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Event-Driven Processing #143

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mottosso opened this Issue Feb 9, 2015 · 30 comments

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mottosso commented Feb 9, 2015

Goal

To provide for customisable flow of control.

Currently, the execution model in Pyblish is linear; each group of plug-ins is assigned an order ranging from 0-3 and is processed sequentially in this order. Additionally, validation A and B both run but their order relative each other is undefined; i.e. you can't know whether A will finish before B and can therefore not define any behaviour based on it.

This proposal aims to solve that.


Table of contents

Related




Implementation

Any implementation should allow for branches of execution to be defined.

Per-plugin events

  ____________        ________________        ________________        ________________ 
 |            |      |                |      |                |      |                |
 |     finish o------o start   finish o------o start   finish o------o start   finish o
 |____________|   ¦  |________________|      |________________|   ¦  |________________|
                  ¦   validator               validator           ¦   extractor        
                  ¦                                               ¦ 
                  ¦   ________________        ________________    ¦              
                  ¦  |                |      |                |   ¦              
                  `--o start   finish o------o start   finish o---`
                     |________________|      |________________|                 
                      validator               custom

In which each plug-in may have any number of interesting events, even custom ones similar to Qt Signals and Slots.

Multiple events

There may be many events associated with any one plug-in, some built-in, some custom.

 _________________________ 
|                         |
o start            finish o
o stop             failed o
|                  logged o
|                 skipped o
|                         |
|-------------------------|
|                         |
|                 custom1 o
|                 custom2 o
|                         |
|                         |
|                         |
|                         |
|_________________________|

Group events

Groups of plug-ins may also trigger events. This will be necessary in order to retain how processing is currently triggered; i.e. Extraction comes after Validation which comes after Selection.

                   ________________________________________________
                  |                                                |  
  ____________    |           _______        _______               |    ________________ 
 |            |   |          |       |      |       |              |   |                |
 |     finish o---o start----o       o------o       o-------finish-o---o start   finish o
 |____________|   |       ¦  |_______|      |_______|   ¦          |   |________________|
                  |       ¦                             ¦          |               
                  |       ¦                             ¦          |
                  |       ¦   _______                   ¦          |
                  |       ¦  |       |                  ¦          |
                  |       ¦--o       o------------------`          |
                  |          |_______|                             |
                  |                                                |
                  |________________________________________________|
                   validators

As you can see, the linking of processes via events also opens up for interesting graphical potential!


Qt

Inspired by Qt, we could have a look at defining a simple observer pattern.

# Definition
class Plugin(...)
   event_name = Event()

# Example
class MyRegularValidation(...):
    failed = Event()

    def process(...):
        if failure:
            failed.emit()        

class MySpecialValidation(...):
    def __init__(...):
        MyRegularValidation.failed.connect(self.handle_failure)

One disadvantage here is that plug-ins triggering events must be known before other plug-ins may subscribe to them; something which may not be possible due to Pyblish being driven by plug-ins that are unknown until after discovery.

CSS3

Taking inspiration from JavaScript and CSS3, we can work around the above disadvantage by resolving dependencies during plug-in discovery.

An attribute called on is added to a plug-in which determines upon which event it is to be processed.

# Definition
class Plugin(...):
    on = "eventName"

# Example
class MyRegularValidation(...):
    failed = Event()

    def process(...):
        # Note: Provider doesn't need subscriber to be available during emission
        if failure:
            failed.emit()  

class MySpecialValidation(...):
    # Note: subscriber doesn't need source to be available during bind
    on = "MyRegularValidation:failed"

Additional potential

In addition to plain names, we can also take advantage of CSS3 psuedo-selectors.

# Definition
class Plugin(...):
    on = "name:class::element"

# Example
class MyRegularValidation(...):
    on = "extraction::before"

class MySpecialValidation(...):
    on = "MyRegularValidation:failed"

In which name is the name of a particular event or object, class represents a component of said object and element represents a particular state; either before or after.

Terminology borrowed from CSS3 psuedo-classes and psuedo-elements.


Built-in Events

Some events may be built-in, such as finished and failed, along with system-events such as logged or written.

# Sample of built-in events
plugin:
 - finished
 - logged

validator:
 - succeeded
 - failed

extractor:
 - written

Custom Event Handling

Specifying that a plug-in is to be triggered onFinished by another plug-in means to trigger a plug-in's process() function.

class MyPlugin(..):
    on = "pluginFinished"
    plugin = "MyOtherPlugin"

class MyOthePlugin(...):
    def process(...):
        # I am called once `MyPlugin` is finished.

But there may be other events of interest; here's how it may look when handling other types of events, some triggered by more specific events, some by a GUI such as Pyblish QML and others by you.

class ValidateNamingConvention(...):

    def on_licked(self):
        """Triggered by User Interface"""
        do_something_visual()

    def on_finished(self):
        do_something()

    def on_failed(self):
        do_something_else()

    def on_custom_event(self):
        """Triggered by you"""
        do_something_custom()



Syntax

Each plug-in provides an attribute on containing the exact name of an event.

on: "validationFinished"
on: "extractionFailed"

However, as an event may require further definition:

on: "pluginFinished"  # What plug-in?

Additional data requires a well-defined syntax so as to provide for both built-in and custom events.

separate variable

on: "pluginFinished"
plugin: "MyPlugin"

dot-notation

on: "MyPlugin.finished"

psuedo-class

on: "MyPlugin:finished"

psuedo-class and psuedo-element

Psuedo-elements add additional syntactical possibilities.

on: "MyPlugin:customEvent"
on: "MyPlugin::after"
on: "MyPlugin::before"
on: "MyPlugin:customEvent::before



# Repair and Feedback

Events could potentially replace current and proposed methods of repairing and providing interactive feedback, as mentioned here.

Explicit handling

class MyValidator(...):
    def __init__(...):
        self.repaired = Event()

    def process(...):
        if failed:
            self.repaired(instance)

class MyRepair(...):
    on = "pluginRepaired"
    plugin = "MyValidator"

Implicit handling

class MyPlugin(...):
    def onRepair(self):
        do_repair()

    def onFeedback(self):
        do_feedback()



A note on backwards compatibility

An event corresponding to how processes are triggered currently is provided as default, thus not breaking backwards compatibility.

class MySelector(...):
    on = "publishStart"

class  MyValidator(...):
    on = "selectionFinished"

class MyExtractor(...):
   on = "validationFinished"

Augmenting the process with customised behaviour that was previously impossible.

class MyPostMortem(...):
    on = "publishFinished"

class MyExtractorPostProcess(...):
    on = "pluginFinished"
    plugin = "MyExtractor"



Conclusion

Triggering by events can be both very powerful but also be the cause of difficult-to-find bugs. If we were able to visualise the network of triggers by means of a node-graph, say, then we would be able to get a clearer understanding of simple chain of events whilst also being able to design larger and more interesting networks.

For example, here.

image

We can roughly see the order in which the plug-ins will be processed.

Selection -> Validation -> Extraction -> Conform

But beyond that, there isn't much we can get; not even from inspecting each individual file, as they aren't capable of expression order beyond what is currently in this original design.

With an event-driven paradigm, we would be able to instead look at it like this.

image

It opens up both functional and graphical possibilities whilst at the same time eliminates the current fixed function pipeline-style of processing and leave room for full-on event-driven programming!

This, together with Dependency Injection and In-memory plug-ins will make Pyblish both easier to learn and more lucrative for advanced uses.




References

Event-driven programming is common in JavaScript when used together with web design, in which a webpage responds to external events via subscription..

$("#my-button").on("click", function () {
  console.log("Hello, World!");
});

..or by attaching an event handler.

<p id="demo" onclick="sayHello()">Say Hello</p>

<script>
function sayHello() {
    console.log("Hello, World!");
}
</script>

In the former case, structure is de-coupled from behaviour whereas in the latter, behaviour is embedded into the structure; one favouring readability whereas the other favours separation of concerns.

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@mottosso mottosso added the proposal label Feb 9, 2015

@mottosso mottosso added this to the 2.0 milestone Feb 9, 2015

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This is an extremely good write-up covering both pros and cons. Very good!

Though an important thing here is that everything you mention seems to be triggered and setup from the plug-in source code. Nevertheless I think the real power comes in when the user can drag and drop those dependencies in a UI (like a node-graph). From a node graph I think the Slots and Events could respectively be seen as a Node's input and Outputs, correct?

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BigRoy commented Feb 9, 2015

This is an extremely good write-up covering both pros and cons. Very good!

Though an important thing here is that everything you mention seems to be triggered and setup from the plug-in source code. Nevertheless I think the real power comes in when the user can drag and drop those dependencies in a UI (like a node-graph). From a node graph I think the Slots and Events could respectively be seen as a Node's input and Outputs, correct?

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Though an important thing here is that everything you mention seems to be triggered and setup from the plug-in source code. Nevertheless I think the real power comes in when the user can drag and drop those dependencies in a UI (like a node-graph).

I agree, and I believe the source of the on variable could potentially come from an external resource, such as a JSON file, in which case networks can be designed and stored like you say. I'm hoping that this design would allow for this.

Here's how I'd imagine it to work currently.

  1. Plug-ins are discovered, and loaded into memory
  2. Dependencies are resolved; via their on attributes
  3. Dependencies are drawn visually; like a node-graph
  4. User may either disconnect existing connections or make new ones
  5. The new connection is stored in on attribute
  6. User may choose to export the values of all on attributes to a file.

To then load this data:

1-3 remain the same.
4: on values are loaded into plug-ins from file
5: User interacts with graph like before.

From a node graph I think the Slots and Events could respectively be seen as a Node's input and Outputs, correct?

I can't be sure, but I'd imagine so, yes.

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mottosso commented Feb 9, 2015

Though an important thing here is that everything you mention seems to be triggered and setup from the plug-in source code. Nevertheless I think the real power comes in when the user can drag and drop those dependencies in a UI (like a node-graph).

I agree, and I believe the source of the on variable could potentially come from an external resource, such as a JSON file, in which case networks can be designed and stored like you say. I'm hoping that this design would allow for this.

Here's how I'd imagine it to work currently.

  1. Plug-ins are discovered, and loaded into memory
  2. Dependencies are resolved; via their on attributes
  3. Dependencies are drawn visually; like a node-graph
  4. User may either disconnect existing connections or make new ones
  5. The new connection is stored in on attribute
  6. User may choose to export the values of all on attributes to a file.

To then load this data:

1-3 remain the same.
4: on values are loaded into plug-ins from file
5: User interacts with graph like before.

From a node graph I think the Slots and Events could respectively be seen as a Node's input and Outputs, correct?

I can't be sure, but I'd imagine so, yes.

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+1

I found just doing a small amount of validators, that chaining them
together would be helpful.

If this gets implemented, would we also be able to discard the
selection>validation>extraction>conform workflow, as it would "just" be
chains of event plugins?

Also "chains" might not be a good term, as branching could definitely
happen.

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tokejepsen commented Feb 10, 2015

+1

I found just doing a small amount of validators, that chaining them
together would be helpful.

If this gets implemented, would we also be able to discard the
selection>validation>extraction>conform workflow, as it would "just" be
chains of event plugins?

Also "chains" might not be a good term, as branching could definitely
happen.

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If this gets implemented, would we also be able to discard the selection>validation>extraction>conform workflow, as it would "just" be chains of event plugins?

In theory, yes, I think so. Though I wouldn't throw out our current concepts right away as I think they are still valuable from a non-technical standpoint when considering how to structure your plug-ins.

Also "chains" might not be a good term, as branching could definitely happen.

Chaining is a good description of how it works currently! But yeah, this should allow for any arbitrary order to be defined by you; including circular and self-referencing ones. It might even lay the groundwork for something like #133, in which I'd image we need a continous stream of validations to take place based on what the user is doing.

I'm very excited about this and have already gotten a few ideas about how to visualize things. I'd be happy to take on suggestions about this too. We've spoken before about nodes and graphs (#41); and now we have something concrete to build it upon! What i'd like to see is practical thought about how the above proposal could be used when drawing a graph; I haven't got much experience with it and quite frankly wouldn't know where to even start.

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mottosso commented Feb 10, 2015

If this gets implemented, would we also be able to discard the selection>validation>extraction>conform workflow, as it would "just" be chains of event plugins?

In theory, yes, I think so. Though I wouldn't throw out our current concepts right away as I think they are still valuable from a non-technical standpoint when considering how to structure your plug-ins.

Also "chains" might not be a good term, as branching could definitely happen.

Chaining is a good description of how it works currently! But yeah, this should allow for any arbitrary order to be defined by you; including circular and self-referencing ones. It might even lay the groundwork for something like #133, in which I'd image we need a continous stream of validations to take place based on what the user is doing.

I'm very excited about this and have already gotten a few ideas about how to visualize things. I'd be happy to take on suggestions about this too. We've spoken before about nodes and graphs (#41); and now we have something concrete to build it upon! What i'd like to see is practical thought about how the above proposal could be used when drawing a graph; I haven't got much experience with it and quite frankly wouldn't know where to even start.

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Webhooks

Here's an idea from brainstorming with @tokejepsen; hook into events coming from an external source.

pyblish.register_webhook("customEvent", "http://mystudio.ftrack.com/et19trisdsnj83u8fdhjr84y")

class MyPlugin(...):
    on = "customEvent"
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mottosso commented Feb 15, 2015

Webhooks

Here's an idea from brainstorming with @tokejepsen; hook into events coming from an external source.

pyblish.register_webhook("customEvent", "http://mystudio.ftrack.com/et19trisdsnj83u8fdhjr84y")

class MyPlugin(...):
    on = "customEvent"
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I've just ran into this issue and just want to say, that it sounds greatly useful. It would essentially turn pyblish into extremely strong platform for not just publishing but also many other pipeline tasks that need to be automated.

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mkolar commented May 7, 2015

I've just ran into this issue and just want to say, that it sounds greatly useful. It would essentially turn pyblish into extremely strong platform for not just publishing but also many other pipeline tasks that need to be automated.

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Glad you like it.

I've been looking into various implementations of this, but have yet to find (or understand) any. Help is welcome!

Here's some related reading I've encountered so far.

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mottosso commented May 8, 2015

Glad you like it.

I've been looking into various implementations of this, but have yet to find (or understand) any. Help is welcome!

Here's some related reading I've encountered so far.

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tokejepsen commented Sep 14, 2017

Maybe interesting as well; https://github.com/LumaPictures/pflow

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tokejepsen commented Sep 22, 2017

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Ooo Pyno has some very nice visuals!

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mottosso commented Sep 22, 2017

Ooo Pyno has some very nice visuals!

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Had a closer look at Pyno. In short, it's an unlikely fit as-is, but interesting as reference.

  1. UI is made with Pyglet a cross-platform, pure Python OpenGL GUI framework from 2008
  2. Pyglet is the main blocker from using Pyno with e.g. Maya and/or Qt
  3. Pyglet v1.2.4 is the latest stable version, from 2015
  4. Pyglet v1.3.x is actively being worked on to support Python 3, and eventually drop Python 2
  5. Python 3 support is not stable, Python 2 non-functional
  6. Pyglet source code is functionally and cosmetically poor
    • non PEP8 (line length, variable names, newlines),
    • lots of side effects (on functions, classes and module imports)
    • lots of globals (managing OpenGL state)
    • lots of workarounds for third-party libraries (for Sphinx, Epydoc, PyInstaller etc.)
    • lots of namespace mangling (from X import *)
    • clearly no tests for Python versions
  7. Pyglet is incompatible with Python whose library is distributed as a zip-archive, such as Maya's embedded Python, due to use of the third-party library future and past.
  8. Pyglet messes with the import mechanism, called "lazy loading"
  9. Pyglet source code is versioned with SVN with 10 years of history; checking out the 600kb of source code is a 5 minute process
  10. Can potentially embed Pyglet into a Qt window, such as Maya. (reference) But working with it is based on some rather low-level knowledge and understanding of OpenGL (such as what a context is and how to pass it around).
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mottosso commented Sep 23, 2017

Had a closer look at Pyno. In short, it's an unlikely fit as-is, but interesting as reference.

  1. UI is made with Pyglet a cross-platform, pure Python OpenGL GUI framework from 2008
  2. Pyglet is the main blocker from using Pyno with e.g. Maya and/or Qt
  3. Pyglet v1.2.4 is the latest stable version, from 2015
  4. Pyglet v1.3.x is actively being worked on to support Python 3, and eventually drop Python 2
  5. Python 3 support is not stable, Python 2 non-functional
  6. Pyglet source code is functionally and cosmetically poor
    • non PEP8 (line length, variable names, newlines),
    • lots of side effects (on functions, classes and module imports)
    • lots of globals (managing OpenGL state)
    • lots of workarounds for third-party libraries (for Sphinx, Epydoc, PyInstaller etc.)
    • lots of namespace mangling (from X import *)
    • clearly no tests for Python versions
  7. Pyglet is incompatible with Python whose library is distributed as a zip-archive, such as Maya's embedded Python, due to use of the third-party library future and past.
  8. Pyglet messes with the import mechanism, called "lazy loading"
  9. Pyglet source code is versioned with SVN with 10 years of history; checking out the 600kb of source code is a 5 minute process
  10. Can potentially embed Pyglet into a Qt window, such as Maya. (reference) But working with it is based on some rather low-level knowledge and understanding of OpenGL (such as what a context is and how to pass it around).
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Another inspirational source; https://github.com/circuits/circuits.

Don't think anything will quite hit the requirements we have, so we might be looking at custom solutions.

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tokejepsen commented Nov 22, 2017

Another inspirational source; https://github.com/circuits/circuits.

Don't think anything will quite hit the requirements we have, so we might be looking at custom solutions.

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Had a bit of a play:

import inspect

from pyblish import api
    

connections = [("PluginA.finished", "PluginB.process"), ("PluginB.finished", "PluginC.process")]

class PluginA(api.ContextPlugin):

    def emit(self, signal, connections):
        plugins = api.registered_plugins()
        signal = "{0}.{1}".format(self.__class__.__name__, signal)

        plugins_dict = {}
        for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
            plugins_dict[plugin.__name__] = plugin

        for connection in connections:
            if signal == connection[0]:
                plugin_name, method_name = connection[1].split(".")
                plugin = plugins_dict[plugin_name]()
                for name, method in inspect.getmembers(plugin, predicate=inspect.ismethod):
                    if name == method_name:
                        method([])
        
    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginA"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


class PluginB(PluginA):

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginB"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


class PluginC(PluginA):

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginC"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


api.register_plugin(PluginA)
api.register_plugin(PluginB)
api.register_plugin(PluginC)

p = PluginA()
p.process([])

The connections is a decoupled way of describing a chain of plugins. Very naive approach, but thought I would try to get the ball rolling.

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tokejepsen commented Nov 24, 2017

Had a bit of a play:

import inspect

from pyblish import api
    

connections = [("PluginA.finished", "PluginB.process"), ("PluginB.finished", "PluginC.process")]

class PluginA(api.ContextPlugin):

    def emit(self, signal, connections):
        plugins = api.registered_plugins()
        signal = "{0}.{1}".format(self.__class__.__name__, signal)

        plugins_dict = {}
        for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
            plugins_dict[plugin.__name__] = plugin

        for connection in connections:
            if signal == connection[0]:
                plugin_name, method_name = connection[1].split(".")
                plugin = plugins_dict[plugin_name]()
                for name, method in inspect.getmembers(plugin, predicate=inspect.ismethod):
                    if name == method_name:
                        method([])
        
    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginA"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


class PluginB(PluginA):

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginB"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


class PluginC(PluginA):

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginC"
        self.emit("finished", connections)


api.register_plugin(PluginA)
api.register_plugin(PluginB)
api.register_plugin(PluginC)

p = PluginA()
p.process([])

The connections is a decoupled way of describing a chain of plugins. Very naive approach, but thought I would try to get the ball rolling.

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Played some more :) Main goal here was to expose what signals are available on a plugin, and how Context and Instance plugins would function together.

Currently don't like that we have to register the signals, and emit them as well. (Obviously "finished" and other built in signals would not need to be emitted by the user)

import inspect

from pyblish import api, logic



# These connections should be registered similar to how we register plugins.
# For a visual connector we could use https://github.com/LeGoffLoic/Nodz
registered_connections = [
    ("PluginA.finished", "PluginB.process"),
    ("PluginB.finished", "PluginC.process")
]


class Signal(object):

    def __init__(self, signal):
        curframe = inspect.currentframe()
        calframe = inspect.getouterframes(curframe, 2)
        self.signal = "{0}.{1}".format(calframe[1][3], signal)

    def emit(self, context):
        plugins_dict = {}
        for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
            plugins_dict[plugin.__name__] = plugin

        for connection in registered_connections:
            if self.signal == connection[0]:
                plugin_name, method_name = connection[1].split(".")
                plugin = plugins_dict[plugin_name]()
                members = inspect.getmembers(
                    plugin, predicate=inspect.ismethod
                )
                for name, method in members:
                    if name == method_name:
                        # Hacked proceessing
                        if issubclass(plugins_dict[plugin_name], api.ContextPlugin):
                            method(context)
                        if issubclass(plugins_dict[plugin_name], api.InstancePlugin):
                            for instance in logic.instances_by_plugin(context, plugin):
                                method(instance)


class PluginA(api.ContextPlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginA"
        context.create_instance(name="InstanceA1")
        context.create_instance(name="InstanceA2")
        self.signals["finished"].emit(context)


class PluginB(api.InstancePlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, instance):
        print "Processing PluginB"
        print instance.data["name"]
        self.signals["finished"].emit(instance.context)


class PluginC(api.ContextPlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginC"
        self.signals["finished"].emit(context)


api.register_plugin(PluginA)
api.register_plugin(PluginB)
api.register_plugin(PluginC)

p = PluginA()
p.process(api.Context())

print "Signals:"
for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
    print plugin
    print plugin.signals
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tokejepsen commented Nov 29, 2017

Played some more :) Main goal here was to expose what signals are available on a plugin, and how Context and Instance plugins would function together.

Currently don't like that we have to register the signals, and emit them as well. (Obviously "finished" and other built in signals would not need to be emitted by the user)

import inspect

from pyblish import api, logic



# These connections should be registered similar to how we register plugins.
# For a visual connector we could use https://github.com/LeGoffLoic/Nodz
registered_connections = [
    ("PluginA.finished", "PluginB.process"),
    ("PluginB.finished", "PluginC.process")
]


class Signal(object):

    def __init__(self, signal):
        curframe = inspect.currentframe()
        calframe = inspect.getouterframes(curframe, 2)
        self.signal = "{0}.{1}".format(calframe[1][3], signal)

    def emit(self, context):
        plugins_dict = {}
        for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
            plugins_dict[plugin.__name__] = plugin

        for connection in registered_connections:
            if self.signal == connection[0]:
                plugin_name, method_name = connection[1].split(".")
                plugin = plugins_dict[plugin_name]()
                members = inspect.getmembers(
                    plugin, predicate=inspect.ismethod
                )
                for name, method in members:
                    if name == method_name:
                        # Hacked proceessing
                        if issubclass(plugins_dict[plugin_name], api.ContextPlugin):
                            method(context)
                        if issubclass(plugins_dict[plugin_name], api.InstancePlugin):
                            for instance in logic.instances_by_plugin(context, plugin):
                                method(instance)


class PluginA(api.ContextPlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginA"
        context.create_instance(name="InstanceA1")
        context.create_instance(name="InstanceA2")
        self.signals["finished"].emit(context)


class PluginB(api.InstancePlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, instance):
        print "Processing PluginB"
        print instance.data["name"]
        self.signals["finished"].emit(instance.context)


class PluginC(api.ContextPlugin):

    signals = {"finished": Signal("finished")}

    def process(self, context):
        print "Processing PluginC"
        self.signals["finished"].emit(context)


api.register_plugin(PluginA)
api.register_plugin(PluginB)
api.register_plugin(PluginC)

p = PluginA()
p.process(api.Context())

print "Signals:"
for plugin in api.registered_plugins():
    print plugin
    print plugin.signals
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Groups of plug-ins may also trigger events. This will be necessary in order to retain how processing is currently triggered; i.e. Extraction comes after Validation which comes after Selection.

Would we need "Group Events"?

If we solve the dependency graph on plugins with orders, which will be a straight line of synchronous plugins executing, are there other use-cases for grouping nodes together?

Maybe visually in a node graph it might be nice to group, but that shouldn't mean anything for how we process the plugins.

Unless we mean that we want to support waiting to process a plugin, until two or more connections has been received?

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tokejepsen commented Nov 30, 2017

Groups of plug-ins may also trigger events. This will be necessary in order to retain how processing is currently triggered; i.e. Extraction comes after Validation which comes after Selection.

Would we need "Group Events"?

If we solve the dependency graph on plugins with orders, which will be a straight line of synchronous plugins executing, are there other use-cases for grouping nodes together?

Maybe visually in a node graph it might be nice to group, but that shouldn't mean anything for how we process the plugins.

Unless we mean that we want to support waiting to process a plugin, until two or more connections has been received?

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Groups of plug-ins may also trigger events. This will be necessary in order to retain how processing is currently triggered; i.e. Extraction comes after Validation which comes after Selection.

I don't think group event triggers are what we are looking for to support the existing CVEI workflow.

The situation we have is that we want to support a CVEI workflow, but without ordering the plugins executions with a numerical variable.
The CVEI workflow is not only a way of mentally organizing different plugins' responsibilities, but also a way for the user to interact with the execution. The interaction comes in the form of choosing instances to process. I would call this pausing of the execution a breakpoint.
These breakpoints could easily be just another plugin, but these plugins would just expect a user interaction to finish its execution.

+-----------------+   +-------------------------+   +------------------+
|                 |   |                         |   |                  |
o start    finish +---> start            finish +---> start     finish o
|                 |   |                         |   |                  |
+-----------------+   +-------------------------+   +------------------+

 collector plugins        collection finished         validator plugins
                       (select instances plugin)
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tokejepsen commented Dec 1, 2017

Groups of plug-ins may also trigger events. This will be necessary in order to retain how processing is currently triggered; i.e. Extraction comes after Validation which comes after Selection.

I don't think group event triggers are what we are looking for to support the existing CVEI workflow.

The situation we have is that we want to support a CVEI workflow, but without ordering the plugins executions with a numerical variable.
The CVEI workflow is not only a way of mentally organizing different plugins' responsibilities, but also a way for the user to interact with the execution. The interaction comes in the form of choosing instances to process. I would call this pausing of the execution a breakpoint.
These breakpoints could easily be just another plugin, but these plugins would just expect a user interaction to finish its execution.

+-----------------+   +-------------------------+   +------------------+
|                 |   |                         |   |                  |
o start    finish +---> start            finish +---> start     finish o
|                 |   |                         |   |                  |
+-----------------+   +-------------------------+   +------------------+

 collector plugins        collection finished         validator plugins
                       (select instances plugin)
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And here is a way the validation could work, only using plugins as well:

+-------------------+   +---------------------+
|                   |   |                     |
o start      finish +---> start        finish o
|                   |   |                     |
+-------------------+   +---------------------+
  validator plugins       validation finished
                        (stop on errors plugin)
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tokejepsen commented Dec 1, 2017

And here is a way the validation could work, only using plugins as well:

+-------------------+   +---------------------+
|                   |   |                     |
o start      finish +---> start        finish o
|                   |   |                     |
+-------------------+   +---------------------+
  validator plugins       validation finished
                        (stop on errors plugin)
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Don't have much to add at the moment, except nice work and keep it up. :)

For visualising and potentially editing these, there is also this:

https://github.com/mfessenden/SceneGraph

image

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mottosso commented Dec 4, 2017

Don't have much to add at the moment, except nice work and keep it up. :)

For visualising and potentially editing these, there is also this:

https://github.com/mfessenden/SceneGraph

image

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My current issue is dealing with how a plugin can wait for all inputs to have been processed.

The won't be standard practice when making plugins, because plugins normally don't need the whole context processed but we will need this for the breakpoint plugins, ei. collection finished and validation finished.

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tokejepsen commented Dec 4, 2017

My current issue is dealing with how a plugin can wait for all inputs to have been processed.

The won't be standard practice when making plugins, because plugins normally don't need the whole context processed but we will need this for the breakpoint plugins, ei. collection finished and validation finished.

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but we will need this for the breakpoint plugins

This is what I had in mind for those group plug-ins; where a series of plug-ins associate themselves with a group such as "collectors" and then another plug-in awaits a signal from this group, rather than any one particular plug-in.

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mottosso commented Dec 4, 2017

but we will need this for the breakpoint plugins

This is what I had in mind for those group plug-ins; where a series of plug-ins associate themselves with a group such as "collectors" and then another plug-in awaits a signal from this group, rather than any one particular plug-in.

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This is what I had in mind for those group plug-ins

Getting this waiting framework up and running, will probably allow us to explore both options. Will need to investigate how other frameworks tackle this.

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tokejepsen commented Dec 4, 2017

This is what I had in mind for those group plug-ins

Getting this waiting framework up and running, will probably allow us to explore both options. Will need to investigate how other frameworks tackle this.

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I think this is basically what we need to solve.

def A(b, c):
    return b + c


def B(x, y):
    return x + y


def C(y, z):
    return y + z


def x():
    return 1


def y():
    return 1


def z():
    return 1

From the above methods we need a way of describing this: A(B(x(), y()), C(y(), z())).

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tokejepsen commented Dec 5, 2017

I think this is basically what we need to solve.

def A(b, c):
    return b + c


def B(x, y):
    return x + y


def C(y, z):
    return y + z


def x():
    return 1


def y():
    return 1


def z():
    return 1

From the above methods we need a way of describing this: A(B(x(), y()), C(y(), z())).

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In order to have a flow based processing, we need to solve some problems mainly creating a DAG framework.

Here is the problem I think we should try to solve:

def A(y, z):
    return y * z


def B(x, y):
    return x + y


def C(y, z):
    return y + z


def x():
    return 1


def y():
    return 2


def z():
    return 3

We need to have a way of describing the connections between the methods to end up executing this A(B(x(), y()), C(y(), z())).
Along with having to describe these connections and execute correctly, we also want these requirements:

  • Deferred evaluation: Any evaluation of the method needs to happen when requested and not when solving the DAG.
  • Reusable methods: A single method needs to be able to be reused multiple times in the DAG.

I have experimented with solving the problem here, but this does not accommodate for the requirements since it evaluates the arguments as it solves the methods, and reusability of the methods can't happen.

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tokejepsen commented Dec 6, 2017

In order to have a flow based processing, we need to solve some problems mainly creating a DAG framework.

Here is the problem I think we should try to solve:

def A(y, z):
    return y * z


def B(x, y):
    return x + y


def C(y, z):
    return y + z


def x():
    return 1


def y():
    return 2


def z():
    return 3

We need to have a way of describing the connections between the methods to end up executing this A(B(x(), y()), C(y(), z())).
Along with having to describe these connections and execute correctly, we also want these requirements:

  • Deferred evaluation: Any evaluation of the method needs to happen when requested and not when solving the DAG.
  • Reusable methods: A single method needs to be able to be reused multiple times in the DAG.

I have experimented with solving the problem here, but this does not accommodate for the requirements since it evaluates the arguments as it solves the methods, and reusability of the methods can't happen.

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Have updated the the experiments here, with a solution that solves the two previous problems; Deferred Evaluation and Reusable Methods.

Think the next issues to tackle are:

  • Keyword arguments
  • Class methods
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tokejepsen commented Dec 12, 2017

Have updated the the experiments here, with a solution that solves the two previous problems; Deferred Evaluation and Reusable Methods.

Think the next issues to tackle are:

  • Keyword arguments
  • Class methods
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The current version here solves the previous two issue; Keyword arguments and Class methods.

I did some quick prototyping of trying to use the system for Pyblish, and it worked well until getting to the previous mentioned issue; waiting for a collection of plugins to finish.

Following the systems mentality of "Everything is just a method", we need a way of describing having an unknown amount of inputs to a method. So the next issue is to support *args and **kwargs.

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tokejepsen commented Dec 13, 2017

The current version here solves the previous two issue; Keyword arguments and Class methods.

I did some quick prototyping of trying to use the system for Pyblish, and it worked well until getting to the previous mentioned issue; waiting for a collection of plugins to finish.

Following the systems mentality of "Everything is just a method", we need a way of describing having an unknown amount of inputs to a method. So the next issue is to support *args and **kwargs.

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I have updated the experiments here.

This addresses the *args and **kwargs issues from before, and includes a proof of concept for Pyblish.

Without knowing very much about event driven processing, I'm pretty sure this system is not event driven. What it is however is a system for chaining plugins together in any arbitrary way. Similar to a DAG

So the question is, would this be what we want or are we looking for event driven processing? And if we looking for event driven processing, what do we want out of it that chaining plugins together can't solve?

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tokejepsen commented Dec 13, 2017

I have updated the experiments here.

This addresses the *args and **kwargs issues from before, and includes a proof of concept for Pyblish.

Without knowing very much about event driven processing, I'm pretty sure this system is not event driven. What it is however is a system for chaining plugins together in any arbitrary way. Similar to a DAG

So the question is, would this be what we want or are we looking for event driven processing? And if we looking for event driven processing, what do we want out of it that chaining plugins together can't solve?

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And if we looking for event driven processing, what do we want out of it that chaining plugins together can't solve?

I can't answer your first question, but an event driven framework would be able to choose which plug-in to process next based on what happens during processing.

For example, right now we have a system where if validation fails, extraction doesn't begin. In a way, that's event driven because the subsequent plug-in is based on this one event. But that's all it is, a single hard-coded response to an expected event.

An arbitrary system would be able to listen to any event, and emit any event. Like Signals and Slots in Qt. Some plug-ins may fire events, and some may listen. But nobody has to listen, and there is never any guarantee that anyone will. Therein also lies the danger or this approach; we can't know when the system is finished, and we can't know if it ever will finish. You can forget about a progress bar for example. Furthermore, it becomes impossibly difficult to debug such a system without corresponding tools to inspect why a particular route was chosen and in response to what event. Much like debugging signals in Qt, except Qt isn't relying on events being emitted nor reaching its destination; it's primary processing loop (from my understanding) is a fixed series of events that run predictably with optional events coming in and out of it. It doesn't hang for example if a particular signal is forgotten or broken. It works more akin to how Pyblish works right now; a fixed event loop, with optional events being emitted. That is, neither Qt nor Pyblish is event driven in this regard.

For a truly event driven system to work, in order to develop and understand it, I expect we'll need a graphical view over it, something to highlight what is running and why; sort of like Nuke and how it highlights lines as they are transferring information.

Sorry I haven't actually run most of your experiments so maybe you've already solved most of this, in which case that is most impressive!

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mottosso commented Dec 13, 2017

And if we looking for event driven processing, what do we want out of it that chaining plugins together can't solve?

I can't answer your first question, but an event driven framework would be able to choose which plug-in to process next based on what happens during processing.

For example, right now we have a system where if validation fails, extraction doesn't begin. In a way, that's event driven because the subsequent plug-in is based on this one event. But that's all it is, a single hard-coded response to an expected event.

An arbitrary system would be able to listen to any event, and emit any event. Like Signals and Slots in Qt. Some plug-ins may fire events, and some may listen. But nobody has to listen, and there is never any guarantee that anyone will. Therein also lies the danger or this approach; we can't know when the system is finished, and we can't know if it ever will finish. You can forget about a progress bar for example. Furthermore, it becomes impossibly difficult to debug such a system without corresponding tools to inspect why a particular route was chosen and in response to what event. Much like debugging signals in Qt, except Qt isn't relying on events being emitted nor reaching its destination; it's primary processing loop (from my understanding) is a fixed series of events that run predictably with optional events coming in and out of it. It doesn't hang for example if a particular signal is forgotten or broken. It works more akin to how Pyblish works right now; a fixed event loop, with optional events being emitted. That is, neither Qt nor Pyblish is event driven in this regard.

For a truly event driven system to work, in order to develop and understand it, I expect we'll need a graphical view over it, something to highlight what is running and why; sort of like Nuke and how it highlights lines as they are transferring information.

Sorry I haven't actually run most of your experiments so maybe you've already solved most of this, in which case that is most impressive!

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sort of like Nuke and how it highlights lines as they are transferring information.

Yup, that was my thinking as well and the experimental system can handle this. It's based on the same end goal; to emulate Nukes graph or Mayas node editor graph with Python methods.

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tokejepsen commented Dec 13, 2017

sort of like Nuke and how it highlights lines as they are transferring information.

Yup, that was my thinking as well and the experimental system can handle this. It's based on the same end goal; to emulate Nukes graph or Mayas node editor graph with Python methods.

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In that case I wouldn't put too much weight onto the "event driven"ness of your system, a regular old DAG will do. A DAG is very much solvable and predictable, much like the current linear system of orderings. Maybe pop up a separate issue about a DAG version of Pyblish and leave this as-is (to rot), as it's probably not the way forwards anyway.

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mottosso commented Dec 13, 2017

In that case I wouldn't put too much weight onto the "event driven"ness of your system, a regular old DAG will do. A DAG is very much solvable and predictable, much like the current linear system of orderings. Maybe pop up a separate issue about a DAG version of Pyblish and leave this as-is (to rot), as it's probably not the way forwards anyway.

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