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Add Zia sun symbol for New Mexico shield #323

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merged 13 commits into from
Apr 30, 2024
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claysmalley
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Changes the shields of Iowa, Kentucky, New Mexico and Virginia (secondary) to use circleShield() instead of roundedRectShield(). I intentionally left this out of the previous PR because it's a stylistic choice and it'd need more discussion.

For shields that are circle-shaped for 1 or 2 digits, behavior is different when expanding to 3 or more digits. Delaware, Mississippi and New Jersey use an oval. Kentucky uses a geometric stadium. Iowa, New Mexico, and the secondaries of Virginia maintain a circle and compress the text, though they have been assigned stadium shapes in this project.

In my opinion, this distinction is not worth keeping. All of these networks are just as recognizable if we stick to one shape for shields with 3 or more digits. I think ovals look better than stadiums for these cases.

(Note that this does not change network=CA:ON:private_toll, which would be unrecognizable without the stadium shape, and is probably a good candidate for an SVG shield anyway.)

before:
Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-33-04 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-32-49

after:
Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-32-14 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-32-28

before:
Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-34-09 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-34-21

after:
Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-34-58 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 14-34-46

@1ec5
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1ec5 commented May 14, 2022

We also considered standardizing all of the rounded shields on “elongated circles” (what you’re calling a “stadium”), but I guess we ended up implementing a mix for some reason. Either shape is recognizable to Kentuckians, but the ovals are more common on maps that don’t display state-specific shields.

If we ever get around to addressing issues like rectangular shields looking far too big compared to custom shields, then the rounded rectangle and oval shields will also be impacted. Even among maps that apply a generic state route shield, ovals tend to be less compact. That said, the current rounded rectangle implementation doesn’t represent the elongated circle faithfully, because the corner radius isn’t large enough.

@claysmalley
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Using a 9px radius instead looks a lot more circley. Though we still have issues with clipping (#301), and at 100% zoom, there's a lot of extra whitespace around the numeral.

Screenshot from 2022-05-14 16-44-30 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 16-44-43

@zekefarwell
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In my opinion, this distinction is not worth keeping. All of these networks are just as recognizable if we stick to one shape for shields with 3 or more digits. I think ovals look better than stadiums for these cases.

I was arguing the same "standarize on one shape" line in #117 back in January, though I was pushing for elongated circles at the time. However, with many shield designs moving closer to the real world signs and farther from abstract representation, I suppose I'm perfectly happy to see the slight distinction between ovals and elongated circles matching real world usage. This is a map style by and for road geeks after all.

@claysmalley
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I'm perfectly happy to see the slight distinction between ovals and elongated circles matching real world usage. This is a map style by and for road geeks after all.

Good point. I'm okay with keeping this distinction, though this still leaves one question. Which design should we use for circles that don't expand for 3 digits? It looks like geometric stadiums were agreed upon for Iowa, New Mexico and secondary Virginia, but I introduced ovals for the Virgin Islands in #250. Whatever we decide upon, I just want to make sure it's consistent.

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Which design should we use for circles that don't expand for 3 digits?

There are states that just cram a 3 digit number into a circle? 😱Heathens! I think we can all agree that deviating from real world shields in these cases with a wide variant is a good idea. Bit of a toss up, but I guess I'd say go with the geometric stadiums/elongated circles. What do others think?

@1ec5
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1ec5 commented May 14, 2022

Either way, West Virginia county routes will need some special attention once we get around to fixing #13:

oval elongated circle

CR 20/67 guide sign

@claysmalley
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Shields originally stadium-shaped now have 9px corners as demonstrated above, and New Mexico has a new stadium-shaped Zia symbol:

Screenshot from 2022-05-14 20-11-52 Screenshot from 2022-05-14 20-12-05

@claysmalley claysmalley changed the title Change rounded rectangle shields with 8px radius to circle shields Adjust radius of stadium-shaped shields and replace New Mexico shield May 15, 2022
@claysmalley
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American road atlases seem to heavily prefer geometric stadiums over ellipses, so I guess it makes sense to go with that. Though for the record, one state crams four digits inside a Zia symbol inside a circle:

@claysmalley claysmalley force-pushed the shield-conflate-circles branch 2 times, most recently from 2e58d4b to 0c45cef Compare May 15, 2022 01:45
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1ec5 commented May 15, 2022

The two NMDOT maps I have are no help: one stuffs three digits into a circle, while the other crams three digits into a Zia symbol.

NMDOT 2010 NMDOT 2010 compact

@ZeLonewolf
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The Zia spikes seem to blend in with the backdrop a bit, do they need some kind of halo?

@claysmalley
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Would we be applying a halo to the whole shield, or just the spikes? Either way, it'd be the first shield with a halo effect, and I worry it wouldn't look good in context.

@zekefarwell
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Shields with light text on a dark background, like the interstate shields, have halos. It definitely helps them stand out better when they have low contrast with objects below. This one would be the first dark text on light background with a halo. Seems worth seeing what it would look like at least.

@ZeLonewolf
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We don't have many shields that are red on the outside. Offhand maybe one of the Yukon ones, but they barely have roads to conflict with up there 😂. To me, the red outline has a not-great contrast with charcoal or red roads. Though I acknowledge that this is probably also a problem on the existing map.

@claysmalley
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Demo with white halo:

Screenshot from 2022-05-16 17-06-18
Screenshot from 2022-05-16 17-06-05

@ZeLonewolf
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I think this looks good!

@claysmalley
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A cursory internet search indicates that the Zia Pueblo cares a lot about the usage of this symbol by non-natives (see PDF). While they don't own a trademark over the symbol, they do request that others ask for their permission before using it.

I can't find anything that says the New Mexico Department of Transportation's usage of the Zia symbol on highway shields is respectfully permitted. I'm hesitant to assume that the Zia symbol on highway shields is condoned, and regardless, I'd still like to ask permission before incorporating it into a new project.

I'll do some research on who to ask and how.

@claysmalley claysmalley marked this pull request as draft May 17, 2022 00:53
@claysmalley claysmalley changed the title Adjust radius of stadium-shaped shields and replace New Mexico shield Add Zia sun symbol for New Mexico shield May 20, 2022
@ZeLonewolf
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Need to resolve conflicts

@claysmalley claysmalley force-pushed the shield-conflate-circles branch 2 times, most recently from 1a8f47a to 10a027e Compare June 17, 2022 01:05
@claysmalley
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Here's an email to the Zia Pueblo I've got drafted:

Hello,

I'm writing on behalf of the OpenStreetMap (OSM) community in the United States, as well as the maintainer team of OSM-Americana. OSM [1] is a freely editable online map run by a nonprofit organization (comparable to Wikipedia, but for maps), and OSM-Americana [2] is a map style being built by a team of mostly US-based volunteer mappers.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/35.4938/-106.7318
[2] https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana/#13.35/35.50421/-106.7224

We've chosen to emulate a road atlas style familiar to a US audience for OSM-Americana, and we attempt to display route shields similar to their real-life appearance, where other OSM styles just put the route number in a rectangle. In the examples given above, OSM shows "US 550" in a rectangle, but OSM-Americana has "550" inside the actual white badge shape you'd see on the road. We'd like to have recognizable shields on state routes as well, including New Mexico.

Of course, the Zia sun symbol is used on state route shields in New Mexico. While researching these shields, we found out about the cultural significance of this symbol, but we couldn't find anything saying the New Mexico Department of Transportation's decision to use it had any input from the Zia Pueblo. And if NMDOT never sought permission to use the symbol, it wouldn't be right for us to decide to use it. So, to clarify, we have a few questions:

  1. Was the Zia Pueblo ever consulted when the New Mexico Department of Transportation decided to use the sun symbol for state route shields? Are there any problems with NMDOT's usage of the symbol?

  2. If NMDOT's usage of the sun symbol on state route shields is acceptable, is it okay for us to use it in OSM-Americana to represent New Mexico state routes? Are there any considerations about the dimensions and position of the circle and the 16 rays?

Regards,
Clay Smalley

Thoughts, additions, objections?

@1ec5
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1ec5 commented Jun 21, 2022

Since you’re linking to the demo page, consider emphasizing that it’s still a work in progress. After all, this style isn’t showing any reservation boundaries yet: #105.

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Replacing the paragraph after the links:

Note that OSM-Americana is a work in progress. In the examples given above, aboriginal land boundaries (as a global concept, including, but not limited to, Indian Reservations in the US) are shown on OSM, but we are still working on adding support for them in OSM-Americana, and we hope to have them on the map before we publicly release it.

We've chosen to emulate a road atlas style familiar to a US audience for OSM-Americana, and we attempt to display route shields similar to their real-life appearance where other OSM styles just put the route number in a rectangle. For example, OSM shows "US 550" in a rectangle, but OSM-Americana has "550" inside the actual white badge shape you'd see on the road. We'd like to have recognizable shields on state routes as well, including New Mexico.

@claysmalley
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Here's the final version I sent:

Hello,

I'm writing on behalf of the OpenStreetMap (OSM) community in the United States, as well as the maintainer team of OSM-Americana. OSM [1] is a freely editable online map run by a nonprofit organization (comparable to Wikipedia, but for maps), and OSM-Americana [2] is a map style based on OSM being built by a team of mostly US-based volunteer mappers. We'd like to know more about the Zia Pueblo's perspective on the usage of the sun symbol on New Mexico state route signage, and whether it's appropriate for us to replicate that signage in OSM-Americana.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/35.4938/-106.7318
[2] https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana/#13.35/35.50421/-106.7224

Note that OSM-Americana is a work in progress. In the examples given above, aboriginal land boundaries (as a global concept, including, but not limited to, Indian Reservations in the US) are shown on OSM, but we are still working on adding support for them in OSM-Americana, and we hope to have them on the map before we publicly release it.

We've chosen to emulate a road atlas style familiar to a US audience for OSM-Americana, and we attempt to display route shields similar to their real-life appearance where other OSM styles just put the route number in a rectangle. For example, OSM shows "US 550" in a rectangle, but OSM-Americana has "550" inside the actual white badge shape you'd see on the road. We'd like to have recognizable shields on state routes as well, including those in New Mexico (currently represented by a red circle).

Of course, the Zia sun symbol is used on state route shields in New Mexico. While researching these shields, we found out about the cultural significance of this symbol, but we couldn't find anything saying the New Mexico Department of Transportation's decision to use it had any input from the Zia Pueblo. And if NMDOT never sought permission to use the symbol, it wouldn't be appropriate for us to perpetuate such a mistake. So, to clarify, we have a few questions:

  1. Was the Zia Pueblo ever consulted when the New Mexico Department of Transportation decided to use the sun symbol for state route shields? Are there any problems with NMDOT's usage of the symbol?

  2. If NMDOT's usage of the sun symbol on state route shields is acceptable, would it be okay for us to use it similarly in OSM-Americana to represent New Mexico state routes? Are there any rules or guidelines about the size and position of the circle and the 16 rays?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Regards,
Clay Smalley

@ZeLonewolf
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How long should we wait for a response?

@claysmalley
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I'm not sure. Maybe we could call the tribe? They have a phone number listed at the bottom of their contact page.

@ZeLonewolf
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I'm comfortable with the email reach-out being sufficient and following NMDOT's lead if you want to proceed with this.

@claysmalley
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I re-sent the email. If I don't get a response in a week or so, I'll try calling them. Failing that, I'll close this PR—I think it's important for us to be certain that NMDOT is using this symbol with respect and permission before replicating it on a digital map.

@ZeLonewolf
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There seems to be a request form here:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5cd0597b0cf57d0b7478c56a/t/657b6196a2e8a0581e072e64/1702584726764/Zia+Sun+Symbol+Request+Form+PDF+2023.pdf

It is linked from this page: https://www.ziapueblo.org/

@claysmalley
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I've resent the email to info@ziapueblo.org, with the form and a few example screenshots attached.

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claysmalley commented Apr 29, 2024

Good news! The Zia Pueblo has generously granted us permission to use the Sun Symbol. Full response (with personal info and payment details redacted):

April 29, 2024

Clay Smalley
OpenStreetMap Americana

Dear Mr. Smalley,

On behalf of the Pueblo of Zia, we hereby grant you permission to use our most sacred Zia Sun Symbol, as you had requested for business to create digital maps. I would also like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation for your generous donation of $50.00 to the Pueblo of Zia Scholarship Fund.

I would also like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to the Pueblo of Zia, to request permission for the use of our Zia Sun Symbol.

Sincerely,

Delbert Pino
Lt. Governor
Pueblo of Zia

I'll just need to resolve some conflicts, and this PR will be ready.


Edit (2024-11-26):

If you're reading this and you'd like to donate to the Zia Pueblo as well, they accept checks mailed to:

Governor – Pueblo of Zia
135 Capitol Square Dr
Zia Pueblo, NM 87053

Checks should be made out to the Pueblo of Zia Scholarship Fund. If your bank app requires the payee's phone number, it's (505) 867-3304.

@claysmalley claysmalley marked this pull request as ready for review April 29, 2024 22:37
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Looks great!

image

image

@claysmalley claysmalley merged commit 5e76ca1 into main Apr 30, 2024
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@claysmalley claysmalley deleted the shield-conflate-circles branch April 30, 2024 12:29
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