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Create a Code of Conduct #942
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How to behave on the project should be obvious, but I'm not against this.
If I am able to draft a code of conduct this weekend, will you review and give feedback? I'm pretty swamped at the moment… Is anyone else interested in taking this on?
Will you accept a code of conduct which extends to all community venues, online and in-person, as well as in all one-on-one communications?
I will review it, and accept it as long as it extends only to things that are strictly related to the project (issues, gitter, mailing list, stackoverflow, whatever), which means interactions related to it, I'm all for inclusiveness.
It should not extend to what one has to say on their own when not talking about the project and everything related to it.
In this case @elia saying what he thinks on his Twitter is irrelevant to the project, if he starts attacking a contributor or refusing contributions because of his views, then that is not acceptable.
Among my other useless contributions to OSS: http://contributor-covenant.org/
Not that it applies here.
@meh I think perhaps that what people say on a medium where they explicitly bio themselves as a contributor will reflect on the project whether you intend it to or not.
Perhaps if opal is intended to truly be a politics-free zone it should have a principle of "don't identify as an opal committer on a medium in which you're expressing political opinions" - and once that separation is truly present, "judge people only on their conduct within the project" becomes much more clearly sensible.
Oh, @strand, @meh you might want to look at http://www.irc.perl.org/rules.html wherein the "Community Policies" section is intentionally an unpacking of "behave like a reasonable person"; a number of us went several rounds of editing to get it to the point where it wasn't perceived as intended to be a political weapon.
@vais please see http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/on-codifying-conduct/ for an explanation of why in practice it's worth having such an unpacking, and that once you detach the idea from the howling crazies who're often the proponents of the worst written such documents it's actually a really useful one.
The core trick with a Code of Conduct is enforcement. You have to have a process where if someone is found in violation they can be dealt with transparently and publicly.
This can be just as simple as a warning process that progresses to a ban from the project... or it can be more nuanced. But a CoC is nothing without enforcement.
That might seem obvious but I see a lot of places forget that.
@shadowcat-mst Awesome, it sounds like we actually might be able to have a productive discussion in this issue. Thanks for that. 👍 Hopefully all the crazy drama and political browbeating will remain confined to that other thread so we can work on solving actual problems here.
It's actually calmed down in that other thread (mostly due to the trolls either being banned or losing interest) but a CoC is a great idea and I hope this will be super productive 👍
Here's my code of conduct: just be a decent human being.
That extends to recognising that people are the result of everything that has been part of, or influenced their lives up to that point. That means some societies are lagging, and it falls on those of us ahead to help get them up to speed.
Witch hunts belong in the dark ages, they do nothing to help with (true) progress.
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That said, please understand I'm not making statements against you, your beliefs or your gender. I think you are pretty right - I just don't agree that this is the place to do that.
We are guests here. We should know better.
Well, Lisias, if it doesn't end up being an internet-wide issue, then it doesn't.
But this is FOR SURE very popular, and getting attention outside of even just Github.
So eh. It is what it is. My speech was a bit dramatic, but still, this issue does capture my attention as a programmer and transgender person. Just my 3 cents.I still feel that whatever decision ends up being made will be important on a global scale though, even if this battle isn't the "tipping point" in the "war" or whatever you'd call this.
"in STEM we go by evidence and the peer reviewed scientific method. We don't go by feelings and political correctness as the guide to what is correct."
Actually, that's not entirely true. One need not look too far into history to see horrific human rights violations committed under the auspices of "science" (Tuskagee Syphilis experiments being one example). The entire eugenics movement was based on some really bad "science" to justify the extermination of entire groups of people. Including people suffering from mental illness. In fact, it was those with learning disabilities, mental retardation, and mental illness who were the very first people targeted for state-enforced euthanasia in 1930's Germany. So we do need a balance of both "feelings" and "fact." The key word is "balance." We need to always ask questions and remember that agendas—which start out as feelings—do drive what is accepted as "fact." The most important question that too few people ask is the "grail question": Cui bono? (Latin for "who is benefiting?").
But I do get what you're saying and I agree with you. I would also like to reach out to you and let you know that I really like your posts because you are an empath. The world has too many people that are missing an empathy chip. You've added some really good things to the conversation, and I sincerely hope I am not the only person who read your posts and recognizes the value in them.
As an aside, one of my mentors is a pretty brilliant guy (who is in the functional programming community) and he suffers from mental illness too and a lot of other people are put off by him. I however, am not. I accept him the way he is. I have weighed the good, the bad, and the ugly and found his mentorship as well as his personal friendship to far outweigh any of the "bumps" and "bruises" his lack of social skills due to mental illness. Many corporate types won't work with him. But I can, I will, and I do. He has enriched my life enormously (he was the one who turned me on to F#). He is a core member of my own cash-starved LLC that is trying to bootstrap a project. I would not trade him for another Haskell mentor for all the rubies in Madagascar.
I would be honored to have you as a friend and a coding buddy as well. So feel free to reach out :) . I'm only a junior level developer and a polyglot (lack of job opportunities for me as a marginalized person not protected or defended by SWJ's kinda forces that so I can freelance my way into keeping my utilities on, food on the table, and a leaky roof over my head). My email is: jacquelinehoman7@gmail.com
@Cephel :
Let's recap
SJWs start an issue where there is none, then pretend the issue was caused by people they oppose, force a CoC which allows them to target people they don't like and justify the backlash against their terrorism is proof that the CoC was needed in the first place.
Am I the only one to notice something very very wrong with this?
No, you're not the only one who noticed that. As soon as I saw things escalate to a bloody feeding frenzy, my bullshit detection siren started going off big time. At risk of sounding shrill, I will go out on a limb and admit that the thought has crossed my mind that this may have been orchestrated with specific intent to deliberately destroy the Opal project without any consideration for the degree of harm and sabotage that would be inflicted on the entire rest of the OSS community as a result.
I have seen other OSS projects sabotaged and destroyed by SJW's. Gittip, which was a project in the Python community, is a prime example of that: and sadly, it was one if its biggest financial beneficiaries that was the chief SJW that led the attack and totally publicly smeared and trashed that project's maintainer.
So now, no one uses Gittip—which was supposed to help marginalized people who are truly poor and disadvantaged who are trying to break into IT and get a toehold onto the IT jobs ladder, who DO need economic support to be able to join the field. As a result of that brouhaha, the intended beneficiaries of that project cannot benefit from it and it was precisely supposed to be for helping us. (Thanks a lot for nothing, SWJ's!)
I really don't want to see a replay of that for the Opal community, which is part of the larger Ruby community of which I am a member. In fact, I don't want to see a replay of it anywhere in the open source community at all.
So are you all telling me that even our industry having an extreme bias towards some gender/race stereotype, are you all willing to weight the voice of who is speaking solely by a metric where the dominant stereotype has clear advantage by the very reason we have the bias (please note how much 'code' we've read so far, almost no other form of contribution is even mentioned)?
Don't you acknowledge the lack of diversity of our industry or you just don't care?
"Our Industry".
Who's industry?
I don't view the ability to create amazing things with programming code to be exclusive to anyone.
I can program, you can program, anyone who wants to learn to program can learn to program.
Computers do not judge your race or gender or religion. It will either work or it won't, according to the laws of physics that the processor relies on and the laws of logic that the language is built with.The OTHER people involved? The social aspect?
It's not my place to tell them how to live or act, nor is it yours.
Haven't you read the Hacker Manifesto?
I can program, you can program, anyone who wants to learn to program can learn to program.
Yet, some specific demographics do a lot more than others. Strange, huh?
It's not my place to tell them how to live or act, nor is it yours.
So discussing social issues in open source isn't allowed, then?
Haven't you read the Hacker Manifesto?
I have, and it is bulshit.
Yet, some specific demographics do a lot more than others. Strange, huh?
This will change naturally as computers become more and more mainstream, and cheaper as well.
I also don't think it's "Strange, huh?". Do you think it's some sort of conspiracy against other demographics?Because that's absolutely absurd, and if there IS a conspiracy, it's directly from the government or some sort of religious authority.
If you seek such powerful rules in your favor, then you desire that same power.
This "demographics" problem must be changed at the child-education level. Not with dystopian rules like the ones currently being proposed.
So discussing social issues in open source isn't allowed, then?
You can discuss whatever you desire.
However, can you handle the opposite? Can you handle someone talking about a social issue that opposes yours? Obviously not.
I have, and it is bulshit.
It is immature because a kid wrote it, but if you don't understand it, then that's probably because you're not a hacker.
This will change naturally as computers become more and more mainstream, and cheaper as well.
I also don't think it's "Strange, huh?". Do you think it's some sort of conspiracy against other demographics?I don't think there's a conspiracy. I think there's a self feedback loop, like the one shown here. It's like saying everyone can make money, but it is naturally much easier to make money if you already have money. And suddenly, the poor stays poor and the rich stays rich, with exceptions of course. And when someone says there is inequity, they're told "everyone can make money".
However, can you handle the opposite? Can you handle someone talking about a social issue that opposes yours? Obviously not.
We're talking right now. I don't want people to be forced to not speak. As I said before, I have a lot of conservative friends as well. I just want to be sure their opinion won't backlash minority groups, like is happening here. And I stated: I don't even really agree Elia should really be removed from the project. But the discussion took another path a long time ago, I'd say in the few first posts in the other issue.
It is immature because a kid wrote it, but if you don't understand it, then that's probably because you're not a hacker.
Oh, I'm so not a hacker. Specially because I love code so much I think everyone should be allowed and incentivized to do it, not only a selected group of privileged people. And no one is special just because learned to code early (which I did).
Let us consider Scientology. To a Scientologist, the teachings of Scientology form the very core of their identity and their day to day life.
Now there are people in this world, shocking as it may sound, who have the audacity to declare that Scientologists are delusional. Some even advocate persecution of innocent Scientologists, accusing them of being part of some scam. Even whispers of child abuse.
Thankfully, as we value inclusion above all else, we harshly expel anyone who spouts such bigotry or even gives tacit approval to such disgusting claims.
So you all are telling me that even our industry having an extreme bias towards some gender/race stereotype, are you all willing to weight the voice of who is speaking solely by a metric where the dominant stereotype has clear advantage by the very reason we have the bias (please note how much 'code' we've read so far, almost no other form of contribution is even mentioned)?
We have a diversity problem because SWJ's claiming to promote diversity don't want to include the voices of the most disprivileged and marginalized and instead want to control the whole convo—which serves no interest other than the protection of their own socio-economic class privileges.
We have a diversity problem because the mass line is used to cover up the class line.
It has not escaped my notice that the only voices of underrepresented persons in tech that ever get a platform are those who enjoy middle/upper class privilege. A woman who is young, lucky to be employed and affluent and who is a pro-prostitution promoter gets paid to speak on "diversity issues" at Alterconf—but not the poor older lady who couldn't even afford her first computer until age 45 who is facing far more barriers to employment (due to ageism, classism, and sexism) who suffered lifelong poverty and marginalization because of being a human trafficking survivor that is involved in the anti-trafficking efforts does NOT get that same opportunity, or any help from the SWJ's.
Don't you acknowledge the lack of diversity of our industry or you just don't care?
No one here denied that the lack of opportunity for many groups is a problem. I don't think that's a fair question. Nor do I think it is fair that to jump to the conclusion that no one else cares. I obviously DO care. Which is why I challenged the SWJ's upthread to actually extend a material, economic helping hand up to poor marginalized folks trying to break into IT and to stop invisiblizing truly poor and disadvantaged members of underrepresented/invisibilized groups—like poor human trafficking survivors who struggled in lifelong crushing poverty due to being rendered unemployable because of being deeply stigmatized for being the victims of a human rights crime.
@AmbientMalice understands that s/he can speak his/her mind.
This person also recognizes that because they're comparing transgender people to scientologists, that this would offend me on a personal level.
For this reason, I no longer like or respect AmbientMalice.
But that offensive view is just one aspect of their personality, and although I disagree personally, if they had good code and still respected me enough to not just bash or mock me for being transgender upon every meeting, I could work with this person.
This is what a Code of Conflict is for. If someone is being purposely rude or mean to someone, I should be able to seek relief.
On the other hand, AmbientMalice's career should not be in jeopardy just because AmbientMalice is an asshole, or even a bad person.
Locking
- locked and limited conversation to collaborators
on Jun 21, 2015 I have locked this issue not to stop the conversation, but to direct it to somewhere more appropriate.
Over the last few days, a number of people in this conversation have taken the issue in hand and shown that discrimination against other individuals in our industry is, quite frankly, alarming. The tech/development/computer industry has a long and troubled history of discrimination against various groups of individuals which, judging by some of the comments in this and other threads, shows no sign of improving anytime soon.
To the people who contributed comments and messages looking to improve our community: thank you.
This whole matter could have been sorted in a peaceful manner; instead the problems in our community are not just present inside Opal, they are still present within the whole developer community.
I encourage every individual who has taken part in this conversation to review our recently committed Code of Conduct. That is the standard this project will be run against, however I am open to making further improvements.
Please help continue this discussion at http://metaruby.com/c/ruby-forum/community-issues
Thank you,
Adam.
The discussion from @meh on #941 say that new contributors will be "welcome and treated with respect."
A code of conduct is a common practice to foster a kind, inclusive, cooperative, and harassment-free community. Adopting a code of conduct would demonstrate that new contributors will be welcomed and respected.