diff --git a/fs/operations/operations.go b/fs/operations/operations.go
index 4ef8f4b788bc5..8b2c05fc44dd0 100644
--- a/fs/operations/operations.go
+++ b/fs/operations/operations.go
@@ -359,6 +359,11 @@ func Copy(f fs.Fs, dst fs.Object, remote string, src fs.Object) (newDst fs.Objec
 // Move src object to dst or fdst if nil.  If dst is nil then it uses
 // remote as the name of the new object.
 //
+// Note that you must check the destination does not exist before
+// calling this and pass it as dst.  If you pass dst=nil and the
+// destination does exist then this may create duplicates or return
+// errors.
+//
 // It returns the destination object if possible.  Note that this may
 // be nil.
 func Move(fdst fs.Fs, dst fs.Object, remote string, src fs.Object) (newDst fs.Object, err error) {
diff --git a/vfs/dir_test.go b/vfs/dir_test.go
index 6ce604166637f..9ce20576afc4a 100644
--- a/vfs/dir_test.go
+++ b/vfs/dir_test.go
@@ -423,6 +423,8 @@ func TestDirRename(t *testing.T) {
 	r := fstest.NewRun(t)
 	defer r.Finalise()
 	vfs, dir, file1 := dirCreate(t, r)
+	file3 := r.WriteObject("dir/file3", "file3 contents!", t1)
+	fstest.CheckListingWithPrecision(t, r.Fremote, []fstest.Item{file1, file3}, []string{"dir"}, r.Fremote.Precision())
 
 	root, err := vfs.Root()
 	require.NoError(t, err)
@@ -434,11 +436,12 @@ func TestDirRename(t *testing.T) {
 	err = root.Rename("dir", "dir2", root)
 	assert.NoError(t, err)
 	checkListing(t, root, []string{"dir2,0,true"})
-	checkListing(t, dir, []string{"file1,14,false"})
+	checkListing(t, dir, []string{"file1,14,false", "file3,15,false"})
 
 	// check the underlying r.Fremote
 	file1.Path = "dir2/file1"
-	fstest.CheckListingWithPrecision(t, r.Fremote, []fstest.Item{file1}, []string{"dir2"}, r.Fremote.Precision())
+	file3.Path = "dir2/file3"
+	fstest.CheckListingWithPrecision(t, r.Fremote, []fstest.Item{file1, file3}, []string{"dir2"}, r.Fremote.Precision())
 
 	// refetch dir
 	node, err := vfs.Stat("dir2")
@@ -449,10 +452,20 @@ func TestDirRename(t *testing.T) {
 	err = dir.Rename("file1", "file2", root)
 	assert.NoError(t, err)
 	checkListing(t, root, []string{"dir2,0,true", "file2,14,false"})
-	checkListing(t, dir, []string(nil))
+	checkListing(t, dir, []string{"file3,15,false"})
 
 	// check the underlying r.Fremote
 	file1.Path = "file2"
+	fstest.CheckListingWithPrecision(t, r.Fremote, []fstest.Item{file1, file3}, []string{"dir2"}, r.Fremote.Precision())
+
+	// Rename a file on top of another file
+	err = root.Rename("file2", "file3", dir)
+	assert.NoError(t, err)
+	checkListing(t, root, []string{"dir2,0,true"})
+	checkListing(t, dir, []string{"file3,14,false"})
+
+	// check the underlying r.Fremote
+	file1.Path = "dir2/file3"
 	fstest.CheckListingWithPrecision(t, r.Fremote, []fstest.Item{file1}, []string{"dir2"}, r.Fremote.Precision())
 
 	// read only check
diff --git a/vfs/file.go b/vfs/file.go
index c4134d067323f..966e0f4f1579c 100644
--- a/vfs/file.go
+++ b/vfs/file.go
@@ -9,6 +9,7 @@ import (
 
 	"github.com/ncw/rclone/fs"
 	"github.com/ncw/rclone/fs/log"
+	"github.com/ncw/rclone/fs/operations"
 	"github.com/pkg/errors"
 )
 
@@ -108,18 +109,16 @@ func (f *File) applyPendingRename() {
 // Otherwise it will queue the rename operation on the remote until no writers
 // remain.
 func (f *File) rename(destDir *Dir, newName string) error {
-	// FIXME: could Copy then Delete if Move not available
-	// - though care needed if case insensitive...
-	doMove := f.d.f.Features().Move
-	if doMove == nil {
-		err := errors.Errorf("Fs %q can't rename files (no Move)", f.d.f)
+	if features := f.d.f.Features(); features.Move == nil && features.Copy == nil {
+		err := errors.Errorf("Fs %q can't rename files (no server side Move or Copy)", f.d.f)
 		fs.Errorf(f.Path(), "Dir.Rename error: %v", err)
 		return err
 	}
 
 	renameCall := func() error {
 		newPath := path.Join(destDir.path, newName)
-		newObject, err := doMove(f.o, newPath)
+		dstOverwritten, _ := f.d.f.NewObject(newPath)
+		newObject, err := operations.Move(f.d.f, dstOverwritten, newPath, f.o)
 		if err != nil {
 			fs.Errorf(f.Path(), "File.Rename error: %v", err)
 			return err