 2016

Minimap? Stops ugly detail at far range

The HUD should be hidden on all screenshots except one, maybe.

@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Dec 7, 2016

Autocorrection, I meant mipmap

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 7, 2016

@Calinou Thank you! I imagine having to put in fullscreen. Thank you very much, now I have all the information I need.

HUD when I take off my screenshots 👍

@Calinou
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@Calinou Calinou commented Dec 7, 2016

Autocorrection, I meant mipmap

Mipmaps and anistropic filtering should be enabled (to remove texturing noise at a distance), but bilinear and trilinear filtering should not be (to preserve the "pixel art" look).

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 7, 2016

Ok. I posted the first screenshots "background-downloads.jpg" I ran the push on my fork, and then I sent the pull to you. Excuse me guys, generally use qithub alone, I would be happy to create new textures, and other content for the project, but I prefer to have confirmation from you, to make sure you do not make mistakes. thank you all.

@Calinou Thanks, I do research to find a guide on the rules to follow to collaborate with you. I'm 39 years old, using computers since 1984, but I have never worked with a team of experts like you.

@paramat
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@paramat paramat commented Dec 7, 2016

I assume you're searching through the screenshots thread in the forum? That's where i post all my mapgen screenshots.

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 7, 2016

The screenshots I do them. I sent the new commit, he says that it failed the check, perhaps requires the admin authorization?

Ok. I understand, I add committed under the previous one with the check failed. At least now I know how it works. Sorry again.

@mahmutelmas06
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@mahmutelmas06 mahmutelmas06 commented Dec 9, 2016

I always prefer the newest one if stable enough so voting for v7

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Dec 11, 2016

Since Minetest is an engine, I propose the screenshots should not limit themselves to Minetest Game or a 100% untouched mapgen output. I mean, some player buildings are OK, after all, building is one of the core tasks in Minetest).

On these pages you can find a few CC BY-SA 3.0 screenshots:
http://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest
http://wiki.minetest.net/Biomes
http://wiki.minetest.net/Map_generator

Here are some old but nice screenshots, but I fear you must ask posters for permission first:
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10366&start=25
Screenshots posted by me at the beginning of the first post of that thread are taken from me and everyone has my full permission to use them (CC-0).

These LGDB screenshots are all from me and you can use them, too:
https://lgdb.org/game/pixture
https://lgdb.org/game/lord-of-the-test

Long story short: All screenshots ever taken and published by me are CC-0. The problem might be you don't always know if it was me who took the screenshot.

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 11, 2016

@Wuzzy2 Thanks, I totally agree with you! Minetest grows with the work of all. The open-mindedness is essential for this wonderful project. Thanks so much ;)

I screenshots all I realize it, I do not take pictures of other users, not even in my blog.

@sfan5
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@sfan5 sfan5 commented Dec 12, 2016

@est31 @Calinou here's some I made today (with suggested settings, but without mipmap/ansio):

screenshot_20161212_172146
screenshot_20161212_172357
screenshot_20161212_172528
screenshot_20161212_172854
screenshot_20161212_173153
screenshot_20161212_173418

@est31
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@est31 est31 commented Dec 12, 2016

I like number 2, 4 and the last one.

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 16, 2016

My Pixel art experimental: D Screenshots 1920x1080 resolution, antialiasing x4, Mipmap, hidden chat, hidden hud. Greetings to all ;)

screenshot_20161216_215254

screenshot_20161216_215346

screenshot_20161216_215858

screenshot_20161216_215932

screenshot_20161216_215447

screenshot_20161216_215943

screenshot_20161215_142305

screenshot_20161218_160612

screenshot_20161213_173234

@SpaghettiDeveloper
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@SpaghettiDeveloper SpaghettiDeveloper commented Dec 22, 2016

@tobyplowy My screenshots are available to the community. I am my images, constructions I have created, with Minetest 0.4.14. I would love to realize buildings and images useful for the project. I await the new 0.4.15 and realize something fantastic with the new blocks (block tile).

@sfan5 sfan beautiful pictures!

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Mar 16, 2017

Now that v7 is the default, it is safe to include v7 screenshots. Sill there hasn't been a screenshot update. :-(

But I think you all make the mistake to intuitively filter out any non-Minetest Game and actual gameplay screenshots.
All your screenshots only show (near) vanilla output of the mapgen, and only in Minetest Game. This does a disservice to Minetest and Minetest Game, because Minetest is NOT just a map generator! xD

Screenshots should also show:

  • Other subgames (VERY important)
  • Authentic gameplay footage, not just some random landscape you found after flying around. Show off your singleplayer worlds, if you want! :D Some landscape screenshots are OK, but they shouldn't be the only ones
  • Buildings built by actual players
  • Multiplayer
  • Mods
  • (maybe) texture packs (less important)

The idea is to show off all of Minetest's capabilities. Minetest Game is just a tiny fraction of what Minetest is capable of.

Of course, screenshots with other mods or subgames or texture packs should be labelled as such.

If you need inspiration, have a look at this:
http://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest
I guess some of these screenshots can already be used.

I have a suggestion: We continue “brainstorming” and collect as many screenshots as possible. Then we seperate the wheat from the chaff, sort the good screenshots into categories and finally update that thing.

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Mar 16, 2017

Another screenshot dump (CC0):

Teaser:

Full Imgur albums:

https://imgur.com/a/lXQhU
(BFD, Lord of the Test)

https://imgur.com/a/s8z0X
(Minetest Game, Pixture, MineClone 2, rpgtest, random servers, fun with mapgen)

Please grab the screenshots before they are gone.

With the exception of the werid v5 mapgen experiment (https://i.imgur.com/bNvFruo.jpg) and the boat screenshot (https://i.imgur.com/5dCFaJ4.jpg), these screenshots show me playing for real (or at least show the worlds in which I play for real) and are thus authentic.

Some screenshots look very random, but hey, that's the nature of Minetest! 😀

Everyone: When you play Minetest next time, be ready to make a lot of screenshots, so you can post a screenshot dump here.

@rubenwardy rubenwardy changed the title Screenshots update Add better screenshots, and more screenshots Mar 20, 2017
@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Nov 19, 2017

Great screenshots, but they are a bit small. But it's not too bad.

@Calinou
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@Calinou Calinou commented Nov 20, 2017

The screenshots should be 1920×1080 at least (with a 16:9 aspect ratio), as they should be able to be enlarged when clicked. (The homepage will use downscaled thumbnails, of course.)

@D00Med
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@D00Med D00Med commented Nov 20, 2017

@Calinou Is there a way to take screenshots at a larger size than the minetest window?

@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Nov 20, 2017

graphics cards capable of 1080p? I do, but then again it was a $600 investment.

U wat m8?

Most new laptops without a dedicated graphics card can run at 1080p. Most new phones are at least 720p HD, with medium range running at at least 1080p. Even budget aptops come with 1080p screens even if the framerate in Minetest isn't great.

Regardless of this, it is completely irrelevant what resolution people run Minetest at. All that matters is what resolution looks best on the website and the sizes its displayed at.

PS. It should also be noted that in the cases of certain OS's, it may not even possible to fully capture 1080p or 720p due to the presence of the title bar or task bar.

This is bullshit. All major OSes and distros support fullscreen.

@lisacvuk
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@lisacvuk lisacvuk commented Nov 20, 2017

How long did it take you to load this issue using dialup, @sorcerykid?
:)

@sorcerykid
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@sorcerykid sorcerykid commented Nov 20, 2017

How long did it take you to load this issue using dialup, @sorcerykid?

Pretty much instantly since I have fiber-optic, and it is provided free with my apartment. Heck even my high school had broadband computer labs as far back as 1993. It's nice living only blocks from the University of Illinois.

Meanwhile since we're laughing about video capabilities, I always get a chuckle when players complain about low FPS in Minetest, when I never experience that problem on my laptop:

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16836

Anyway, back on topic, I will be glad to share screenshots of the just_test_tribute and extreme survival subgames, since those should also be worthy candidates for this project.

@sofar
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@sofar sofar commented Nov 20, 2017

Having screenshots at a high resolution allows the website to be (1) flexible about the displayed size of screenshots and (2) create high quality images that are a lower resolution.

It's not that we want to force webpage visitors to view 1920x1080 images all the time, but due to image compression and loss when recoding and scaling, it's just that low quality/low resolution screenshots quickly become unusable (ugly/painful to watch) for web viewing purposes.

You may think that playing minetest at 720p with low video quality settings is adequate, but if you take non-FSAA screenshots at that resolution and upload them to a website, and then view them on a smartphone browser, you'll likely think that minetest is a 15 year old game famous for it's terrible graphics.

We don't want MT to be known as a low quality graphical game. We want it to be known as a high-quality graphical game that also runs well on low end hardware.

So, the submitted source base material should be of a consistently high quality level.

Here are some general guidelines I follow for screenshots:

If you're submitting screenshots that are not 1920x1080 but lower, you should ask others to take screenshots instead. Try and enable 8xFSAA, but disable waving leaves and water, and possibly waving plants. Tonemapping generally gives pleasurable images as well. Hiding the UI should probably not be done unless you're showing landscapes or builds, but you should hide chat and wait for the chat pane and HUD texts to disappear. Disable debug text (f5) as well. If the minimap shows unloaded blocks, hide it or travel around a bit to make it full.

As for composition, there are many photography guides on composition that are relevant. Since light isn't something easily changed, you should focus on composition and bring out your subject. Consider changing FOV to accentuate subjects. If you're working in an enclosed small space, increase FOV to 75 or higher to capture small spaces. If you're capturing details in landscaping or small builds, consider moving further away and use a lower FOV to get a good portrait style shot. Don't disable fog, but use it smart. If the subject is a bit further away, fog will accentuate the depth of the subject. A good measure is to make the fog start just at the front of the subject, so that the depth of the subject becomes apparent. You can do this by tuning the viewing range. In general, you don't ever want to crop your images. Always shoot exactly the frame you want. Cropping means a loss of detail and poor composition, and results in lower quality screenshots.

Cheers.

@paramat
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@paramat paramat commented Nov 20, 2017

The issues with <1920 screenshots are not nearly that bad, smaller images can look fine rescaled.
Insisting on 1920 rules out many people being able to submit screenshots, such as me, and i have a good Intel core i5 computer with a quality reasonable size 24" 1600x1050 screen (not small by any standard). It simply won't be practical to ask someone else with a larger screen to take a certain screenshot, so your choice of screenshots will fall dramatically.
You also then rule out a huge resource of past screenshots which may be excellent.
Calinou has powerful equipment and has an excessively high standard when it comes to screen sizes, not everyone can afford such equipment, especially users of MT who tend to not have a lot of money.
Anything around 1280x720 is fine.
This idea that any image on the internet <1920 looks bad is ridiculous, everyone knows that's not true.
There don't have to be any hard rules on FSAA or settings, if it looks good that's all that matters.

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Nov 20, 2017

8xFSAA

Ffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu …
I totally forgot that one. Most screenshots of my last post have the right size, but I did not turn on FSAA. I will remove the low-res screenshots now.

So basically this means all screenshots which have been posted so far are garbage?
Now I have to re-do all screenshots all over again. >_>

BTW: Players have to jump through hoops right now just to enable fullscreen. So it's also not trivial to enable anti-aliasing. So most players will NOT have anti-aliasing. :-(

By the way: ANY screenshots are better than the crappy screenshots we currently have on our homepage. Just saying. ;-)
If you're so perfectionist that means we just stick longer with the worst screenshots.
Who says we have to get it perfect on the first try? How about incremental updates?

By the way (part 2): Absolutely zero comments on my previous screenshot collection? Boo!

By the way (part 3): How about instead of complaining, you just start helping, too? 😠

@sofar
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@sofar sofar commented Nov 20, 2017

Insisting on 1920 rules out many people being able to submit screenshots, such as me

So basically this means all screenshots which have been posted so far are garbage?

no, I didn't say that. Stop turning words around.

We should strive to get the best quality screenshots. Striving means that we ask for a certain quality, not refuse lower quality.

I'm not being a dick about bad screenshots, my guidelines are only a suggestion, and they are perhaps somewhat aggressive but not insensible. As shown on the current website, most of our current screenshots don't even pass the bar that I'd like to have as a recommendation.

Remember, I used the word "SHOULD" not the word "MUST".

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Nov 20, 2017

Can someone besides me please vote on the top screenshots we got so far?

I want to know what you're aiming for. :)

I don't want to argue, I now just want to get this thing done. This issue has been open long enough now.

@sfan5
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@sfan5 sfan5 commented Nov 20, 2017

So basically this means all screenshots which have been posted so far are garbage?

Mine have FSAAx4 enabled, which was suggested by @Calinou

@Calinou
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@Calinou Calinou commented Nov 20, 2017

Mine have FSAAx4 enabled, which was suggested by @Calinou

8× MSAA is preferable, but I'm being picky here – 4× looks decent as well. (I edited my suggestion post accordingly.)

@benrob0329
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@benrob0329 benrob0329 commented Mar 12, 2018

Perhaps a screenshot of the month to keep new images coming in, with different games and texture packs would be good?

@Megaf Megaf mentioned this issue Mar 14, 2018
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@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Mar 23, 2018

I'd like to see screenshots which look less "Minecrafty" - so mesh node builds, interesting visual mechanics, etc

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Mar 24, 2018

Oh, come on!
Just add a couple of screenshots already, please! Who cares if they aren't perfect or “too minecrafty”? We already gave you plenty of images to pick. They can't all be garbage, right?

We had this discussion for over 1 year with not a single screenshot added. :-( Why does everything have to be discussed to death?

Could you at least replace the current 6 boring screenshots by 6 interesting ones, just to get warmed up? ;-) Or am I asking for too much?

@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Mar 24, 2018

Who cares if they aren't perfect or “too minecrafty”?

I do. This is supposed to be a game engine, so the home page should show variety. Part of that should be showing non-blocky builds and mechanics which obviously differ from MC

We had this discussion for over 1 year with not a single screenshot added. :-( Why does everything have to be discussed to death?

No one has made a PR yet. Or even made a shortlist to discuss, just a ton of varying quality screenshots

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Mar 24, 2018

Fine. Here's my quick and dirty top 6, chosen from my own previous images:
https://i.imgur.com/ARxsmwp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sxaYGvC.png
https://i.imgur.com/oaxM7eR.png
https://i.imgur.com/fyPc1vo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/R7B0E54.png
https://i.imgur.com/Snx6tpx.png

Note: My motto is “authenticity over beauty”. Let's be honest, Minetest is not often beautiful. :P I don't like “staged” screenshots, they are kinda like lies.

PS: Do you realize how frustrating it to read something like this?:

just a ton of varying quality screenshots

I feel like my collected screenshots were just a waste of time. :O
It seems the only way to make you happy is to start completely from scratch. Not that we have made any actual progress so far …

I'm not sure if I still have the motivation to post more screenshots, after having been rejected so many times. :-(

@Ezhh
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@Ezhh Ezhh commented Mar 24, 2018

Quick and dirty is really not what's needed...

Pink wood? Only one screenshot that seems to use MTG textures? Quite old version of game? But mostly come on... pink wood? :(

Being more serious, by all means, pick some screenshots, but please follow some basic guidelines.

  • use at least current stable.
  • only include common and well know games and mods (yes, you might hate it, but that means mostly MTG and default textures - we should be showing people at least mostly what they will get when they try the game, not what they might get waaaay later once they learn to change everything).
  • don't have things displaying in chat.
  • if adding buildings, at least make them impressive buildings.
@sfan5
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@sfan5 sfan5 commented Mar 24, 2018

Note that uploading screenshots to imgur is not a good idea as they apply quite heavy compression.

@paramat
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@paramat paramat commented Sep 24, 2018

It seems that choosing screenshots may be the most difficult issue :) Who chooses, how to decide?

A core of screenshots following the guidelines agreed is good, placed first. But i wouldn't rule out extra screenshots that don't meet the guidelines, as long as they are good screenshots. Most good screenshots were made in the past without considering the guidelines here, they may be smaller than huge, have shaders turned off, have chat visible etc.

Perhaps add a link to the forum's screenshot thread on the gallery page? Then there is access to always-updating screenshots.

@Treer
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@Treer Treer commented Sep 27, 2018

Perhaps add a link to the forum's screenshot thread on the gallery page?

Perhaps a "more screenshots" link at the bottom of the gallery, which goes to a second page that's all screenshots. I'd still have the second page curated, but more relaxed about it. That allows cool shots that didn't meet guidelines, but also:

rubenwardy said:

I am wondering how to show variety of content, for example different possible games. This could be done later by adding more screenshots

and I think he's right - there's no way to convey the variety in 6 screenshots, and I imagine a good chunk of the people looking for screenshots would click through to the next page. So include a link to the forum's screenshot thread on the second page?

@Wuzzy2
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@Wuzzy2 Wuzzy2 commented Sep 27, 2018

I am amazed that after almost 2 years we still did not manage to find at least six (SIX!!!) non-crappy screenshots. We are still at square one. There's not even a “preliminary solution”.

A link to the screenshot thread is not ideal, as the quality of the screenshots there varies wildly.

@rubenwardy
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@rubenwardy rubenwardy commented Sep 27, 2018

Have you seen this PR: #143

@Treer
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@Treer Treer commented Sep 28, 2018

Now that screenshots have updated, replacement talk doesn't risk derailing it...

One reason there's lava in (6) is it was influenced by Calinou's original screenshot topics, so if there's no love for a lava shot it could be an opportunity to show a different game, or caverealms instead of default caves.

perhaps the gamma in (5) should be brighter? It seems to look good on computers, but dark on my phone.

Would using Skybox in screenshots be giving a misleading impression?

Should a mob be visible somewhere in the gallery or on the front page?

The background of the Minetest banner is also a gallery opportunity, the background of the downloads page looks great.

@CasimirKaPazi
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@CasimirKaPazi CasimirKaPazi commented Mar 2, 2019

I have an idea to get many good quality and diverse screenshots.
In the forum make a thread for screenshot suggestions to add to the website. Detail all the requirements and explain how to meet them. How to enable anti aliasing, disable chat and inventory, etc. Looking straight, so that vertical lines are parallel also makes for better pictures.
Specify in the first post that every screenshot posted in this thread will be Creative Commons and that they have to list games and mods used.

People will be happy to submit their works. The high requirements also don't hinder, they make sure that people put a minimum amount of effort in making good screenshots.

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