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Revenue Generation Ideas for Core Team #3683

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LukeTowers opened this Issue Aug 9, 2018 · 49 comments

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@LukeTowers
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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

This is to discuss revenue generation ideas for the core development team (@LukeTowers, @daftspunk , @alekseybobkov) in order to keep the project going strong.

Each idea should be a separate comment and should be voted / shown support for with emoji reactions. Ideas and discussion appreciated. NOTE: Please only show support for ideas that you would pay money for / signup for.

Current Revenue Streams:

Marketplace Gratuity: 30% of Marketplace sales goes to maintaining the marketplace
Partner Program: Paid promotional slots for businesses that deal with OctoberCMS
Luke's Patreon: Patreon account to support the OctoberCMS Community Manager, Luke Towers
One time & Recurring donations: One time & recurring donations made on the OctoberCMS website
Feature Sponsoring & Bountysource: One-off improvements to the platform and plugins that are funded by the community. See https://www.bountysource.com/teams/rainlab.

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

Private Plugin & Theme support in Marketplace:

Add support for managing private plugins and themes through the marketplace for a fee. The fee would be recurring and could be per repo (theme / plugin) or tiered levels or a one-size-fits all approach.

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

OctoberCMS Managed Hosting:

Managed hosting provided by the OctoberCMS experts; who better to manage your hosting experience than the professionals that build October in the first place?

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

Subscription/Recurring licenses for Marketplace Products:

Recurring license options for Marketplace Authors to provide ongoing support and improvements for their products. Think one time initial cost, plus discounted recurring fee for new updates and ongoing support.

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

Professional Support Contracts:

Pay for your company to have a support contract with the developers that build October for priority support and guidance.

@lunfel

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lunfel commented Aug 9, 2018

Feature bounty:

Community members that really wants a certain feature, pay together until we get to a certain money threshold. That way, you could prioritise the most wanted and best revenue feature for octobercms for you guys.

One feature I would more than willing to pay for is having more flexibility with many-to-many relations with pivot information in backend form.

(note from Luke): See BountySource above

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

@lunfel we already accept feature bounties. Feel free to create an issue for your desired enhancement and then create a bounty on BountySource under the https://www.bountysource.com/teams/rainlab team for the issue you created. 👍

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lunfel commented Aug 9, 2018

@LukeTowers Didn't know that! Maybe it should be put more in sight? I don't know, I may have been living under a rock all this time.

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

@lunfel any suggestions for how we can improve the visibility of that?

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LukeTowers commented Aug 9, 2018

OctoberCMS Swag

Offer OctoberCMS swag (tshirts, mugs, stickers, etc.) for sale online

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robballantyne commented Aug 9, 2018

Agency Recruitment Campaign

I don't want to be negative but it seems to me that there simply aren't enough October users that want to spend money so the partner programme and market place gratuity seem like the only viable options for squeezing money out of a project like this. Rather than looking for additional revenue streams I'd be spending more time on growing these.

There are a lot of agencies about who have clients with huge budgets and who would not hesitate to pay for a ready to go plugin to save on development time.

I'd suggest that those of us who are here focus on creating premium plugins that replicate functionally found in other products. The core team need to organise a non spammy way to start a conversation with some of these bigger agencies and find out what they need to be done to help them transition away from what they are doing now and on to October.

Naturally, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes but you have an excellent product that just needs selling a bit more.

@edhardie

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edhardie commented Aug 10, 2018

Improved Partner Program

In my own circumstance, the only way I can see ourselves as an agency making a meaningful contribution is via a regular monthly payment of something like $50 - $100. I know this currently possible, but it's tricky convincing other members of management to commit to that sort of spend without anything in return. We've looked closely at becoming a partner, but the lump sum spend has been the roadblock.

My suggestion is therefore an improvement to the partner program, with the option to pay monthly. Extra benefits like extended functionality (included premium plugins maybe) or possibly even something like credits towards @lunfel's bounty idea I believe would also go a long way towards helping convince others in a similar position to us to get their hands in their pockets.

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alvaro-canepa commented Aug 10, 2018

Marketplace Packages

Adding a new section in Marketplace to offer packages of plugins/themes, something like public Projects.
At now, plugins has dependency, but Authors can offer their plugins in a package with discount or maybe for free packages, just to help end users, to have a complete (one install) suite of eCommerce, Real Estate, Website, Blog, Forum, or whatever...
It would be great if plugins in package can be pre-configured (if is needed).

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Alex360hd commented Aug 23, 2018

I work in an agency, and we would be really happy to pay a recurring fee in order to be able to setup some private plugins and themes on october websites (synced with the project feature). As an agency, I would prefer to pay a forfait for an unlimited number of private plugins and themes.

If pond is a good tool, we would also pay in order to use it. But it seems to become a chimera.

We would also pay for an extended licence for a good visual page builder (like the one you teased before abandon it).

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LukeTowers commented Aug 23, 2018

@Alex360hd @ErrantQuill @onurguven what's the reason for the thumbs down on managed hosting and recurring licenses?

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Alex360hd commented Aug 23, 2018

For me, as an agency, we already have our own servers so I completely don't care about managed hosting. I would prefer you put some efforts in things that directly concern our everyday job (I think about media manager revamp, private plugins and theme, etc...) that would change our everyday life.

For reccuring licence it was a mistake (even if it's low in the list of things I would like to see for october, it could be a nice addition).

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LukeTowers commented Aug 23, 2018

@Alex360hd is the media manager revamp something that your company would be interested in sponsoring?

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Alex360hd commented Aug 23, 2018

It's hard actually cause sponsoring, opensource etc... are not in the DNA of my boss actually (try to change that). That's why I push for ideas that would convince my boss to give you some money cause you deserve it and it would bring to us an immediate and real gain. (media manager would too but it's not like subscribing to a service).

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LukeTowers commented Aug 23, 2018

@Alex360hd try pitching the media manager improvements as hiring an external consultant / freelancer to build a tool that would be available for all of your OctoberCMS projects ;)

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ErrantQuill commented Aug 24, 2018

@LukeTowers Because often, updates to a plugin can include security updates or compatibility fixes with various composer package updates. It seems unfair to charge someone again just to keep their site functional and secure. A system to only charge for feature updates or something of the sort would then mean having to maintain LTS versions and whatnot. Seems like a hassle for everyone involved.

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LukeTowers commented Aug 24, 2018

@ErrantQuill the current marketplace model is everything is provided in "as-is" condition. The idea behind the recurring licenses would be something like GravityForms model where you pay a yearly fee to continue getting updates and support. If anything it makes it better for the user because then the author actually has a reason to keep their plugin up to date and working well.

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ErrantQuill commented Aug 25, 2018

@LukeTowers That's a fair point, actually. I've a bit of a jaded opinion since clients in my country fight tooth and nail over pennies.
To be honest, I have not actually used any plugin besides the Users and Location plugins; the very reason I took up October is the ease of extensibility using plugins so I tend to just make whatever is needed. October makes things pretty easy anyway, and any client who has enough of a time crunch to warrant buying ready-made plugins better be ready to pony up. Just please keep the RainLab essentials free :D

Having said that, a subscription model isn't exactly ideal for projects that require multiple plugins. I just went over the catalogue and found quite a few plugins offering pretty basic functionality and charging like $40 for it. I suggest at least setting stringent criteria for SaaS type plugins. For instance, the Shopaholic suite is just really pricey to get just the basic features any competent eCommerce site ought to have, whereas JKShop seems to offer it all for just $50. I'd be okay with JKShop being a SaaS plugin, not Shopaholic. No offense, but I honestly think the marketplace needs more stringent standards than what seem to be implemented, currently.

EDIT: Holy damn there are some serious messes on the marketplace. The WebSockets one is probably the messiest implementation of WebSockets I have come across. Again, I really don't want to be a douche but I don't know what else to say about it. Good thing it's free eh :D

EDIT 2: What I'm really afraid of, I guess, is October going down the same rabbit hole of overpriced, underdeveloped plugins that PrestaShop did. Currently, some of the best plugins on your marketplace are free. The SEO Manager one looks like it's good, and certainly offers some very useful features for $5. And then there's the Giveaway plugin that costs $40. There needs to at least be some standardisation of pricing. I realise that it's a difficult task, but there needs to be stringent quality control for any SaaS marketplace.

@daftspunk daftspunk moved this from To be reviewed to Website / Marketplace Improvements in daftspunk's TODOs Aug 30, 2018

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ayumihamsaki commented Aug 30, 2018

Job / Freelance Marketplace

Personally I would like it if you had a market place where I could pay other developers to do some work, as we are swamped by all the work we got! (due to us trying to go the extra mile for all our clients). But yah a Marketplace where we can rate and review and pay for jobs etc. I'm all up for!

@LukeTowers @daftspunk I'm all for you guys making money from this project. I just want to add a comment saying please dont make October CMS end up like Pyro CMS. I was with them for many years and the owner was very rude and made all the plugins over priced when he upgraded the CMS to V3. So I decided to move across to October CMS and I really love the CMS and the People and Team behind it.

Also I would not even have a problem if you added Google adverts to October website etc. (Just dont add Crypto miming software pls).

Lastly, a big Thank you to all the help you given me over the years! May October become bigger than rubbish Wordpress in the near future!

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petehalverson commented Aug 30, 2018

October CMS Conference

Start a conference. Sell tickets and sponsorships.

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GrCOTE7 commented Sep 7, 2018

//w20k: Very good idea, I think... Lots of 'us' (noobies) would appreciate a such feature...

Imagine: Juste a videos serie, as Ivan Doric done, but in a backend, each user could auto-evaluate his own comprehension of each lesson

Every time he connects, he can see exactly with the list of the lessons and the output of a note he gave (or not yet) :

  • Where he has stopped the last time he studied
  • What he must still study

Hoping you have understood what I mean, my english is so bad...

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robinbonnes commented Sep 13, 2018

We would also pay for an extended licence for a good visual page builder (like the one you teased before abandon it).

I agree on the visual page builder part. Maybe put it on Bountysource and even sell it under Rainlab in the marketplace?

For example: This Wordpress page builder plugin https://codecanyon.net/item/visual-composer-page-builder-for-wordpress/242431 has over 300.000 sales * 46 dollars ...

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Thejuse commented Oct 9, 2018

Marketplace bundles

It would be a cool idea that you can make bundles for everyone with plugins/Themes and you can buy it (if there are payed plugins) and you can add it if there are free Plugins.

e.g
StartPackage

  • rainlab-pages
  • rainlab-blog
  • rainlab-sitemap
  • renatio-seomanager

That can be a QuickStart Package for sites and you can install it easy and fast

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LukeTowers commented Oct 9, 2018

@Thejuse I appreciate the contribution, it's been suggested above here: #3683 (comment)

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RedMarlin commented Oct 15, 2018

I have prepared a simplified SWAT analysis, target market analysis and explanations of my reasoning here: https://redmarlin.net/storage/app/media/temp/october_revenue_streams-2.pdf

Below I will just write a short summary of the above document (it would be too much if I pasted the whole text here;)).

October Target
Freelance developers, agencies and in house developers working in bigger organizations.
October business model should be definitely b2b centered.

October weak sides that need to be addressed asap

  • Too small user base/community
  • Not enough advertising
  • Not enough advertising materials for developers: case studies, usage cases, speed comparisons/tests etc.
  • Not enough points of contact, read NO FORUM!

Advice
Adopt Revenue streams that can help build the product and further grow the community. Do not search revenue by means that are not scaling easily.

  • Crowd founding campaign. Bug Bounty are fine for b2c relations but they are to vague for business to make a decision about contributing. Make few campaigns to fix bundle of bugs or add new functionality, write more detailed documentation or do 3rd party security audit. But give exact numbers: how much you need to do those tasks, time frame for funding campaign and time frame for the work to be done.
  • Conference as proposed by @petehalverson but do it online to make it easier and cheaper to prepare
  • Tutorials as proposed by @w20k - Simply a great idea
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michalise commented Dec 14, 2018

Just do an ICO,

The people behind the project will become millionaire's and they can then hire a proper team to develop this project more quickly!

I have seen so many BS projects out there that have done an ICO and raised huge amounts of capital and their code is totally rubbish, where you could put something together in a single day! At least with October the code is good and already done!

You can also create an October Token/Coin for the Marketplace where you can get discounts on plugins and themes if you pay using that Token/Coin.

As for adverts, why spoil everyone's User Experience and have you ever heard of Ad-Blocker's as most of the web is moving towards that direction now! It's not the 90's anymore.

Seriously, who here wants to see the October Website or the CMS plastered with adverts that will slow down the loading and give you a poorer UX! That will just annoy your little user base you have already. Take Facebook, people are totally fed up with all their adverts!

If you want to raise Capital for your project either do an ICO or go talk to some venture capitalists!

"October CMS ICO - The next gen professional cms"

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frthjf commented Jan 1, 2019

Enable pay what you want for free plugins with 50% or higher marketplace gratuity

I'm the author of some free plugins. The reason I've decided to make them free is not that I don't think that they aren't worth any money but because being an admin of a NGO websites I know that not everyone can always effort plugin prices. On the other hand, there are always people who can effort good money if you nudge them to do so. Hence, I think a pay-what-you-want model with high marketplace gratuity would be a great feature. elementary OS has applied this model quite successfully I think; have a look at the website for a UI demo (type 0 dollar into the field next to Purchase).

If we give free-plugin authors the option to switch their plugin to pay-what-you-want without sacrificing the free availability it might generate more revenue for October because users to perceive these plugins as necessary 'free'. I'd be willing to give my free plugins a pay-what-you-want price and hand 100% over to October as marketplace gratuity.

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CptMeatball commented Jan 2, 2019

October CMS Paid Tutorials/Lessons from Nooby to OctoNinja

Create a tutorials/lessons for beginners and advanced Users. Really would love to have 'tips & tricks' from the core team, to know all the goodies.

Not sure what I think about this. OctoberCMS isn't a big boy yet and this might slow down user adoption in favour of more money.

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AugmentBLU commented Jan 5, 2019

If October was a bit more "in-line" with how Laravel are doing things then you may find the CMS getting better traction. More users could mean more revenue in the market place etc. Half the ideas here are missing the point and seems heavily based on selling something, it won't work. You need regular donations and funding from developers and business that use the product but if the CMS is not in-tune with what devs need, what Laravel devs expect then the user-base is going to be stagnant.

I for one am losing the love for OC, too many useful Laravel functions and packages are incompatible out the box with OC. It might be great to show that OC have their own way of doing things but it's becoming incredibly irritating developing workarounds or seeing that Laravel can do something and it's impossible without a massive amount of hacks, for it to mess up after an update. I'm sure some will say to make your own but clients and business want stuff that's already available, well supported and implemented fairly quickly.

I know it sounds very critical, I do think OC is a great CMS but it is lacking some core things that Laravel makes great use of. Bloated or not, fact is that businesses want the bells and whistles and want their devs to produce without a mass of hurdles.

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LukeTowers commented Jan 7, 2019

@AugmentBLU Do you have specific examples and are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and sponsor some of these desired features?

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AugmentBLU commented Jan 7, 2019

@luketower Specific examples include not being able to use Laravel packages such as Passport, Echo, Spark due to the completely different auth methods used or without complex changes that are not easily managed with updates. New comers are not able to use the vast majority of packages or tutorials out there due to differing methods even with a great amount of hacks.

We've discussed in the past about having OC auth looked at and yes I have offered to part-sponsor but I alone am not able to fund it - what would it take to get an idea of how much would be required in funding?

I maybe in a minority needing these features in the current OC user-base but it's possibly putting off those who are existing Laravel devs from wanting to adopt the platform as they won't be able to take full advantage of existing packages. I'm not saying that all Laravel stuff is amazing but at least it's decently coded and supported and could open up the platform for wider adoption.

What if the codebase allowed for use of reputable and well supported Laravel packages like Passport or Spark? I'm sure better quality plugins for APIs, Payment or Socket integration would be available on the marketplace rather than the badly coded stuff currently there. There's a handful of well developed plugins but there's so many that either don't work or are unsupported.

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LukeTowers commented Jan 7, 2019

@AugmentBLU So your main gripe is still with the Auth system differences :)

It would probably take me a day of research to figure out how we could integrate the Laravel auth system without breaking the current API that October exposes of roles, permissions, and the auth manager classes.

If people were willing to commit to a $1500 USD bounty to get it fully implemented (payable only on actual completion of the project of course) then I'd be willing to look into it. Besides that, it's always an option to do all of that research and implementation work yourself and then make a PR to share it with everyone else and shift the maintenance burden onto the core maintainers.

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AugmentBLU commented Jan 7, 2019

@LukeTowers It sure is. Anything Laravel seems to be so heavily dependant on its own methods that any stray from that is becoming near impossible to use.

Do you think off the top of your head that an implementation of a new Auth system would allow for straight forward integration of packages outlined above?

If so, I would put forward $500 of the required funds.

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LukeTowers commented Jan 7, 2019

@AugmentBLU it should, although it's still not going to do anything about packages that don't support LTS versions of Laravel (i.e. 5.5), and we're unlikely to change our stance on that unless people are willing to regularly pay us for the hassle of upgrading Laravel versions and all of the polyfills / testing we have to do to ensure that the core remains stable.

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AugmentBLU commented Jan 7, 2019

@LukeTowers I think most of the current packages are compatible with L5.5 (Spark, Passport, Echo at least) so it would be a decent starting point for aligning the Auth system. If a none LTS release came out and there were enough people wanting the upgrade, I'm sure those wanting it bad enough can donate - I would be one.

In your honest opinion, do you think OC would benefit from the Auth system being in-line with Laravel? I personally see it as a good thing, just wonder what you think.

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Ladylain commented Jan 9, 2019

@LukeTowers I created a new paid plugin and I found that the gratitude is still 30%, but as I am happy to develop with OctoberCMS, I would like to increase the gratitude because I think it is important to support you. You could perhaps let the authors increase the gratitude on the plugin page. What do you think of that ?

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pvullioud commented Jan 9, 2019

Improve partners onboarding

  • Add prices on https://octobercms.com/partners or on a separate page
  • Tweet announcement for new partners
  • Campaign to find new partners on the site heading
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Teranode commented Jan 16, 2019

@LukeTowers @AugmentBLU why not just look at my package tho https://github.com/Teranode/october-laravel-auth-bridge - It works for me, i can use laravel's Auth, Passport. Ive been using it for several months now with no issue.

Then when i need to extend the auth at any point i do this

    public function register()
    {
        app('auth')->extend('session.auth', function($app, $name, array $config)
        {
            $provider = $this->app['auth']->createUserProvider($config['provider']);
            $guard = new \Batotwo\User\Classes\SessionManager($name, $provider, $app['session.store']);
            return $guard;
        });

        app()->singleton('redirect', function ($app) {
            // overrides with our own extended version of Redirector to support
            // seperate url.intended session variable for frontend
            $redirector = new UserRedirector($app['url']);

            // If the session is set on the application instance, we'll inject it into
            // the redirector instance. This allows the redirect responses to allow
            // for the quite convenient "with" methods that flash to the session.
            if (isset($app['session.store'])) {
                $redirector->setSession($app['session.store']);
            }

            return $redirector;
        });

        /*
         * Apply user-based mail blocking
         */
        Event::listen('mailer.prepareSend', function($mailer, $view, $message) {
            return MailBlocker::filterMessage($view, $message);
        });

        /*
         * Compatability with RainLab.Notify
         */
        $this->bindNotificationEvents();
    }

gist of SessionManager: https://gist.github.com/Teranode/fd585fc223f705c696f242c77b444bf8 - ignore the permissions, that's front-end permissions

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Teranode commented Jan 16, 2019

The only gripe i have with october right now is that i cant force my way out of LTS 5.5 without creating a fork and using that fork.

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LucasZdv commented Jan 22, 2019

Hello, I would like you to consider adding a wallet in the marketplace of octobercms.com to be able to reinvest the money obtained from our plugins, in the purchase of other plugins or plugins advertising. This seems like a good idea to promote the internal market of october and not only withdraw the money, in this way they can also use statistics to manage more funds for the project.

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alvaro-canepa commented Jan 23, 2019

Hello, I would like you to consider adding a wallet in the marketplace of octobercms.com to be able to reinvest the money obtained from our plugins, in the purchase of other plugins or plugins advertising. This seems like a good idea to promote the internal market of october and not only withdraw the money, in this way they can also use statistics to manage more funds for the project.

Also we can offer newest, rewrited plugins by free for buyer of oldest versions.

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LucasZdv commented Jan 23, 2019

Hello, I would like you to consider adding a wallet in the marketplace of octobercms.com to be able to reinvest the money obtained from our plugins, in the purchase of other plugins or plugins advertising. This seems like a good idea to promote the internal market of october and not only withdraw the money, in this way they can also use statistics to manage more funds for the project.

Also we can offer newest, rewrited plugins by free for buyer of oldest versions.

Buyers already receive updates

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alvaro-canepa commented Jan 24, 2019

@LucasZdv sorry, I mean something like offer other plugins for free or with discount for buyers. Example, I have a plugin "X", and publish a new plugin "Y", all that buy "X" can download "Y" for free. "Y" can be a new version of "X" or an extended version.

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drmzio commented Mar 27, 2019

Ads Across October Website

Let people pay for ad placement across the entire October website (forum, blogs, marketplace, homepage, etc...) HOWEVER ads must be on or related to OctoberCMS (e.g. development/design services, plugin/theme beta testing, etc..)

No Google Ads, or other third-party advertising.

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LukeTowers commented Mar 28, 2019

@drmzio ads are already present on the marketplace pages and as a Partner. I'm not sure I'd see the value in having ads anywhere else on the site. I appreciate your input though.

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