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Added Asp_scout and CobraI to models\ships #1230

Closed
wants to merge 13 commits into from

8 participants

@SimonRinehart

LOD 1/2/3
gear
foot

diff emit spec pattern .mtl

@robn
Owner

Todo:

  • Add model script for Cobra
  • Add ship defs for both
  • Support vertex colours in .mtl materials (for gear)
  • Discuss relationship to existing Asp & Cobra models and what to do (I guess either rename these or remove the others)
SimonRinehart added some commits
@SimonRinehart SimonRinehart asset clean and add, 2 ships complete except for missile/hardpoint lo…
…cation and subjective tweaks to params.

possible rescaling needed later
1fb7581
@SimonRinehart SimonRinehart cobra Mk II e159460
@SimonRinehart SimonRinehart thruster reduction, ship def prepend
changed the figures then put them back based on Brianetta's original balance
5d14175
@SimonRinehart SimonRinehart added emit texture for engine cones
desaturated existing diffuse on engine cones
067df35
@SimonRinehart

ships ready

@Luomu Luomu referenced this pull request
Closed

Inconsistencies in Meteor #1234

@walterar

Testing Scout, and other things. http://youtu.be/wQh1xSZVDb8

@Ziusudra

The Asp Scout allows to fit a cargo scoop but will not be able to actually scoop cargo as it does not have a trigger surface on it's collision mesh.

See \data\models\ships\constrictor\constrictor.lua lines 810-812 or \data\models\ships\adder\adder.lua lines 543-545.

Also see #1128

@robn
Owner

max_cargoscoop defaults to 1, so if you don't explicitly drop it to 0 a ship will be able to fit one. It should probably default to 0 so you have to enable it at the same time as you add the collision surface. That's assuming we don't do #1128 and remove the collision surface entirely (and I think we should).

@walterar

I have not tried f3244f0 even by this:

  • map_Kd C:\Users\Simon\Documents\Project_ship\Asp\asp_diff.png

Is this right?

@Luomu
Owner

@SimonRinehart please scale the models in the modelling program and leave the scale in lua at 1, otherwise this looks fine

Just use sizes that are sensible (in meters), they don't have to fit with the current models in the game since the sizes are all over the place.

@walterar

scale = 2.5,
bounding_radius = 20,

Works for me.

@walterar

http://youtu.be/Cu_Sdfvmqec

The dimensions seem Ok. The engine flares seem small.

The landing gear appears to enter the ship without doors.

I see abrupt color changes. If you can not solve, we apply the law and highlight architecture. We call Scout Asp Chameleon? :))

I like for Alpha 23. 120t ships are needed.

The test continue.

@SimonRinehart

not sure about the color changes, that's perhaps a lighting issue in engine?

Didn't do doors for the landing gear as lua animation is messy and going to be removed soon. Concensus was these 'drop down' temporary gear would be fine in the meantime

@walterar

On your computer does not happen? I am working with linux 32. Anyone else see this? I will try different machines.

I'm just looking at the current aesthetic. Perhaps the same can be used as shoe covers.

I'm just a test pilot, but I want to see everything before you buy. :)

@robn
Owner

No, he meant he's not sure what's causing the color changes. We are able to reproduce, but haven't yet had chance to investigate properly.

@walterar

Google translate can cause inter-galactic conflict. :)

@gernot66

at least interterrestrial, walterar ;)

who want's to remove lua animation?
remove me to then ;)
DX is rubbish, sorry that io have to say that, but it's only "state of the art" because of monopolism and NOT because it's non plus ultra.
some people buy only "brands" and believe that this is better, i believe "brands" only empty my wallet.
well, if you never like to learn how the shit works then stay to DX meshes and give the obulus to MS.
further i grant you anyone who made animations scripted will make better animations even with a CAD, understanding the very basics is always a advantage. if you don't do, you make such bad animations like some of the FFED3D ships have, because you don't know what the machine does, have no idea that a CAD works with many correctional data to help you and you wonder why the shit didn't works in the game as expected, because the exported model contains none of the correctional data.
but a "asshole" like me who cluttered DX meshes apart, who inspected every line in there, well...
"here we have parallels, this i knew from..., aha, that's why" and so on ;)
got a problem? a part sticks in the "air" where it shouldn't? i can tell you the reason.
but if you work only with MAX you know a shit about that.

apart from that a beautiful ship, to sad you haven't call me up helping animating the landing gear.
it's my speciality.

perhaps git is "messy" for me, but animations in lua? let me see...
one afternoon and flaps and wheels will work like you expect. besides i can show you how that works, but i guess i'm simply to minor to be asked for it, not my fault friends.

and if one would have listened just a little to "gernötli" he would knew mat.lib never worked good with materials.
the color changes are fom using material settings in matlib, but i know i'm only a construction worker and what i say doesn't counts much. i know this since two years, but if you don't ask... i can't read minds.
i reported it even 2 years ago, attentive fellows like marcel know it. of course tomm should remember it to.
our solution was simply not to use it, it has no advantages.
it was ME who removed the matlib from the standard cobra3, to make it work right and to remove a non working option from a template model.
unfortunately SSC had a change of server and my old articles was unusable because all pictures was broken, so i deleted the thread for my hint's of modeling with the LMR.

but anyway some know everything and never have to ask... so i guess you wouldn't have read it.
not so me, if i don't understand, i ask.


really this is my weak point, loosing LMR means loosing me and it would be only fair when i could take all with me i contributed, i can't demand this, but it would be at least showing a little respect.

i was called a "lazy modeler", but if you ask me... better not.


just to make ti proof,

cobra3_false.jpg

cobra3_ok.jpg

besides, i have no problems with exchanging the asp and the cobra1, the cobra1 is history, it was one of my very first models and it's soon 10 years old. the asp is a conversion from FFED3D and i can see no reason why it shouldn't be replaced by this beautiful ship.

i guess, i have a little handicap because i made my first models vertice by vertice, very uncomfortable, very basic system,
but, i know what stands behind.

and if a hang around here to long i get nowhere with my models i'm up to ;)

@Ae-2222

Gernot, this is an old contribution made by a new artist who was with Pioneer for a month or two. I'm sure no disrespect could have been meant as he didn't know you at all. It is too late to reply to him (I assume).
It would help guide future contributors if you and other art people would continue to interact via Github though :) . (Also it would help in design. There are issues like #813 which has not been contributed to by art people despite being open for a long time.)


  • Please consider that, as with all volunteer work, people give their free time. This is because they value contributing to Pioneer over other things they could be doing. If they do not enjoy it they will value it less and spend less time.

  • Please also consider that we have contributors from from very different cultures as well as all walks of life (CS people, authors,composers, scientists, engineers, artists..). Not everyone encounters to the same level of offensive language and hostility in real life. Contributing to a space sim is very pure and a form of expression for a lot.

So by use of offensive language and showing hostile intent behind it you are ruining the mood for people .. even all the people working in areas totally unrelated to models/model-system coding..while not adding anything to the points you are making in your arguments. Be considerate and follow an appropriate code of conduct:)
People value your time, dedication, effort and work as well as any logical points you make, however hostility doesn't help anything.
Github is very focussed on design and content so it helps to stick to the topic, facts, logic, and being clear/brief.

@gernot66

ok, if i really sounded offense here, it wasn't my intention, wherefore other times it was ment to be.

to sad he might have left, because i do like this model and i like to see it in pioneer.
like i said i would appreciate to exchange both with the existing "cobby" and asp., even if i haven't seen a piece of his cobra1, but i expect it will be nice as this one.

it's just hey, contact me (as modeller) if you are willing to mess with the LMR, i can't foresee or read minds.
what i didn't understand to well about that is that you folks didn't told him "ask gernötli", he will help you.
i will anybody, any question i can answer, i will answer with enthusiasm (- or +, steve said once "it's just his typical enthusiasm") yep, that's me controlled by feelings instead of mind. not that i wouldn't have a mind. ;)

and i can't spend each day here checking what's going on, from time to time, yes.
else i really get nowhere, this is time consuming here for me, i need to read and "translate" (even if i read english well, but you have to sort that out i would say).

sometimes i'm very present in the forum or here, other times i'm envolved only in my "work".
i have to, when i'm up on something i work very concentrated on it and any participation, no matter what kind of, is delayed, i simply haven't then the mind for it, all circles then around the problems that has been caused by the project i'm up to.
what should i tell you, even "real life" has been delayed because of pioneer :)

sometimes i dance on the edge, forgive me please.

and sorry for beeing agressive when it comes to replacing the LMR, this tears out my heart, it really hurts me and so i cry.

point one, right!
point two, right!
point three, kick my ass, right!

i have seen above named issue, not so long ago, and stated "what are we waiting for?"
i had (since a long time) a similar idea, now i'm not a programmer and sometimes a very old fashioned guy.

one thing, one question left, contact not possible anymore?, model is in pioneer (not in my build), and can i nonetheless help with the undercarriage? it would please me.

by contributing via git, god, like i said give me a rigged anim over three joints to do, but spare github, at least until i get my PC back running.

look, i know it's hard to mess with a guy that posters burlesque number girls on spaceships ;)

and be warned :) when i'm ever able to master git, expect a complete overhaul of all models.
i will open at least a issue now, to find out what you guys think about.

stop ;)

@Luomu
Owner

@SimonRinehart has chosen to delete his Pioneer repository, but the models are still available at: https://github.com/robn/pioneer/tree/simonrinehart-master
Anyone is free to finish and submit them.

@SimonRinehart

I never animated the undercarriage for 2 reasons: I heard LMR was to be removed, and there was no existing data type/code for running vertex/rigged animations, so I left it in a placeholder state. I'm glad you liked the model, I'm not sure everyone did though. Some said it had too much 'greeble' or didn't remain true to various nitpicky pioneer related issues. Why I didn't ask for your help, 2 reasons: I wasn't aware of your presence at the time to the extent that you are, and I happen to be a modeler in my own right with major AAA shipped titles so I have an idea of what I'm doing most of the time. Yes I worked in MAX, but I also work in lightwave, solidworks, and sometimes inventor when it comes to parametric solid modeling. FYI the vertex colors were not to be applied to the whole mesh but sub-objects within the mesh, but it's just as good to assign it some texture real estate.

Let me give you my opinion Gernot, these guys don't like you, they have stated it clearly and numerous times on their IRC channel and their reactions to your posts are pretty clear too. You must really love Pioneer to hang around and take this punishment. I happened to realize very quickly that although this project is labelled collaborative, there are a select few with the 'power' to either veto or completely ignore useful contributions in favor of fluff and tech demonstration. I know professional development has on it's side the power of payroll but you can't use the 'open source' excuse to justify taking 10 years to develop something that should take much . much. much less, and that only accents what is a shocking lack of actual design intent behind the development of pioneer. It's seat of the pants style.

I left the project because I mistakenly thought this project was supposed to result in a game, when it won't be, and the unmodded version will be boring, shallow, and frustratingly not reaching the potential of a sandbox game. Some of these guys bring a new meaning to taking off on a tangent. There are core mechanics still not even designed. I tried to lay out some design but met with some resistance so I stepped off. you might consider doing the same, just my honest suggestion to you. Cheers.

@robn
Owner

I'm closing this PR as its been a while since its had anything useful. @SimonRinehart, thank you for your contributions. They have been very useful in guiding development of the model renderer.

@robn robn closed this
@Ae-2222

In the interest of clearing up incorrect generalisations without specific examples and misconceptions so it at least can benefit others in future:

@SimonRhinehart wrote: I happened to realize very quickly that although this project is labelled collaborative, there are a select few with the 'power' to either veto or completely ignore useful contributions in favor of fluff and tech demonstration.

There's no one with veto. The very nature of opensource enforces rough consensus especially with distributed source where everyone has a fork.
It may seem that way as design threads only have a few contributors. This is because trying to organise opensource devs is like trying to herd cats. As you've found out:)

Useful contributions are ..useful and can't in anyway really conflict with what ever you mean by 'fluff and tech demos'. It's trivial to merge contributions.

  • People come from a lot of different backgrounds (there's only one coder from gamedev, fluffyfreak, and he's too busy even to come on IRC), have extremely limited time, and have uncertain availability.

  • Most of all people generally only want to focus on the areas they are working on and interested in (also since coders are all from other fields , some not remotely related to IT like science/engineering, they are limited in the beginning as to which areas they can contribute.) . Things will only improve as the project matures and more people join.

    • This project is very young. There was one person (Tomm) developing it for a couple of years with some help from one or two others, a couple of others joined after details became public at SSC, the other 40 odd joined after robn opened the IRC channel at the beginning of last year. Project management/structure only started to be looked at at the end of last year and even then it was hard to get people involved.

You do not understand the way opensource projects work. (You stated a bunch of stuff based on incorrect assumptions and said words to the effect 'nvm,i'll leave instead' at the end, the last time around which stopped that discussion). In the interest of documenting the difference between open source and commercial dev:

Design is done iteratively instead of upfront in a waterfall manner.

Commercial games tend to be very focused on having a definite end product to get funding and a path that will guarantee commercial success without burning through their budget. This is the most economic way..which is probably in part responsible for commercial games being formulaic and mixing/matching proven bits endlessly. There's also no formal parallel process for R&D like in other engineering fields .

Unlike commercial games, for open source projects:

  • tangibles are needed to demonstrate the project and allow it to grow (as opposed to presenting proposals to funding people to do a fixed project)
  • an open ended game is ideally suited for continuous opensource dev(other projects like flight gear.orbiter are in their 15th/12th years) and an iterative model is the best for that
  • only a fraction of the final people would be working in the beginning and the depth of the undertaking can scale as people join
  • availability and degree of availability of people vary so things can be adjusted
  • people bring different skills and ideas with them which become available as they join

so dealing with things as and when they become necessary (as opposed to upfront design) is general practise and iteration becomes necessary.

One way is to perhaps to show a very well designed opensource project FreeOrion (it's not simple well defined clone of anything, and the space 4x genre had actual subtle design issues to resolve which had caused a huge amount of commercial projects to miss the mark). Their road map shows design is looked at as is needed for code or art and a path to do this, while allowing iteration on tangibles, is established Each section was roughly defined first in a path and expanded and linked to the detailed design pads. Things like diplomacy/AI still a major to do.

If there is a better opensource game model, please link to a project that uses it.

There are core mechanics still not even designed. I tried to lay out some design but met with some resistance so I stepped off.

There was no resistance, just people being busy/focussing on their own areas (and also being reluctant to add speculative features before they are coded). You left when no one worked in your area of interest after just a couple of weeks,:)

Design is good, but consider how long it takes to mobilise people in the Pioneer team to look up from what they are doing - it took from the end of last year to 1st quarter of this year to get one design pad and very basic content in the wiki,with perhaps only 6 people contributing. Only 3 (excluding yourself) contributed to the latest discussion.

@SimonRhinehart wrote: Let me give you my opinion Gernot, these guys don't like you, they have stated it clearly and numerous times on their IRC channel and their reactions to your posts are pretty clear too.

Robn left the forums at SSC (temporarily I think) because he had enough of consistently hostile un-reasoning behaviour instead of calm rational discourse. It's a known issue. This is no one person's project..the project belongs to those who create it, and as long as people don't act in a way that diminishes other contributors experience (i.e. act anti-socially) they are welcome.

@gernot66
@Brianetta
Owner

nice that you contacted me, because i was already looking for a way to contact you but didn't found a mail address.

Gernot, please be aware that this was not a private email, and that you are sharing your thoughts with everybody on Github.

@gernot66
@gernot66
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Commits on Apr 26, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart
Commits on Apr 28, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart
Commits on Apr 29, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart

    asset clean and add, 2 ships complete except for missile/hardpoint lo…

    SimonRinehart authored
    …cation and subjective tweaks to params.
    
    possible rescaling needed later
  2. @SimonRinehart

    cobra Mk II

    SimonRinehart authored
  3. @SimonRinehart

    thruster reduction, ship def prepend

    SimonRinehart authored
    changed the figures then put them back based on Brianetta's original balance
  4. @SimonRinehart

    added emit texture for engine cones

    SimonRinehart authored
    desaturated existing diffuse on engine cones
Commits on May 3, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart
Commits on May 4, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart
  2. @SimonRinehart

    removed cargo scoop

    SimonRinehart authored
  3. @SimonRinehart

    mtl fix

    SimonRinehart authored
Commits on May 5, 2012
  1. @SimonRinehart
  2. @SimonRinehart
  3. @SimonRinehart
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