Espruino JavaScript
MDBT42 + breakout #6768
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Posted at 2017-01-16 by ChristianW +1 for MDBT42 + breakout. Posted at 2017-01-16 by @gfwilliams Realistically it'd be a few months from now. I've got to get a few outstanding projects finished before I take on anything else. I imagine I'd have to sell them at around the $10 mark, going down a bit with volume. I can't go too low with the price as I'll have had to have spent the money up front buying at least 1000 of them. On the breakout board, it depends. If I didn't solder, so literally just supplied modules and breakout boards, they'd end up being maybe $2 each, if that. If I had to get someone to solder them on then the price would go right up though. Posted at 2017-01-17 by CanyonCasa This may influence your interest in the idea... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13990 Posted at 2017-01-17 by @gfwilliams I know - IMO it's more about getting Espruino pre-installed on it. Usually it's a pain because it's extremely unlikely that the board will ship with Nordic's latest secure bootloader - so you're probably looking at uploading with an external SWD programmer. Interesting that they're not using a module (so almost certainly not CE/FCC certified), but are still charging $20 for it :) Posted at 2017-01-30 by OwenBrotherwood +1 for MDBT42 + breakout. If no one else has looked at the device in connection with bootloader, I would like to get one with the effort to get an Espruino product if Gordon wants it to happen. Has anyone a source for the MDBT42 that is quick to presss pay and receive? Posted at 2017-01-30 by Adam79 @OwenBrotherwood https://www.seeedstudio.com/MDBT42Q-nRF52832-based-BLE-module-p-2736.html No idea if they can have the firmware uploaded out of the box, which I think Gordon was alluding to. @gfwilliams have you thought about doing a https://www.massdrop.com/ to help carry the cost burden. Posted at 2017-01-30 by OwenBrotherwood http://www.raytac.com/product_detail.php?id=68 so ok. 27 euros to get it to DK within a few days. I wait until Saturday as to if I order one: someone may already have established the bootloader Posted at 2017-01-30 by @gfwilliams I don't believe those ones come with a bootloader - so you'd have to wire up SWD and program them that way. It looks like it might be a bit techy for massdrop? something like that might be cool though - effectively meaning I could just get them made and post them off to someone else for shipping - it'd be a real help. I've had very little luck with non-kickstarter pre-orders though - usually a lot of effort, and quite a high percentage of people change their mind in the month between paying and getting their stuff. Posted at 2017-01-30 by OwenBrotherwood Dependent on time and "life"... Posted at 2017-01-31 by OwenBrotherwood A couple of links to keep some thoughts in one place: If the price is the same, are there sufficient advantages to wait for a supplier for the nRF52840 If the need for a breakout is "now", can the two products use the same PCB. Experience with a nRF52840 Note that the board is Preview At this time, http://www.raytac.com/ has no nRF52840 and probably first after Preview. Bootloader unknown on raytac: I have a raytac module that I can try and hook up to see if it has a bootloader (if I can find it and if I can find a magnifiying glass to be able to see the pins) What is wanted from the PCB: some input is needed so that the most effective solution for Gordon is obtained. Edit: I-SYST inc.
http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=61707 Price difference for basic part (while not knowing what CIAA-R contra other versions means) indicates double price ie difference of about $2 with possible percentage difference for a device of type "ratac" (or other similiar) Attachments: Posted at 2017-01-31 by @gfwilliams Personally I think the nRF52840 is just a nRF52832 with more flash and RAM - but I wonder whether you need it? I mean, it's not like people are really running out of memory with Puck.js at the moment. It definitely won't be the same price as the 32 either :) In terms of a board, I'd say:
Any thoughts about a 3.3v regulator? It'd mean you could run it off of 5v or a LiPo, but it would also draw power, so would reduce battery life. Posted at 2017-02-01 by OwenBrotherwood I was looking thru the docs, for some reason I do it a lot just now, and I did not find a MDBT42 device (https://github.com/espruino/EspruinoDocs/tree/master/devices ). Posted at 2017-02-01 by OwenBrotherwood http://forum.espruino.com/comments/13446397/ is updated with information, in particular, a guess at price difference for two boards with 42 contra 50. Posted at 2017-02-01 by @gfwilliams It would definitely make sense to add it if I started selling the devices themselves. If you did want to add something, if you could do it in Markdown format (not PDF) it'd make it a lot easier to add to. Possibly I should just have a folder in EspruinoDocs for 'in progress' documentation? Or to be honest just posting on the forum seems good enough - it's probably more likely to be searchable than a document buried in the repositories somewhere. Posted at 2017-02-01 by OwenBrotherwood PR would be in Markdown with full compliance to what I can see in docs repro for devices. Posted at 2017-02-01 by OwenBrotherwood Bootloader http://www.raytac.com/download/MDBT42/MDBT42Q-Version%20B.pdf @adam79 had previously found the price of $10 https://www.seeedstudio.com/MDBT42Q-nRF52832-based-BLE-module-p-2736.html contra the $28 http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=61707 which could have been easier for pin connection. Edit: now $18 for IMM-NRF52832 https://www.tindie.com/products/hnhoan/nrf52832-ant-bluetooth-le-arm-cortex-m4f-30-io/ Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-02 by @gfwilliams If you're ordering a few you can get them as samples from Raytac - but while they're cheaper you'll get stung for postage. As far as I know there is no bootloader - so the best way to flash them would be to buy an nRF52DK and wire SWD to the programming headers. Any thoughts on a way for me to get a bunch of pre-orders together? If I could get 100 or so it could be worth me making a programming jig - obviously if I sell them with Espruino and a bootloader installed it makes life a lot easier! Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood I have two nRF52DK's at the moment: so Denmark is "easy" for possible help in connection with time and POC. Edit: Edit: Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood As the puck.js is using the raytac and as I-Syst has not replied to my email then some form of collection of a nr of raytacs would be great. Edit micro:bit is about 15 euros that give a puck.bit at about 20 euros Posted at 2017-02-02 by @gfwilliams From my point of view, at 7 euros each it's not worth me doing. You can't even buy them unprogrammed for that. For that I'll have to import them and pay tax, then spend a minute minimum getting the board out, programming it, then packing it back up and posting it. And for those 100 boards I'd have to create and maintain a separate build as well. On top of that, 1% will be lost, some will be soldered up wrong and blown up and I'll be asked for refunds, and then there'll be support. I'll be losing money on each one sold :( Perhaps the best solution is to offer a kit - maybe 3x modules and 3x breakout boards (not soldered) for 35 euros. That could be worthwhile I guess? Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood It is the classic "what will the customer pay" and what do I want to earn and how much time to earn :) I only put up prices to get the ball moving :) I think that kits sound good: 35/2 gives a good enough price where the third is great if one has not made a mistake in soldering etc so one has at least 2 that work when one is finished doing what one wants. Edit: Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood I know the component is not the nRF52, but a raytac so I can begin to visualise sizes as upverter has some nice diagram pcb 3d quickies . https://upverter.com/OwenBrotherwood/4a5b41325e807fb1/cubejs/ Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood As allready indicated with a form for module based building blocks, back to BBC micro:bit failed in connection with ram: onboard python does not fit with BLE support. If the main nRF5x pcb can support both, and one has not too much stock of 52832, an upgrade is a commodity exploit so hackers can have fun with more for about the same price. A question of timing and not underestimating the future demands of a well thought out product. Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood Breadcrumbs: bear with me. Given a good basic pcb, one could achieve: A local british supplier of components needed for other uses than the immediate espruino type usage Posted at 2017-02-02 by OwenBrotherwood Having made a cardboard cube to find out if the size feels right, one could also consider what to do with the boring base, add wheels and some light sensor(s) and http://ozobot.com/ as an add-on "when/if the time is right" either by oneself or by peripheral suppliers to a proven espruino sw base. Make sure the cube has some means to be pinned into for some form of bigger bot so the kids have something a bit bigger at some time Even after a bit of presentation work, there are still "big problems" and in the end, one says to one's self "there must be a better way" Edit: Edit: Peripheral business with suppliers of well thought out add-ons who can also take some of the pain of assembly and test of possible DIY espurino kits Posted at 2017-02-03 by @gfwilliams Honestly I'd like to keep the PCB as simple as possible - it'd be Open Source so easy enough for anyone to get a new PCB spun with (for instance) LoRa on it if they wanted. This one would just be to get people started. Adding a rechargeable battery solution is again really difficult - this thing will run for a year on a CR2032 - and probably at least 10 years on one of those non-rechargeable Lithium AA batteries - so I wonder how big a deal it really is. Posted at 2017-02-03 by OwenBrotherwood
I agree, a PCB that just works. ie whatever Gordon is comfortable is the best, and whatever happens can happen if more comfortable with whatever is created. Posted at 2017-02-03 by @gfwilliams As long as all a lot of IO is brought out and the footprint can be easily uses in Eagle then people can make their own boards. Although there's a lot to be said for just making a PCB that had the Arduino footprint? There might be enough spare space to get 1x Arduino and 2x DIP PCBs in the area of one Arduino PCB. Posted at 2017-02-03 by OwenBrotherwood Arduino footprint has many merits : I am evaluating on the nRF52-DK. Posted at 2017-02-03 by OwenBrotherwood
Yep: a pcb with full footprint with some thought to allow for a reduced pcb by reuse of a well thought out placement of components in relation to the risers on the board. I make a cardboard mock up for myself of the size of a cubebit.js and maybe makes some schematic/pcb with the only intension being to see if things look right. Edit: Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-03 by @gfwilliams
It would give the value of having Espruino pre-installed, and by actually helping to support Espruino development. I can't compete with boards like nRF52-DK - I believe these are sold basically at cost in order to get more nRF52s into products. Posted at 2017-02-03 by OwenBrotherwood yes: the need is support Espruino. I looked at the nRF52-DK: it is not allowed to really operate as a "consumer product". Posted at 2017-02-03 by OwenBrotherwood I have spent all day holding the top green board (mostly cos I have problems) but the size of a shield seems right If I am write in Gordon wants the PCB as the same size as a shield with arduino pinouts And if the area that is not with connector pins is a prototype area, I can allways break it of to make it square for a cubebit.js :) Posted at 2017-02-05 by OwenBrotherwood If I remember correctly, the arduino culture was that a device should fit in a cigarette box. Next step is leave as much copper on the board for anything that the community would like to SMD/prototype to so that the copper that would otherwise go down the drain to the environment is put to good usage Edit: Edit: Posted at 2017-02-05 by OwenBrotherwood In releation to the above arduino shield drawing. Almost forgot, anything else there is room for with pin holes for something else there may be room/usage for Edit: Edit https://raytac.blog/2017/01/24/how-to-use-raytac-mdbt42q-nordic-nrf52832-demo-board/ Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-06 by OwenBrotherwood A nice guy is doing a new batch of this shield "soon" https://github.com/lrnzzz/RN2483-LoRa-Shield Posted at 2017-02-06 by OwenBrotherwood Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-07 by @gfwilliams Hopefully the 8 main 0.1" holes on Puck.js are on a 0.1" grid, so should fit on any 0.1" prototyping board? Posted at 2017-02-07 by OwenBrotherwood I have a soldering iron ready, just have to find a good female connector for the bottom of the puck.js Posted at 2017-02-07 by OwenBrotherwood Well, if I make a mistake, I know where to order for more ... Attachments: Posted at 2017-02-14 by OwenBrotherwood As Gordon is working hard on the puck.js and Espruino support and I am trying to show the puck.js as an addition on Arduino boards I thought I would write the following as an analysis. New is nice, but the efforts to create support for a new device, nRF52840 would probably not be a "good idea" I drop thoughts of nRF52840 : next year maybe. This year? I hope for enough intressted people for the nRF52832 PCB but the puck.js is filling my needs at the moment, PCB would also be real great if possible, but not at the cost of time for puck.js Edit: Edit: Posted at 2017-02-14 by @gfwilliams It's worth noting that nRF52832 does do Bluetooth 5 - as far as I can tell the only radio difference is a slightly higher power output, which allows longer range. Otherwise it's the same. Yes, I have to move threads - I've just done this. Posted at 2017-02-20 by OwenBrotherwood Market research: And strange how few pins are exposed: And who is using espruino: Edit: from Gordons comment below Posted at 2017-02-21 by @gfwilliams You might see some other threads on redbear/espruino if you search. Posted at 2017-02-21 by Adam79 I'd love to have an "Original" espruino in the nano2 form :-). Posted at 2017-02-21 by OwenBrotherwood Or even smaller: but there might be problems with some approval EMC or what not Posted at 2017-02-21 by Adam79 Oh wow, that is small. The idea of using a small/basic ble esprunino in a plug an play manner would be great, BYOB - Bring Your Own Bluetooth if you like. Also 3.7V compatible :-) Posted at 2017-02-22 by @gfwilliams Yes, I'd seen those boards - they look lovely! Sadly a bit on the pricey side when I looked (and nRF51-only at the moment). I was considering a slightly larger DIL footprint that'd allow me to stick the module in the middle without having to do anything too costly (or fragile :). 3.7v is actually a really tricky one... I could add a voltage regulator, but they draw some power just by being there - and also make it difficult to run it off a flat 3v. Another option might be to just stick a diode on the board to drop the voltage enough. But even if I do that, the IO isn't 5v tolerant at all - which could really cause some problems. Posted at 2017-02-22 by Spocki Perhaps this: https://www.u-blox.com/de/product/b200-nina-b1 Posted at 2017-03-21 by OwenBrotherwood Not strickly on topic: the puck.js can do this with the right carrier board for RF (possible need for more power reserve) Edit: no bluetooth visible in spec, but there seems to be an unpopulated copper area that looks a bit familiar. may be wifi, I can only guess Edit: no copper area in the https://www.thethingsindustries.com/products/hardware pics. Edit: http://forum.espruino.com/comments/13535822/ probably on this pic Attachments: Posted at 2017-03-21 by @gfwilliams If you want to do this, shoving an MDBT42, RN2483, and a 3.3v power supply on a board would only take a few minutes. There's very little circuitry required. A lot of what's on there seems to be for (I guess) an Arduino-compatible processor - but all that would be built into the MDBT42. |
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Posted at 2017-01-14 by user70974
Hi Gordon
You mentioned in a previous thread about potentially selling the the MDBT42 and breakout. If you did decide to sell that, how long would it be until that was available, and how much might they cost individually?
I'm asking because I have potentially a big project on the horizon and the MDBT42 would be perfect for it, but until I've finished prototyping, I doubt I'd need to order enough that I could buy direct.
Log course having the espruino env on the MDBT42 would make the project even easier too.
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