07:54 < ibennetch> Hello!
07:55 < ibennetch> The weekly phpMyAdmin developer meeting will begin in five minutes.
07:56 < ibennetch> Meeting agenda: https://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/2016-04_Meeting
07:58 -!- DevenB [b4d7a80f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.127.116.11] has joined #phpmyadmin
07:58 < ibennetch> Hi DevenB
07:59 < DevenB> Hi ibennetch
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08:00 -!- AndroidUser is now known as udan11
08:00 < udan11> Hello
08:00 < ibennetch> Hi udan11
08:01 < ibennetch> Let's begin. First up is the donations to Conservancy.
08:01 < ibennetch> On the email thread we briefly discussed making annual supporters out of each team member, which I propose we do.
08:02 < ibennetch> That's 5 x $120
08:02 < DevenB> I am in favor of the proposal. How much should be the amount ?
08:02 < udan11> Sounds fine, but I do not know too much about the funds of the organisation
08:02 < ibennetch> Well, at least $120 is the minimum. Last year we also donated the same amount in the fall.
08:02 < ibennetch> udan11: ours or Conservancy?
08:03 < udan11> Ours
08:04 < ibennetch> Ah, fair question. Michal probably has more updated numbers than me but we have enough in reserves that donating a few hundred for Conservancy is not a burden.
08:05 < DevenB> Then I think the amount proposed seems okay. We may reconsider/revise it based on our numbers next year. What do you think ?
08:05 < udan11> Sounds fine then.
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08:05 < nijel> Hello everybody
08:05 < nijel> I think donation for every member is just fine
08:06 < DevenB> Hi nijel
08:07 < ibennetch> I think last year we split the donations and did half the team in April and the other half in November. This year we can do all at once, if we prefer.
08:07 < ibennetch> 5x$120 now (in April, anyway).
08:08 < nijel> as for the funds, we have something like $70k (that probably doesn't count recent new sponsors)
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08:08 < ibennetch> (remembering that Conservancy also gets a percentage of each donation to our project)
08:09 < ibennetch> Hi madhuracj
08:09 < madhuracj> Hi ibennetch. Sorry about my delay.
08:09 < ibennetch> Well let's put it to a vote, then, about donating 5 x $120 to Conservancy now and we'll revisit this topic again in March 2017.
08:09 < ibennetch> No worries we're still on the first topic, as you see
08:09 < nijel> ok
08:09 < ibennetch> I vote yes.
08:10 < DevenB> I am in favor.
08:10 < udan11> Me too
08:10 < madhuracj> In favor
08:11 < ibennetch> Great, nijel could you contact Conservancy about this?
08:11 < nijel> yes, will do that
08:11 < ibennetch> Moving on to GSoC, we're of course disappointed not to be selected but it sounds like they are just trying to work in new organizations.
08:13 < madhuracj> Running out own is not a good idea IMO, considering the admin oand other verheads
08:13 < ibennetch> Is anyone interested in any other program instead? I'm not aware of many, Conservancy runs their very focused one but aside from that I'm not aware of any other large scale system.
08:13 < madhuracj> overheads*
08:13 < ibennetch> Right, I tend to agree, although there's something called bountysource that allows us to set up payment for specific goals (fix a bug, document something, etc -- whatever we set as a goal) which may be worth pursuing instead.
08:14 < udan11> Seems nice
08:14 < nijel> I tend to agree with administrative overhead for such program
08:14 < udan11> Afaik Nijel used it for weblate
08:14 < ibennetch> Okay, so we won't run our own.
08:14 < nijel> On the other side I still think we need something to attract new developers and I'm not sure if we can find some better approach
08:15 < nijel> As for Bountysource it's nice, but it never really worked for Weblate in this way, it was more for me to prioritize issues (once somebody is willing to put money on implementing something, he quite needs it)
08:16 < ibennetch> Maybe in the interest of moving ahead we should table the bountysource idea for now and come back to it later.
08:17 < ibennetch> I agree about trying to attract new developers but I don't have any suggestions on HOW to do that :\
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08:17 < ibennetch> Deven proposes moving the wiki to github wiki.
08:18 < udan11> This seems nice.
08:18 < udan11> Is there anyway to migrate?
08:18 < DevenB> I think the wiki is quite outdated at some places. We can either start updating on the website or move it to github completely.
08:19 < DevenB> I did not explicitly look it up, but I think we should be able to find out or build something. Or may be at last do it manually. if we can't find anything.
08:19 < DevenB> *if we agree
08:19 < ibennetch> I somewhat like hosting our own, but don't really have a good reason for that.
08:19 < nijel> I think most of the wiki should go to the documentation, it's really best place for anything end user targeted...
08:19 < ibennetch> I don't think migrating to Github will help with it going stale, and in some cases I've been working to remove outdated information.
08:19 < udan11> Maybe we can lock the old wiki and create new pages on github
08:20 < ibennetch> As nijel said, we should migrate most of that to the documentation anyway and the wiki should really just be for.....non end-user documentation type of things.
08:21 < DevenB> This seems fine too. Most of FAQs are already moved, I guess. Some specific technical issue-pages can remain in wiki (with slight updation if required).
08:21 < ibennetch> Now it's easier -- back when the wiki started, it was not a simple matter to contribute to editing documentation and the sourceforge trackers were let easy than the github issue tracker. Now a user can edit documentation without even having git installed locally.
08:22 < ibennetch> I think a lot of the problems with the wiki are "wiki problems" and not "self-hosted problems".
08:23 < ibennetch> Whether Github wiki makes more sense in the long run is still something we can discuss as far as workflow and integration goes, but I think the two issues aren't really related.
08:23 < ibennetch> I'll try to keep cleaning up the existing wiki, either way.
08:23 < nijel> On the other side moving wiki to GitHub makes it really easier:
08:23 < nijel> - it uses GitHub authentication, so it's probably easier to fight with spam there
08:24 < udan11> I consider the Github wiki easier to use
08:24 < nijel> - it's stored as git repository, so it's way easier to do some changes on more pages
08:25 < ibennetch> I don't really object to starting to migrate, but I don't feel a strong need to do it, either.
08:26 < ibennetch> I'm kind of on the fence about this one.
08:26 < madhuracj|2> I don't have a strong opinion either.
08:26 < ibennetch> Having a wiki in general is a good thing, but a lot of the ways we used it many years ago aren't needed anymore.
08:28 < ibennetch> Let's take a quick vote: who's in favor of switching to github wiki?
08:29 < nijel> I'm in favor, but it needs cleanup as well
08:29 < ibennetch> Which would be more of a manual process, copying relevant articles only.
08:29 < DevenB> I am in favor. (made more sense to me after nijel's point about spam prevention and others )
08:29 < udan11> I am in favor too
08:30 < ibennetch> Anyone who objects? I don't think so?
08:30 < madhuracj|2> No objection
08:30 < ibennetch> I propose that we start with small manual migration; put a few relevant articles on the github wiki and we can grow it from there.
08:30 < ibennetch> After a period of making sure we're all happy with how the migration has happened.
08:31 < ibennetch> Having an integrated sign on will be nice.
08:31 < ibennetch> We could start with some of the developer documentation.
08:31 < ibennetch> Anyone with anything else to say about this? If not we can move on.
08:31 < madhuracj|2> Sounds like to good plan
08:32 < ibennetch> Next up: officially voting to accept Atul's resignation. This is just a formality.
08:33 < ibennetch> I vote to accept with thanks to Atul for his work through the years and best wishes.
08:33 < madhuracj|2> I vote to accept as well
08:34 < DevenB> I vote to accept.
08:34 < nijel> I vode in favor as well
08:34 < nijel> ...vote...
08:34 < udan11> So do I
08:36 < ibennetch> Thanks to Atul.
08:36 < ibennetch> About the team meeting, it seems like only two can attend.
08:36 < ibennetch> And unlikely that we can find another site for 2016.
08:37 < ibennetch> Who has any comment about this?
08:37 < madhuracj|2> It would best if most of the team can attend the team meeting. So I think it's best to move it to 2017.
08:38 < DevenB> Makes sense.
08:38 < ibennetch> Does anyone think we should still send two members to DebConf this year?
08:39 < nijel> ...making it early in 2017, so it sounds like FOSDEM ;-)
08:39 < nijel> I don't mind sending two members to DebConf
08:40 < ibennetch> FOSDEM, DebConf, LinuxTag, and the PHP and MySQL conferences are really the best options I see.
08:40 < ibennetch> So there are two issues to discuss: whether to send people and where to have the next meeting.
08:41 < ibennetch> It was DevenB and udan11 for DebConf this year, right?
08:41 < madhuracj|2> I don't mind going to FOSDEM as well. But with two members it will not be a team meeting.
08:41 < madhuracj|2> I think it was me and Deven
08:42 < ibennetch> Ah, my mistake.
08:42 < udan11> :)
08:42 < ibennetch> It's still good exposure to send team members to represent the project at events even if it's not a true team meeting, which is why I have no problem doing so. But indeed it would not be much of a meeting
08:43 < madhuracj|2> DevenB Are you still interested in going to FOSDEM?
08:44 < ibennetch> As far as 2017, I think it's best to find conference dates and locations, then discuss on the mailing list.
08:45 < DevenB> I am unclear on my schedule for 2017, currently. But I can make it to DebConf.
08:45 < madhuracj|2> I meant DebConf in my previous question?
08:45 < nijel> ibennetch: I agree with doing 2017 planning on the mailing list
08:46 < ibennetch> I propose we send Deven and Madhura. Any further thoughts aside from voting about this?
08:47 < nijel> first of all these two should say if they are still interested in going there :-)
08:48 < madhuracj|2> I am still interested in going
08:48 < DevenB> I am, too.
08:48 < nijel> okay, I'm fine with it and planning proper meeting for 2017
08:52 < ibennetch> Okay, great, no more discussion about DebConf, then?
08:53 < ibennetch> 8 minutes remain in our scheduled time.
08:53 < ibennetch> nijel proposes that we might hire another contractor. I agree this would be great.
08:53 < nijel> okay, let's move on :-)
08:53 < madhuracj|2> I agree as well
08:53 < ibennetch> If anyone from the team is interested they could speak up now or by email to the team list. I don't know about posting it through Conservancy at thits point.
08:54 < ibennetch> *this*
08:54 < ibennetch> We could do that. Post through Conservancy and see what sort of responses we get. Perhaps a GSoC applicant or former team member would be interested.
08:55 < nijel> I will talk with Conservancy about this, I guess we can reuse stuff we have from last time....
08:55 < ibennetch> Sounds great. Thank you.
08:55 < ibennetch> One more topic, then: t-shirts.
08:55 < DevenB> I am interested, but I would be available only after September this year.
08:56 < nijel> DevenB: that's great to hear, I think September gives us enough time to handle it
08:56 < ibennetch> I'm just saying, but if we posted the listing and got a great application from an applicant who knows the code and has shown good potential but couldn't start until, oh, let's say September, I would not have a problem with that :)
08:57 < nijel> as for t-shirts only DevenB said he doesn't have one and wants one so far
08:57 < nijel> so this is really just to approve spending money on shipping t-shirts :-)
08:57 < ibennetch> If we start posting now, it might be up by May, and if we give 45 days on the deadline that's the middle of June, so a start date of September is perfectly reasonable.
08:57 < ibennetch> Then I vote to accept the cost
08:58 < ibennetch> Do you think we should hold off on the contractor posting for another month or two?
08:59 < nijel> I don't think we should hold it .. I think it will take month to process it though Conservancy ;-)
08:59 < ibennetch> Yes, I agree. Then when any applicant applies, they can state the start date they prefer.
09:00 < ibennetch> So action items from this week are mostly on nijel to discuss with Conservancy, except for the wiki which we'll start migrating.
09:00 < ibennetch> Great meeting everyone, I feel it was very productive.
09:00 < ibennetch> Thank you all for attending.
09:01 < madhuracj|2> For shipping t-shirts, I vote in favor
09:01 < madhuracj|2> Bye everyone
09:01 < nijel> Thanks everybody and see you in a month ;-)
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09:02 < DevenB> Thanks everyone and See you at the next meeting! :)
09:03 < udan11> Good bye!