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is this project dead? #6747

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cool-firer opened this issue Jun 30, 2019 · 122 comments
Closed

is this project dead? #6747

cool-firer opened this issue Jun 30, 2019 · 122 comments

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@cool-firer
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@cool-firer cool-firer commented Jun 30, 2019

is RethinkDB dead?

@itamarjp
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@itamarjp itamarjp commented Jun 30, 2019

not yet

@yaneony
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@yaneony yaneony commented Jun 30, 2019

but it looks like it is...

@v3ss0n
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@v3ss0n v3ss0n commented Jul 1, 2019

@Extarys
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@Extarys Extarys commented Jul 2, 2019

It seems that contributors don't have time to help the project. There is a couple of things being worked on but it's slow. There no huge team behind the project and people have other stuff going on.

It's sad because RethinkDB have very good potential, but until a miracle person with a ton of cash can pay people to work on it, development will be slow.

@grantcarthew
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@grantcarthew grantcarthew commented Jul 3, 2019

This project is amazing however the lack of interest is having a knock-on effect.

I was working with RethinkDB heavily in the past. I wrote rethinkdb-job-queue because I had a need for a job or task queue and wanted to build it on RethinkDB.

I have since moved onto MongoDB because this project is not popular and doesn't get the love it deserves. This is a common theme I think you will find.

Not only is the database not getting love, its community is deserting it. Myself being a part of that.

I doubt it will awake from its coma as @v3ss0n has called it. I will not be moving back to RethinkDB even if it does get love. I have moved on. It's sad.

For reference: https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_trend/document+store

@4ley
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@4ley 4ley commented Jul 3, 2019

That's sad. But seems like someone is working on it. There is a beta release from 1st of April. So petty that there is no more attention. The concept is great.

@yaneony
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@yaneony yaneony commented Jul 3, 2019

The probably nearest to RethinkDB is ArangoDB. What i liked on RethinkDB is its simplicity, and even portable run :)

@cool-firer
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@cool-firer cool-firer commented Jul 5, 2019

what a pity, I like RethinkDB

@piusalfred
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@piusalfred piusalfred commented Jul 5, 2019

I like RethinkDB, It got a big potential

@ralyodio
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@ralyodio ralyodio commented Jul 5, 2019

They guys who forked it should have never rejoined, once they did that it was doomed to fail.

@traverseda
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@traverseda traverseda commented Jul 7, 2019

Yeah, not being able to install it on any of the OS's I use is making it pretty hard to even play with the project.

@TheNetJedi
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@TheNetJedi TheNetJedi commented Jul 9, 2019

@traverseda

I was able to get it to work using Docker

@srh
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@srh srh commented Jul 9, 2019

I have been insanely busy and neglectful, and too stressed out to even think. And this was definitely through fault of my own. But I have forced my schedule open. I still have one bit of work to do first. But then I will be finishing my implementation of RethinkDB with a RocksDB backend. And I plan to get that released.

Then my plan is then to make a non-free FoundationDB-based clustering backend to RethinkDB and license it to any comers. Unless anybody wanted to pay me up front to do it open source... but I've been pretty flakey lately, so I can't blame you if you don't want to do that.

There's also some work by Christina Cottrell and Linux Foundation people to help get some of the donations to the Linux Foundation put into motion to get the project's immediate needs met. I'm avoiding that (because making a closed-source FDB-based backend and then getting funding to do other tasks is kind of... awkward) but there are some other people that are doing such stuff.

So I think there is a future for you if you are using RethinkDB.

@traverseda
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@traverseda traverseda commented Jul 9, 2019

Do you anticipate the existing clustering solutions continuing to work, as well as the foundationDB? Or is this going to be a more complete rewrite?

@KittyBot
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@KittyBot KittyBot commented Jul 9, 2019

Thanks @srh

Hey everyone, I'm sorry for hopping in so late, that wont be the case after this. I'm the original community manager from Rethink and have been working with folks throughout the past few years to try and get old loose ends tied up so we can progress with future releases. Unfortunately, as is the case with most open source projects, a lot of us have been too busy to make things move as quickly as possible. For everyone who continues to stick around and make contributions (in any capacity), thank you very genuinely.

The great news is that we finally have progress on the website, slack, and stripe account, which were obstacles that were holding up a lot of the releases. I am also working on a blog post noting the current status, to thank our community contributors, partners, and talk about what we can expect in the future, etc. so please keep your eyes open for a "What's next" issue as you may be able to help me out there. :)

I've reached out to @gabor-boros who has been helping me and can provide more detailed updates on his end.

I'm pretty sure I know a lot of you already (if you have any swag, I sent it to you :)), but hello to everyone new, too. 👋

@yaneony
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@yaneony yaneony commented Jul 10, 2019

@everyone, i've created Discord channel for RethinkDB. If you feel like you want to help, need help or want to share your experience, feel free to join: https://discord.gg/dhTESz4 (for someone who not using slack, open for suggestions for additional channels).

@srh we all know how it is to make some side projects 👯‍♂ Less on time, family, etc... But, you could at least give people some "feedback" on how things are going before people start discussing on "if the project is dead". Probably that is the problem why people are getting away from RethinkDB (will they ever come back?).

RethinkDB with a RocksDB backend

So, that means that 2.4 will be based on RocksDB? What is the advantage then if people might use RocksDB directly?

Then my plan is then to make a non-free FoundationDB-based clustering backend to RethinkDB

So, as i understand, RethinkDB will be able to use multiple backend? Why not to concentrate on just one? Which advantages?

and license it to any comers.

Why not just to add Corporate support for whole RethinkDB like NGINX does? They have both versions and business runs well.

Unless anybody wanted to pay me up front to do it open source...

I wish that could happen, but i wouldn't pay for dead project unless you resurrect it (necromancer) (imho).

There's also some work by Christina Keelen and Linux Foundation people to help get some of the donations to the Linux Foundation put into motion to get the project's immediate needs met. I'm avoiding that (because making a closed-source FDB-based backend and then getting funding to do other tasks is kind of... awkward) but there are some other people that are doing such stuff.

See example of NGINX. Open source with paid support and additional modules. You also could offer SaaS service as well like others do,

@KittyBot thanks for your reply. I think a lot of people were looking for an answer what is going on here. I just hope that your message will be not last on here and we will really see some progress on RethinkDB.

Good news to know that you have some progress on website and stripe account. I think if you're going set-up some "donation" account, there will be plenty lot people (including me) who will donate few bucks per month, so you might even arrange some coders (or pay @srh) onto your side or somehow to speed-up development of version 2.4.

I wish you best luck and hope to see new version soon! 👍

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Jul 10, 2019

Hello everyone,

Thank you @KittyBot for introducing me.

@chovy, I'm one of the guys who forked the project and I was here when we merged it back. Although it seems that the development slowed when we did the merge, but we felt we had no chance to survive without the community’s support. Thanks to your contributions to Rebirth DB, The Linux Foundation generously allowed us to merge the project back so we are one community again.

As @KittyBot mentioned, we were able to build the RethinkDB website again and set up continuous deployments for it, which allows us to publish new blog posts, configure the stripe account, and of course, update the content which is a bit outdated.

Also, I'm one of the maintainers of the Python client. Nowadays, I had busy days and I had not too much time contributing to the project but it will change.

At the moment with @KittyBot we are collecting every blocker and obstacle which need to be eliminated, and we are setting up both short and long term plans to keep the community alive and loop more guys into the development of the DB.

@Jsieler, I'm glad that you created the discord channel for RethinkDB, but at this point, I would like to note that we got back the access to Slack. To set up a self-invite flow for Slack is also on our roadmap so we will be able to keep the community at one place. (or at least try it)

The communication was not our strength with the future of the project. We noted this and this will change in the future.

I would like to thank you for those who contributed to the project since it was open sourced and for those who stayed with us.

@srh
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@srh srh commented Jul 10, 2019

Do you anticipate the existing clustering solutions continuing to work, as well as the foundationDB? Or is this going to be a more complete rewrite?

The FDB-backend stuff won't be in RethinkDB's repo. So RethinkDB will continue to be the same.

So, that means that 2.4 will be based on RocksDB?

No, I'd think that would be post-2.4, since it's useful to get out a more stable version for 2.4, then release RocksDB changes (and other post-2.4 changes in next) as 2.5, if people like the RocksDB backend and want it in 2.5.

What is the advantage then if people might use RocksDB directly?

RocksDB is an internal implementation detail, it just means better performance (because RethinkDB's storage engine is craptacular), and avoids some of the bugs we've been running into (like a mysterious gc_entry_t crash, and a memory leak in 2.3.5 and 2.3.6 that some users have been seeing). It doesn't have RethinkDB's feature set, so it can't be used directly as a replacement for RethinkDB.

Do you anticipate the existing clustering solutions continuing to work, as well as the foundationDB?

Yes, because the FDB backend stuff is separate from RethinkDB.

So, as i understand, RethinkDB will be able to use multiple backend? Why not to concentrate on just one? Which advantages?

RethinkDB will be unchanged. I am concentrating on one. The advantages... I'll put my marketing copy elsewhere.

Why not just to add Corporate support for whole RethinkDB like NGINX does? They have both versions and business runs well.

I am making ReQL-on-FDB because I think it is useful to do so, and it would be a useful tool for people running RethinkDB clusters.

@ChrisTalman
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@ChrisTalman ChrisTalman commented Jul 10, 2019

Many thanks for the update, @srh. I'm sorry to hear about the stress - personal wellbeing is paramount.

Concerning funding for ReQL-on-FoundationDB, I recall that crowdfunding was considered for it at one point. It might be worth a shot before going down the licensing path.

It's preferable, in principle, for the project to be open source and available for all to use at no cost, if viable. It could also help to revive RethinkDB as a whole, by being accessible to newcomers and returning users, no questions asked. Crowdfunding could be a little less pressuring than direct funding, given that it is common for crowdfunded projects to take some time to come to fruition, and people know that.

It'd require some organisation to get off the ground, including spreading the message among the remaining Rethink community. Perhaps @KittyBot and others could lend a hand with this? If it failed to raise enough funding to support the project, the funds could be refunded, and the project could fall back on the licencing approach. But, as I say, it seems to be worth a shot, for the chance of keeping the flame of open source and open access alive.

@NetOperatorWibby
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@NetOperatorWibby NetOperatorWibby commented Jul 10, 2019

I just want to chime in here and say that I’m really enjoying RethinkDB for one of my projects. I was looking at FoundationDB but it was too confusing to setup and use. I was looking to migrate away from the frustration of MongoDB’s lack of information as to why a database wasn’t behaving, for example.

Had no idea of the history behind Rethink but I’m glad it’s not dead yet, especially since I just moved to it mere days ago.

Also good to see communication will be improving, I’ll be bugging y’all with questions soon.

@traverseda
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@traverseda traverseda commented Jul 10, 2019

Honestly I'll be happy if it can just be compiled under modern boost.

There was a time I was running a cluster across my phone and laptop using zerotier and termux. That was nice.

@ChrisTalman
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@ChrisTalman ChrisTalman commented Jul 10, 2019

@NetOperatorWibby

I was looking at FoundationDB but it was too confusing to setup and use.

I've also looked into Foundation and found its administration a little daunting. There was quite a detailed discussion about ReQL-on-FoundationDB in the Spectrum community. Unfortunately, I don't recall the precise threads. I think the takeaway was that, while Foundation might not be as straightforward to administrate as Rethink, ReQL-on-FoundationDB would be ultimately workable, with the benefits in performance, stability, and features making it worthwhile.

@thelinuxlich
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@thelinuxlich thelinuxlich commented Jul 12, 2019

Happy to hear these news!

@AaronRobinson
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@AaronRobinson AaronRobinson commented Jul 13, 2019

Yeah me too. I don't want to move away from RethinkDB. @KittyBot @gabor-boros Can I suggest that now you can deploy the website that you add a banner to the home page stating some to the effect that the project is not dead and is actively being resurrected? I use the website daily and I had no idea this conversation had been started until @srh answered one of my old posts and pointe me to it. It would encourage use. On the Discord front - yet another channel? With Slack access back I don't see why we wouldn't revert to that. Spectrum is pretty clunky IMO.

@WoLfulus
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@WoLfulus WoLfulus commented Jul 13, 2019

I also don't like Spectrum (neither Slack tbh.), discord would be nice though.

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Jul 13, 2019

@AaronRobinson Thank you for your suggestion.

Last week I spent some time to be able to redeploy the site again on an automated basis. Currently, with @KittyBot, we are revisiting the content and the website related GitHub issues.

My goal for the next week is to redeploy the site. This does not mean that everything will be up-to-date by then, but we will be able to deploy changes.

As I mentioned before, communication was not our strength until now. I would like to inform you about the changes around RethinkDB on a weekly basis (at least I would try it).

Related to Slack, I'm actively working on to open up slack again for everyone who would like to join. I think this will be done by the middle of next week.

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Jul 13, 2019

I also don't like Spectrum (neither Slack tbh.), discord would be nice though.

@WoLfulus I totally understand this. Although I'm not against discord (really), we have a lot of people at Slack, and we need to get their confidence back. If we switch platform now for communication, I believe, we miss the opportunity to reach those members.

@AaronRobinson
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@AaronRobinson AaronRobinson commented Jul 14, 2019

@srh why RocksDB versus the other kv stores?

@v3ss0n
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@v3ss0n v3ss0n commented Jul 14, 2019

@srh RocksDB or FDB , if anything breaks realtime-ness of rethinkdb , it will throw many of the remaining users.

The main reason for using rethinkdb were realtime things can be done easily with reql + changefeed .

Please consider many of the main rethinkdb users...
Jumping between KV Stores are showing the lack of direction too..

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Nov 22, 2019

For those who did not seen @KittyBot’s message on slack:

Sorry to interrupt 🙂 I just wanted to share that we've opened up a PR to discuss the governance model for RethinkDB and we would love everyone's input. I'll pin this to the top of the channel, too. Here's the tweet, too, if you'd like to share. 🙂 Thanks!

https://twitter.com/rethinkdb/status/1197584153681825793

Cheers 🥂🎉

@Bessonov
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@Bessonov Bessonov commented Nov 30, 2019

Worth mention the effort to run rethinkdb on kubernetes:
https://github.com/jmckind/rethinkdb-operator

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Nov 30, 2019

Exactly! We are trying to collect everything before the next release, and this is on my list as well, to (at least) mention the project on the website. Personally, I would like to have bigger support for cloud-native tech stacks.

@srh
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@srh srh commented Dec 2, 2019

What do you mean you're trying to collect everything? What needs to be done before the next release?

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Dec 3, 2019

In my opinion the following is needed (not complete list since I’m tired):

  • Release notes
  • Fixing everything in the 2.4.x GitHub project
  • Fixing homebrew releasing
  • Contact driver maintainers
  • Release new driver versions (or be able to release them)
  • Update the docs (with your PR)
  • Update examples
  • Add new 2.4.x specific examples
  • Update Dockerfiles
  • Update DigitalOcean image

Generally these are in my head, but I’ll organize these and solve them until the end of the week

@fintechdata
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@fintechdata fintechdata commented Dec 17, 2019

is the donation page still working?

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Dec 17, 2019

@wtfp2p What do you mean? This is the donation page we have 😊 https://funding.communitybridge.org/projects/rethinkdb

@gabor-boros gabor-boros moved this from To do to In progress in Release v2.4 Dec 18, 2019
@mgttt
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@mgttt mgttt commented Dec 19, 2019

@gabor-boros the website (https://funding.communitybridge.org/projects/rethinkdb) return "Failed to create card." when add credit card, and no response from their help-desk...
In this case I suggest add new donation channel....

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Dec 19, 2019

@wanjochan Ohh that is really unfortunate 😟 I’ll contact LF about what should be done in cases like yours. I’ll keep you informed about this

@agnies-w
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@agnies-w agnies-w commented Dec 19, 2019

Hello @wanjochan and @gabor-boros - We've been receiving regular donations to projects on CommunityBridge. I just spoke with our Helpdesk and we don't have a support ticket from you. Please file a support ticket with our Helpdesk at https://jira.linuxfoundation.org/servicedesk/customer/portal/4 and provide more details on the issue. It's best to interact with our Helpdesk via JIRA to not expose personal information on GitHub issues. Thank you.

@ShubhraKar
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@ShubhraKar ShubhraKar commented Dec 19, 2019

Hey folks, I just made a donation using credit card. I logged in with my GitHub ID and added my card. Worked for me fine. It did prompt me to enter my zip and CVC code. Maybe because I am in a US zip code, there isn't an issue ?

@AaronRobinson
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@AaronRobinson AaronRobinson commented Dec 19, 2019

@mgttt
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@mgttt mgttt commented Dec 19, 2019

@agnies-w new ticket created ( https://jira.linuxfoundation.org/servicedesk/customer/portal/2/IT-18580 ) and I've just tried again on ( https://funding.communitybridge.org/projects/rethinkdb ) it remains failed, which my cards (tried Visa or Mastercard) are sure working fine.

WeChate4f9f663dc6d5271b9b798eb7f14a266

@mgttt
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@mgttt mgttt commented Dec 19, 2019

@ShubhraKar I've tried my Visa issued from China and Mastercard issued from Australia, which cards I used all the time without any problem. From the errmsg "Failed to create card." I really got no ideas...

@ShubhraKar
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@ShubhraKar ShubhraKar commented Dec 20, 2019

@wanjochan the LF support team is looking into it. Thanks for creating the ticket. Definitely some bug or a stripe limitations as 3 donations were made today successfully. We will chase it down. Hang on.

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Dec 20, 2019

Since this is under investigation by LF (as @ShubhraKar mentioned), and the new release is out, I'm closing this issue. For those who missed it and wondering what I'm talking about: https://twitter.com/rethinkdb/status/1207730230175191043?s=20

Based on Stuart's suggestion in the twitter comments see my next comment.

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Dec 20, 2019

No.

Release v2.4 automation moved this from In progress to Done Dec 20, 2019
@gabor-boros gabor-boros unpinned this issue Dec 20, 2019
@sandipndev
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@sandipndev sandipndev commented Mar 22, 2020

I have just started looking for an open-source real-time database and rethinkdb is what the entire internet seems to be talking about. But I am also reading the project is supposed to be dead yet there are some commits over the last 2 months.

I hope this project doesn't go dead. It's an amazing one.

@Thiploll
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@Thiploll Thiploll commented Mar 22, 2020

I have just started looking for an open-source real-time database and rethinkdb is what the entire internet seems to be talking about. But I am also reading the project is supposed to be dead yet there are some commits over the last 2 months.

I hope this project doesn't go dead. It's an amazing one.

The project was re-opened not so long ago, the makers are looking for some funding.
I have been using rethinkdb for some while now and its very amazing, I like the clustering and performance.

@gabor-boros
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@gabor-boros gabor-boros commented Apr 16, 2020

@Thiploll and @triethyl Thank you for caring about RethinkDB ❤️

I would like to point out that everything slowed down due to the situation around the world, but we still care about the project too and waiting for contributors to help us. 😊

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