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Source code for 3.9.0 missing? #590

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emou opened this issue May 14, 2019 · 18 comments

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@emou
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commented May 14, 2019

The osxfuse-3.9.0 tag shows an empty directory:
https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse/tree/osxfuse-3.9.0

Checking out with git also produces an empty directory.
The archives from there releases page are also empty, i.e. https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse/archive/osxfuse-3.9.0.zip

@bfleischer bfleischer self-assigned this May 14, 2019
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commented May 14, 2019

That's on purpose. If you are using FUSE for macOS for a commercial software project, feel free to contact me via email. You can find my email on my GitHub page.

@bfleischer bfleischer closed this May 14, 2019
@compuguy

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commented May 15, 2019

@bfleischer So the source code to 3.9.0 will not be released?

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commented May 15, 2019

@compuguy For now I will not release the source code. To make a long story short, I cannot keep working on FUSE for free. I've been asking for financial support for three years, but nothing much came of it. Moving forward with FUSE is only possible if enough companies are willing to pay for the continued development. Please contact me via email, if you are using FUSE for macOS for a commercial software project.

@michaellass michaellass referenced this issue Jun 13, 2019
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@pmetzger

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commented Jun 13, 2019

Just FYI, the result of this is that MacPorts is going to stay on the previous version and I suspect other people are going to fork it. I don't think this is a viable plan for you.

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commented Jun 13, 2019

@pmetzger Existing versions of FUSE will work on MacOS X 10.5 to macOS 10.14. As a matter of fact, none of the versions supports macOS 10.15. Forking FUSE is certainly possible and, if you like, you can go ahead and do so. It would be great to have a second developer working on FUSE. Please keep in mind that you will need a certificate for signing the FUSE kernel extensions. Even certificate applications by well-known cloud storage providers are being rejected by Apple. As a matter of fact, MacPorts already installs the binary kernel extensions built and signed by me on Mac OS X 10.9 and above. How is that different from the current situation?

That being said, I would prefer to release the source code. But I need funding and I won't get any if the FUSE source code is available for free, even for commercial use. I have talked to many companies but without much success. Do you have a better suggestion for solving this dilemma?

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commented Jun 13, 2019

Please keep in mind that you will need a certificate for signing the FUSE kernel extensions

And? That's hardly a big deal. I've been paying for a "real" developer account for many years now. It's not an impediment. MacPorts could get such a thing itself for the organization; it has friends at Apple. But I will have to think about how much I care about this. It might be easier to simply stop using the tool entirely.

Do you have a better suggestion for solving this dilemma?

You might not be able to solve it, but alienating your potential supporters could very well make it impossible to make any progress, as well as hurting your own reputation. There are no guarantees that any path will get you enough money to work on this, of course. However, some methods are pretty much guaranteed to sabotage your efforts. I would say that the current path is one of them. People get very irritable about such things. There are more and less appropriate ways to get people to pay attention to you; this is not one of the more appropriate ones.

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commented Jun 13, 2019

And? That's hardly a big deal.

Try applying for a kernel extension singing certificate. That's not the standard Developer ID certificate every registered developer gets. Then when you maintained a project like FUSE for macOS alone for eight years we may talk again. Have you ever written a single line of kernel code or debugged a massively parallel file system? Trust me, that's a big deal.

If you chose to stop distributing FUSE for macOS and thereby all FUSE-based file systems through MacPorts, that's your decision and I respect it. I won't patronize you for it, like you are doing here. Luckily there are alternatives, Homebrew distributes the latest version of FUSE for macOS.

You might not be able to solve it, but alienating your potential supporters could very well make it impossible to make any progress, as well as hurting your own reputation.

Let me worry about my reputation. There were two alternatives: Raise funds to continue working on FUSE or abandon the project. I believe the option I chose is the better one. Don't you?

@compuguy

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commented Jun 13, 2019

@bfleischer At a minimum, the fact that osxfuse is no longer open source (nor will the source code be provided) should be notated in the README.md.

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commented Jun 16, 2019

Have you ever written a single line of kernel code

Yes. I've written a ton of kernel code. But this is irrelevant — it's an ad hominem. It makes no difference to my argument if I've never written a line of any sort of code.

Oh, and let me note that ad hominem attacks only make it much less likely that you will ever get what you want. Who would want to raise money to help someone who insults people?

If I decide osxfuse is important enough to me, I will work on finding another maintainer.

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commented Jun 16, 2019

I've been asking for pretty much any form of support for years. FUSE needs a lot of work to get where it should be. Many parts of the code are old and need to be rewritten to add support for new features or getting rid of performance bottlenecks. Most parts of the FUSE kernel extension are more than a decade old. We still don't have libfuse 3 support for macOS. The Objective-C framework does not even use ARC, protocols, or blocks. It's still based on the Objective-C 1.0 runtime. The VFS plugin still uses exclusive locks instead of read-write locks. The list goes on and on.

This is simply too much work for one person in addition to a full-time job. In other words, I either need to find more time to work on FUSE or more developers need to join me in working on FUSE for macOS. This is exactly what I've been asking for for years. I did not stop releasing the source code because I'm greedy. I did it because nothing else I tried over the years to get the necessary attention worked. That's why I asked if you could suggest another path. Continuing like the years before does no longer work.

Reputation is not important. I stand behind my actions. And I will explain my reasons to everyone who asks. All I care about it that FUSE on macOS lives on. And I will do everything I can to ensure this. That's what I've been working on all these years.

@pmetzger I never insulted anyone. At least that has never been my intention. However, you never asked for my reasons for stopping to release the source code, but attacked me from the start. You are telling others I might take FUSE offline in a fit of pique (macports/macports-ports#4601) without ever having spoken a word to me. Then you continue by belittling what I have been working on for years and talk down to me. This is the very definition of being impolite and hostile.

By the way, asking you if you have ever written a line of kernel code is not irrelevant. Many people think developing a kernel extension is not that much different form writing a simple app. Someone who has written kernel code knows that it is a whole different story.

@vgough

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commented Jun 17, 2019

Certainly this change of status warrants a mention in the README? I came here to diagnose an error, only to be very confused that the source here does not match what is installed. I don't have an opinion at the moment on what development model is best, but I find it disturbing that the source / licensing status isn't mentioned at all. If you're looking for support, it would also help to mention the form of support you'd like in the README.

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commented Jun 18, 2019

This is simply too much work for one person in addition to a full-time job

Then drop it and let someone else maintain it.

@compuguy

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commented Jun 25, 2019

Do you have a Patreon account (or with an equivalent service)? I'm sure there are users out there that would like to contribute to the continuing development of osxfuse @bfleischer.

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commented Jul 2, 2019

Patreon and similar crowdfunding services do not work for me. It's complicated and I don't want to bore you with the details. There are some tax-related issues in Germany. If Plus3 IT would like to support my work, there is no need to go through Patreon, simply contact me by email.

@pmetzger

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commented Jul 3, 2019

So you're upset that no one is supporting you, but you've provided no obvious way for normal people to support you? And it's "complicated" why you can't use a crowdfunding site?

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commented Jul 3, 2019

@pmetzger I've never complained about normal people not supporting the project and I will never ask end users for financial support. FUSE will always be free. However, what I'm asking for is for companies, that are selling FUSE-based products or rebrand FUSE and bundle it with their apps, to re-invest some of the profits in the continued development of FUSE on macOS, if they can afford it. I don't think that is unreasonable.

@compuguy

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commented Jul 3, 2019

When I asked you @bfleischer if you had a Patreon (or Ko-fi, etc), I was speaking for myself, not my current employer (my current employer doesn't sell or bundle osxfuse). I am just an end user of osxfuse.

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commented Jul 3, 2019

However, what I'm asking for is for companies, that are selling FUSE-based products or rebrand FUSE and bundle it with their apps, to re-invest some of the profits in the continued development of FUSE on macOS, if they can afford it.

How would any of them even know how to do that if they're unaware you want help and provide no mechanism by which they can help you? (If you are providing such a mechanism, it's well enough hidden not to be obvious even if someone is deliberately looking for it.)

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