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win10-14986 nvda next latest build, audio ducking not working #6684

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beqabeqa473 opened this Issue Dec 28, 2016 · 12 comments

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beqabeqa473 commented Dec 28, 2016

hello.

please test if you also are experiencng this problem, i have only one device for this time and cannot test on other.

audioducking is not working for me.

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derekriemer Dec 28, 2016

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derekriemer commented Dec 28, 2016

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beqabeqa473 Dec 28, 2016

there is no error.

so, always duck and duck when outputting speech and sounds behaviour is the same.

beqabeqa473 commented Dec 28, 2016

there is no error.

so, always duck and duck when outputting speech and sounds behaviour is the same.

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derekriemer Dec 28, 2016

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derekriemer commented Dec 28, 2016

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josephsl Dec 28, 2016

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Hi,

Partly confirmed: "always duck" option is broken.

STR:

  1. In Windows 10 Insider Preview build 14986, open a media player or point your browser to a page that has multimedia content (such as YouTube).
  2. While a file is playing, press NVDA+Shift+D to switch between audio ducking options.
  3. For each option, use a command you know will cause a long text to be spoken (e.g. NVDA+T for title).

Expected: audio ducking settings are respected.
Actual: if audio ducking is set to "always duck", media volume is restored once NVDA finishes speaking.

@michaelDCurran, anything we can do besides sending a feedback?

Thanks.

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josephsl commented Dec 28, 2016

Hi,

Partly confirmed: "always duck" option is broken.

STR:

  1. In Windows 10 Insider Preview build 14986, open a media player or point your browser to a page that has multimedia content (such as YouTube).
  2. While a file is playing, press NVDA+Shift+D to switch between audio ducking options.
  3. For each option, use a command you know will cause a long text to be spoken (e.g. NVDA+T for title).

Expected: audio ducking settings are respected.
Actual: if audio ducking is set to "always duck", media volume is restored once NVDA finishes speaking.

@michaelDCurran, anything we can do besides sending a feedback?

Thanks.

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jcsteh Jan 2, 2017

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This was due to a change made by Microsoft. Prior to 14986, ducking in Windows was static; i.e. you turned it on and it stayed on until you turned it off. NVDA does the dynamic (speech and sounds) ducking itself by turning static ducking on and off as needed. In 14986, Microsoft changed Windows ducking to be dynamic; i.e. it does speech and sounds ducking itself. This means that "always duck" is no longer possible. We also feel that Microsoft's implementation of speech and sounds ducking does not fit for NVDA. Thus, we're trying to convince Microsoft to give us separate options for static and dynamic ducking in a future build.

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jcsteh commented Jan 2, 2017

This was due to a change made by Microsoft. Prior to 14986, ducking in Windows was static; i.e. you turned it on and it stayed on until you turned it off. NVDA does the dynamic (speech and sounds) ducking itself by turning static ducking on and off as needed. In 14986, Microsoft changed Windows ducking to be dynamic; i.e. it does speech and sounds ducking itself. This means that "always duck" is no longer possible. We also feel that Microsoft's implementation of speech and sounds ducking does not fit for NVDA. Thus, we're trying to convince Microsoft to give us separate options for static and dynamic ducking in a future build.

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jcsteh Jan 2, 2017

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Setting this to p2 for now, since we need to push Microsoft to fix this ASAP, but this should possibly even be p1, since it has significant user impact.

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jcsteh commented Jan 2, 2017

Setting this to p2 for now, since we need to push Microsoft to fix this ASAP, but this should possibly even be p1, since it has significant user impact.

@jcsteh jcsteh added p1 and removed p2 labels Jan 4, 2017

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jcsteh Jan 4, 2017

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Pushing to p1 as per discussion with Mick.

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jcsteh commented Jan 4, 2017

Pushing to p1 as per discussion with Mick.

michaelDCurran added a commit that referenced this issue Jan 25, 2017

Fall back to Microsoft's own dynamic ducking, and disable our 'always…
… ducking' mode, for Windows builds 14986 and up.

As this is hopefully temporary, the quickfix solution is to force  usage of our own 'always duck' mode, which  allows microsoft to dynamic duck how ever it likes.

Fixes #6684
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Sadly we were not able to convince Microsoft to reverse their mistake of reusing the same flag for dynamic ducking, thus we will temporarily work around it.
We hope that Microsoft strongly considers rectifying this situation after the Creators Update, either by adding a new flag (thus allowing an AT to manage ducking manually) or by enhancing their own dynamic ducking code to bring it inline with what NVDA already had.

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michaelDCurran commented Jan 25, 2017

Sadly we were not able to convince Microsoft to reverse their mistake of reusing the same flag for dynamic ducking, thus we will temporarily work around it.
We hope that Microsoft strongly considers rectifying this situation after the Creators Update, either by adding a new flag (thus allowing an AT to manage ducking manually) or by enhancing their own dynamic ducking code to bring it inline with what NVDA already had.

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jcsteh commented Jan 25, 2017

michaelDCurran added a commit that referenced this issue Jan 26, 2017

An alternative implementation of audio ducking for Windows build 1498…
…6 and up: Play silence while we expect to be ducked.

Fixes #6684

@nvaccessAuto nvaccessAuto added this to the 2017.1 milestone Feb 8, 2017

michaelDCurran added a commit that referenced this issue Feb 8, 2017

Fall back to Microsoft's own dynamic ducking, and disable our 'always…
… ducking' mode, for Windows builds 14986 and up. (#6799)

As this is hopefully temporary, the quickfix solution is to force  usage of our own 'always duck' mode, which  allows microsoft to dynamic duck how ever it likes.

Fixes #6684
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fergregoire94 Feb 15, 2017

I think perhaps this could be worked around by making NVDA to expose to the system as a communication program making a VoIP call when “Always duck” is enabled.
In Sound Windows Control Panel applet there's a Communications tab to configure what to do when using some Internet telephony programs like Skype. There you can choose between reducing volume of other sounds 50%, 80%, mute other sounds completely or do nothing. I don't know if this could conflict with communication programs when actually making or receiving a call; but when the user is not in a call, this would allow to bring back the “Always ducking” mode in newer Windows 10 builds and with the additional flexibility of choosing between lower volume or everything muted, as well as making this functionality available on Windows 7.

fergregoire94 commented Feb 15, 2017

I think perhaps this could be worked around by making NVDA to expose to the system as a communication program making a VoIP call when “Always duck” is enabled.
In Sound Windows Control Panel applet there's a Communications tab to configure what to do when using some Internet telephony programs like Skype. There you can choose between reducing volume of other sounds 50%, 80%, mute other sounds completely or do nothing. I don't know if this could conflict with communication programs when actually making or receiving a call; but when the user is not in a call, this would allow to bring back the “Always ducking” mode in newer Windows 10 builds and with the additional flexibility of choosing between lower volume or everything muted, as well as making this functionality available on Windows 7.

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josephsl Mar 6, 2017

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Hi,

Reopening this as we have an update: in build 15048, when audio ducking is set to "duck when outputting speech", audio will duck regardless of speech is in progress. This was tested on two computers - one with Winamp running, the otherwith movies and TV running, and both exhibit the same.

Thanks.

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josephsl commented Mar 6, 2017

Hi,

Reopening this as we have an update: in build 15048, when audio ducking is set to "duck when outputting speech", audio will duck regardless of speech is in progress. This was tested on two computers - one with Winamp running, the otherwith movies and TV running, and both exhibit the same.

Thanks.

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josephsl Mar 6, 2017

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Hi,

Further discussion will take place in #6933. Thanks.

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josephsl commented Mar 6, 2017

Hi,

Further discussion will take place in #6933. Thanks.

@josephsl josephsl closed this Mar 6, 2017

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