Espruino JavaScript
Bangle Js v2 #2894
Replies: 30 comments
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Posted at 2021-09-03 by @gfwilliams Thanks! Yes, it's a good point. I think the out of box experience would need to be more polished (especially on the fitness side of things) and I'd have to have a curated section of the app store, but I think it could be a lot more mainstream. It's tricky though - as you get more mainstream people get more picky. With the Bangle 1 I get people who buy it just to try out and then return it 2 weeks later for a refund. I'm not sure I got a single return from the original Espruino board, and I think as I go more mainstream that sort of thing will happen more and more. |
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Posted at 2021-09-15 by MartinNK WOW ... exited to get one. Any idea how fare away we are from kickstarter campaign? Best regards. Martin. |
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Posted at 2021-09-16 by @gfwilliams Hopefully less than a week now. I was hoping to launch on Monday but I got back from holiday to over 500 emails and a bunch of work, so I've had to delay it a bit. I'm trying to get the bulk of the video sorted today - then maybe launch on Monday |
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Posted at 2021-09-27 by Danielo515 Is it released already? |
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Posted at 2021-09-28 by Robin Mon 2021.09.27 Posted Wed 22nd, five days ago . . .
Goal met. 14 days to go. Consider your pledge to support! |
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Posted at 2021-09-28 by Tx Yes! 60k stretch goal coming next ... |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by Danielo515 Awesome! I just ordered two (they are so dam cheap!) |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by Tx 80k stretch goal coming next :-) |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by johan_m_o And closing in fast! Reaching 100k+ seems very possible. Now it's just to figure out what that goal should be... |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by Tx I hope we will get the 80k. The app will make Bangle.js even more attractive. |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by @gfwilliams Thanks! I think right now it's looking like Bluetooth Long Range will be the 100k goal. Also, didn't mention this on the KickStarter but after a period of not moving the accelerometer enters low power mode (1.25Hz), and that drops power usage to 0.15mA so you're looking at around 2 months battery life (with the screen always on!). |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by Tx
We have to call you Gordon "The Wizard" Williams from now on ... :-) |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by @MaBecker wow 2 month standby is really great 👍🏻 |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by SirXerox I'd like to back Bangle Js 2 but it says rewards are not guaranteed? For those who back have you received your reward? |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by johan_m_o There's still almost two weeks left on the campaign, so nobody has recieved anything yet (except those that have bought the developer watches from the Espruino store). That's a message from Kickstarter, reminding you that Kickstarter isn't a store but a way for creators to raise money to complete their projects. Sometimes projects fail (I've had a couple of duds), but since Bangle.js 2 already is over 800% funded and there's still 13 days to go I believe the funds won't be an issue at least. And @gfwilliams is extremely good at running a campaign, so I'm not worried. Also: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gfw/banglejs-2-the-open-smart-watch/risks |
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Posted at 2021-09-29 by Tx
Last time I did and Gordon has several other successful campaigns. Yes, you are right, on Kickstarter nothing is guaranteed. You have to assess the risks for yourself. In my case Gordons projects are up to now the only ones I were backing. If you don't want to back it right now on Kickstarter you may later buy it as a product on espruino.com, but with likely a higher price tag. |
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Posted at 2021-09-30 by Robin Wed 2021.09.29
After seeing that you have been posting @SirXerox
I find it a bit of a stretch to doubt the validity and successes of the Espruino brand here. Did you follow the link and Actually read the detail there??? (no)
and the forums speak for themselves. 3300 registered users - 5000 forum conversations - nearly 50,000 comments I participated in the Bangle V1 campaign and also own every Authentic Espruino. To satisfy your doubts, persuse the forums, review the more than 100 tutorials, the bazillion apps created by current satisfied consumers follow the links in Then if you are still not convinced, . . . wait, . . . and eventually wish you had gotten in early while everyone else is gleefully experimenting and enjoying their progress as you read thoses successes here in the forums. |
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Posted at 2021-09-30 by @gfwilliams @SirXerox as the others say, on KickStarter the rewards aren't guaranteed, but creators are still legally responsible in some way. It depends on the creator how safe you are, but I have shipped 4 KickStarter campaigns previously, and I actually have the devices sitting in boxes behind me, so personally I think the risks are extremely low - but at the end of the day the call is up to you. |
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Posted at 2021-10-01 by user107850 Gordon this is absolutely fantastic! As my application area is health and fitness, I wonder what can you tell us about the step counter and the heart rate sensor. Chips used? Does the accelerometer include its HW step counter or are you relying on the same algorithm used on Bangle 1? What about the heart rate sensor? I am very excited about this project, thanks very much for working on it. |
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Posted at 2021-10-02 by Robin Fri 2021.10.01
Accessible from any Espruino site web page: Menu >> Documentation >> Bangle.js 2 @user107850 Beneath the Features heading lists the mfg and part number. |
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Posted at 2021-10-02 by user107850 thanks. So it looks like they do not come with embedded algorithms. Developing some reliable step counting and heart rate measurement is going to be a challenge for us! |
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Posted at 2021-10-02 by HughB
@user107850 - totally agree. We have to get these solid if a health / fitness app is going to be of any value on the Bangle watches. |
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Posted at 2021-10-04 by @gfwilliams @hughb has put an immense amount of work into the step counting algorithm, so I'd hope that should be pretty decent. The heart rate sensor is the VC31. We actually use the code for auto-exposure adjustment that Vcare provide, but honestly it feels like that's the weak link right now. It can take quite a long time for it to adjust until it's providing decent PPG readings. After we get the readings we use our own algorithm but actually that's able to pull out heart rate pretty well. |
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Posted at 2021-10-04 by user107850 OK, good to know! |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by Ronin Hi, I was wondering for Bangle.js V2 if the double buffered mode is full screen? |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by @fanoush
Typically there are two separate parts, the low level driver stuff that can turn on/off the led(s), setup the sensitivity, detect proximity (=you are wearing it) The lower level part is not a problem to have open source, the information comes from datasheet or sample code available or reverse engineering. We found enough of this for VC31 (well, except the datasheet). The higher level comes as static library that can be linked to the project and is not opensource. This is of course not usable for us and is probably even not worth it. Previously I had same experience with PAH8001 (DS-D6) and HRS3300 (many other watches) - same structure, very similar library where you feed sensor data and accelerometer x,y,z periodically and after some time it starts giving you heartrate. As for VC31 the manufacturer page is http://www.vcaresensor.com/ and there was even VC31 subpage some time ago but it gives 404 now. When I tried to contact them (months ago) for more information via their contact email I got no reply. Fortunately someone published enough information on github as part of his hardware project that includes this sensor. There is even the high level closed source library. But still, this can be used just as a reference. Not sure if the library would even link correctly with nrf52 build. |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by user107850 Hi @fanoush, I have followed your work closely in the past. I can see that this is a collaboration among the best experts in reverse engineering watches there are around 😀! As far as I understand what you are saying, the driver is just an implementation of the I2C protocol, and you have reverse-engineered it. Quite an achievement without a datasheet. As for the higher level library, the reason why you do not want to use it is because it's not open sourced? In any case, the fact that it requires acceleration is an indication that it makes use of it to probably discard data that is corrupted by movement. We could probably record some raw signals, including acceleration and PPG and put them in a repository for benchmarking different versions of algorithms. We would also need a reference heart rate for that, which we can obtain from another device, like a Polar or similar. Then we could invite people to test their best algorithms in some sort of competition... I am working on an HR detection algorithm with students, but using the PPG from a smartphone. As the problem is similar, I may try to include data from the BangleJS as well. I'll keep you informed. |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by @fanoush
Fortunately as I mentioned there is also the stuff found on github with C source and headers that describes registers but it is combined effort, yes, before this appeared there already was some VC31 reverse engineering done by @gfwilliams, also the source in Espruino tree regarding Bangle 2 is all his. This watch was independently discovered by more people so some collaboration is here https://hackaday.io/project/175577-hackable-nrf52840-smart-watch , the Q3 is a successor of Q2 https://hackaday.com/2020/01/30/sma-q2-smart-watch-is-completely-hackable/
cannot talk for Gordon and Bangle.js but yes, I think it is better to have one developed by community as the library is kind of black box and I hope over time we can have better one anyway like with the step counting |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by @gfwilliams What's happened with the VC31 is I'd decompiled the original firmware, and had something working(ish) - but without register names it was basically impossible to work with. As with @fanoush I tried to contact Vcare multiple times but never got a reply . @fanoush managed to find a VC31 driver online somehow, and I took the register names there, what I'd learnt from the reverse engineering, and got something going. However I do wonder if the driver @fanoush found isn't also the result of decompiling too as there are some telltale signs in there...
I think legally I'm on slightly shaky ground pulling in a closed source blob and hosting it on Espruino's GitHub, but yes, also it doesn't look great and isn't maintainable. However I seem to recall that when I decompiled the code in question it didn't actually look that complex, so I may at some point go through it properly, try and get a full idea of what it's doing and then re-implement it. Worth noting that the original watch claims to do blood pressure too, so potentially the algorithm could do that (although I'm dubious!).
Yes. The screen is actually double-buffered by default now, so there is no specific screen mode :) |
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Posted at 2021-10-05 by Ronin Ok thanks! |
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Posted at 2021-09-02 by SirXerox
I thought I'd mention but this watch has the potential to be one of the best cheap watches around, because it has an appstore which is rare on a cheap watch, if it went mainstream instead of being classified as a "hackable " ,"open source" smartwatch it can be just a normal watch with the potential to build your own apps.It's even better with 2.0 because it now has a more common sleek design.
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