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Add RFC for officially adopting Ferris #2328

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@mgattozzi
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mgattozzi commented Feb 8, 2018

This RFC does two things:

  • Adopts Ferris as the official Rust mascot
  • Sets up a way to rebrand Ferris with each passing epoch and method
    by which to choose it.

rendered

# Summary
[summary]: #summary
Officially adopt Ferris as the mascot for the current epoch and have a new

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@Manishearth

Manishearth Feb 8, 2018

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IMO we can keep Ferris as the mascot for Rust itself, and have an epoch mascot as well.

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@Centril

Centril Feb 8, 2018

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I agree with @Manishearth; We can use prior art by the android open source project (ASOP) and give each epoch a code-name as well as a new look for Ferris based on the code-name...

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@mgattozzi

mgattozzi Feb 12, 2018

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@Manishearth this was another thing I had considered, but had opted for ferris dressed up with each epoch. Mostly because I was unsure if people would be receptive to more than one mascot. Prior not released wordings had the reasoning that it's what an epoch is "Newer versions playing well with older ones" and each one Ferris gets a new friend to play with.

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@Manishearth

Manishearth Feb 12, 2018

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Idk, Ferris is already quite established as the Rust community mascot, retiring them because it's only the 2015 epoch doesn't seem great to me.

@Centril Centril added the T-core label Feb 8, 2018

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Centril commented Feb 8, 2018

It would be nice to wait until Ferris turns 4 years old and merge this RFC as a birthday present.

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Manishearth commented Feb 8, 2018

T-community for the entire contest aspect

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edunham commented Feb 8, 2018

Can Ferris have a special hat or accessory for each epoch?

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aldeka commented Feb 8, 2018

I don't entirely understand the epoch proposal but I'm down for '19 necktie (for example). ❤️

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CryZe commented Feb 8, 2018

Recently BBC One released a video about a very small and cute cat species called the "Rusty Spotted Cat": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86cTIoMv2U

The cat is extremely cute and with such a fitting name, we decided to draw "Rusty" as a little companion for Ferris (Aurorans Solis on the Rust Discord drew it):

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/273539705595756544/411268292863459339/Rusty_Square.png

I propose that we should consider using Rusty as possibly one of the epoch mascots.

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aldeka commented Feb 8, 2018

Ferris having cute epoch buddies also makes sense to me! (Also I need an excuse to draw a better version of turbofish.)

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Gankro commented Feb 8, 2018

Just to be clear, this is the canonical version of ferris we would encourage events to use, yes?

gottagofast

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Ixrec commented Feb 8, 2018

A long time ago I facetiously suggested we name our epochs after various crustaceans like "hermit crab" and "mantis shrimp", similar to Android's dessert-based version naming.

At the risk of overthinking this: Assuming epochs happen roughly every couple years, it seems like overkill to try and come up with a brand new mascot character every time (regardless of whether they're "only a mascot for this epoch"), whereas it should be straightforward to create tons of variations on the Ferris design that resemble other crustaceans.

On the other hand, I love the idea of "turbofish"...

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aldeka commented Feb 8, 2018

I dunno. One piece of art every 2-4 years doesn't seem thaaaat strenuous; Ubuntu manages it twice a year, after all. It almost seems like a benefit if the different epochs have differing art/design styles; it distinguishes the releases more if one release "poster" is all intricate Art Deco, another is more cartoony, etc.

I also kind of like the idea of people saying things like "does your package support kitty rust? or just wheat rust?" or what have you ^_^ I am also happy with Ferris drawn wearing and/or doing all sorts of things!

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mark-i-m commented Feb 9, 2018

On the other hand, I love the idea of "turbofish"...

👍 👍 👍 🐟

@ashleygwilliams

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ashleygwilliams commented Feb 9, 2018

hi! comm team lead here. i have a couple of ideas on this RFC:

  1. i dont think design/branding by consensus/vote is a terribly great idea. it's a lot of work to run a contest and inevitably there will be a situation where we either don't have any good submissions or the submissions don't adhere to a consistent style. these would both put us in a tricky situation.
  2. as a result, i think i would change this RFC to the following:
    • do not adopt Ferris as an official mascot (i don't think this is a necessary step for achieving the goal of this RFC and if we did it would bring about a bunch of legal work that no one wants to do. this could also prevent unofficial rust projects from using Ferris and i don't think anyone wants that.)
    • contract($) Karen(@aldeka, creator of Ferris), if she is willing, to design a Ferris per epoch, the theme of which can have community input but is fundamentally Karen's choice, as per approval by the Rust teams (via a consensus seeking process)

tl;dr:

  • we dont need ferris to be an official mascot (legal shenanigans are not fun)
  • epoch mascots would be awesome!
  • design by contest is a lot of work
  • design by consensus leads to middling results at best
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Centril commented Feb 10, 2018

@ashleygwilliams

  • if we did it would bring about a bunch of legal work that no one wants to do

Hmm... does that follow automatically? Ferris is already under the public domain. Any combined / derivative works can then simply be auto-CLA:ed as we do with RFCs and commits to the rust repo upon submission.

  • design by contest is a lot of work
  • design by consensus leads to middling results at best

Agreed

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mgattozzi commented Feb 12, 2018

@ashleygwilliams would it be possible to officially adopt but still make it public domain by renouncing copyright claims or is that still legal shennanigans that would be too tough?

Also contracting out an epoch version of Ferris each time instead of a contest would be fine if contests tend to make meh based results.

Another question just to clarify would the epoch mascot that others have brought up be another option that wouldn't be too difficult?

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Manishearth commented Feb 12, 2018

I mean, we can't un-public-domain Ferris anyway (nor should we); I don't think that's the issue.

[motivation]: #motivation
Ferris has been a part of the community for many years and used as an unofficial
mascot for Rust. Our nickname Rustacean is a reference to Ferris the Crustacean.

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@chris-morgan

chris-morgan Feb 15, 2018

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Ferris is Ferris the Rustacean, not Ferris the Crustacean. “Our nickname Rustacean came from Ferris the Rustacean (being a play on crustacean).” would work.

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chris-morgan commented Feb 15, 2018

For reference: Inkscape’s about screen. Each new major release has an about screen contest where artwork is submitted, voted on by the community, the works. It works pretty well for them, though it is a fair amount of work.

Of course, that makes more sense for Inkscape, being an art-centred product. But the Rust community is large enough that I believe that something similar would work for us as well. Incidentally I don’t see maintaining a consistent style as a goal at all. If it happens, so be it, but I see nothing intrinsically valuable about stylistic consistency.

@ashleygwilliams What legal shenanigans are there with officially adopting Ferris as the mascot?

What does the word “official” even mean? If you’re using it on official materials, even if it is not de jure official, it is de facto official.

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kennytm commented Feb 16, 2018

I guess the problem is trademark, not copyright 🤔

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mgattozzi commented Feb 20, 2018

Man legal stuff is hard. Okay I'll make updates on the non legality stuff soon, but I think we'll need to clarify that more.

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ashleygwilliams commented Feb 20, 2018

yeah so, to clarify on the legal shenanigans stuff, mostly i would not want us to trademark it. it already being public domain is a bump there that others have also mentioned. mostly, though, i also think the way "official" gets thrown around in rust, particularly in the community, is quite complicated (we've got some big convos going on in the community team right now about it.)

previously i stated that i don't think we need Ferris to be official because i think it is unnecessary for the success of the thrust of this RFC. i like this RFC but i would like to get it to pass with the least number of things to change and i don't think making Ferris an official mascot is needed to get something like this done. aiming for the simplest possible solution here.

i do think that making Ferris official would run us into some trouble. i'm not gonna elaborate too much here but as the current "'official' police" of the rust community, i think everything goes a little bit better if we apply "official" judiciously and sparingly; mostly only in places where designating that something was the work of the core/official teams is important and makes a difference. i'm not sure that needs to be the case in this instance.

de facto vs de jure here is interesting but since we already have a Very de jure official logo i think we stick with that. i want Ferris to be a For the Community By the Community situation and i'd like to avoid complicating it, at least at the moment.

i've been speaking with @aldeka and i think a themed Ferris per epoch sounds quite awesome and do-able and would be by far the simplest solution to this. i'm open to people who have other ideas but i'm mostly trying to figure out what the real thrust of this RFC is and help that succeed and avoiding anything that might cause more (unpleasant and unecessary) work.

@Manishearth

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Manishearth commented Feb 20, 2018

Proposed an RFC amendment in line with what @ashleygwilliams says at mgattozzi#1

Merge pull request #1 from Manishearth/adopt
Remove officializing Ferris, remove contest
or project managers in charge of what gets used. As things change though we also want to be able to
convey that to users who might not have picked up or used Rust since the last epoch. In this way we
can have Ferris wear a new costume every epoch, or have an epoch-specific critter mascot much like
Ubundu does. It also conveys what we mean by [what an epoch is]: Each epoch plays nicely with the

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@ashleygwilliams

ashleygwilliams Feb 20, 2018

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spelling (s/Ubundu/Ubuntu)

# Unresolved questions
[unresolved]: #unresolved-questions
Should we also be naming the epochs?

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@ashleygwilliams

ashleygwilliams Feb 20, 2018

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i believe that @rust-lang/core said they would be named by year (she says realizing she is on core). i'll sort this!

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@mark-i-m

mark-i-m Feb 20, 2018

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Sure but they could also have a nick name...

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@steveklabnik

steveklabnik Feb 20, 2018

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Precendent would be something like Android; version 2.3 is "gingerbread" and version 4.0 is "ice cream sandwich"

officially, we've only decided to name them by year, but we could do "code names". that feels like a different RFC in some sense... though i guess maybe not

@aldeka

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aldeka commented Feb 25, 2018

2015:

2015

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aldeka commented Feb 25, 2018

2018:

2018

@Manishearth

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Manishearth commented Feb 25, 2018

I love these! Especially because they work both as an entire bit of scenery, or just a costume for Ferris -- the big pictures can be kept as "cover page"-style things, and if you just need a small logo you can have Ferris in the costume and nothing else.

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Centril commented Oct 12, 2018

Triage: @rust-lang/core Nothing much has happened here since February... :(
Would be nice to drive the RFC to completion in some direction =P

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ashleygwilliams commented Oct 31, 2018

Hey folks!

There was a lot of amazing creativity on this thread, but as @Centril rightly points out, it's largely gone stale. Similar to the notes I made previously, I believe keeping Ferris as our mascot doesn't require a bump to make them Official in any capacity. Additionally, I think we'd need to continue to grow out the community team and have several champions begin to organize there for any sort of Official design effort, be a contest, or otherwise. I want to encourage everyone to keep making Rust awesome with super creative Ferris designs, however, I am commenting to move to close this RFC. If folks are interested in this more- I would encourage them to become observers in the community team and try to build resources that could one day help maintain and support a future effort like the one proposed here. <3

@rfcbot fcp close

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rfcbot commented Oct 31, 2018

Team member @ashleygwilliams has proposed to close this. The next step is review by the rest of the tagged teams:

No concerns currently listed.

Once a majority of reviewers approve (and none object), this will enter its final comment period. If you spot a major issue that hasn't been raised at any point in this process, please speak up!

See this document for info about what commands tagged team members can give me.

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rfcbot commented Nov 19, 2018

🔔 This is now entering its final comment period, as per the review above. 🔔

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rfcbot commented Nov 29, 2018

The final comment period, with a disposition to close, as per the review above, is now complete.

By the power vested in me by Rust, I hereby close this RFC.

@rfcbot rfcbot added closed and removed disposition-close labels Nov 29, 2018

@rfcbot rfcbot closed this Nov 29, 2018

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