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Rename this Project #47

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flying-sheep opened this issue Dec 10, 2016 · 123 comments

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@flying-sheep
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commented Dec 10, 2016

The current name might confuse people into thinking this was an official port, filing bugs on the official bug tracker for it and so on.

There will never be an official Python 2.8, so there should never be something called “Python 2.8” or similar.

@gvanrossum might confirm this if you don't believe my words.

@flying-sheep

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I basically just filed an issue for what people in this thread were saying

@nirs

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Cpython maintainers has abandoned python 2 and the community. I don't see an issue with this name.

Maybe python 3 should change its name, as distriburions are planing to ship python3 as python, breaking good python code assuming that python executable can run python code.

@flying-sheep

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I’m sorry you feel that way, but what you say is not, in fact, the truth. Python 3 is just the next version of the language, announced ~10 years ago. All the time, it was clear Python 2 was going to be deprecated and discontinued eventually, just like Python 1, Java 4, and Lua 5.2.

People had 8 years to make their unit tests run with Python 3. I don’t know what led to the misconception that Python 2 was going to stick around unlike every deprecated version of any language or software ever.

There was no abandonment of any community, just a bunch of people deciding to defer eliminating technical debt while rationalizing that decision by forming a weird emotional attachment to some programming language’s old version.

@yan12125

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commented Dec 10, 2016

At least this line should be at the first line: This is not an official Python release; see PEP 404, not in the bottom

@flying-sheep

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commented Dec 10, 2016

By the way: If this project gets people to port more easily then I’m all for it!

But the PSF owns the name Python, so unless they decide to adopt this project (which very likely won’t happen because of PEP 404), this project can’t keep its name.

@ncoghlan

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Firstly, thanks for taking on the task of creating a hybrid superset of Python 2 that incorporates features you find interesting! Allowing folks to vote with their time and energy and create the projects and remixes that they wish existed is exactly the kind of thing that open source licensing is designed to allow.

However, as others have noted above, the PSF does have various policies specifically around the use of the Python mark, and the Trademarks Committee are reviewing the question of whether or not the current name of the project is appropriate in that light.

There's precedent for Python subsets and variants using the term as part of a longer name (e.g. MicroPython, Stackless Python), so something like "HybridPython" would be more likely to pass muster than an unqualified "Python".

Alternatively, a name like NorwegianBlue would reference Guido's original inspiration for the name of the language, while completely steering clear of any possible trademark concerns.

@dw

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I'm really happy to see a project like this gain a little traction, and I truly hope it succeeds as I'm certainly not the first or hundredth person to think something like it might be a good idea.

For that reason, and since currently it looks like @naftaliharris is the only developer, spending the limited energy available on an unwinnable trademark issue probably would not be wise.

+1 for changing the project name to something distinct, but it would also be great if the installed binaries and libraries maintained the same interface as official Python, since I think renames there would impact the project's usefulness.

@flying-sheep

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commented Dec 10, 2016

it would also be great if the installed binaries and libraries maintained the same interface as official Python

sure, just not $prefix/bin/python2.8

@gvanrossum

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Since I was asked: The project's name (and its binary name) need to change. They are misleading. The rest looks acceptable according to Python's license. This is not an endorsement (far from it).

@tiran

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Please also change the name of any helper scripts, the name of the shared library/DLL and the include directory. The name of the header file Python.h can probably stay since it's part of the public API.

  • /usr/bin/python
  • /usr/bin/python2.8
  • /usr/bin/python-config
  • /usr/bin/python2.8-config
  • /usr/lib/libpython*
  • /usr/include/python2.8
@stefantalpalaru

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I'll write a Gentoo ebuild for this package, as soon as you settle on a new name for it.

@dbohdan

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commented Dec 10, 2016

If you're going to change the project's name, let me suggest some short, Monty Python-themed options.

  • Pythonesque (/usr/bin/pesque)
  • Reunion
  • Cleese
  • Brian
  • Wanda
  • Nudge
  • Rabbit
  • Brazil
@stefantalpalaru

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commented Dec 10, 2016

How about "py2", taking a hint from "pypy"?

@giampaolo

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commented Dec 10, 2016

"py28"?

@stefantalpalaru

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Why also freeze the minor version? It's perfectly possible that a 2.9.x will be released at some point.

@trevyn

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commented Dec 10, 2016

"p"

@paul-nechifor

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Sadly, P is taken: http://esolangs.org/wiki/P .

@trevyn

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Looks abandoned, site is down and everything.

@maedoc

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Since both 2 and 3 features are handled you might consider six (I'm aware that's also the name of a compatibility package).

@naftaliharris

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I don't mind renaming this project. Any other suggestions for good names? I personally like "Pythonesque (/usr/bin/pesque)" the best so far, thanks @dbohdan! :-)

@VanL, not that I'm necessarily picking that, but would a name like that be acceptable?

@refi64

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Brydge? Since it's"between" 2 and 3...

Ok, I'll leave now.

@teles

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Change the name for snake 🐍 !

@nirs

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Maybe nython for "nython is not official python"? or for "Naftali's Python"?

@degaart

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commented Dec 10, 2016

"snek", please name it "snek"!!!!

@JulienPalard

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Still Monty Python inspired: pysant, pronounced "peasant"? (Or present you choose).

A what?
A present!
A what???
A present!
A what???
Un cadeau !
Ahhhh, "a present"!

@dubberx

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commented Dec 10, 2016

I like @teles name-of-a-snake idea. What about

  • kraithon

, blending krait and python (krait, family of snakes, rhymes with "kite")?

@ojn

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Just remove the h - Pyton or call it Flying Circus.

@naftaliharris

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commented Dec 10, 2016

Pyton

Heh. I actually mess this up so often that I alias this on my machine to "python": https://github.com/naftaliharris/dotfiles/blob/master/.bashrc#L151

@ojn

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commented Dec 10, 2016

As I think about it, Monty would be a cool name...

@mrabarnett

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commented Dec 10, 2016

As it's Python 2, how about DuoPython?

@elkarouh

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commented Jan 17, 2017

Name suggestion: Python2++

@RecklessProcedure

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commented Jan 18, 2017

I'm all for this. I despise Python3 for a number of reasons. Ever have a reason to compile Python from scratch? When you try to build Python3: "Error: G++ required" "Test suite must be run from an xterminal". So much for a system with only cross-compiled C and/or anyone running without Xorg. Such nonsense decisions by the Py3 team, the worst of which was a decision to re-implement rather than extend in more Unicode friendly ways. Shovel the work onto your users.

Anyway, about the name: Typhon is an anagram of the name. Thypon is another, with a slightly Monte sound.

@tiran

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commented Jan 18, 2017

Well, this discussion hit rock bottom with fake news and false accusations.

@pfalcon

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commented Jan 18, 2017

Also, stats: during the last month (which generally should be prolific at least in the number of people poked with it, due to holidays), 3 people contributed commits, 23 the maintainer and 2 other people contributed a commit each. So, importance and usefulness of this project seems to be overrated. This is a cute pet project for @naftaliharris , and he can be only wished best of luck with it, and so far he chose the right name for the project: "placeholder" is confusing, but the whole project is confusing, so naming is on par.

@refi64

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commented Jan 18, 2017

@tiran

Well, this discussion hit rock bottom with fake news and false accusations.

Words of truth right there...

@alanjds

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commented Jan 18, 2017

A placeholder between Python 2 and Python 3 is nice for me. Just have no clue that it is a Python-related thing.

plyceholder ?

@RecklessProcedure

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commented Jan 18, 2017

As to fake news and false accusations: All of that I see is people coming here to make some kind of trouble or discouraging remark about someone trying to keep 2.x alive. What motivates them is irrelevant, conspiracy or not. But, as much as I'd like to see 2.x keep going, I largely do not care. Why? Because the 2/3 debacle has caused me no small amount of trouble. As such, I've ruled the language out as a whole for anything but small scripts going forward and... I'm not the only one to do so.

@refi64

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commented Jan 18, 2017

I'm going to humbly suggest that @naftaliharris lock this issue, because at this point it's mostly people suggesting random names (too many to search through) or people yelling "omg python three suxx" or "omg dis project is stuupidz" or other random crap...

@pfalcon

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commented Jan 18, 2017

someone trying to keep 2.x alive

The Python release team keeps 2.x alive. They do that for 16 years. Nobody was able to beat them at that so far. Only 2.7.x series is kept alive for 6 years, with current release being 2.7.13.

I'm not the only one to do so.

You aren't. But everyone else either keeps using 2.x or have switched to 3.x over last 9 years. (Supporting both ain't rocket science either, though with Python3 being available for long time everywhere, there's little point to do so for new projects.) And there's hard to talk about discouragement of projects like this - Python community has always been, and always will be prolific - it's not like other languages, where there's barely a couple of implementations. Stackless Python, Unladen Swallow, Nuitka, PyPy, Pyston, Grumpy, and many of others, including bunch to come. It's just matter of fact that some of these implementations are used less than others, and some even get abandoned.

@hadrianw

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commented Jan 19, 2017

Name proposal: February Python (as it is between 27 and 30 having only 28 or 29 days)

Variations: pyfebruary, Eternal February (eterfeb), Fybruar, February Edition

But placholder is nice as it is.

Disclaimer: I do not have horses in this race.

@dhj-io

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commented Jan 22, 2017

My favorites so far --

nipy : Ni Python (from @senyai )
zython : The last py you'll need (from @paul-nechifor )
pystasis, pyfrost : good indication of support for fixes with no breaking changes (from @ncoghlan )
monty : great one for obvious reasons. maybe the student project would be cool with it (from @ojn )
pyclassic : reminiscent of when coca-cola fixed their mistake.

@mvasilkov

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commented Jan 22, 2017

I kinda like the name Placeholder.

As for the binaries, they can be e.g. prefixed with p: /usr/local/bin/ppython

@sergey-salnikov

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commented Jan 22, 2017

Ex-Ex-Parrot (/usr/bin/xxp)?

@ojn

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commented Jan 22, 2017

As @ncoghlan mentioned, asciipy describes the project nicely. PSF would probably also allow asciiPython name since it's clear that it is a different python implementation.

@omeid

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commented Jan 23, 2017

bython as in, Backported Python?

@mirabilos

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commented Jan 23, 2017

Nothing with py- or alluring to python, to avoid confusion.

@stefantalpalaru

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commented Jan 23, 2017

When you decide on a name, this should help you find the places that need to be edited: https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay/blob/master/dev-lang/py28/files/py28-rename.patch

Some "python2.8" symlinks are needed so existing autotools setups work unmodified, but that's more of a distro packager issue. On Gentoo I'm getting away with only:

/usr/lib64/python2.8
/usr/lib64/libpython2.8.a
/usr/lib64/libpython2.8.so

later edit: Gentoo package renamed; the mentioned patch is now at https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay/blob/master/dev-lang/tauthon/files/tauthon-rename.patch

@denysvitali

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commented Jan 26, 2017

To be honest, I quite like "placeholder" as a name

@sibayanjasper

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commented Feb 1, 2017

I suggest

  • dpy - Discontinued python
  • opy - Overhauled python (sounds like o-pie)
  • vyper - "viper" another snake but with "y" for familiarity
  • senpy - notice me
  • pynest
@hashbackup

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commented Feb 2, 2017

Suggestion: py

It's short & obviously not a trademark infringement on Python

@perennialmind

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commented Feb 2, 2017

I know placeholder is py 2.x, not pi × 2, but what about tauthon in the spirit of the Tau Manifesto? It's cheeky and fits the contrarian viewpoint.

@mrabarnett

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commented Feb 2, 2017

"py" is already used by Python as a launcher.

@naftaliharris

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commented Feb 2, 2017

I know placeholder is py 2.x, not pi × 2, but what about tauthon in the spirit of the Tau Manifesto?

Perfect perfect PERFECT! :-D

  • 6.28: six, like the six module. 28, as in PEP 404.
  • pi -> tau, like e.g. C -> C++
  • Two syllables, easy to say.
  • Domain name is open, (though not anymore!)
  • No debian packages of the same name.
  • No other projects of the same name
  • Obviously not an official python release.
  • "It's cheeky and fits the contrarian viewpoint."

"tauthon" is the new and permanent name of this project.

Thanks @perennialmind!

@naftaliharris

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commented Feb 2, 2017

Thanks a lot to everyone who suggested names--they were uniformly better than my ideas. You're all a lot more talented than me at this, apparently. :-)

Next up, PR to change the name!

@ncoghlan

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commented Feb 2, 2017

math.tau just landed in 3.6 as well :)

Very cool idea @perennialmind, and thanks once again for being such a good sport about finding a new name, @naftaliharris!

@naftaliharris

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commented Feb 2, 2017

math.tau just landed in 3.6 as well :)

Ha, well tauthon definitely has to have this too!

thanks once again for being such a good sport about finding a new name, @naftaliharris!

Of course. :-)

@ncoghlan, I have a small patch for a minor traceback bug in 2.7 I wanted to contribute upstream. http://bugs.python.org/issue29107 Any advice on getting a review? Just ping the watchers again?

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