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In Braille, landmark indications should be abbreviated #3975

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nvaccessAuto opened this Issue Mar 12, 2014 · 12 comments

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nvaccessAuto commented Mar 12, 2014

Reported by msuch on 2014-03-12 13:25
In web pages, information like "navigation landmark", "main landmark" etc should be shortened in braille like we do for link etc.
Landmark could be something like "lmk", something like navigation landmark could be "nv lmk" etc.

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nvaccessAuto Mar 18, 2015

Comment 1 by dkager on 2015-03-18 20:13
I'd rather see "lmk nav", "lmk main" and so on. This way you can quickly verify that you're dealing with a landmark, then read on to find out its type if you care about that information, or else whiz right past it to the page's main text.
Either way I agree that shortening is a very good idea.

nvaccessAuto commented Mar 18, 2015

Comment 1 by dkager on 2015-03-18 20:13
I'd rather see "lmk nav", "lmk main" and so on. This way you can quickly verify that you're dealing with a landmark, then read on to find out its type if you care about that information, or else whiz right past it to the page's main text.
Either way I agree that shortening is a very good idea.

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dkager Jul 9, 2016

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This still looks relevant. A summary of my thoughts:

  • Shorten the word landmark to something like lmk (taken from SuperNova).
  • Shorten landmark names, preferably all to the same length. @leonardder also had some good ideas for that.
  • Swap the word landmark and the name, e.g. "landmark main", because the word landmark is the more signifcant part.
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dkager commented Jul 9, 2016

This still looks relevant. A summary of my thoughts:

  • Shorten the word landmark to something like lmk (taken from SuperNova).
  • Shorten landmark names, preferably all to the same length. @leonardder also had some good ideas for that.
  • Swap the word landmark and the name, e.g. "landmark main", because the word landmark is the more signifcant part.
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derekriemer Jul 9, 2016

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This is a bold idea, feel free to shoot it down. But what about putting the word main and just put dots seven and eight below it all the way across?

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Please disregard errors as this is a smaller device.

On Jul 9, 2016, at 05:06, Davy Kager notifications@github.com wrote:

This still looks relevant. A summary of my thoughts:

Shorten the word landmark to something like lmk (taken from SuperNova).
Shorten landmark names, preferably all to the same length. @leonardder also had some good ideas for that.
Swap the word landmark and the name, e.g. "landmark main", because the word landmark is the more signifcant part.

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derekriemer commented Jul 9, 2016

This is a bold idea, feel free to shoot it down. But what about putting the word main and just put dots seven and eight below it all the way across?

Sent from a mobile device.
Please disregard errors as this is a smaller device.

On Jul 9, 2016, at 05:06, Davy Kager notifications@github.com wrote:

This still looks relevant. A summary of my thoughts:

Shorten the word landmark to something like lmk (taken from SuperNova).
Shorten landmark names, preferably all to the same length. @leonardder also had some good ideas for that.
Swap the word landmark and the name, e.g. "landmark main", because the word landmark is the more signifcant part.

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Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

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dkager Jul 10, 2016

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But what about putting the word main and just put dots seven and eight below it all the way across?

This would be a little confusing because that is also the selection indicator, and the word main could be the start of the line (e.g. "main menu").

An alternative to explore is to use indicators for all element types or even for all widgets, but that's a different discussion.

My current preference is "lm main". But most other widget names are three letters long (edt, btn, lst, cbo), so maybe we should use a three-letter abbreviation for the word landmark? On the other hand users with a smaller braille display will appreciate the brevity of "lm". The same goes for the landmark names: "mn" is nice and short but "main" is a bit easier to understand. Thoughts?

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dkager commented Jul 10, 2016

But what about putting the word main and just put dots seven and eight below it all the way across?

This would be a little confusing because that is also the selection indicator, and the word main could be the start of the line (e.g. "main menu").

An alternative to explore is to use indicators for all element types or even for all widgets, but that's a different discussion.

My current preference is "lm main". But most other widget names are three letters long (edt, btn, lst, cbo), so maybe we should use a three-letter abbreviation for the word landmark? On the other hand users with a smaller braille display will appreciate the brevity of "lm". The same goes for the landmark names: "mn" is nice and short but "main" is a bit easier to understand. Thoughts?

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leonardder Jul 11, 2016

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I think that LMK would be ok for consistency reasons.
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leonardder commented Jul 11, 2016

I think that LMK would be ok for consistency reasons.
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dkager Jan 22, 2017

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I want to pick this issue up again so have been reading about the ideas we had.

One more bold question: is the word landmark (or lmk, or whatever) even required? Would it not be enough to see just "main", "nav", etc? Or could this be confused with the webpage's actual text?

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dkager commented Jan 22, 2017

I want to pick this issue up again so have been reading about the ideas we had.

One more bold question: is the word landmark (or lmk, or whatever) even required? Would it not be enough to see just "main", "nav", etc? Or could this be confused with the webpage's actual text?

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derekriemer Jan 23, 2017

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derekriemer commented Jan 23, 2017

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dkager Jan 23, 2017

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We might have labeled regions, I.E. "Fried items Region"

Could you give a real-world example or some HTML to reproduce this? If I read the code correctly this would include the word "region", so it's still unambiguous.
I'm keeping the (abbreviated) word "landmark" in for now, but would still like an example of named regions to make sure I get them right.

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dkager commented Jan 23, 2017

We might have labeled regions, I.E. "Fried items Region"

Could you give a real-world example or some HTML to reproduce this? If I read the code correctly this would include the word "region", so it's still unambiguous.
I'm keeping the (abbreviated) word "landmark" in for now, but would still like an example of named regions to make sure I get them right.

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dkager Jan 25, 2017

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I came up with the following abbreviated landmark names. Please feel free to shoot them down:

landmarkLabels = {
	"banner": "bnnr",
	"complementary": "comp",
	"contentinfo": "cinf",
	"main": "main",
	"navigation": "nav",
	"search": "srch",
	"form": "frm",
	"region": "rgn",
}
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dkager commented Jan 25, 2017

I came up with the following abbreviated landmark names. Please feel free to shoot them down:

landmarkLabels = {
	"banner": "bnnr",
	"complementary": "comp",
	"contentinfo": "cinf",
	"main": "main",
	"navigation": "nav",
	"search": "srch",
	"form": "frm",
	"region": "rgn",
}

dkager added a commit to dkager/nvda that referenced this issue Jan 26, 2017

Change the order of the landmark name and the word landmark as displa…
…yed in braille. Third part of nvaccess#3975.

Rationale: the word landmark is the more significant part. That is, the word landmark indicates that we are dealing with a landmark while the landmark name describes the specific type.

@nvaccessAuto nvaccessAuto added this to the 2017.3 milestone May 30, 2017

feerrenrut added a commit that referenced this issue May 30, 2017

Update changes file for several PRs
- PR #7169 : Editable div elements in Chrome are no longer have their label reported as their value while in browse mode. (Issue #7153)
- PR #6396 : An unbound gesture (script_restart) has been added to allow NVDA to be restarted quickly. (PR #6396)
- PR #6777 : A Braille setting has been added to "show messages indefinitely". (Issue #6669)
- PR #7133 : Pressing end while in browse mode of an empty Microsoft Word document no longer causes a runtime error. (Issue #7009)
- PR #6868 : The keyboard layout can now be set from the NVDA Welcome dialog. (Issue #6863)
- PR #6813 : The names of "landmarks" are abbreviated in Braille (Issue #3975)
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MichelSuch Jun 5, 2017

Minor problem with "main" and "form" landmarks.
They should have separate translatable strings for braille and speech.
In english, they don't need to be abbreviated in braille since they have 4 characters.
It is different in other languages, so, like other landmarks names, they should have a separate translation for braille and speech.

MichelSuch commented Jun 5, 2017

Minor problem with "main" and "form" landmarks.
They should have separate translatable strings for braille and speech.
In english, they don't need to be abbreviated in braille since they have 4 characters.
It is different in other languages, so, like other landmarks names, they should have a separate translation for braille and speech.

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dkager Jun 5, 2017

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These should be translatable already. In braille.py:

	# Translators: Displayed in braille for the main landmark, normally found on web pages.
	"main": _("main"),

I suppose this goes wrong because it has the same name in braille as in speech. Is this a use case for pgettext with a context?

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dkager commented Jun 5, 2017

These should be translatable already. In braille.py:

	# Translators: Displayed in braille for the main landmark, normally found on web pages.
	"main": _("main"),

I suppose this goes wrong because it has the same name in braille as in speech. Is this a use case for pgettext with a context?

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