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Thread view of comment in reply to other events #497

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shtrom opened this Issue Mar 28, 2013 · 13 comments

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shtrom commented Mar 28, 2013

In the Web UI, show "threaded" (tree-style) replies.

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shtrom Mar 28, 2013

It might also be worth adding a count of the sub-level comments inReplyTo that particular comment too. Or at least a way to display them inline.

See [0], and my reply to ⒿⓅⓄⓅⒺ [1], which doesn't show directly, and doesn't have any indication of existence in the main stream.

[0] https://1realtime.net/shtrom/note/kHSRrvR3Sky-wB6C6EQErA
[1] https://pump.jpope.org/jpope/comment/OyLLT2zLQYCTExgQem3dGg

shtrom commented Mar 28, 2013

It might also be worth adding a count of the sub-level comments inReplyTo that particular comment too. Or at least a way to display them inline.

See [0], and my reply to ⒿⓅⓄⓅⒺ [1], which doesn't show directly, and doesn't have any indication of existence in the main stream.

[0] https://1realtime.net/shtrom/note/kHSRrvR3Sky-wB6C6EQErA
[1] https://pump.jpope.org/jpope/comment/OyLLT2zLQYCTExgQem3dGg

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evanp Mar 28, 2013

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I don't think you should reply to comments. Reply to the original.

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evanp commented Mar 28, 2013

I don't think you should reply to comments. Reply to the original.

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evanp Mar 28, 2013

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Mostly a dupe of #353.

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evanp commented Mar 28, 2013

Mostly a dupe of #353.

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shtrom Mar 28, 2013

If comments should not be replied to (though I would prefer a well ordered discussion thread), perhaps the “Like, Comment, Share” button should then not even appear on the page of the object itself? This would ensure there is no such case.

shtrom commented Mar 28, 2013

If comments should not be replied to (though I would prefer a well ordered discussion thread), perhaps the “Like, Comment, Share” button should then not even appear on the page of the object itself? This would ensure there is no such case.

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marjoleink Mar 30, 2013

I don't think you should reply to comments. Reply to the original.

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment (which may bring up a point that is not even in the original post), then by all means it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to.
Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless verry quickly.

marjoleink commented Mar 30, 2013

I don't think you should reply to comments. Reply to the original.

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment (which may bring up a point that is not even in the original post), then by all means it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to.
Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless verry quickly.

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shtrom Mar 31, 2013

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment [...] it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to. Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless verry quickly.

I agree with this.

This might also help solve an oddity that I have observed: when you get event from people you follow, it seems you get a partial stream of comments. “Semantically”, some reply to the OP, while some others reply to comments to that OP (and so on). However, with the all-comments-to-OP approach, this semantic view is broken. Due to this, I think I more often than not get snippets of conversation between people I follow and people I don't. I don't get comments from the latter, and end up having a rather confusing half-view of a conversation which is no longer directly linked to the main event. (This particular behaviour is probably also linked to #479)

As this is mostly a duplicate of #353, let's make this issue more specific to what's not in #353.

shtrom commented Mar 31, 2013

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment [...] it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to. Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless verry quickly.

I agree with this.

This might also help solve an oddity that I have observed: when you get event from people you follow, it seems you get a partial stream of comments. “Semantically”, some reply to the OP, while some others reply to comments to that OP (and so on). However, with the all-comments-to-OP approach, this semantic view is broken. Due to this, I think I more often than not get snippets of conversation between people I follow and people I don't. I don't get comments from the latter, and end up having a rather confusing half-view of a conversation which is no longer directly linked to the main event. (This particular behaviour is probably also linked to #479)

As this is mostly a duplicate of #353, let's make this issue more specific to what's not in #353.

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shtrom May 14, 2013

I'm risking some sort of bandwagon fallacy name-calling here, but I just learnt that even Facebook actually went down the way of threaded comments, arguably, with mixed results when trying to sort them differently than by time.

One of their argument is actually in direct relation with my point about #582: “It will make it easier for you to interact directly with individual readers and keep relevant conversations connected”

I really think this is a very desirable feature.

shtrom commented May 14, 2013

I'm risking some sort of bandwagon fallacy name-calling here, but I just learnt that even Facebook actually went down the way of threaded comments, arguably, with mixed results when trying to sort them differently than by time.

One of their argument is actually in direct relation with my point about #582: “It will make it easier for you to interact directly with individual readers and keep relevant conversations connected”

I really think this is a very desirable feature.

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ghost Jul 14, 2013

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment (which may bring up a point that is not even in the original post), then by all means it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to.
Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless very quickly.

Agree, I really think this will be missed after conversion.

ghost commented Jul 14, 2013

If your reply is to the original poster you should reply to the original. If your reply is to a comment (which may bring up a point that is not even in the original post), then by all means it must be possible to reply to the comment that it actually is in reply to.
Without that, conversations get unreadable and meaningless very quickly.

Agree, I really think this will be missed after conversion.

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cwebber Jul 23, 2013

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It might be a separate bug, but you can presently reply to comments on a thread, but then they are "lost to the sands of time":

In this thread: https://identi.ca/cwebber/note/wcSFbkA5Sci7EEjqbAAT9A
Joey Hess's made a comment, which you can view at this link specifically: https://identi.ca/joeyh/comment/pcB7QsV2TpirWwdYPrZ36A
I made a reply to that, which the web interface allowed me to do: https://identi.ca/cwebber/comment/uFXW5e4mR1mU27xqzBa5sg

However, it never shows up in the original conversation, and never at all shows up in my timeline... more or less, it looks like it was "lost to the sands of time", which is frustrating for me.

It's fine if the pump web interface doesn't want people replying to comments and replying to the conversation instead, but if that's so, when clicking on a comment's reply, it should reply to the conversation for you, or the web user interface should flatten the thread. Otherwise, users are possibly encouraged to make comments that are never seen, and they won't know why... and that's a frustrating experience!

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cwebber commented Jul 23, 2013

It might be a separate bug, but you can presently reply to comments on a thread, but then they are "lost to the sands of time":

In this thread: https://identi.ca/cwebber/note/wcSFbkA5Sci7EEjqbAAT9A
Joey Hess's made a comment, which you can view at this link specifically: https://identi.ca/joeyh/comment/pcB7QsV2TpirWwdYPrZ36A
I made a reply to that, which the web interface allowed me to do: https://identi.ca/cwebber/comment/uFXW5e4mR1mU27xqzBa5sg

However, it never shows up in the original conversation, and never at all shows up in my timeline... more or less, it looks like it was "lost to the sands of time", which is frustrating for me.

It's fine if the pump web interface doesn't want people replying to comments and replying to the conversation instead, but if that's so, when clicking on a comment's reply, it should reply to the conversation for you, or the web user interface should flatten the thread. Otherwise, users are possibly encouraged to make comments that are never seen, and they won't know why... and that's a frustrating experience!

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joeyh Jul 23, 2013

I only saw cwebber's reply because I happened to click on the link to it in "Meanwhile..."

joeyh commented Jul 23, 2013

I only saw cwebber's reply because I happened to click on the link to it in "Meanwhile..."

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msjoberg Jul 24, 2013

I believe the issue is that in the API it is possible to reply to comments, and some 3rd party clients allow that. But since the web UI doesn't recognise these, they are not shown. In the client I'm writing (Pumpa) they do show up, but this was an unintended consequence of the way the objects are drawn :-)

I think if we aren't going to have threaded conversations (I personally like them, but I like consistency even more!) the API shouldn't even allow such replies-to-comments. Or it could simply attach them to the root object and not the comment.

msjoberg commented Jul 24, 2013

I believe the issue is that in the API it is possible to reply to comments, and some 3rd party clients allow that. But since the web UI doesn't recognise these, they are not shown. In the client I'm writing (Pumpa) they do show up, but this was an unintended consequence of the way the objects are drawn :-)

I think if we aren't going to have threaded conversations (I personally like them, but I like consistency even more!) the API shouldn't even allow such replies-to-comments. Or it could simply attach them to the root object and not the comment.

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shtrom Aug 29, 2013

Maybe a more lightweight way of indicating followup conversations, in the spirit of #544, would be to display an additional, more prominent, link to the object's own page (where direct replies can be seen) labelled something like “Followup replies”. Essentially, this would be the same as what the time-of-posting link currently does, except only displayed when any other objects have their inReplyTo set to the current reply object, and placed next to the “Comment” link at the bottom.

This would alleviate the need to display too many thread levels (though I'd still prefer to have, say, one or two levels), while still emphasising the fact that the conversation continues and giving a rather direct access to it.

shtrom commented Aug 29, 2013

Maybe a more lightweight way of indicating followup conversations, in the spirit of #544, would be to display an additional, more prominent, link to the object's own page (where direct replies can be seen) labelled something like “Followup replies”. Essentially, this would be the same as what the time-of-posting link currently does, except only displayed when any other objects have their inReplyTo set to the current reply object, and placed next to the “Comment” link at the bottom.

This would alleviate the need to display too many thread levels (though I'd still prefer to have, say, one or two levels), while still emphasising the fact that the conversation continues and giving a rather direct access to it.

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brainwane Apr 6, 2016

Conversation about this in https://identi.ca/jankusanagi/comment/5hjE2MhoRbWJNxhwBLTdIg and https://identi.ca/brainwane/note/8sXpyp19R6uaeWd8zfjYXg -- the disparity between the plaintext and the HTML versions of these emails slows down my engagement with the service and makes conversations harder.

brainwane commented Apr 6, 2016

Conversation about this in https://identi.ca/jankusanagi/comment/5hjE2MhoRbWJNxhwBLTdIg and https://identi.ca/brainwane/note/8sXpyp19R6uaeWd8zfjYXg -- the disparity between the plaintext and the HTML versions of these emails slows down my engagement with the service and makes conversations harder.

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