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Consider dropping/deprecating Python 2.6 support #364
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I'm still stuck on python 2.6; have a lot of custom software, that interfaces with rpms on an older set of RHEL6.0 machines. No chance to upgrade in the short term. (We're in a very controlled environment.) On the other hand, the version of Fabric I'm using works fine for now |
Thanks @timt1961. Yea, Fabric 1.x is unlikely to do this; even if newer Paramiko versions that Fab 1 is API compatible with, drop 2.6 support sometime, you'll always be able to just pin Paramiko to the previous version. |
Annoyed that I didn't write down HOW I got the numbers for this. (Also feel like there's at least one other similar discussion around my projects, involving either @dstufft or @alex, but cannot find it...) What I did in the past and also just now, is:
To reiterate, the LAST time I looked at the Paramiko download data (assuming I did it similarly), we saw:
THIS time, going by the above BigData/Sheets links:
Sadly I can't tell whether that previous recording was in June around ticket create time, or later on, but either way the story hasn't changed much - 2.6 usage continues to drop, but is still nontrivial, insofar as it's still some thousands of users (even if you assume the numbers are highly inflated due to reinstalls, test runs, etc). But it's under 5% now. And I need to check out Invoke itself too, of course, though its users are far more likely to skew bleeding edge than Paramiko/Fabric. |
Invoke itself: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yptr9lEzog0N6fS-AFRFkRVh1hvIxvjUKmWjLA6hXq8/edit?usp=sharing
So, re: current early adopters, clearly we could drop 2.6. The question is, how many folks using Fabric and/or Paramiko would find dropping 2.6 to be a major barrier to adopting Fabric 2? (answer is obviously, "up to about 5%"). Still...now that eg Sphinx has dropped Python 2.6 support, it's getting that much harder to justify keeping it around for Fabric 2 and its friends. I think Sphinx is THE largest/most-used dependency of my projects so far to make its own cut here. So my "it's just as easy to support 2.6!" argument is eroded a lot by that. Sad trombone. |
FWIW as of pip 9 and uh, setuptools I'm not sure but let's say the latest one you can add |
To be clear, older versions of pip will still happily install it by default, but newer versions of pip will not. This eliminates (for newer pips) the "I dropped support for Python X.Y but |
@dstufft - huh, neat! What exactly happens in that case, does |
@bitprophet the latter. |
Also note that some people use |
@ivoflipse is Conda not counted in the PyPI stats? (I don't remember exactly how it works re: package grabbing...I guess if it's not using any pip related code, then it's not?) For Paramiko 17k is a drop in the bucket, for Invoke it'd be like another 50+% increase 😀 |
@bitprophet Conda ~= apt/rpm/etc. It is it's own format and they have their own repositories. |
This is for invoke only, but a lot of the download will be for our CI since we use it to abstract away running linting/tests. As for conda, it is indeed completely separate. |
More arguments for dropping 2.6: the EOL notices from various packages (😁 ) and now, specifically, the fact that |
Prompted by the soon-to-be-linked ticket over in Paramiko land, I reran the numbers for Invoke and as usual 2.6 has dropped more, though is still not as negligible as it is for Paramiko et al. Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18ks_jPkw7EvZfJW4esUYOr_UwscdIlti-ftBZ3Rpr5M/edit#gid=853072060 Basic results rephrased here: 'unknown' is down to 3.3% from ~6% 9 months ago, and explicit Python 2.6 is down to 0.01% (a whole 16 downloads in the last 2 weeks!). So we're well below 5%, if not at the sub-1% reported on Paramiko (again see to-be-linked ticket.) It's also 9 months later for me personally and I'm continuing to feel like yea, maybe it is time to get out the axe. I don't actually have time to do said axing right now but it means I'm that much more amenable to doing it before Invoke 1 / Fabric 2 / Paramiko 3. |
Death to 2.6! |
It's not like the current release is dysfunctional, Python 2.6 simply wouldn't gain any new features. |
Only new fun stuff I found to easily add were set literals/comprehensions & optional string format specifiers ( If anyone has other favorite 2.7/3.x-only upgrades, let me know what I missed ;) |
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Background
There are a number of arguments among progressive package maintainers for dropping 2.6:
But there are strong counter-arguments, which is why we currently still support 2.6:
Possible way forward
DeprecationWarning
(as does pip, cryptography, etc) stating that Invoke 1.0 (maybe 2.0, which is likely to not be years after 1.0) will drop Python 2.6 support. Include a link to this ticket & "please explain why you're still using 2.6".The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: