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no information about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the cell border is different from the adjacent cells. #3044

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nvaccessAuto opened this Issue Mar 4, 2013 · 19 comments

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nvaccessAuto commented Mar 4, 2013

Reported by sumandogra on 2013-03-04 11:34
Excel 2010

NVDA does not announce the information regarding the border of a cell in any way. In fact on pressing NVDA +F, it incorrectly announces the text as underlined in case the border of a cell is different from the adjacent cells.
Steps to reproduce:

  1. Go to a cell that has a different cell border than the default one.
  2. No information is given by NVDA about its different cell border.
  3. Press NVDA+F.
  4. NVDA announces it as underline. This is an incorrect announcement and can lead to confusion at times to the users.
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nvaccessAuto Mar 4, 2013

Comment 1 by jteh on 2013-03-04 11:52
These are two separate issues. Let's cover the border issue in this ticket and file a separate one for the underline issue.

nvaccessAuto commented Mar 4, 2013

Comment 1 by jteh on 2013-03-04 11:52
These are two separate issues. Let's cover the border issue in this ticket and file a separate one for the underline issue.

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nvaccessAuto Jan 7, 2015

Comment 2 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-07 07:01
Once the information regarding cell-border is gathered, how do we want to present this information ? Do we want to append this information to that presented when NVDA + F is pressed? The information presented in this case is already verbose and appending another set of information will further increase the level of verbosity.
Another approach is to have some mechanism like a Dialog Box, from where a user can turn on/off this feature as per his/her need. But even in this case we need to figure out when and where we need to present the cell-border information.

nvaccessAuto commented Jan 7, 2015

Comment 2 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-07 07:01
Once the information regarding cell-border is gathered, how do we want to present this information ? Do we want to append this information to that presented when NVDA + F is pressed? The information presented in this case is already verbose and appending another set of information will further increase the level of verbosity.
Another approach is to have some mechanism like a Dialog Box, from where a user can turn on/off this feature as per his/her need. But even in this case we need to figure out when and where we need to present the cell-border information.

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nvaccessAuto Jan 7, 2015

Comment 4 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-07 07:37
Changes:
Changed title from "no ifnormation about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the cell border is different from the adjacent cells." to "no information about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the cell border is different from the adjacent cells."

nvaccessAuto commented Jan 7, 2015

Comment 4 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-07 07:37
Changes:
Changed title from "no ifnormation about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the cell border is different from the adjacent cells." to "no information about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the cell border is different from the adjacent cells."

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nvaccessAuto Jan 15, 2015

Comment 5 by sumandogra on 2015-01-15 11:13
This is a necessary change for the purpose of data analysis in Excel. Where one may need to analyze the data of the cells that have different cell borders.

The following scenarios may be considered for implementing:
Scenario 1 for INSERT+F:
the complete cell border information may be given on pressing INSERT+F along with the other relevant info about a font in a cell. but this information of cell border may be given with this command only if there is a change in the cell border from the default one.
This point that information about the cell border is given on pressing INSERT+F only when that there is change in cell border from the default one has to be mentioned in the user manual. This helps the users understand the functioning of the command and this will prevent the announcement when it is not required and hence saves the time.
Another ticket may be filed for this point to include this information In the user manual for Excel.

Scenario 2 on navigating the cells:
In this case if one enters a cell that has its borders different from the default one either with ARROWS or TAB, the information about the cell border should be announced. But on entering another cell adjacent to this cell that has same border as the previous cell the information may not be repeated.
But on leaving a region with the cells having a different cell border from the default one the user should be indicated that the default cell border is present again.

Condition attached to the scenario 2:
As many users may not need to listen to the information about the cell border changes, a condition may be given where a user can select or de select to hear to change in the cell border . Else the information will be too much for ;those who need not listen to the change in the borders.

nvaccessAuto commented Jan 15, 2015

Comment 5 by sumandogra on 2015-01-15 11:13
This is a necessary change for the purpose of data analysis in Excel. Where one may need to analyze the data of the cells that have different cell borders.

The following scenarios may be considered for implementing:
Scenario 1 for INSERT+F:
the complete cell border information may be given on pressing INSERT+F along with the other relevant info about a font in a cell. but this information of cell border may be given with this command only if there is a change in the cell border from the default one.
This point that information about the cell border is given on pressing INSERT+F only when that there is change in cell border from the default one has to be mentioned in the user manual. This helps the users understand the functioning of the command and this will prevent the announcement when it is not required and hence saves the time.
Another ticket may be filed for this point to include this information In the user manual for Excel.

Scenario 2 on navigating the cells:
In this case if one enters a cell that has its borders different from the default one either with ARROWS or TAB, the information about the cell border should be announced. But on entering another cell adjacent to this cell that has same border as the previous cell the information may not be repeated.
But on leaving a region with the cells having a different cell border from the default one the user should be indicated that the default cell border is present again.

Condition attached to the scenario 2:
As many users may not need to listen to the information about the cell border changes, a condition may be given where a user can select or de select to hear to change in the cell border . Else the information will be too much for ;those who need not listen to the change in the borders.

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nvaccessAuto Jan 23, 2015

Comment 6 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-23 13:54

As many users may not need to listen to the information about the cell border changes, a condition may be given where a user can select or unselect to hear to change in the cell border.

This condition is provided through a checkbox in Document Formatting dialog box.

nvaccessAuto commented Jan 23, 2015

Comment 6 by siddhartha_iitd on 2015-01-23 13:54

As many users may not need to listen to the information about the cell border changes, a condition may be given where a user can select or unselect to hear to change in the cell border.

This condition is provided through a checkbox in Document Formatting dialog box.

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nvaccessAuto Feb 3, 2015

Comment 7 by jteh on 2015-02-03 06:45
Filed #4878 regarding reporting of formatting when entering cells, but we should handle that separately.

nvaccessAuto commented Feb 3, 2015

Comment 7 by jteh on 2015-02-03 06:45
Filed #4878 regarding reporting of formatting when entering cells, but we should handle that separately.

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nishimotz Oct 10, 2016

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I would like to contribute regarding Excel cell border announcement, because it is frequently used in Japan.
Suggestions are welcomed on how cell borders should be announced in English.

some resources:
XlBordersIndex Enumeration
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff835915.aspx
XlLineStyle Enumeration
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx

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nishimotz commented Oct 10, 2016

I would like to contribute regarding Excel cell border announcement, because it is frequently used in Japan.
Suggestions are welcomed on how cell borders should be announced in English.

some resources:
XlBordersIndex Enumeration
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff835915.aspx
XlLineStyle Enumeration
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx

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nishimotz Oct 12, 2016

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I have worked regarding Excel cell borders at my repository:

https://github.com/nishimotz/nvda/tree/excel

Before proceeding to making pull request, I would like to hear comments.
So far, the descriptions in English are as follows.

black continuous bottom edge
B1
black continuous surrounding border
B2
B3
black continuous top edge
B4
black continuous up-right and down-right diagonal lines
B5
bright red continuous bottom edge
B6
bright red continuous surrounding border
B7
bright red continuous top edge, aqua-blue continuous bottom edge
B8
aqua-blue continuous surrounding border
B9 through C10
aqua-blue continuous top edge, black double bottom edge
B11
black double top edge
B12
black double bottom edge
B13
black double top edge, black continuous bottom edge
B14
black continuous top and bottom edges
B15
black continuous top edge
B16
black dash followed by two dots left and right edges
B17
no border lines
B18
black continuous left and right edges
B19
no border lines
B20
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nishimotz commented Oct 12, 2016

I have worked regarding Excel cell borders at my repository:

https://github.com/nishimotz/nvda/tree/excel

Before proceeding to making pull request, I would like to hear comments.
So far, the descriptions in English are as follows.

black continuous bottom edge
B1
black continuous surrounding border
B2
B3
black continuous top edge
B4
black continuous up-right and down-right diagonal lines
B5
bright red continuous bottom edge
B6
bright red continuous surrounding border
B7
bright red continuous top edge, aqua-blue continuous bottom edge
B8
aqua-blue continuous surrounding border
B9 through C10
aqua-blue continuous top edge, black double bottom edge
B11
black double top edge
B12
black double bottom edge
B13
black double top edge, black continuous bottom edge
B14
black continuous top and bottom edges
B15
black continuous top edge
B16
black dash followed by two dots left and right edges
B17
no border lines
B18
black continuous left and right edges
B19
no border lines
B20
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nishimotz Oct 12, 2016

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The example document (borders.xlsx) mentioned above is:
https://docs.com/nishimotz/8981/borders

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nishimotz commented Oct 12, 2016

The example document (borders.xlsx) mentioned above is:
https://docs.com/nishimotz/8981/borders

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jcsteh Oct 13, 2016

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@Qchristensen, thoughts?

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jcsteh commented Oct 13, 2016

@Qchristensen, thoughts?

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Qchristensen Oct 13, 2016

I agree with the comments, having cell border information read much as @nishimotz suggests, for both NVDA+f and also having a document formatting option to read changed border information for announce formatting changes after the cursor, would be consistent with other formatting information read.

The first thing I thought when reading this ticket was, how is this done with text or table borders in Word, as it should present as consistent to the user. It isn't currently available in Word, so it may be worth considering whether this can be implemented in both at the same time.

Reporting borders in Word is already filed specifically in issue #2010.

Qchristensen commented Oct 13, 2016

I agree with the comments, having cell border information read much as @nishimotz suggests, for both NVDA+f and also having a document formatting option to read changed border information for announce formatting changes after the cursor, would be consistent with other formatting information read.

The first thing I thought when reading this ticket was, how is this done with text or table borders in Word, as it should present as consistent to the user. It isn't currently available in Word, so it may be worth considering whether this can be implemented in both at the same time.

Reporting borders in Word is already filed specifically in issue #2010.

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Qchristensen Oct 13, 2016

With your descriptions @nishimotz, did you get those from Excel anywhere? Looking in the borders page in the format cells dialog, (control+1, then b), the different types of borders are identified there. The descriptions are slightly different to yours (for instance B16 would be "Dash, dot, dot" rather than "dash followed by two dots". Also the continuous lines would be "thick", "medium" or "thin" rather than "continuous").

I just wanted to check in case you are getting your descriptions from somewhere else in Excel perhaps?

Looking for where else they might be reference, I noticed that in the border line style from the ribbon (press alt+h then b then y), you get a list of the styles which looks the same as in the format cells dialog, however NVDA reads each these simply as "list item" (Narrator simply identifies the place in the list).

Qchristensen commented Oct 13, 2016

With your descriptions @nishimotz, did you get those from Excel anywhere? Looking in the borders page in the format cells dialog, (control+1, then b), the different types of borders are identified there. The descriptions are slightly different to yours (for instance B16 would be "Dash, dot, dot" rather than "dash followed by two dots". Also the continuous lines would be "thick", "medium" or "thin" rather than "continuous").

I just wanted to check in case you are getting your descriptions from somewhere else in Excel perhaps?

Looking for where else they might be reference, I noticed that in the border line style from the ribbon (press alt+h then b then y), you get a list of the styles which looks the same as in the format cells dialog, however NVDA reads each these simply as "list item" (Narrator simply identifies the place in the list).

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nishimotz Oct 13, 2016

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The descriptions of my tentative work come from MSDN as follows:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx
Actually it should be consistent with format cells dialog of Excel itself.

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nishimotz commented Oct 13, 2016

The descriptions of my tentative work come from MSDN as follows:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx
Actually it should be consistent with format cells dialog of Excel itself.

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Qchristensen Oct 13, 2016

Ah thank you. I wondered whether there was more than one place that
specified how the border style was described...

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On 13 October 2016 at 17:08, Takuya Nishimoto notifications@github.com
wrote:

The descriptions of my tentative work come from MSDN as follows:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx
Actually it should be consistent with format cells dialog of Excel itself.


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Qchristensen commented Oct 13, 2016

Ah thank you. I wondered whether there was more than one place that
specified how the border style was described...

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On 13 October 2016 at 17:08, Takuya Nishimoto notifications@github.com
wrote:

The descriptions of my tentative work come from MSDN as follows:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff821622.aspx
Actually it should be consistent with format cells dialog of Excel itself.


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nishimotz Oct 13, 2016

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XlBorderWeight Enumeration should be handled as well:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff197515.aspx

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nishimotz commented Oct 13, 2016

XlBorderWeight Enumeration should be handled as well:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff197515.aspx

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Qchristensen Oct 13, 2016

Yes, the border style information in the format cells dialog gives some
information about each of those - it doesn't say continuous for instance,
but it does give the thickness as you just posted.

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On 13 October 2016 at 18:07, Takuya Nishimoto notifications@github.com
wrote:

XlBorderWeight Enumeration should be handled as well:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff197515.aspx


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Qchristensen commented Oct 13, 2016

Yes, the border style information in the format cells dialog gives some
information about each of those - it doesn't say continuous for instance,
but it does give the thickness as you just posted.

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On 13 October 2016 at 18:07, Takuya Nishimoto notifications@github.com
wrote:

XlBorderWeight Enumeration should be handled as well:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ff197515.aspx


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nishimotz Oct 13, 2016

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  • Should I work regarding braille output as well?
  • Should I add documentFormatting.reportBorderStyle config parameter and setting dialog option as well?
  • So far, NVDAObjects/window/excel.py has inconsistency regarding line ending characters, so I am hesitating to work with. May I clean up the file regarding line ending before working for the issue?

updated my branch which describes as follows:

Sheet2 of https://docs.com/nishimotz/8981/borders

no border lines
None  B2

black hair surrounding border
Hair  B4

black dotted surrounding border
Dotted  B6

black dash dot dot surrounding border
DashDotDot  B8

black dash dot surrounding border
DashDot  B10

black dashed surrounding border
Dashed  B12

black thin surrounding border
Thin  B14

black medium dash dot dot surrounding border
MediumDashDotDot  D2

black slanted dash dot surrounding border
SlantedDashDot  D4

black medium dash dot surrounding border
MediumDashDot  D6

black medium dashed surrounding border
MediumDashed  D8

black medium surrounding border
Medium  D10

black thick surrounding border
Thick  D12

black double surrounding border
Double  D14
Contributor

nishimotz commented Oct 13, 2016

  • Should I work regarding braille output as well?
  • Should I add documentFormatting.reportBorderStyle config parameter and setting dialog option as well?
  • So far, NVDAObjects/window/excel.py has inconsistency regarding line ending characters, so I am hesitating to work with. May I clean up the file regarding line ending before working for the issue?

updated my branch which describes as follows:

Sheet2 of https://docs.com/nishimotz/8981/borders

no border lines
None  B2

black hair surrounding border
Hair  B4

black dotted surrounding border
Dotted  B6

black dash dot dot surrounding border
DashDotDot  B8

black dash dot surrounding border
DashDot  B10

black dashed surrounding border
Dashed  B12

black thin surrounding border
Thin  B14

black medium dash dot dot surrounding border
MediumDashDotDot  D2

black slanted dash dot surrounding border
SlantedDashDot  D4

black medium dash dot surrounding border
MediumDashDot  D6

black medium dashed surrounding border
MediumDashed  D8

black medium surrounding border
Medium  D10

black thick surrounding border
Thick  D12

black double surrounding border
Double  D14
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nishimotz Oct 16, 2016

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Now I am feeling cell border colors are sometimes too verbose.

Regarding setting dialog options, I first thought documentFormatting.reportColor should be respected regarding cell border description.

However, reportColor is now moved into the Font group of format settings, so I need another flag regarding border colors, if we need less verbose mode for cell borders.

For example, Table group should have 'border style' and 'border color' check-boxes, and the border color option should be disabled when 'border style' is unchecked.
Or should we use a combo-box for this?

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nishimotz commented Oct 16, 2016

Now I am feeling cell border colors are sometimes too verbose.

Regarding setting dialog options, I first thought documentFormatting.reportColor should be respected regarding cell border description.

However, reportColor is now moved into the Font group of format settings, so I need another flag regarding border colors, if we need less verbose mode for cell borders.

For example, Table group should have 'border style' and 'border color' check-boxes, and the border color option should be disabled when 'border style' is unchecked.
Or should we use a combo-box for this?

nishimotz added a commit to nishimotz/nvda that referenced this issue Oct 21, 2016

nishimotz added a commit to nishimotz/nvda that referenced this issue Jan 19, 2017

Information about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the …
…cell border is different from the adjacent cells. NVDA+F should work on Excel as well. nvaccess#3044 PR nvaccess#6492

nishimotz added a commit to nishimotz/nvda that referenced this issue Jan 19, 2017

Information about the cell border is given in an Excel sheet, if the …
…cell border is different from the adjacent cells. NVDA+F should work on Excel as well. Now merged master and resolved confict regarding configSpec. nvaccess#3044 PR nvaccess#6492

feerrenrut added a commit that referenced this issue Feb 20, 2017

incubates #6889
Fixes #6889 and #3044
Merge branch 'i6889-fixExcelMergedCellRegression' into next

feerrenrut added a commit that referenced this issue Feb 20, 2017

incubates #6895
Fixes #6889 and #3044
Merge branch 'i6889-fixExcelMergedCellRegression' into next

@nvaccessAuto nvaccessAuto added this to the 2017.2 milestone Mar 14, 2017

feerrenrut added a commit that referenced this issue Mar 14, 2017

Update changes file for several PRs
For PR #6761 - Web page menu items (menu item checkbox's and radio buttons) can now be activated while in browse mode.  Issue #6735
For PR #6866 - Excel sheet name reporting is now translated. Issue #6848
For PR #6884 - Pressing ESC while the configuration profile "Confirm Deletion" prompt is active now dismisses the dialog. Issue #6851
For PR #6895 - Cell border information can now be reported in Microsoft Excel by using `NVDA+f`. Issue #3044
For PR #6860 - Added support for aria-current attributes. Issue #6358
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leonardder Mar 28, 2017

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I belief the defaults for this are too verbose. I think both reporting of styles and colors should be initially off. Style and color information should only be reported whenever requested specifically, either by pressing nvda+f or enabling the particular options in the document formatting dialog.

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leonardder commented Mar 28, 2017

I belief the defaults for this are too verbose. I think both reporting of styles and colors should be initially off. Style and color information should only be reported whenever requested specifically, either by pressing nvda+f or enabling the particular options in the document formatting dialog.

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