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Mobile app #23

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LukeDefeo opened this issue Dec 27, 2018 · 91 comments
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@LukeDefeo
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@LukeDefeo LukeDefeo commented Dec 27, 2018

A pretty huge thing but a mobile app where you could at first view notes on the go would be awesome

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Dec 27, 2018

You can already view (and edit!) your notes if you put the data directory inside Dropbox or something similar.

A mobile app is definitely something that should be implemented, I'm not sure if via React native or something else though.

@mschmid

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@mschmid mschmid commented Dec 30, 2018

I started using Notable and migrating my notes from Evernote. I love the idea of the open data storage format!
I currently use a free markdown editor for iOS on the iPhone, but the features Notable provides would be perfect on the go, e.g. linking between notes and searching.
I would love to see a mobile app!
Regarding #135, maybe you could charge for the iOS app?

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Dec 30, 2018

Regarding #135, maybe you could charge for the iOS app?

That's definitely an option, thanks for suggesting it.

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@winkbrace winkbrace commented Jan 1, 2019

For me this is the reason to not migrate to Notable yet, because I take half my notes on my phone. I'd pay up to $5 for the iOS app. But not more honoustly.

@MauroCoppola

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@MauroCoppola MauroCoppola commented Jan 2, 2019

Hi, I'd like to help with the Android app! Were you considering building native apps separately or using some crossplatform framework (React Native, Xamarin, Flutter etc)?

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Jan 2, 2019

@MauroCoppola thanks for volunteering! A mobile app would also require some sort of server where notes will be stored, I've touched a bit about this here #135, IMHO in order for the project to be sustainable and high-quality it must be profitable, so I would rather write the mobile/web apps myself and try to monetize them somehow.

I haven't given the framework choice too much thought, but I guess React Native could probably be a good option as the app is already written in React. Also I have no intention whatsoever to write different apps in different languages (Xamarin -> C#? Flutter -> Dart?)

@LukeDefeo

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@LukeDefeo LukeDefeo commented Jan 3, 2019

I don't see why you would need anything server wide. All sync can be handled by Dropbox or Google drive we just need to integrate with that on the phone

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Jan 3, 2019

@LukeDefeo if you constrain yourself to use Dropbox etc. I think some features I have in mind may be more difficult or even impossible to implement, ideally we'd want to have control over the storage.

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@matejdro matejdro commented Jan 3, 2019

I would also vote for raw file sync. Whole point of this app is that everything is stored as raw markdown files, without any proprietary server sitting in between.

I'm not sure how would that work for iOS though (Android has normal file system)

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Jan 3, 2019

@matejdro IMHO having no server in between is not exactly one of the point, it's way more important to me that notes aren't locked into any proprietary formats and are just plain markdown files, this won't change, anything you can do today you will be able to do in the future.

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@LukeDefeo LukeDefeo commented Jan 3, 2019

@fabiospampinato I'm not familiar with the API of these tools. Which features will not work. Can you not just keep a local copy of a diredtory tree synced local to remote?

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Jan 3, 2019

@LukeDefeo sure, you can kind of do this today if you want, either via Dropbox, Git or something else.

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@laughedelic laughedelic commented Jan 4, 2019

FYI Simplenote has a sync API that you could probably reuse: https://simperium.com/overview

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@ryuheechul ryuheechul commented Jan 5, 2019

Meanwhile hoping for the mobile version of Notable in the future, I just found a mobile app that works for my use case. It's pretext and I save my Notable notes on iCloud Drive so it seems to be working decent so far.

And I just found another one, MWeb, too.

After I used them both for a few minutes, I've gotten to know the two apps better.

  1. I noticed that pretext doesn't watch changes of the files edited from other devices so it has potential to lose your editing if you open a markdown file (for editing) on pretext and edit somewhere else and close the file on pretext (it immediately tries to upload the content from the editing screen which is not up-to-date at this point since pretext doesn't watch changes and update it to its editing screen.

With my testing, I was able to create the case that I lose the editing from my mac.

  1. MWeb thankfully watches changes from iCloud Drive (with several seconds delay). So it has less potential to lose your editing from other devices.

The behaviors of the two apps are from my observation at this point of writing, so it might behave differently in the future. And I'm not related to any of those apps nor intend to promote/judge any of them. I'm simply informing what I found to you guys hoping nobody loses their editing since I introduced them here in the issue.

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@ymjonline ymjonline commented Jan 10, 2019

I can only concur. A mobile app (at least Android to start with) is a must-have.

I've been trying countless Markdown-based apps, and Notable is so close to replacing Evernote and the likes:
Plain MD with tag management ! and ability to open up another editor for complex notes (e.g. Typora) - This is truly excellent ! Thank you.

But ability to quickly capture a note/thought/todo add or view notes from a mobile is essential (in particular with ability to add a picture easily or even better a scribble)
It can then be edited "at home" if necessary.

When it comes to sync, any Dropbox/Nextcloud-like would do.

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@Candbot Candbot commented Jan 31, 2019

If you're making one in React Native, count me in too. Really would like to support the future of open-source apps with polished UI and functionality.

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@sammdu sammdu commented Jan 31, 2019

I recommend integrating with another Android Notes app that is also open-source: Scarlet ( https://github.com/BijoySingh/Scarlet-Notes )
They have a good interface and I use it as my primary note-taking app.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Jan 31, 2019

@sammdu I don't think integrating with Scarlet would be a good idea, as Scarlet's UI reminds me more of Google Keep than a mobile app I myself I'd like to use.

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@MelBourbon MelBourbon commented Feb 10, 2019

Until then, is there any markdown app available for Android which somehow supports the tags and notebook structure of noteable. Meaning easy filtering by notebook or tag? Because I'm fine for now to use a markdown app to edit my with nextcloud synced files but it's hard to find notes only by the file name or through search.

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@janbiasi janbiasi commented Feb 11, 2019

Wouldn't it be a good idea to decouple the app a little bit more (based on the current architecture) and create a react native app? I guess this solution could be realized with acceptable effort ...

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Feb 11, 2019

@janbiasi maybe in the future, right now I don't have the development power to do that.

@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato added this to the Future milestone Feb 22, 2019
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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 14, 2019

(Dropbox can't sync files containing an emoji for some reason)

That doesn't seem to happen with the Dropbox desktop client.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 14, 2019

@TCB13 Are you on macOS? Maybe it depends on the OS you're on.

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@redsolver redsolver commented Oct 18, 2019

The unofficial mobile app is now open source.

https://github.com/redsolver/notable-mobile

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@warwickchapman warwickchapman commented Oct 20, 2019

If you meant it more like "why not make the mobile app work with Dropbox"

Yup, that's what I meant. Surely services like Dropbox have a stable API that can be used?

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 20, 2019

If you meant it more like "why not make the mobile app work with Dropbox"

Yup, that's what I meant. Surely services like Dropbox have a stable API that can be used?

As I said:

If you meant it more like "why not make the mobile app work with Dropbox" or something the answer is that I can't implement what I want to on top of third-party clouds, they may not really work well enough (Dropbox can't sync files containing an emoji for some reason) and I gotta sell something to make this sustainable.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

@TCB13 Are you on macOS? Maybe it depends on the OS you're on.

Both on Windows and macOS I can't reproduce that emoji issue. That shouln't even happen, its just a file that Dropbox syncs around with UTF8 data inside. Can someone confirm?

Speaking about clouds: now Apple has decided to have all the nice stuff around Files, maybe, you don't even have to implement support for each cloud, just ask the system for the user to pick a location where to store the files. Have a look at Microsoft Word for iOS, it allows you to directly link your Dropbox account by using Dropbox APIs AND also to view your iPhone Files that will show Dropbox in the locations panel.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

@TCB13 I don't know what the issue is but I'm not making stuff up, this is what I'm seeing:

Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 16 27 16

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

@TCB13 I don't know what the issue is but I'm not making stuff up, this is what I'm seeing:

Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 16 27 16

Oh! You previously said "Dropbox can't sync files containing an emoji for some reason" and I was under the impression that the emojies were inside the file, not on the filename.

Anyway, I don't see it as a big deal not having emojies in file names, lets be frank it's one of those features that most users might not even consider, who wants to name their files with emoji? Does Windows support that?

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

Anyway, I don't see it as a big deal not having emojies in file names, lets be frank it's one of those features that most users might not even consider, who wants to name their files with emojies? Does Windows support that?

Dunno, but did you know about this Dropbox limitation? I can't make and sell a service build of top of this uncertainty/unreliability, I need to have the power to make the changes necessary to implement what I want. Plus as I said I need to sell something to make the app sustainable, and it might not be possible to implement everything I want to on top of other people's clouds, and telling people "great, now to have synchronization working just install Dropbox and pay for the amount of storage you need" is a non-starter.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

Dunno, but did you know about this Dropbox limitation?

No, because I never tried to add an emoji to a file name - that won't even probably sync with anything non-apple so it's pointless to have that feature.

@fabiospampinato I get your point about the product, however I believe this product isn't for the general public. You App is successful right now because it taps into a market niche of people (like me and you) that don't like vendor lock-ins and want privacy. If you ditch the 3rs party clouds and force people to use your service there won't be much difference between Notable and OneNote/Evernote/Others.

I would gladly give up emoji in note names and still have Notable using markdown and saving everything to a folder that I can sync with syncthing / dropbox / google drive. I believe this is kind of expected of an App that uses a filesystem to store data.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

@fabiospampinato if you want to sell to the general public and you don't want to lose the "no vendor lock-in niche" you might consider adding your cloud but also provide an option to use the filesystem / apple APIs in iOS. This would make the general public happy however you must be careful not to force people into your service by lacking major features if only the filesystem sync is enabled (like Apple does with Notes over IMAP email accounts).

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

I would gladly give up emoji in note names and still have Notable using markdown and saving everything to a folder that I can sync with syncthing / dropbox / google drive.

You can do this today with the desktop app and whatever you can do today you will be able to do in the future, but I'm not going to deal with Dropbox's cloud or similar for the built-in synchronization feature, if that's a deal breaker for you I don't want to give you false hopes, this might not be the app for you.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

I'm not going to deal with Dropbox's cloud or similar for the built-in synchronization feature

What about just dealing with the iOS APIs? And then the use choses whatever cloud it wants or even the local iPhone filesystem? That would make your life easier and as I said you can still add your own build in cloud, as long as there's an alternative option like this.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

... or just add a WebDav option like Joplin does.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

@TCB13 I'm not sure what you mean, if I store notes in iOS filesystem how do I have them synchronized in a Linux laptop per instance? I don't see this as being any different than building on top of Dropbox's infrastructure, actually it is probably worse as at least there is a Dropbox client for Linux.

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@warwickchapman warwickchapman commented Oct 28, 2019

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

@TCB13 I'm not sure what you mean, if I store notes in iOS filesystem how do I have them synchronized in a Linux laptop per instance? I don't see this as being any different than building on top of Dropbox's infrastructure, actually it is probably worse as at least there is a Dropbox client for Linux.

If you build on top of Apple's new APIs then the user can pick a folder where to put the notes, that can be Dropbox, OneDrive or any other iOS app that also implements their FileProvider extension.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

... or just add a WebDav option like Joplin does.

I don't think I made myself clear enough, please read again my reasons for this decision:

I can't make and sell a service build of top of this uncertainty/unreliability, I need to have the power to make the changes necessary to implement what I want. Plus as I said I need to sell something to make the app sustainable, and it might not be possible to implement everything I want to on top of other people's clouds, and telling people "great, now to have synchronization working just install Dropbox and pay for the amount of storage you need" is a non-starter.

I'm going to implement an opt-in managed synchronization solution, while still mirroring files in the filesystem on desktop and while still allowing for files to be edited with third party tools easily.

The official mobile app will only support the managed synchronization solution.

If that's not ok with you you are free to use a third-party Markdown editor on mobile and manage the synchronization yourself or switch to another app that better suits your needs.

I believe the Joplin model is largely unsustainable, and as I want to make Notable sustainable I won't adopt it, it's my choice to make.

If you build on top of Apple's new APIs then the user can pick a folder where to put the notes, that can be Dropbox, OneDrive or any other iOS app that also implements their FileProvider extension.

I don't see how this answers my question about synchronizing with a Linux laptop in the slightest. We are back at building on top of third-party clouds aren't we.

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@EugenMayer EugenMayer commented Oct 28, 2019

@fabiospampinato i mentioned by concerns about your plan earlier - won't repeat it. I just repeat that i understand that you want to be able to monetize the app for getting something in return - i really understand and support this.

You might predict a change in your potential audience in the future, when the build in, all in one convenient solutions hit's the market and totally new users get attracted by it - i might differ on this, but well, predictions are predictions.

But i would like to add one note here, the audience you might have right now might react more "allergic" into building "virtual, non existent boundaries" to force people into something you want them to use - which will be a commercial product hosting our sensible data.

That said, under Android, using your official app, i can save on a local folder on the filesystem. I might use any other service to sync this folder ( whatever i like to do ) - but if you build specific boundaries to even force me out of this ( even though you would not have any effort of integrating with anything - you just save files locally, that it is ) i would also, speaking for myself, have a somewhat "allergic reaction". This is a virtual, self made restriction to sell your own service by force.

Usually you are better in selling your service by the simple argument: It's better. It provides more then others, or in a more convenient / build in / non technical facion / official SLAs and all this. Add USPs to your commercial service so people chose it over other alternatives ...

rather then creating manual "pseudo" limitations as a selling argument. It might harm the reputation in the long run.

This is clearly an IMHO, i cannot speak for anybody else - i could "just imagine there are more of my type - probably"

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@patrickf3139 patrickf3139 commented Oct 28, 2019

Hi Fabio,
I've admired your sharp and insightful product management. I thought your previous decisions have been very good: managing the notes as individual files plainly on the filesystem with no special format, delegating editing to our favorite text editor, building on top of Electron for cross-platform compatibility. Please hear me out on this. I used to do some product management and still do a little here and there professionally. I want the best for Notable. But mostly, I want the best for YOU. Fabio, if you want this app to be sustainable, then I really believe your best decision would be to build on top of Dropbox.

You have already done the brilliant investment of building it on top of Electron for cross-platform compatibility. That's amazing! You have built up a user base from Mac, Windows, AND Linux! Using Dropbox would build on top of that cross-platform momentum and get you easily more paid users. Why limit the pool of users who want to pay to only the people who use Mac AND iPhone when you
could target 100% of your users right now?

I can't make and sell a service build of top of this uncertainty/unreliability.

As a software engineer myself, I understand that it's really important to use 3rd party vendors that you can trust and have rock-solid APIs. I would like to say that my opinion, having observed both Apple and Dropbox for years now and knowing engineers at both company, that Dropbox actually has slightly better engineering talent than Apple. Not only that, but synchronization is the main product for Dropbox while Apple has its engineering interests spread across many many products and iCloud is a very small one. My judgment is actually that Dropbox is more reliable and certain that iCloud. Apple could stop maintaining iCloud support and still maintain 95% of their revenue. For Dropbox their synchronization is their lifeblood.

did you know about this Dropbox limitation? ... I need to have the power to make the changes necessary to implement what I want.

It seems you are concerned that the Dropbox API has other undocumented limitations in their API besides emoji support and you are worried those restrictions will kill your ability to build the features you want with Dropbox. I agree that iCloud probably is more powerful for syncing between Macs and iPhone. But, doesn't it make sense that Dropbox only probably imposed the limitations such as no emoji support because it wanted to go cross-platform and could only support the features that all three platforms can support. If you decide to go cross-platform (which again, I think you should for a bigger target audience for paid users), then you'd be grateful for Dropbox's limitations as you wouldn't be able to support their features either. So rather than thinking of Dropbox's limitations as barriers to your development of a Notable app, think of them as natural boundaries you'd hit anyway if you went cross platform.

Finally, this is a smaller point, but if you target only Macs and iPhone users, you'd be fighting for the same user base as Quiver (https://happenapps.com/), which also only supports Mac and iPhone. And that'd be a difficult fight because Quiver, though less powerful, is only $10 for lifetime and so would win against Notable on a price-basis. Not to mention Quiver has a slight leg up being written in native Swift (or Objective C can't remember) and so would probably be less buggy and more energy-efficient on Mac.

Please re-consider. I know it's a hard decision to make a U-turn but make the change while it's not too late! I write this because I selfishly want Dropbox support (it doesn't even affect me right now--I am actually a Mac and iPhone user), but because I think you deserve to make a good living out of Notable having done the hard work and charity of releasing this beautiful desktop app.

Sincerely,
A grateful Notable user Patrick

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

I don't see how this answers my question about synchronizing with a Linux laptop in the slightest. We are back at building on top of third-party clouds aren't we.

iOS client stores notes via Apple's FileProvider etc into Dropbox (like MS word is able to do). Linux desktop user installs Dropbox and points notable to the folder inside Dropbox. Sync is done.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 28, 2019

Thanks for your comments, I'm reading a few misconceptions here so let me clear them out first and then state again, hopefully more clearly, what I'm building.

But i would like to add one note here, the audience you might have right now might react more "allergic" into building "virtual, non existent boundaries" to force people into something you want them to use - which will be a commercial product hosting our sensible data.

I understand this, but the built-in synchronization will effectively be opt-in, nobody will be forced to use the official mobile app.

You have to understand that the two options in this scenario were:

  1. Notable becomes abandoned as its creator obviously can't work on it for free forever and he doesn't see a way to make the project sustainable.

  2. Notable's creator thinks he sees a path to sustainability and pursuits it.

This is me pursuing the second option, the alternative is not making the mobile app more open, is making no mobile app at all.

If anybody thinks he/she sees a better option I'll just friendly remember you that you can fork Notable v1.5 and pursuit it yourself.

That said, under Android, using your official app, i can save on a local folder on the filesystem.

There's no official Android app so I don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe you're referring to @redsolver's app?

I might use any other service to sync this folder ( whatever i like to do ) - but if you build specific boundaries to even force me out of this

Today you can sync your data directory from desktop however you like and edit your notes with whatever app you like, that's not going to change.

I'll give you a practical example:

  1. Future Notable for desktop will store notes in a database and mirror them in the filesystem, nothing will practically change as far as the user is concerned.

  2. You edit a note in the filesystem? Notable for desktop detects it and updates its internal database accordingly.

  3. That same database will be used for synchronization with the official mobile app, and for other potential future features like collaborative editing and note sharing.

  4. You want to synchronize your data directory on desktop using Git too? You can.

  5. You want the official mobile app to read notes from the filesystem or from another database? You can't.

This is a virtual, self made restriction to sell your own service by force.

I see it this way: the mobile app and some future server-side stuff are an additional product, I'd want to sell a subscription to access them to make the project sustainable and profitable, if I don't sell anything Notable will just die, I'm not sure if that's clear.

You don't want to use them? That's cool, that's not more "forcing" a service than an ice-cream man "forcing" you to pay him some money if you want some extra cream on top of your ice-cream cone.

The more interesting argument here is: is this limitation of the official mobile app necessary to make the project sustainable and profitable? I'm not sure, right now I tend to think so, because if you offer a way to get something for free people will just do that.

Usually you are better in selling your service by the simple argument: It's better.

Actually this is basically my strategy I've been telling to people, I want to make an awesome note-taking app, the best one, I don't think disallowing the official mobile app from accessing notes from other sources gets really in the way of that, it mostly just disallow people to freeload everything, which as I said, you are totally free to do within the boundaries of the free offering, but offering everything for free just means Notable doesn't become sustainable and dies, which I don't want.

Why limit the pool of users who want to pay to only the people who use Mac AND iPhone when you could target 100% of your users right now?

Right, that'd be stupid to do. I don't know why you think I want to do that.

that Dropbox actually has slightly better engineering talent than Apple.

I don't really care about that, the crucial point is that if something needs changing in Dropbox, say there's a bug or some API I'd need to build a particular future, I can't do shit about it.

I don't want to put myself in that situation, so I want to have control of the cloud too.

then you'd be grateful for Dropbox's limitations as you wouldn't be able to support their features either

I'm already sanitizing filenames for cross-platform compatibility, Dropbox's limitation is just that, Dropbox's limitation, which doesn't do the one thing it's designed to do: sync the files.

But this isn't the crucial point to understand, the crucial point I've expressed above.

For Dropbox their synchronization is their lifeblood.

Still why aren't my notes synched? And btw companies come and go, if Dropbox goes bankrupt somehow that'd be bad news for everybody building on top of it too. I don't think this is a likely scenario, and this isn't the main reason for not building on top of Dropbox, but I'd rather not put myself in that hypothetical situation.

Finally, this is a smaller point, but if you target only Macs and iPhone users

Again, I've never said I wanted to do that. I want to make the best note-taking experience, especially for power users, does that mean excluding Android or Windows users? Of course not.

iOS client stores notes via Apple's FileProvider etc into Dropbox (like MS word is able to do). Linux desktop user installs Dropbox and points notable to the folder inside Dropbox. Sync is done.

See above for why I don't want to build on third-party clouds.


I'll write a post on the subreddit, and post a link to it here, stating exactly what my goals for this project are, what I want to build etc. so that we can be all at the same page and avoid misunderstandings.

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@patrickf3139 patrickf3139 commented Oct 28, 2019

@fabiospampinato Ahh I seem to be confused by something. Can you explain how you aren't restricting the mobile app to only Mac + iPhone users by going iCloud? I didn't know iCloud could work on other platforms.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

if Dropbox goes bankrupt somehow that'd be bad news for everybody building on top of it too.

One more reason to implement using Apple's APIs - if dropbox dies users can move and use any other cloud service on their phones that implements FileProvider. I've said this multiple times, really seems like you want to force people into buying your service. That would be fine, except for the fact that notable will be just like any another App out there full of proprietary stuff.

You're also forgeting the privacy argument, I might trust Dropbox or iCloud but I might not trust your Cloud service.

You want to synchronize your data directory on desktop using Git too? You can.

Yeah you might be saying that now, but what about the future? Some random excuse not to mirror stuff to the filesystem might popup at some point and then its over.

@fabiospampinato Ahh I seem to be confused by something. Can you explain how you aren't restricting the mobile app to only Mac + iPhone users by going iCloud? I didn't know iCloud could work on other platforms.

He doesn't want to go iCloud, he wants to go with his own cloud service. It's even worse than that. He could just implement the FileProvider and have it sync with ANY cloud that the uses chooses.

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@patrickf3139 patrickf3139 commented Oct 28, 2019

Thanks for the clarification @TCB13 .

I see, well in that case I am slightly disappointed because

  1. it will take Fabio a lot more work to do it so we will have to wait potentially years before it comes out.
  2. I wouldn't trust the sync as much as Dropbox or iCloud which have been battle tested, but at least we can already make backups quite easily and double-check the sync using git diff.
  3. fixing bugs with it will be much slower compared to Dropbox or iCloud as well

Can't say I support it but I can sympathize with his reasoning now.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 28, 2019

2. I wouldn't trust the sync as much as Dropbox or iCloud which have been battle tested, but at least we can already make backups quite easily and double-check the sync using git diff.

Yeah, but are you aware that in the latest iOS versions Apps can just add themselfs to the Files app and other apps can access their files and vice versa? This means he doesn't really need to implement iCloud or Dropbox specifically, its just about the FileProvider API that will allow the app to sync to whatever service the user has.

As I said before, one of my issues with a cloud built by @fabiospampinato is pricacy. Of course I trust him to build good services that doesn't share user's data with 3rd parties, however I would rather use some private sync service like syncthing or nextcloud.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Oct 29, 2019

Can you explain how you aren't restricting the mobile app to only Mac + iPhone users by going iCloud?

@patrickf3139 How did you reach to the conclusion that I want to use iCloud at all? I'm genuinely asking trying to understand what I might have said that could have mislead you into thinking this.

One more reason to implement using Apple's APIs - if dropbox dies users can move and use any other cloud service on their phones that implements FileProvider.

Listen I don't know how to say this more clearly, I think I've explained pretty comprehensively and clearly why I don't want to do this already, I can't repeat the same things ad infinitum.

You're also forgeting the privacy argument, I might trust Dropbox or iCloud but I might not trust your Cloud service.

I'm not sure why you think I haven't thought about privacy at all, but that's not the case.

Yeah you might be saying that now, but what about the future? Some random excuse not to mirror stuff to the filesystem might popup at some point and then its over.

I don't know what you want me to tell you, I see no reason whatsoever for ever dropping mirroring files to the filesystem, I'm stating this publicly and in the open, if it happens fell free to publicly shame me till the end of days or something.

it will take Fabio a lot more work to do it so we will have to wait potentially years before it comes out.

What years, I'm not trying to rewrite AWS here, I'll probably just end up using CouchDB/PouchDB. If there won't be a mobile app working during the first half of next year I'd be shocked.

I wouldn't trust the sync as much as Dropbox or iCloud which have been battle tested

I'd argue CouchDB is pretty battle-tested 🤷‍♂.

Just a few posts above you can see how Dropbox's sync fails miserably at times, is it impossible to compete with that? I don't think so.

Also just recently the battle-tested iCloud messed up royally duplicating, if not even deleting at times, users' files.

I don't want to sound arrogant but if that's the state of the art today it might not be too difficult to compete with that or there I say it perhaps even do better.

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@TCB13 TCB13 commented Oct 29, 2019

@fabiospampinato Lets face it, when Microsoft Word doesn't sync properly with Dropbox I don't point fingers at Microsoft. If iCloud duplicates files, just because of random bugs, I won't point fingers at all the developers that made the apps I use. Cloud sync services sometimes fail but that has nothing to do with app.

Your cloud service, might be good, might be bad, however the fact that it exists goes against the no vendor lock-in principle of this project. The money aspect might be a reason to develop your own solution, however you should still allow people to sync via Apple's APIs to iCloud, Dropbox or whatever cloud service that has a FileProvider extension.

As I stated before, I would be happy to pay 5/10$ for a mobile version of notable capable of using Apple's APIs to sync to whatever cloud I would like to use, or at least iCloud and Dropbox.

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@richard2000 richard2000 commented Nov 16, 2019

Today I read an article in my favorite computer magazin ct and tried your desktop app.
It's very nice and intuitiv.

Maybe there is no need for a special mobil version, because there's already a very similary app for android: Epsilon Notes
This App is compatible with notable.
I do my syncing with FolderSync and my own Nextcloud-Server. So I'm my own boss for my notes. ;-)

Yes, it's a little work, but it's worth it and I don't need to trust any online cloud providers.

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@fabiospampinato fabiospampinato commented Nov 16, 2019

@richard2000 Thanks. Yeah actually you can already work around the lack of an official mobile app, and I think it's great that Notable enables you to manage the notes however you want. But in order to make this whole endeavor sustainable it has to sell something, and some features can't really be implemented without controlling the entire stack (I'm thinking about things like collaborative editing) (maybe it's actually possible to implement them in a totally decentralized fashion, but that's not the path I'm taking).

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