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08:49 -!- Hugues_ [52eacbde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.22.214.171.124] has joined #phpmyadmin 08:49 < Hugues_> Hi everyone. 08:49 < ibennetch> I can run the meeting and post the log 08:49 < ibennetch> Hello Hugues_ 08:51 -!- nisargjh|cloud is now known as nisargjhaveri 08:52 < Marc9> Hi Hugues 08:52 < Marc9> Hi nijel 08:52 -!- Voovode [~Alex@tenatena.static.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54 < Hugues_> :) 08:55 < ibennetch> The monthly phpMyAdmin developer meeting will begin in 5 minutes 08:56 < Marc9> ibennetch thanks for taking care of these tasks 08:57 < ibennetch> :) 08:59 -!- madhuracj [~email@example.com] has joined #phpmyadmin 08:59 < Marc9> Hi Madhura 09:00 < ibennetch> The monthly phpMyAdmin developer meeting will begin now. The meeting is logged and posted to wiki.phpmyadmin.net. Welcome. 09:00 < ibennetch> Our first item is the caching RFE 09:00 < madhuracj> Hi Marc 09:00 -!- nijel [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01 < ibennetch> Any discussion of this? 09:01 < Marc9> Obviously I am in favor ;) 09:01 < ibennetch> :) 09:01 < madhuracj> I'm also in favor even though I can think of new things to cache right now 09:01 < madhuracj> cant* 09:02 < Hugues_> I'm in favor too. 09:02 < ibennetch> It seems useful to improve this. Are you interested in working on it Marc9 ? 09:02 < Marc9> At least, we could test if it helps to use memcached 09:02 < Marc9> Yes I am interested 09:03 -!- nisargjhaveri is now known as nisargjh|cloud 09:03 < Hugues_> More than test, it would be useful to have performance measures (link to next point). 09:03 < ibennetch> In that case I would say go ahead and see what you can find and improve. Seems like a useful enhancement. 09:03 -!- nisargjh|cloud is now known as nisargjhaveri 09:03 < Marc9> Hugues good point 09:03 -!- nijelmobile [~email@example.com] has joined #phpmyadmin 09:03 < ibennetch> I guess we can move ahead to the next item? 09:04 < ibennetch> Hello nijelmobile 09:04 < Hugues_> Let's move. 09:04 < nijelmobile> hi, my network connection sucks today, using phone... 09:05 < ibennetch> Performance and profiling. This seems like something useful for debugging and developer use, of course I don't think we need to profile every user's entire session. 09:05 < ibennetch> I don't know about any external profiler that would help here -- it probably exists, I just don't know about any 09:06 < Marc9> First, is there a general feeling that version 4 is slower than 3? 09:06 < Hugues_> Indeed, there are some. Like xdebug. 09:07 < madhuracj> @Marc9 It's been a long since I used version 3. Probably need to go back and compare them side by side 09:07 < ibennetch> I don't have that feeling, but haven't used 3 in some time so it's hard to compare. I think the AJAX loading of 4 makes it seem slower sometimes, rather than waiting for an entire page to load we're looking at a spinner. 09:07 < Hugues_> And so I'm not sure that we should implement somethink about this. Even if it would be useful... But I think that we have to see the benefit regarding to the effort to implement it. 09:07 < ibennetch> This seems slower even when it's actually the same amount of time. 09:07 < Marc9> I tend to favor using an external profiler, rather than adding hooks 09:08 -!- nijel [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #phpmyadmin 09:08 < Hugues_> Agree with Marc. 09:08 < madhuracj> Agreed 09:08 < nijel> Using external profiler sounds better indeed 09:09 < Hugues_> Maybe, the day will use a framework like Zend or Symfony, we could think about this. 09:09 < Marc9> So, for example, someone could use xdebug to produce profiling data for a known task, and compare version 3.5 to 4.4 09:09 < madhuracj> I would like to configure xdebug and give it a try to see if version 4 is slower than 3 09:09 < Marc9> Madhura thanks for volunteering 09:10 < madhuracj> May be then we can decide whether any action is required 09:10 < Hugues_> Maybe the tests should be done on some defined pages. 09:10 < Marc9> I suggest using a sample database like sakila and some known tasks 09:10 < Hugues_> (I hope this is not linked to multibytes management...) 09:10 < nijel> yes, checking things like browsing table, editing record or table structure... 09:10 < madhuracj> Probably choose a set of frequenly used functionalities 09:11 < Marc9> Hugues it might be, but the profiling report will tell us 09:11 < Hugues_> I agree. :) 09:11 < ibennetch> Any more discussion on this? If not we can move on to double-click renaming 09:12 < Hugues_> Who would be in charge of this part ? 09:12 < Hugues_> Ah, Madhura. Thanks. 09:12 < madhuracj> :) 09:13 < ibennetch> About double-click renaming, as a user this is not something I would use. 09:13 < Marc9> Double-click renaming feels to me more like a non-essential feature 09:14 < ibennetch> I'm more likely to accidentally double click something than intend to rename my tables often. 09:14 < ibennetch> I feel this is a rare need and better handled by our existing means. 09:14 < madhuracj> I'm also not in favor of this feature 09:14 < Hugues_> Yes... I don't think that table and field's names are really ofter changed. 09:14 < nijel> I agree with Hugues_, it's not really something frequently done 09:15 < Hugues_> And I often double-clic to copy/paste... 09:15 < Marc9> Also, it would have to be implemented in both panels 09:15 < ibennetch> Marc9: thanks for helping with updating the tracker as we go along 09:15 < Hugues_> It would be disturbing indeed. 09:15 < ibennetch> Okay, so no one seems to be in favor at this time. 09:15 < Marc9> and in the main panel, we already have the click on column headers to sort, etc 09:16 < ibennetch> yes, click/double click/right click/alt-click is quite overloaded already :) 09:16 < ibennetch> Okay then, "Select from previously used table or column names" 09:16 < madhuracj> Looks like an edge case to me 09:17 < Marc9> For this one, I believe that copying/pasting an on-screen text is enough 09:17 < ibennetch> I'm having trouble figuring out what the user wants, is this in the SQL window? 09:17 < Hugues_> I don't really catch the need here. 09:17 < Marc9> Ibennetch it's in the table creation dialog 09:18 < ibennetch> Oh, okay. Then the browser autocomplete should suggest previously used names :D 09:18 < Marc9> ibennetch good point 09:18 < ibennetch> I see how it would help this user, but don't think we should do this. 09:19 < Hugues_> Really ? 09:19 < Hugues_> Shouldn't we fill the autocomplete dictionary? 09:20 -!- nijelmobile [~email@example.com] has quit [Quit: AtomicIRC: The nuclear option.] 09:20 < Marc9> Hugues, this is not for the SQL query box with codemirror 09:20 < ibennetch> Hugues_: I think you're interpreting my two statements as being connected, but I didn't mean that. 09:20 < ibennetch> I mean "I see how implementing this feature would help this user, but don't want to implement it" rather than "we shouldn't allow the browser to autocomplete" 09:20 < ibennetch> I _think_ that's the misunderstanding? 09:21 < Hugues_> Thanks Marc9 , I see my mistake. 09:21 < ibennetch> Great, so no one thinks we should implement this one, either. 09:22 < ibennetch> Don't group tables 09:22 < ibennetch> in the tree if the result has only one group" 09:22 < Hugues_> No... Copy/paste is not a big deal and can solve this issue. 09:23 < ibennetch> I think it makes sense to not group if there is only one table/database -- but I don't recall whether this is easy to do in the navigation logic 09:23 < Hugues_> Don't group are open the group by default ? 09:23 < Marc9> about having just one group, I don't see a problem here 09:23 < Hugues_> Don't group or open the group by default? (Sorry for the mistake...) 09:24 < Hugues_> If we don't group, where would be displayed the DB name? 09:24 < Marc9> Hugues_, Olaf does not want to have a group here 09:25 < Marc9> He would like to just see the table names without grouping 09:25 < nijel> don't group if there is just one group 09:25 < Marc9> The DB name is already displayed 09:27 < Marc9> Not grouping here would be inconsistent and we would get a RFE to bring it back 09:27 < madhuracj> I'm undecided on this. I see his point. But wouln't this be confusing where at one place it is grouped and another place it is not 09:27 < Marc9> madhuracj exactly 09:27 < ibennetch> ^^^ this. What madhuracj said is exactly what I think also 09:27 < Hugues_> I agree. 09:28 < Marc9> another won't fix ;) 09:28 < nijel> would not be better to provide easy way to disable groupping through user prefs? 09:29 < Marc9> nijel but he still wants grouping in other cases 09:30 < ibennetch> "dear Olaf, I secretly agree with you but don't want to fix it in order to maintain a consistent user interface for less experienced users" 09:32 < ibennetch> Okay, having thought about it for a few minutes, I propose that we fix it as suggested by Olaf and add a note to the documentation that "when enabled but only one "grouped" database/table is present, grouping is temporarily removed for that database" or something like that. 09:32 < ibennetch> I think it makes the interface cleaner if we implement his suggestion. 09:32 < nijel> I agree with ibennetch 09:33 < Hugues_> If not too expensive, OK. 09:34 < ibennetch> So just to be clear that's three yes answers, and what about the rest? 09:35 < madhuracj> I agree with Hugues. Let's see after inspecting the underlying code as well 09:35 < ibennetch> Good point about checking the cost 09:36 < Marc9> I have no objection 09:36 < ibennetch> Okay, thanks. Moving on to bringing back "Display binary as hex/string" 09:37 < Marc9> Madhura did you have a look at implementing this? 09:38 < ibennetch> From a user perspecitve I definetely think we should do this. From a project standpoint, I'm not sure how difficult it actually is 09:38 < madhuracj> Briefly. 09:38 < madhuracj> I had a look at the commit that removed it and was wondering whether it contained additional things 09:39 < ibennetch> I think Chirayu can probably comment on the code although I don't think he's here now. 09:39 < madhuracj> I thought Chirayu would know better about this 09:39 -!- Irssi: #phpmyadmin: Total of 38 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 37 normal] 09:39 < Marc9> It's a too-part commit that removed a feature to add another one 09:39 < Marc9> I was expecting the presence of Chirayu at the meeting 09:40 < madhuracj> Anyways, I'm in favor of this RFE 09:40 < ibennetch> Are there any objections outright to bringing this back? Aside from concerns about messing up data, etc? 09:40 < Marc9> Yes, I don't think we have a choice here, the user has a valid point 09:40 < ibennetch> If not, I propose we accept it, ask Chirayu for input on the mailing list, and see what happens. 09:41 < Hugues_> I agree, this is quite useful even for us at work. 09:42 < ibennetch> Okay, it seems we all realize this is a good idea to bring back, it's just a matter of figuring out whether it's possible and actually doing it. 09:42 < ibennetch> Marc, could you email the list and ask Chirayu for input, either on list or in the tracker directly (whichever you think is better)? 09:42 < Marc9> will do 09:43 < ibennetch> thanks 09:43 < ibennetch> Group databases and tables by regex 09:43 < ibennetch> This seems like it would be very complex to do, which is what Madhura also found when examining it. I'd say no. 09:44 < Marc9> I would also say no, especially since it was asked a long time ago 09:44 < madhuracj> I thought its benefits are not worth the complexity it brings 09:45 < Hugues_> It will lead to new performance issues. 09:45 < Hugues_> Here, I'm not convinced of the benefit. 09:45 < ibennetch> Okay, great. 09:45 < ibennetch> One more: add a configuration directive for logo_left 09:46 < ibennetch> The user is implementing a custom theme and wants to make the logo a user-configurable option. 09:47 < madhuracj> I feel we already have zillions of configurations and I am not in favor 09:47 < Hugues_> I understand the need, but so... why shouldn't we provide a full theme tool? 09:48 < Marc9> Hugues, let me guess ... lack of manpower? 09:48 < ibennetch> I definetely don't want more configuration options, either. I think this is beyond the scope of what themes were meant to do. 09:48 < Hugues_> Yes, that the point ! 09:48 < Hugues_> If we start with this, we'll be asked more graphic options. 09:49 < Marc9> I don't see a valid reason to make this configurable 09:50 < Marc9> Hugues I understood that you were proposing such a tool 09:50 < Hugues_> So let's say "no"? 09:50 < Marc9> We can explain that we feel this is an edge case 09:51 < ibennetch> I agree that we can say no to this 09:52 < Marc9> ibennetch can you reply in the PR with the explanation and close it? 09:52 < ibennetch> Sure 09:52 < madhuracj> Hugues, can you propose the theme tool in more detail as a RFE or a GSoC idea . 09:53 < ibennetch> I believe that's it for the agenda, then, and seven minutes early, too :) 09:53 < Hugues_> Oh... That wasn't the aim of the question, but if you think this is a good idea, yes, I can do this. 09:53 < madhuracj> Yes, I am interested 09:53 < Hugues_> I'll add this as a RFE. 09:54 < madhuracj> Thanks 09:54 < ibennetch> Okay, then I declare the official meeting over. Thank you all for coming 09:54 -!- Irssi: #phpmyadmin: Total of 38 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 37 normal] 09:54 < Hugues_> Thanks. 09:54 < Marc9> Bye all and thanks ibennetch for running the meeting 09:55 < Hugues_> See you.
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