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Default: New jungletree_top texture #880

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paramat commented Feb 28, 2016

screenshot_20160304_005050

new_jungletree_top_octagonal5_128

^ Submitted (branch not yet updated)

rosewood-stump-and-wastage-560x260

^ Rosewood

default_jungletree_top_128

^ Current texture

The colour palette of the lianas and bark is taken from the jungletree side texture.

For discussion of the structure of Minetest's jungletree node see #611 (comment) and c55's comment #611 (comment)

index

^ Strangler fig

strangled

By blurring the side texture you can see the structure is 4 thick lianas (like the strangler fig in the photo) running along the node corners, this is confirmed by c55. Our previous 2 top textures have flattened the lianas down to a single pixel, along with the wrong bark colour. My texture gives the lianas some thickness by making them triangular in cross section. To make the structure fill the cube the trunk is therefore an octagon.

The junglewood planks texture is closest in appearence to Wenge and Rosewood. The tree shape seems to be closer to Rosewood than Wenge. So this texture is designed to look similar to those two trees.

0304 greenpeace 2013-03-04-at-2 05 31-pm 360

^ Wenge

I have re-arranged my own texture credits into categories.
I have removed the 'derived from ...' comments because they are making the file look messy, are not used by others, and i think not needed because many textures are edited versions of previous textures and this can be assumed, the credit just shows who edited a texture last.

@paramat paramat added the Textures label Feb 28, 2016

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Its planks have a total different color. Big inconsistency.

Fortunally we're saved by texture packs...

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kilbith commented Feb 28, 2016

Its planks have a total different color. Big inconsistency.

Fortunally we're saved by texture packs...

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I might try adjusting the colour of the centre to be closer to the wood texture. More dark brown, less red.

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paramat commented Feb 28, 2016

I might try adjusting the colour of the centre to be closer to the wood texture. More dark brown, less red.

@paramat paramat changed the title from Default: New jungletree_top texture to Default: New jungletree_top texture WIP Feb 28, 2016

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C1ffisme Feb 28, 2016

The Real Life texture does look a bit browner.

There seems to be quite some confusion on what tree the jungle tree is. It's probably worth solving at some point.

C1ffisme commented Feb 28, 2016

The Real Life texture does look a bit browner.

There seems to be quite some confusion on what tree the jungle tree is. It's probably worth solving at some point.

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Agree with kilbith

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Fixer-007 commented Feb 28, 2016

Agree with kilbith

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Updated, thanks kilbith.

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paramat commented Feb 28, 2016

Updated, thanks kilbith.

@paramat paramat changed the title from Default: New jungletree_top texture WIP to Default: New jungletree_top texture Feb 28, 2016

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@paramat I like the new texture, but could you smooth the bark of it a bit more. It currently looks a bit too flat.

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RHRhino commented Feb 29, 2016

@paramat I like the new texture, but could you smooth the bark of it a bit more. It currently looks a bit too flat.

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C1ffisme Feb 29, 2016

Looks really, really good. 👍

C1ffisme commented Feb 29, 2016

Looks really, really good. 👍

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PixelBOX's textures, for comparison :

screenshot_20160229_140304

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kilbith commented Feb 29, 2016

PixelBOX's textures, for comparison :

screenshot_20160229_140304

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@kilbith In my opinion the jungle leaves are better than the current ones, but the tree logs (green and light green) don't fit with the (dark brown) jungle wood texture.

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RHRhino commented Feb 29, 2016

@kilbith In my opinion the jungle leaves are better than the current ones, but the tree logs (green and light green) don't fit with the (dark brown) jungle wood texture.

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MoNTE48 Mar 1, 2016

Pixelbox is better

MoNTE48 commented Mar 1, 2016

Pixelbox is better

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Updated on request of Nore and ShadowNinja. The previous black pixels at the texture edges are now dark green to blend with the bark texture in the side texture, this makes the top edges more continuous.

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paramat commented Mar 1, 2016

Updated on request of Nore and ShadowNinja. The previous black pixels at the texture edges are now dark green to blend with the bark texture in the side texture, this makes the top edges more continuous.

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Frankly I like the existing texture much better than the proposed replacement. It's too "hard edged". No antialiasing.

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VanessaE commented Mar 1, 2016

Frankly I like the existing texture much better than the proposed replacement. It's too "hard edged". No antialiasing.

@paramat paramat changed the title from Default: New jungletree_top texture to Default: New jungletree_top texture WIP Mar 1, 2016

@paramat paramat changed the title from Default: New jungletree_top texture WIP to Default: New jungletree_top texture Mar 2, 2016

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Updated with new texture.

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paramat commented Mar 2, 2016

Updated with new texture.

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Vanessa it's pixel art so doesn't necessarily need anti-aliasing. AA makes an image look like a low-res representation of a hi-res image, another approach is to simply consider it as pixel art that is itself and not a representation. I think the diagonal detials look okay, AA might make those details larger and blurry, currently it's clear and defined.
But then we have differing tastes in texture design.

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paramat commented Mar 2, 2016

Vanessa it's pixel art so doesn't necessarily need anti-aliasing. AA makes an image look like a low-res representation of a hi-res image, another approach is to simply consider it as pixel art that is itself and not a representation. I think the diagonal detials look okay, AA might make those details larger and blurry, currently it's clear and defined.
But then we have differing tastes in texture design.

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Real pixel art has, for most of its history (as in from early in the 8-bit era of computing), been about artistic style and expression, not usually about representing something realistically, and has almost always included at least basic use of anti-aliasing (in most cases, a hell of a lot of it). Usually that's due to having a limited color palette, but in our case it's simply due to limited resolution.

That said, this is a tree, not a random, fictional machine. It needs to actually look like a tree. :-)

Your top/center texture does not match well, style-wise, with the sides of the tree or the periphery of the top side, and, as the jungle tree is based on a strangler fig wrapped around something, the top of the tree needs to show the shape distortions the fig would cause to the center part. The shape is too geometric. To my eyes, it looks like a slightly-wrong octagon, rather than the slightly-distorted square shape the current texture has, and this looks wrong when used on a square trunk.

I don't disagree with you about how the edge-pixels align with the sides of the tree, you're right that that needs fixed.

tl;dr: The top part needs to be lower-contrast, maybe a little darker, distorted, and anti-aliased a little on the sharpest edges.

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VanessaE commented Mar 2, 2016

Real pixel art has, for most of its history (as in from early in the 8-bit era of computing), been about artistic style and expression, not usually about representing something realistically, and has almost always included at least basic use of anti-aliasing (in most cases, a hell of a lot of it). Usually that's due to having a limited color palette, but in our case it's simply due to limited resolution.

That said, this is a tree, not a random, fictional machine. It needs to actually look like a tree. :-)

Your top/center texture does not match well, style-wise, with the sides of the tree or the periphery of the top side, and, as the jungle tree is based on a strangler fig wrapped around something, the top of the tree needs to show the shape distortions the fig would cause to the center part. The shape is too geometric. To my eyes, it looks like a slightly-wrong octagon, rather than the slightly-distorted square shape the current texture has, and this looks wrong when used on a square trunk.

I don't disagree with you about how the edge-pixels align with the sides of the tree, you're right that that needs fixed.

tl;dr: The top part needs to be lower-contrast, maybe a little darker, distorted, and anti-aliased a little on the sharpest edges.

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C1ffisme Mar 2, 2016

@paramat I'm not sure I like that circle, though maybe if the white was a tad darker, it would fit in a bit more.

By the way, how do you take a screenshot from exactly the same angle every time?

C1ffisme commented Mar 2, 2016

@paramat I'm not sure I like that circle, though maybe if the white was a tad darker, it would fit in a bit more.

By the way, how do you take a screenshot from exactly the same angle every time?

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the top of the tree needs to show the shape distortions the fig would cause to the center part.

It does, the trunk is deformed to a trucated square.

The shape is too geometric.

Our trees have perfect square trunks :)

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paramat commented Mar 2, 2016

the top of the tree needs to show the shape distortions the fig would cause to the center part.

It does, the trunk is deformed to a trucated square.

The shape is too geometric.

Our trees have perfect square trunks :)

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👎

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nerzhul commented Mar 2, 2016

👎

@paramat paramat added this to the 0.4.14 milestone Mar 2, 2016

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My attitude has shifted, i will add AA to this, it has been requested by other devs.

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paramat commented Mar 2, 2016

My attitude has shifted, i will add AA to this, it has been requested by other devs.

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Added screenshot and sample of AA version, not yet updated in branch.

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paramat commented Mar 3, 2016

Added screenshot and sample of AA version, not yet updated in branch.

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👍 (however, why have you modified README.md that much?)

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Ekdohibs commented Mar 3, 2016

👍 (however, why have you modified README.md that much?)

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👎, this texture has way too much contrast.

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PilzAdam commented Mar 3, 2016

👎, this texture has way too much contrast.

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ObaniGemini Mar 3, 2016

It's round in a real tree because the tree is round. Here it shall be a square, adding some circle in the texture just makes it awful to look. Also, the clearest part is too light to me.

👎

Pixel Box's jungle trees are better because they are unified and good looking. Also, if you replace that greenish color with some dark-brown color, I think it would still fit well.

ObaniGemini commented Mar 3, 2016

It's round in a real tree because the tree is round. Here it shall be a square, adding some circle in the texture just makes it awful to look. Also, the clearest part is too light to me.

👎

Pixel Box's jungle trees are better because they are unified and good looking. Also, if you replace that greenish color with some dark-brown color, I think it would still fit well.

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You misunderstand, read the first comment for why it's octagonal.

I might make the ring less bright, as PilzAdam requests.
Also i might add a brighter centre to the lianas to look more like cross-sections.
Ekdohibs, have added explanation of credits edits.

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paramat commented Mar 3, 2016

You misunderstand, read the first comment for why it's octagonal.

I might make the ring less bright, as PilzAdam requests.
Also i might add a brighter centre to the lianas to look more like cross-sections.
Ekdohibs, have added explanation of credits edits.

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0-afflatus Mar 3, 2016

I think the texture should be less bright and contrasty, I agree with all that.

The rest is really a matter of taste. I think the Pixel Box jungle trees are horrible personally. But my opinion isn't important here as I shall stick with VanessE's multicoloured textures. Committee-led design decisions tend to lead to camels and magnolia wallpaper in my experience.

0-afflatus commented Mar 3, 2016

I think the texture should be less bright and contrasty, I agree with all that.

The rest is really a matter of taste. I think the Pixel Box jungle trees are horrible personally. But my opinion isn't important here as I shall stick with VanessE's multicoloured textures. Committee-led design decisions tend to lead to camels and magnolia wallpaper in my experience.

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@paramat I'm not requesting to tweak the texture. I think the current texture is good enough.

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PilzAdam commented Mar 4, 2016

@paramat I'm not requesting to tweak the texture. I think the current texture is good enough.

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PilzAdam, okay. The current texture is not good, it was carelessly chosen during the last discussion on this texture. It has no consistency with the side texture and the confirmed structure of the node. The core is an ugly colour that is not dark enough for the wood it creates. Even the creator VanessaE admits it is inconsistent.

Updated, see new images in first comment. Core is a little brighter and is a more orangey dark brown to appear closer to Rosewood and Wenge. The strangler fig lianas now have a brighter core to appear as cut cross-sections. Now the octagonal trunk and 4 lianas have a very clear structure.

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paramat commented Mar 4, 2016

PilzAdam, okay. The current texture is not good, it was carelessly chosen during the last discussion on this texture. It has no consistency with the side texture and the confirmed structure of the node. The core is an ugly colour that is not dark enough for the wood it creates. Even the creator VanessaE admits it is inconsistent.

Updated, see new images in first comment. Core is a little brighter and is a more orangey dark brown to appear closer to Rosewood and Wenge. The strangler fig lianas now have a brighter core to appear as cut cross-sections. Now the octagonal trunk and 4 lianas have a very clear structure.

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Because this is a texture i would like to have majority approval, so i am hoping for 2 approvals in addition to mine. Ekdohibs i hope this texture is still okay for you.

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paramat commented Mar 4, 2016

Because this is a texture i would like to have majority approval, so i am hoping for 2 approvals in addition to mine. Ekdohibs i hope this texture is still okay for you.

@paramat paramat added the One approval label Mar 4, 2016

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the tree is to be round, the inner core rings might be round too.

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Napiophelios commented Mar 4, 2016

the tree is to be round, the inner core rings might be round too.

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ObaniGemini Mar 4, 2016

I think the current texture is not good enough but this one is even worse to me. And I don't care about any lianas argument.

ObaniGemini commented Mar 4, 2016

I think the current texture is not good enough but this one is even worse to me. And I don't care about any lianas argument.

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Napiophelios, it's not round it's octagonal, but more intended to be a square with chopped corners, i deliberately kept the rings square to keep a 'square' character. I usually oppose roundness in Minetest.

The inside of the log being exposed like this as roots or branches looks a little odd so how about i add root/branch nodes to all trees that have the side texture on all 6 faces? These would drop normal logs.

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paramat commented Mar 4, 2016

Napiophelios, it's not round it's octagonal, but more intended to be a square with chopped corners, i deliberately kept the rings square to keep a 'square' character. I usually oppose roundness in Minetest.

The inside of the log being exposed like this as roots or branches looks a little odd so how about i add root/branch nodes to all trees that have the side texture on all 6 faces? These would drop normal logs.

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paramat commented Mar 4, 2016

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Gael-de-Sailly Mar 4, 2016

Agree with @ObaniGemini and @PilzAdam. This seems too contrasted. For me the previous texture was good.
However, for the leaves texture, the one @kilbith showed could be better.

Gael-de-Sailly commented Mar 4, 2016

Agree with @ObaniGemini and @PilzAdam. This seems too contrasted. For me the previous texture was good.
However, for the leaves texture, the one @kilbith showed could be better.

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paramat commented Mar 6, 2016

@paramat paramat closed this Mar 6, 2016

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@paramat so we ignore my 👎 now?

Can you at least make the circle less regular? And maybe modify the jungle tree placement so that the bottom nodes are pointing sideways and not up?

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PilzAdam commented Mar 6, 2016

@paramat so we ignore my 👎 now?

Can you at least make the circle less regular? And maybe modify the jungle tree placement so that the bottom nodes are pointing sideways and not up?

@paramat paramat deleted the paramat:jungletop branch Mar 7, 2016

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