Abuse in irc channel from part of moderator, for say him no need to be aggresive. #7746
8 participants
i re joined and looks like he dont care respect for the users and konobi said: they have final words, so where is the respect for the community?
http://imgur.com/a/Sj2ao
You already emailed report @ nodejs, please do not also create an issue.
I will investigate.
Thanks you Jeremiah, nothing to much to investigate its all in the screenshots.
Please read though http://nodeirc.info/ -- the "official" rules for that channel are listed there.
Specifically, the IRC channels follow http://blog.izs.me/post/30036893703/policy-on-trolling -- I know that's not particularly clear, and a proper policy has been on my (and others') agenda for quite some time: nodejs/inclusivity#138
#Node.js is not currently managed by "us" directly.
The rules for the channels are listed in their topics.
@ljharb was perhaps not polite, but if you decide to argue publicly (or even privately) with one of the OP's (Operators, +o) that is not our problem.
Please move this to the email thread if you have more comments. If you'd like to "appeal", you should DM ljharb on freenode irc.
For the record, while the TSC does not have control over the #Node.js IRC channel, I see absolutely nothing in the screenshots that would justify a ban beyond a large degree of ego from ljharb. This kind of behavior on the part of an IRC moderator reflects poorly on Node.js in general.
Given that the TSC does not have or exercise moderation control over that IRC channel I recommend making a clear statement in the project README.md and website that we (the TSC) neither endorse or control that channel nor do we have any oversight over the actions of its moderator's.
When possible for me to do so I will open a PR with the proposed language.
@jasnell If you'd like to PM me on freenode I'll be happy to explain what warranted the kick to your satisfaction.
The ban was because complaining about kicks and/or bans in the channel is explicitly disallowed, and always results in a ban - there's no ego involved there, merely enforcing the rules of the channel.
@ljharb ... is that policy documented? Unless I've missed it, there does not appear to be any mention of it here: http://nodeirc.info/
@jasnell http://blog.izs.me/post/30036893703/policy-on-trolling number 9. I have always understood http://nodeirc.info to be an unrelated attempt to document things, and has never (as far as I'm aware) had any ops involved - that said, the trolling policy is third under "important links".
Firt of all apologies for my lack english, I spoke with the moderator and he unbanned me , he explained me the rules of his channel and i tried to be clear i dont understand the rules, becouse quoting that trolling policy is ok, if someone is banned should or want to claim about some issue should be in pm that is my "faul", but what about the others rules about respect and manners for the users? what about hpw they are with the other people? i am about 23 years on programming world and is the first time i saw a moderation like that, my post right now here is not with the intention of find guilty, just show if some people take and represent an open source project and specially this amazing node project should be proud and feel honor to support it that kind of moderation is not showind that, and if node have on this official pages this channel they cant take the position of blind eyes or try this issue in "PM" . People needs respect we are trying to make a better world and rememeber we are not machines we are dealing with persons here. Right now i am unbanned but the true i dont feel i want to join that channel any more, i am trying to find another places for get information. I do not judge to the moderator we have all bad days, i just want the node community take more consideration in the future who is representing his project , that wil care the community. This is the way we can grow and do better things.
Thanks you very much @jasnell for your reply.
@jasnell Is the current channel ownership not in violation of Freenode policies? Specifically:
Channels on freenode fall into one of two categories. Primary channels, which begin with a single # character, are reserved for on-topic projects. If you’d like to take over one of these channels, then you’ll need to be associated in some way with the project in question.
[...]
Primary channels do not expire with inactivity, though they can be claimed at any time by a representative of an on-topic project with the appropriate name.
@joepie91 isaac currently owns it, and is certainly associated with node "in some way".
@ljharb What is Isaac's association with Node, exactly? He does not appear to have a contributor tag in this repository, and I'm not aware of him having anything to do with Node besides NPM (which is a separate company and project) and other 'usual involvements' like using the platform and being involved in conferences and so on.
From reading the Freenode policies, the intention appears to be to always have an accountable project representative as channel owner, and I'm struggling to see how Isaac (currently) fits that profile. It's also doesn't seem to satisfy the Freenode policies in spirit - after all, the TSC explicitly states that the IRC channel is an unofficial community resource, which appears to be precisely what primary channels are not meant to be used for.
Until reading this thread, I was actually under the impression that the channel was overseen and sanctioned by the Node Foundation and/or core developers, hence not having brought this up before.
(Should a new policy issue be opened for this?)
He does not appear to have a contributor tag in this repository
He is listed under https://github.com/nodejs/node#collaborators.
and I'm not aware of him having anything to do with Node
Maybe take a look at https://github.com/nodejs/node/graphs/contributors :)
Sure, but is he still a contributor/representative in an active capacity?
I assure you that freenode requires an active REPRESENTATIVE of the project, not someone who contributed and hasn't for over a year. Someone who can speak on behalf of the project as an official.
if the project is somehow formally organized, it should be an official representative
Directly from freenode staff member.
Freenode specifies that you can take over a channel that has an official title but is not officially administered, but does not specify who it needs to be admin'd by at any specific time. e.g.
Channels on freenode fall into one of two categories. Primary channels, which begin with a single # character, are reserved for on-topic projects. If you’d like to take over one of these channels, then you’ll need to be associated in some way with the project in question.
Okay, so I've just cleared this up with a Freenode staff member as well (because I wasn't entirely clear myself on what the intended policy was), and they've stated the following, quoted with permission:
[18:47] <emerson> yea, in that case, if the TSC wants to take ownership of the channel, they should be able to. If they don't, then it should be either moved to ##node.js or at least marked in the topic as unofficial, ideally
EDIT: GitHub ate the nickname. Fixed.
I'm pretty sure this is not the correct issue for this discussion =).
Perhaps we need a separate one about the #Node.js channel ownership and policies, if there isn't one already?
this is the way we want to grow this community?
http://imgur.com/a/rBuds
Banned for say to a moderator , no need to be aggressive?
What about the code of conduct?
https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md