Our New KickStarter! Espruino Pico

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2014-10-24 by @gfwilliams

It's just launched, and it's awesome!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gfw/espruino-pico-javascript-on-a-usb-stick

Please think about supporting me - the one's really cool, and I'd love to see it succeed!

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-24 by DrAzzy

Hurray - that new prototype looks really good. Got any pictures of the underside of it?

The bit about the 10 year runtime on an AA-sized lithium - might want to clarify that. Most people will assume that means "<duracell/energizer> Lithium", the 1.5v alkaline replacements, not the 3.6v lithium thionyl chloride cells that I assume you had in mind.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-24 by DaveNI

Looks really cool - looking forward for mine to arrive in April!

I liked some of the ideas (the use of the plastic pipe & end stops was imaginative)

Have you thought of offering solderless pins?

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10527

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2014-10-25 by @gfwilliams

Thanks!

@drazzy - Ahh, I didn't even realise they did AA sized lithiums that weren't 3v :) I've just updated it. I've been avoiding posting pictures of the other side because the silkscreen says 'Espruino Mini' :) I can't find a picture right now, but the attached PCB image might actually be more interesting?

Basically there are no components, but there are pads for a JST connector, as well as 0.05' spaced pads for JTAG/NRST so you can use a hardware debugger on it with a bit of soldering.

@DaveNI - I did look at solderless pins (I ordered some, there's a post on it somewhere), but they're actually really hard to push in. So much so that if you're not careful you could easily damage yourself/the boards. You really need a vice.

I could make the holes in the board just a tad bigger so the pins fitted better, but I asked the pin manufacturers and:

• They really weren't interested in selling me sensible quantities (not even 100,000)
• They said they couldn't recommend using bigger holes, and weren't really willing to make any comment on it.

It sucks really - it would have been perfect but I tried to contact 3 different manufacturers and nobody was really very interested at all.

Attachments:

• Screenshot from 2014-10-25 13:53:29.png

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-25 by @allObjects

What would it take to enable Pico to be - reverse - sticked into a Wifi USB adapter like pictured below? (I'm sure power could be of concern: Pico saving the world, and the adapter wasting it...). These things are now dirt cheap and readily available.

Attachments:

• Wifi USB LAN Adapter.png

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-25 by Sacha

Hi Gordon,

Congrats! We will reach the 50k goal for sure. Can't wait for a real socket support.

Sacha

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2014-10-26 by @gfwilliams

@sacha, thanks!

@allObjects I think it'd require quite a lot I'm afraid (USB OTG support would have to be added, and that may need some other components to be done properly). Nice idea though! The ESP8266 is about the same price and should still fit on pretty easily though.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-26 by asez73

Hello,

The Espruino and Espruino Pico are really interesting projects. So I supported you by backing an Espruino Pico yesterday and received an Espruino 1V4 from Limetrace last Monday.

The Espruino board is the best choice when it comes to battery operated applications such as data loggers.
A proper ESP8266 module, solving the very tight power management issues, is still my best choice to IOT. A GPIO could just shut it down until sending data is a necessity... This module is a game changer and Espruino is very well suited to interconnect it with sensors!

Go on with your projects!

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-26 by Bert-Holland

Congrats Gordon!

I like the new pico already.

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2014-10-26 by @gfwilliams

Thanks for all the support!

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-26 by @allObjects

Ic... (OTG). I was less thinking about price, but more of change of connectivity/connectivity
and pin reuse at the same time: not to have the USB (board) plug and chip pins sitting idling there while not plugged in (as USB slave) and not being able to use the 'pins' (chip and board)... reusing space and pins in pico context means a lot.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-27 by user7114

The bit about the 10 year runtime on an AA-sized lithium - might want
to clarify that. Most people will assume that means " Lithium", the
1.5v alkaline replacements, not the 3.6v lithium thionyl chloride cells that I assume you had in mind.

Current draw in sleep: <0.1mA - over 2.5 years on a 2500mAh battery.

Whoa ...The minimum "Pico" input is 3.5-20 vdc.

Are we talking 1 or multiple batteries?
Are you using a booster on the battery(s)?
What type of battery are you using?
Are we reducing the capacity 8% per month for self discharge? (for lipos) Varies between other battery chemistry.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-27 by DrAzzy

Lithium Thionyl Chloride batteries are not lipo batteries. They use a different chemistry, and are not rechargable. They have (according to the manufacturers, so take w/salt) ~1% self discharge per year. They also don't handle high current very well (they're the batteries they use in, for example, those new 12-year disposable smoke detectors, that never need new batteries).

I doubt they'd actually be putting out 3.5v by the end, though they've got a pretty flat discharge curve, and I think they'd be close enough that it'd still work. The STM32F401CC is spec'ed to run at 1.8-3.6v, it looks like.

On another topic... shouldn't one of the kits include an esp8266? That'd be a great selling point, Wi-Fi connectivity included in the kit

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2014-10-27 by @gfwilliams

Thanks @drazzy - it seems some people are taking real issue with the 10 year figure, but just to show my calculations:

• 2.5Ah@3.6v is standard for these batteries
• STM32 is 12uA in sleep (datasheet says as low as 10uA, but let's be careful :)
• XC6206 regulator is 1uA
• Waking every 60s for 10ms is 30mA*0.010s / 60 = 5 uA average
• So 18uA average

That's 2500mAh / 0.018mA = 138888 hours = 15.8 years

So quoting 10 years leaves 5.8 for self-discharge/etc :)

I was very tempted by adding ESP8266 to a kit... I may add it later - I just want to get it working first and to make sure that it's properly reliable :)

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-27 by MobiComm

Gordon, 10 years lifetime of a battery means you lost 33% due to self-discharge after 10 years @ 25 C. So after 10 years you only have 0.66 * 2500 = 1650mAh. So 10 years working is not a problem.

BUT: If your continues current drain is larger than your self-discharge you can ignore your self-discharge current. Self-discharge current is simply the result of a chemical reaction always taking place even if there is no load . If you do have a load current that is larger the self-discharge effect is much smaller than if you have no load at all.

Paul.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2014-10-27 by user7114

The Pico is awesome!

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-01-17 by @gfwilliams

I'll look at @allObjects idea next week, although I'll need to be careful. There is a ground plane right under the high speed oscillator to cut down on interference, so I don't want to move that too much.

However as @frida suggests we're really close to the point where the boards are ready to be made. The old L arrangement is really not a huge problem. It's extremely unlikely that anyone will use it, especially as there are now castellations so most people will just use them.

On top of that I have prototypes of the old design that are tested and that work, and there's no way I have time to prototype the new one, meaning I'll have to make 4000 UNTESTED boards in order to save 2 people from filling down a connector a little bit. If it delays everyone else getting their board, I doubt they'll appreciate the extra 0.05" gap.

Honestly the more I think about it I'm not convinced it's a good idea at all. In the interests of getting everyone their boards on time I think we should probably just drop this and go back to the original L design.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-21 by d0773d

@gordon
Will you be releasing the finalized eagle cad foot print files for the pico before the Pico is shipped?

I need to get a PCB designed and was hoping to get one designed and receive my PCB right about the same time I receive my kickstarter pledge reward.

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-01-22 by @gfwilliams

Yes, I will be. I'll do it after the PCB has been okayed by the manufacturer (in case they need any changes made so they can tile it properly) - but hopefully that'll happen in the next week or so.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-22 by d0773d

Great! Thanks.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-26 by LawrenceG

Dumb question alert!
I've been re-considering the IO boards (digital/analog etc) I use for projects.
And particular in terms of using USB-PICO with Raspberry PI (RPI).
Have got a number of PICOs on order.

How does the PICO present it's self to a RPI?
As a serial USB?
if so, could I write my own serial to IO control protocol?
Or would I have to utilise one of the other PICO's UARTS?

Thanks
Lawrence

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-01-27 by @gfwilliams

Hi Lawrence,

Yes, The Pico appears as a USB Serial port - usually /dev/ttyACM0. If you want to control Espruino's IO from the Pi it's actually really easy. As it runs JavaScript, that's the protocol you use.

For example, to turn the LED on from the shell, just write:

echo -e "digitalWrite(LED1,1);\n" > /dev/ttyACM0

But you can actually program in more advanced behaviour. If you want to 'shift' data out in some format, just write a JavaScript function to do it and send it over the same way. You can then just call that function when you want to do things:

echo -e "function a(arr) { arr.forEach(function(d) {for (var i=0;i<32;i++) { A0.write(d&1); d=d>>1; }});}\n" > /dev/ttyACM0
echo -e "a([1,2,3,4,5,6,7])\n" > /dev/ttyACM0
echo -e "a([8,9,10])\n" > /dev/ttyACM0

There's some more info on sending commands from another computer here: http://www.espruino.com/Interfacing

You could write your own protocol too - by moving the console away from USB (using LoopbackA.setConsole()) you can then use USB.on('data', ...) to make your own handler for data that's been sent over.

But personally I'd just use JS as it's actually pretty efficient, and easy to understand/debug.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-27 by LawrenceG

Gordon, that's great news thanks.
I use nodered.org on RPI so I'll write a node to do just that.
I hadn't properly engaged with the fact that JS on espruino is interpreted, obvious and very neat.
I've got one of the current espruino will try on that.

A lot folk use an arduino for IO handling with RPI.
Any others out there using espruino in the same way?

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-01-27 by @gfwilliams

Ahh, great - I've had a play at using node red to control an Espruino, and it works really nicely with the serial module. The new versions (in GitHub, not sure if they're released yet) allow submodules, so you can do everything you need in node red.

Having said that, if you wanted to actually make a module it'd be amazing. Getting data back from Espruino via Node Red nodes is a bit of a faff at the moment (if you send data down the serial port then it's hard to make sure that the value that's returned goes to the right input node).

I think there are one or two people using Espruino that way - especially because you get Analog IO, but not that many. I think a lot of people haven't realised that it really is that easy.

It's mostly my mistake for not saying much about it, but I'm hoping that the Pico (that's more plug-sized) will get people's attention a bit more as an IO board.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-27 by LawrenceG

Some of the Node-Reders have backed Pico that includes one of the core team I think.
I've already done a serial based NR node for EnOcean wireless.
I make a start in the next few weeks for espruino.

// On PICO as an IO module.
It's more than just Analog, it's all the GPIO Libraries.
A recent RPI update killed i2c on node.js which killed 1-wire.
Getting event drive IO working on RPI requires skill that is beyond many.

For me with Node-Red & PICO I get perfect separation of concerns.
The former is socket oriented, the later GPIO, but both are JavaScript!

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-27 by @allObjects

...Pico (that's more plug-sized) will get people's attention a bit more as an IO board.

It sure does, Espruino got me already there, but not only because of that.

How would I setup Espruino with a HTTP server and client and Browser and Apache or a like on my Laptop/Mac for duplex (not necessarily simultaneously) and have them tethered directly with USB?

Such a setup would also be beneficial for a Test environment (in the browser)... it would not have to poll anymore... it could be event driven...

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-01-28 by LawrenceG

Couldn't resit ow what fun with Node-Red and espruino working in minuets, played for hours .... amazing! ok got light level & 1-wire temp going to node-red on RPI sending JSON via console.log :)

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-02-10 by Bert

@gordon have you finalised the board yet ? and are you releasing the eagle files ? I'm eager to be build some shields for the microchip rn4020 ble module and maybe the hm-10.

You've mentioned your own desire to create some shields is it worth having a seperate thread/area for this ?

edit: ooops found the thread http://forum.espruino.com/conversations/259519/

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-02-10 by @gfwilliams

Hi Bert,

Yes, sorry - I've been a bit busy lately trying to get the kits together! Yes, it was finalised last week - lets just hope the PCBs are good when they arrive :) I'll try and get the part outlines online this afternoon - i'll post up on the other thread.

I'd actually really appreciate some help with the adaptors, so maybe we can have an area on GitHub? I think it would be painful trying to work together on one Eagle schematic, but I could probably script something up that will merge a whole load of different gerbers into one big gerber full of different adaptors that we could get printed.

[espruino-discuss]

Posted at 2015-05-13 by @allObjects

Just came across the intel compute stick - HDMI stick - not USB stick. I do not know what it does when just powered but not 'hosted' by a HDMI display device (TV). If it can auto-boot and connect wifi/bluetooth, may be remote desktop could work. What it is for sure missing: no wholes or headers to connect other hardware. An Espruino (PICO) as Beach Head plugged to the standard USB solves this issue (the other - micro - USB is then still free to get powered). Otherwise pretty 'impressive'... also the power consumption/requirement: 4 times what a standard USB can deliver at max: 2A = 4 x 500mA (some tech details). I like the Ubuntu version...

And f0r very little - street $130, you get your Espruino development environment 'piggy backing' the investment of your TV... which you may already have anyway: IView's Cyber PC - comes with the stick, keyboard, and power supply... (great review).

---

Attachments:

• intelComputeStick.png

[gfwilliams]

Posted at 2015-05-14 by @gfwilliams

Yes, that looks interesting. Nice to be able to just stick a Pico in the side and then use it for measurement + control!