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Course, CourseInstance, EducationEvent [Schema.org Course Extension] #195

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westurner opened this Issue Dec 11, 2014 · 98 comments

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@westurner
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westurner commented Dec 11, 2014

.

Goals:

  • schema.org/Course , schema.org/CourseSection , schema.org/EducationEvent

SCHEMA COURSE EXTENSION COMMUNITY GROUP

This mission of this group, initiated by LRMI, is to develop an extension for schema.org concerning the discovery of any type of educational course (online/offline, long/short, scheduled/on-demand). Educational course is defined as "some sequence of events and/or creative works which aims to build the knowledge, competence or ability of learners". (Out of scope: information about students and their progression etc; information needed internally for course management rather than discovery).

-- https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/

Products:

Examples:

Discussion Mailing List Threads:

Use Cases / Potential Implementors (Culled from the Mailing List):

Release notes:

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westurner Dec 11, 2014

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What is missing or could be added?

From http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0130.html :

Properties:

  • derivedFrom/previousIncantation property could also be helpful.
  • prerequisite/buildsUpon/suggestedPrerequisite properties would be great.

Types for these properties would need to be <Course >.

... This would then form a graph of Course s and/or OnlineCourse s.

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westurner commented Dec 11, 2014

What is missing or could be added?

From http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0130.html :

Properties:

  • derivedFrom/previousIncantation property could also be helpful.
  • prerequisite/buildsUpon/suggestedPrerequisite properties would be great.

Types for these properties would need to be <Course >.

... This would then form a graph of Course s and/or OnlineCourse s.

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westurner Dec 11, 2014

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Also from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0130.html :

Classes:

  • CourseSection

Possible properties for a CourseSection:

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westurner commented Dec 11, 2014

Also from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0130.html :

Classes:

  • CourseSection

Possible properties for a CourseSection:

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parklize Dec 15, 2014

Now in the example, EducationEvent that already exist in schema.org (which has many properties like startDate, endDate)is being used for describing CourseSection.

It will be more clear by using new Type like CourseSection, but then we need to think more general type like Section.

parklize commented Dec 15, 2014

Now in the example, EducationEvent that already exist in schema.org (which has many properties like startDate, endDate)is being used for describing CourseSection.

It will be more clear by using new Type like CourseSection, but then we need to think more general type like Section.

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vholland Dec 15, 2014

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I am trying to pull together the various threads and have put together a modified proposal that:

  • Supports Courses (online and off)
  • Supports sections of courses

Please take a look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing

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vholland commented Dec 15, 2014

I am trying to pull together the various threads and have put together a modified proposal that:

  • Supports Courses (online and off)
  • Supports sections of courses

Please take a look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing

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parklize commented Dec 15, 2014

Thanks:)

@westurner westurner changed the title from Thing > CreativeWork > Course > OnlineCourse to Thing > CreativeWork > Course Dec 16, 2014

@danbri danbri added this to the 2015 Q1 milestone Jan 21, 2015

@vholland vholland self-assigned this Jan 22, 2015

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jgoodell2 Mar 5, 2015

Building on Vicki's work I suggested changes to the Google doc (1) based on what seems to be areas of consensus on the discussion threads and comments within the doc.

I'm afraid that there are different threads/communities with definitions that may work fine within a narrow purpose, but have conceptual errors when trying to apply the vocabulary more universally. The approach discussed in the group seems to be headed in the right direction. How can we bring the different communities together on this?

For example, moocontology (2) has "instructor" and "event" as properties of Course rather than defining a CourseSection. This can create ambiguity when multiple Course Sections are offered at the same or different times. e.g. This month EdX started a Section of "Introduction to Computational Thinking and Data Science" (course number 6.00.2x). This is not the first time the course was offered. The course content/description is the same for each instance, but the start and end dates change, and the instructors may change over time. There could be Sections going on concurrently with different instructors, but the same course number, learning objectives, description.

I know there are discussions about Course as an extension to schema.org, rather than core; even so, I think we should try to get the different communities together so Course isn't defined as different things by different communities.

-jim

(1) https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing
(2) https://sites.google.com/site/moocontology/

jgoodell2 commented Mar 5, 2015

Building on Vicki's work I suggested changes to the Google doc (1) based on what seems to be areas of consensus on the discussion threads and comments within the doc.

I'm afraid that there are different threads/communities with definitions that may work fine within a narrow purpose, but have conceptual errors when trying to apply the vocabulary more universally. The approach discussed in the group seems to be headed in the right direction. How can we bring the different communities together on this?

For example, moocontology (2) has "instructor" and "event" as properties of Course rather than defining a CourseSection. This can create ambiguity when multiple Course Sections are offered at the same or different times. e.g. This month EdX started a Section of "Introduction to Computational Thinking and Data Science" (course number 6.00.2x). This is not the first time the course was offered. The course content/description is the same for each instance, but the start and end dates change, and the instructors may change over time. There could be Sections going on concurrently with different instructors, but the same course number, learning objectives, description.

I know there are discussions about Course as an extension to schema.org, rather than core; even so, I think we should try to get the different communities together so Course isn't defined as different things by different communities.

-jim

(1) https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing
(2) https://sites.google.com/site/moocontology/

@westurner westurner changed the title from Thing > CreativeWork > Course to Thing > Intangible > Course Mar 5, 2015

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westurner Mar 6, 2015

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Is it CourseSession or CourseSection?

(It was CourseSession, but was changed without discussion to CourseSection).

  • I vote for "CourseSession". To me, Section implies a physical partitioning; which does not fit.
Contributor

westurner commented Mar 6, 2015

Is it CourseSession or CourseSection?

(It was CourseSession, but was changed without discussion to CourseSection).

  • I vote for "CourseSession". To me, Section implies a physical partitioning; which does not fit.
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parklize Mar 6, 2015

+1 to "CourseSession", Coursera and Stanford MOOC use "session".

Coursera API: https://tech.coursera.org/app-platform/catalog/
Stanford Online: http://online.stanford.edu/courses/all

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Wes Turner notifications@github.com
wrote:

Is it CourseSession or CourseSection?

(It was CourseSession, but was changed without discussion to
CourseSection).

  • I vote for "CourseSession". To me, Section implies a physical
    partitioning; which does not fit.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#195 (comment).


To be Sharer^^

A man is not old as long as he is seeking something.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.

Email: parklize@gmail.com

parklize commented Mar 6, 2015

+1 to "CourseSession", Coursera and Stanford MOOC use "session".

Coursera API: https://tech.coursera.org/app-platform/catalog/
Stanford Online: http://online.stanford.edu/courses/all

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Wes Turner notifications@github.com
wrote:

Is it CourseSession or CourseSection?

(It was CourseSession, but was changed without discussion to
CourseSection).

  • I vote for "CourseSession". To me, Section implies a physical
    partitioning; which does not fit.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#195 (comment).


To be Sharer^^

A man is not old as long as he is seeking something.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.

Email: parklize@gmail.com

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stuartasutton Apr 1, 2015

CourseSession and CourseSection are totally different beasts. A Course may have many CourseSections and CourseSections may have many CourseSessions. For example, at the Univ. of Washington (Seattle) there is a course in the University inventory (catalog) called "Metadata Design Studio". This spring quarter, there are two CourseSections of this Course (SLN 15343 and SLN 15344). This week, (the section I teach) SLN 15344 is in the second CourseSession of the spring quarter. I am less concerned about what Coursera and the Stanfod MOOC call things than with the pattern that holds in the nomenclature of thousands of colleges and universities--at least in the U.S.

stuartasutton commented Apr 1, 2015

CourseSession and CourseSection are totally different beasts. A Course may have many CourseSections and CourseSections may have many CourseSessions. For example, at the Univ. of Washington (Seattle) there is a course in the University inventory (catalog) called "Metadata Design Studio". This spring quarter, there are two CourseSections of this Course (SLN 15343 and SLN 15344). This week, (the section I teach) SLN 15344 is in the second CourseSession of the spring quarter. I am less concerned about what Coursera and the Stanfod MOOC call things than with the pattern that holds in the nomenclature of thousands of colleges and universities--at least in the U.S.

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philbarker Apr 15, 2015

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hello. I have been thinking about the scope and use cases for this proposal. The discussion above starts with a bullet point referring to "online courses" but I think we have gone beyond that. Also I can see lots of potential implementers above, but nothing about use cases that relate to what a user might want to do.
My initial ideas are at http://goo.gl/DnTTsb I would welcome comments/corrections. Apologies if they are sketchy, I wanted to share early rather than make unwarranted assumptions.

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philbarker commented Apr 15, 2015

hello. I have been thinking about the scope and use cases for this proposal. The discussion above starts with a bullet point referring to "online courses" but I think we have gone beyond that. Also I can see lots of potential implementers above, but nothing about use cases that relate to what a user might want to do.
My initial ideas are at http://goo.gl/DnTTsb I would welcome comments/corrections. Apologies if they are sketchy, I wanted to share early rather than make unwarranted assumptions.

@danbri danbri modified the milestones: 2015 Q1, 2015 Q2 Apr 17, 2015

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philbarker May 28, 2015

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hello. I have fleshed out the ideas I mentioned before for more specific scope and use cases, still in google doc at http://goo.gl/DnTTsb . Any comments? I think it would be useful to compare the proposals to these use cases and some examples, but it'ls also be good to have some agreement that the use cases are valid and nothing major is missing before doing that.

Is a google doc the best place to do this, would you rather have it on github somewhere?

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philbarker commented May 28, 2015

hello. I have fleshed out the ideas I mentioned before for more specific scope and use cases, still in google doc at http://goo.gl/DnTTsb . Any comments? I think it would be useful to compare the proposals to these use cases and some examples, but it'ls also be good to have some agreement that the use cases are valid and nothing major is missing before doing that.

Is a google doc the best place to do this, would you rather have it on github somewhere?

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westurner May 28, 2015

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@philbarker I've updated the ticket description w/ the link to your google doc containing use cases for these vocabulary extensions.

I think it would be great to build the tests for these use cases (in JSON-LD, RDFa, or just RDF TTL/N3). (the JSON-LD test suite http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/ uses earl for similar reports: http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/ )

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westurner commented May 28, 2015

@philbarker I've updated the ticket description w/ the link to your google doc containing use cases for these vocabulary extensions.

I think it would be great to build the tests for these use cases (in JSON-LD, RDFa, or just RDF TTL/N3). (the JSON-LD test suite http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/ uses earl for similar reports: http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/ )

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philbarker Jun 1, 2015

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Thanks @westurner . I do intend to cross check the use cases against some of the example courses listed above and in the scoping part of the google doc and against the current proposal. I'm not sure that my technical skills extend to building tests along the lines you point to, or what data there is to test (none yet, or maybe I am misunderstanding?)

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philbarker commented Jun 1, 2015

Thanks @westurner . I do intend to cross check the use cases against some of the example courses listed above and in the scoping part of the google doc and against the current proposal. I'm not sure that my technical skills extend to building tests along the lines you point to, or what data there is to test (none yet, or maybe I am misunderstanding?)

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westurner Jun 1, 2015

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Thanks! Really just JSON-LD and RDFa examples that demonstrably (and
recordedly) evaluate to valid RDFa.

To be clear, I opened this ticket but by no means should this be construed
to indicate leadership on this issue. (It may be helpful to start reaching
out for more input from e.g. a registrar's office: I believe we're
currently missing a way to represent prerequisite edges)
On Jun 1, 2015 4:09 AM, "Phil Barker" notifications@github.com wrote:

Thanks @westurner https://github.com/westurner . I do intend to cross
check the use cases against some of the example courses listed above and in
the scoping part of the google doc and against the current proposal. I'm
not sure that my technical skills extend to building tests along the lines
you point to, or what data there is to test (none yet, or maybe I am
misunderstanding?)


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#195 (comment)
.

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westurner commented Jun 1, 2015

Thanks! Really just JSON-LD and RDFa examples that demonstrably (and
recordedly) evaluate to valid RDFa.

To be clear, I opened this ticket but by no means should this be construed
to indicate leadership on this issue. (It may be helpful to start reaching
out for more input from e.g. a registrar's office: I believe we're
currently missing a way to represent prerequisite edges)
On Jun 1, 2015 4:09 AM, "Phil Barker" notifications@github.com wrote:

Thanks @westurner https://github.com/westurner . I do intend to cross
check the use cases against some of the example courses listed above and in
the scoping part of the google doc and against the current proposal. I'm
not sure that my technical skills extend to building tests along the lines
you point to, or what data there is to test (none yet, or maybe I am
misunderstanding?)


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#195 (comment)
.

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danbri Dec 14, 2015

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@westurner - Phil and I had a quick chat about prerequisites last week. He pointed out that we should try to have a mechanism for this which is compatible with our approach to representing learning outcomes. Doing so will make it easier to chain together learning opportunities from a larger pool...

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danbri commented Dec 14, 2015

@westurner - Phil and I had a quick chat about prerequisites last week. He pointed out that we should try to have a mechanism for this which is compatible with our approach to representing learning outcomes. Doing so will make it easier to chain together learning opportunities from a larger pool...

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danbri Dec 14, 2015

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BTW please note that we now have a new W3C Community Group devoted to Course description: https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/

From schema.org's point of view this issue #195 is probably the best interface between schema.org in general and Course-specific issues, so let's try to keep this issue up to date with any major progress or discussion points, even if more activity moves into the new and more specific Community Group.

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danbri commented Dec 14, 2015

BTW please note that we now have a new W3C Community Group devoted to Course description: https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/

From schema.org's point of view this issue #195 is probably the best interface between schema.org in general and Course-specific issues, so let's try to keep this issue up to date with any major progress or discussion points, even if more activity moves into the new and more specific Community Group.

@westurner westurner changed the title from Thing > Intangible > Course to schema.org/Course schema.org/CourseSection schema.org/EducationEvent Jan 5, 2016

westurner added a commit to westurner/opengov that referenced this issue Jan 5, 2016

@westurner westurner changed the title from schema.org/Course schema.org/CourseSection schema.org/EducationEvent to schema.org/Course , schema.org/CourseSection , schema.org/EducationEvent Jan 6, 2016

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From schema.org's point of view this issue #195 is probably the best interface between schema.org in general and Course-specific issues, so let's try to keep this issue up to date with any major progress or discussion points, even if more activity moves into the new and more specific Community Group

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westurner commented Jan 13, 2016

From schema.org's point of view this issue #195 is probably the best interface between schema.org in general and Course-specific issues, so let's try to keep this issue up to date with any major progress or discussion points, even if more activity moves into the new and more specific Community Group

westurner added a commit to westurner/schemaorg that referenced this issue Jan 20, 2016

@westurner westurner referenced this issue Jan 20, 2016

Open

Schema.org Course Extension RDFa & Examples #972

2 of 4 tasks complete

@westurner westurner changed the title from schema.org/Course , schema.org/CourseSection , schema.org/EducationEvent to schema.org/Course , schema.org/CourseSection , schema.org/EducationEvent [ Schema.org Course Extension ] Jan 20, 2016

@danbri danbri removed the type:enhancement label Mar 7, 2016

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@Gloyns

MULTIPLE COURSE EXAMPLE

<script type="application/ld+json">
{
 "@context": "http://schema.org",
 "@type": "ItemList",
 "itemListElement" : [
 {
 "@type": "ListItem",
 "position": 1,
 "url" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=208&ProgramID=10",
 "item": 
{
 "@type": "Course",
 "name": "H170690 NURSING ASSISTANT (CNA)",
"courseCode" : "H170690",
"image" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/assets/img/logo_lamp.png",
"grantsCredential" : "Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)",
"previewUrl" :  "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=208&ProgramID=10",
 "description": "This program prepares students for employment in a variety of health care settings including doctor’s offices, walk-in clinics, outpatient facilities, hospitals, and urgent care centers. The content includes, but is not limited to, interpersonal skills, medical terminology, legal and ethical responsibilities, safe and efficient work, gerontology, nutrition, pet-facilitated therapy, health and safety including Cardio-pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) – heart saver level, and employability skills.",
 "provider": {
   "@type": "Organization",
   "name": "School District of Hillsborough County Florida - Technical Programs",
   "sameAs": "http://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/doc/list/hillsborough-technical-colleges/program-areas/103-823/"
 }
}
},
{
"@type": "ListItem",
"position": 2,
"url" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=243&ProgramID=10",
"item":
{
 "@context": "http://schema.org",
 "@type": "Course",
"courseCode" : "H170605",
"image" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/assets/img/logo_lamp.png",
"grantsCredential" : ["Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)", "Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN)"],
"previewUrl" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=243&ProgramID=10",
 "name":"H170605 PRACTICAL NURSING (LPN)",
 "description": "The program is designed to enable individuals to achieve instructional objectives in the following content areas: nursing skills, life span, nutrition, anatomy and physiology, medical nursing, surgical nursing, pediatric nursing, geriatric nursing, personal and community health, pharmacology, employability skills, leadership and human relations skills. Fifty percent of the training is spent in the clinical areas and includes: maternal and newborn, pediatrics, medical/surgical, and experience in extended care facilities. Clinical placement is determined through the Coordinating Council, may begin as early as 6:30 am and include out of county facilities. Successful program completion prepares students for the National Council Licensure Examination for Florida (NCLEX). Students completing the program receive credits toward a Registered Nurse A.S. Degree at Hillsborough Community College or any community college in the statewide system. Please contact the colleges for additional information.",
 "provider": {
   "@type": "Organization",
   "name": "School District of Hillsborough County Florida - Technical Programs",
   "sameAs": "http://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/doc/list/hillsborough-technical-colleges/program-areas/103-823/"
 }
}
}
]
} 
</script>

karindpowell commented Oct 14, 2016

@Gloyns

MULTIPLE COURSE EXAMPLE

<script type="application/ld+json">
{
 "@context": "http://schema.org",
 "@type": "ItemList",
 "itemListElement" : [
 {
 "@type": "ListItem",
 "position": 1,
 "url" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=208&ProgramID=10",
 "item": 
{
 "@type": "Course",
 "name": "H170690 NURSING ASSISTANT (CNA)",
"courseCode" : "H170690",
"image" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/assets/img/logo_lamp.png",
"grantsCredential" : "Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)",
"previewUrl" :  "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=208&ProgramID=10",
 "description": "This program prepares students for employment in a variety of health care settings including doctor’s offices, walk-in clinics, outpatient facilities, hospitals, and urgent care centers. The content includes, but is not limited to, interpersonal skills, medical terminology, legal and ethical responsibilities, safe and efficient work, gerontology, nutrition, pet-facilitated therapy, health and safety including Cardio-pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) – heart saver level, and employability skills.",
 "provider": {
   "@type": "Organization",
   "name": "School District of Hillsborough County Florida - Technical Programs",
   "sameAs": "http://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/doc/list/hillsborough-technical-colleges/program-areas/103-823/"
 }
}
},
{
"@type": "ListItem",
"position": 2,
"url" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=243&ProgramID=10",
"item":
{
 "@context": "http://schema.org",
 "@type": "Course",
"courseCode" : "H170605",
"image" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/assets/img/logo_lamp.png",
"grantsCredential" : ["Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)", "Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN)"],
"previewUrl" : "http://www2.sdhc.k12.fl.us/LYNX/HiTecIFrameKDP.asp?CourseID=243&ProgramID=10",
 "name":"H170605 PRACTICAL NURSING (LPN)",
 "description": "The program is designed to enable individuals to achieve instructional objectives in the following content areas: nursing skills, life span, nutrition, anatomy and physiology, medical nursing, surgical nursing, pediatric nursing, geriatric nursing, personal and community health, pharmacology, employability skills, leadership and human relations skills. Fifty percent of the training is spent in the clinical areas and includes: maternal and newborn, pediatrics, medical/surgical, and experience in extended care facilities. Clinical placement is determined through the Coordinating Council, may begin as early as 6:30 am and include out of county facilities. Successful program completion prepares students for the National Council Licensure Examination for Florida (NCLEX). Students completing the program receive credits toward a Registered Nurse A.S. Degree at Hillsborough Community College or any community college in the statewide system. Please contact the colleges for additional information.",
 "provider": {
   "@type": "Organization",
   "name": "School District of Hillsborough County Florida - Technical Programs",
   "sameAs": "http://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/doc/list/hillsborough-technical-colleges/program-areas/103-823/"
 }
}
}
]
} 
</script>
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kaishiro Nov 13, 2016

Can I ask where the group netted out on the certification definition conversation that occurred upstream a bit? Couldn't find updates on any related issues but don't want to clog the queue if there is an active conversation ongoing. Lack of a certification schema seems like it should warrant an active effort.

kaishiro commented Nov 13, 2016

Can I ask where the group netted out on the certification definition conversation that occurred upstream a bit? Couldn't find updates on any related issues but don't want to clog the queue if there is an active conversation ongoing. Lack of a certification schema seems like it should warrant an active effort.

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westurner Nov 13, 2016

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  • Ctrl-F for "credential" in this issue thread
  • grantsCredential/credentialOffered implied a need for schema:Credential

westurner@1f268fc#diff-d54dcb303dfa33fefe39415f7106623fR147

  • This is CTI schemaorg-ified
    • We'd need to revisit the latest CTI specs
  • This patch is on file that's been moved
  • It was suggested that this patch is insufficient and there
    could/should/must be an additional Credential committee community group
    list wiki and git feature branch (and so at least one GitHub issue with a
    description to keep updated) as is the W3C way:
    • C: CreativeWork > Credential
    • C: CreativeWork > [Credential >?] CredentialInstance
      • There are possible Credentials, and there are instances of
        credentials held by Organizations and Persons
    • P: CredentialInstance.credential r: Credential

On Sunday, November 13, 2016, Matthew White notifications@github.com
wrote:

Can I ask where the group netted out on the certification definition
conversation that occurred upstream a bit? Couldn't find updates on any
related issues but don't want to clog the queue if there is an active
conversation ongoing. Lack of a certification schema seems like it should
warrant an active effort.


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westurner commented Nov 13, 2016

  • Ctrl-F for "credential" in this issue thread
  • grantsCredential/credentialOffered implied a need for schema:Credential

westurner@1f268fc#diff-d54dcb303dfa33fefe39415f7106623fR147

  • This is CTI schemaorg-ified
    • We'd need to revisit the latest CTI specs
  • This patch is on file that's been moved
  • It was suggested that this patch is insufficient and there
    could/should/must be an additional Credential committee community group
    list wiki and git feature branch (and so at least one GitHub issue with a
    description to keep updated) as is the W3C way:
    • C: CreativeWork > Credential
    • C: CreativeWork > [Credential >?] CredentialInstance
      • There are possible Credentials, and there are instances of
        credentials held by Organizations and Persons
    • P: CredentialInstance.credential r: Credential

On Sunday, November 13, 2016, Matthew White notifications@github.com
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Can I ask where the group netted out on the certification definition
conversation that occurred upstream a bit? Couldn't find updates on any
related issues but don't want to clog the queue if there is an active
conversation ongoing. Lack of a certification schema seems like it should
warrant an active effort.


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thadguidry Nov 18, 2016

@danbri @philbarker

I created the "online course" type on Wikidata https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q27885123 (and a subclass of course https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q600134 ) so far has 1 equivalent class linked to http://edamontology.org/data_3670

But reading through all the above and seeing what is in Pending...

  1. Will the "online" indicator of a course be equitable through the courseMode property https://pending.schema.org/courseMode with a value of "online" ?
  2. Or will "online" be designated by using the learningResourceType property https://pending.schema.org/learningResourceType with a value of "online" ?
  3. or can we just have additionally a simple subtype for "OnlineCourse" to make all the publishers lives easier still ?
  4. or a property on Course for holding the idea of "remote learning" or "online" somehow ?

The reason I ask is that many folks will want to skip using courseMode and just have a quick filter for "show me only online courses for Calculus" , "remote learning for Philosophy". These were a few sample queries I saw against Google Search.

thadguidry commented Nov 18, 2016

@danbri @philbarker

I created the "online course" type on Wikidata https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q27885123 (and a subclass of course https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q600134 ) so far has 1 equivalent class linked to http://edamontology.org/data_3670

But reading through all the above and seeing what is in Pending...

  1. Will the "online" indicator of a course be equitable through the courseMode property https://pending.schema.org/courseMode with a value of "online" ?
  2. Or will "online" be designated by using the learningResourceType property https://pending.schema.org/learningResourceType with a value of "online" ?
  3. or can we just have additionally a simple subtype for "OnlineCourse" to make all the publishers lives easier still ?
  4. or a property on Course for holding the idea of "remote learning" or "online" somehow ?

The reason I ask is that many folks will want to skip using courseMode and just have a quick filter for "show me only online courses for Calculus" , "remote learning for Philosophy". These were a few sample queries I saw against Google Search.

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karindpowell Nov 23, 2016

@thadguidry I've been dwelling on this and here's my thoughts -- throwing them out there for comments...

In reference to your question regarding "courseMode": It looks to me like courseMode is more for "where your body is located when you take the course". In that case: "online"; "classroom", "lab", "hybrid" (online but sometimes in classroom); "field" (outside of classroom). These seem like some of the possibilities...

In reference to your question regarding "learningResourceType": It looks to me like learningResourceType is more for "what sort of medium is used by the instructor to get the knowledge into you". In that case: "slideshow"; "video"; "handouts"; "mixed media"; "book";

That said, let's say you had an online course. You might want the courseMode to be "online" and the learningResourceType might be "video" AND "book" AND "downloadable content".

karindpowell commented Nov 23, 2016

@thadguidry I've been dwelling on this and here's my thoughts -- throwing them out there for comments...

In reference to your question regarding "courseMode": It looks to me like courseMode is more for "where your body is located when you take the course". In that case: "online"; "classroom", "lab", "hybrid" (online but sometimes in classroom); "field" (outside of classroom). These seem like some of the possibilities...

In reference to your question regarding "learningResourceType": It looks to me like learningResourceType is more for "what sort of medium is used by the instructor to get the knowledge into you". In that case: "slideshow"; "video"; "handouts"; "mixed media"; "book";

That said, let's say you had an online course. You might want the courseMode to be "online" and the learningResourceType might be "video" AND "book" AND "downloadable content".

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@thadguidry as it is possible for a course to be delivered online/through distance learning and face to face (i.e. as two CourseInstances of the same Course), I think that 1 works anf that 2 and 4 don't (which I think is what @karindpowell is getting at). For Courses I think that learningResourceType would best be used to distinguish between short courses, modules, programs etc, but that hasn't been widely discussed.

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philbarker commented Nov 23, 2016

@thadguidry as it is possible for a course to be delivered online/through distance learning and face to face (i.e. as two CourseInstances of the same Course), I think that 1 works anf that 2 and 4 don't (which I think is what @karindpowell is getting at). For Courses I think that learningResourceType would best be used to distinguish between short courses, modules, programs etc, but that hasn't been widely discussed.

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I think we need Enumerations and/or a wiki page with URIs for common values
for courseMode and learningResourceType. (that'll make it much easier to
build e.g. faceted interfaces with having to lowercase and spell-check)

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wrote:

@thadguidry https://github.com/thadguidry as it is possible for a
course to be delivered online/through distance learning and face to face
(i.e. as two CourseInstances of the same Course), I think that 1 works anf
that 2 and 4 don't (which I think is what @karindpowell
https://github.com/karindpowell is getting at). For Courses I think
that learningResourceType would best be used to distinguish between short
courses, modules, programs etc, but that hasn't been widely discussed.


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westurner commented Nov 23, 2016

I think we need Enumerations and/or a wiki page with URIs for common values
for courseMode and learningResourceType. (that'll make it much easier to
build e.g. faceted interfaces with having to lowercase and spell-check)

On Wednesday, November 23, 2016, Phil Barker notifications@github.com
wrote:

@thadguidry https://github.com/thadguidry as it is possible for a
course to be delivered online/through distance learning and face to face
(i.e. as two CourseInstances of the same Course), I think that 1 works anf
that 2 and 4 don't (which I think is what @karindpowell
https://github.com/karindpowell is getting at). For Courses I think
that learningResourceType would best be used to distinguish between short
courses, modules, programs etc, but that hasn't been widely discussed.


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To @philbarker's question, yes, I've seen cases where the same CourseInstance was both in person and online for distance learners. This is part of why we avoided an OnlineCourse type; it is really hard to define what is and is not "online".

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vholland commented Nov 28, 2016

To @philbarker's question, yes, I've seen cases where the same CourseInstance was both in person and online for distance learners. This is part of why we avoided an OnlineCourse type; it is really hard to define what is and is not "online".

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inetbiz Feb 1, 2017

I'd definitely like to see CourseSection. The LMS software I'm hacking had the ability like most lms software to preview free course units. And, if the consumer actually shares that free course unit, I'd like it defined properly as a CourseSection unit related to its parent Course.

inetbiz commented Feb 1, 2017

I'd definitely like to see CourseSection. The LMS software I'm hacking had the ability like most lms software to preview free course units. And, if the consumer actually shares that free course unit, I'd like it defined properly as a CourseSection unit related to its parent Course.

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@inetbiz in what way is CourseSection distinct from CourseInstance ( https://pending.schema.org/CourseInstance An instance of a Course offered at a specific time and place or through specific media or mode of study or to a specific section of students. )

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philbarker commented Feb 1, 2017

@inetbiz in what way is CourseSection distinct from CourseInstance ( https://pending.schema.org/CourseInstance An instance of a Course offered at a specific time and place or through specific media or mode of study or to a specific section of students. )

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inetbiz Feb 1, 2017

@philbarker I akin CourseSection to an article in a section. The course section is content that could stand on it's own outside of the course. Right now, I'm creating course content for HTML5 Semantic Structures. The course title is "Semantic SEO For Website Structures Course" which also includes RDFa, Microdata vocabularies.

inetbiz commented Feb 1, 2017

@philbarker I akin CourseSection to an article in a section. The course section is content that could stand on it's own outside of the course. Right now, I'm creating course content for HTML5 Semantic Structures. The course title is "Semantic SEO For Website Structures Course" which also includes RDFa, Microdata vocabularies.

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@inetbiz OK, I think I understand. There is scope for confusion because CourseSection can be defined as " A setting in which organized instruction of course content is provided to one or more students for a given period of time. " -- https://ceds.ed.gov/dataModelEntities.aspx

I think you mean that you want to say that some material (or a sequence of one or more educational events and/or creative works) is a part of a Course?

As it stands you can say that Courses are part of Courses. I agree that how we model the distinction between a Programme of Study, a Module, a Course Unit, a Track etc needs more attention, but they all fit the definition of Course. Currently it is possible to use the learningResourceType property to say which of these you would call your course, but you'll find definitions & understanding of terms like 'module' or 'programme' vary greatly.

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philbarker commented Feb 1, 2017

@inetbiz OK, I think I understand. There is scope for confusion because CourseSection can be defined as " A setting in which organized instruction of course content is provided to one or more students for a given period of time. " -- https://ceds.ed.gov/dataModelEntities.aspx

I think you mean that you want to say that some material (or a sequence of one or more educational events and/or creative works) is a part of a Course?

As it stands you can say that Courses are part of Courses. I agree that how we model the distinction between a Programme of Study, a Module, a Course Unit, a Track etc needs more attention, but they all fit the definition of Course. Currently it is possible to use the learningResourceType property to say which of these you would call your course, but you'll find definitions & understanding of terms like 'module' or 'programme' vary greatly.

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inetbiz Feb 1, 2017

For now, I will use article and section. It just would be nice to give distinction within the vocabulary of Course. Your first paragraph #195 (comment) seems more of an instance.

inetbiz commented Feb 1, 2017

For now, I will use article and section. It just would be nice to give distinction within the vocabulary of Course. Your first paragraph #195 (comment) seems more of an instance.

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fravarese Feb 20, 2017

Hello everybody, I'm currently experimenting schema "courses" on my website, but I'm not sure about how should the google snippet look like .. In the official example page, it should look like a list: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/search-gallery#courses , but in my pages this kind of list does not appear, so I wonder if I'm missing something.. even if actually that kind of list does not appear neither in the website used as example (coursera.com), when appear in the google results page, among other search results. So I ask you, should that kind of listing appear in the google snippet once you implement schema in the code of a website or the example is worng and the list is just not supposed to apear? thank you very much. Francesco

fravarese commented Feb 20, 2017

Hello everybody, I'm currently experimenting schema "courses" on my website, but I'm not sure about how should the google snippet look like .. In the official example page, it should look like a list: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/search-gallery#courses , but in my pages this kind of list does not appear, so I wonder if I'm missing something.. even if actually that kind of list does not appear neither in the website used as example (coursera.com), when appear in the google results page, among other search results. So I ask you, should that kind of listing appear in the google snippet once you implement schema in the code of a website or the example is worng and the list is just not supposed to apear? thank you very much. Francesco

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@fravarese I'm not sure this is the best place to discuss individual cases, but if you send me a link to your pages I'll have a look. phil.barker [at] hw.ac.uk

However I suspect that how your pages look in Google search engine results depends more on Google than the schema.org Course spec, and that I cannot help with.

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philbarker commented Feb 21, 2017

@fravarese I'm not sure this is the best place to discuss individual cases, but if you send me a link to your pages I'll have a look. phil.barker [at] hw.ac.uk

However I suspect that how your pages look in Google search engine results depends more on Google than the schema.org Course spec, and that I cannot help with.

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fravarese Feb 21, 2017

@philbarker
Ok thanks, I tought there was a specific connection beetwen google and schema. I saw that in schema "events" the list-kind snippet always appears, and I tought that in "courses" should appear too.. because the example page showed it.

fravarese commented Feb 21, 2017

@philbarker
Ok thanks, I tought there was a specific connection beetwen google and schema. I saw that in schema "events" the list-kind snippet always appears, and I tought that in "courses" should appear too.. because the example page showed it.

@westurner westurner changed the title from Course, CourseInstance, EducationEvent etc. [ Schema.org Course Extension ] to Course, CourseInstance, Event [ Schema.org Course Extension ] Mar 24, 2017

@westurner westurner changed the title from Course, CourseInstance, Event [ Schema.org Course Extension ] to Course, CourseInstance, Event [Schema.org Course Extension] Mar 24, 2017

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CreativeWork > CourseInstance
Is there a reason this doesn't work?
Each CourseInstance could/should have properties from CreativeWork, as well?

As submitted in the proposal and defined in the pending area of the previous release (3.1) of Schema.org, CourseInstance is not a subtype of CreativeWork - its only super-type being Event.

I seem to remember that the logic behind this was discussed in detail within the Course Extend Group well before the proposal was submitted. @philbarker could probably clarify that for you.

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RichardWallis commented Mar 24, 2017

CreativeWork > CourseInstance
Is there a reason this doesn't work?
Each CourseInstance could/should have properties from CreativeWork, as well?

As submitted in the proposal and defined in the pending area of the previous release (3.1) of Schema.org, CourseInstance is not a subtype of CreativeWork - its only super-type being Event.

I seem to remember that the logic behind this was discussed in detail within the Course Extend Group well before the proposal was submitted. @philbarker could probably clarify that for you.

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Ah yep, this was our way around capturing the slightly ambiguous nature of "course". There's a type-like notion of instantiation. If specific properties are needed they can be attached directly and we tweak their definitions accordingly.

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danbri commented Mar 24, 2017

Ah yep, this was our way around capturing the slightly ambiguous nature of "course". There's a type-like notion of instantiation. If specific properties are needed they can be attached directly and we tweak their definitions accordingly.

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If specific properties are needed they can be attached directly and we tweak their definitions accordingly.

.

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westurner commented Mar 24, 2017

If specific properties are needed they can be attached directly and we tweak their definitions accordingly.

.

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@westurner , all:

  • The accessibility properties of a CourseInstance were not implemented because accessibility of all types of Event should be addressed by people who understand accessibility, not by people who understand educational courses.
  • We didn't fully discuss credits for Courses. The current suggestion of attaching courseCredit and courseCreditUnits directly to Course does not work if you offer several options of credit. We need something a little bit similar to http://pending.webschemas.org/CategoryCode to make sure that the value and the units are associated with each other instead of having a choice of n values and n units and not knowing which goes with which. MLO Credit might be a model to follow ftp://ftp.cen.eu/CEN/Sectors/TCandWorkshops/Workshops/CWA16077.pdf but we need to check that such a model fits with current practice in the US (e.g. CEDS) and work of organizations like the Credential Transparency Initiative. I think this is relatively easy and could be a sensible next step for the schema course extension community group.
  • AFAIK "search for {SCORM}" never was on that list of use cases.
  • Testing those assertions would need a body of resources that had been marked up. Guidance on how to provide data that would allow those tests would be a useful thing to create.

Hope that clarifies.

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philbarker commented Mar 24, 2017

@westurner , all:

  • The accessibility properties of a CourseInstance were not implemented because accessibility of all types of Event should be addressed by people who understand accessibility, not by people who understand educational courses.
  • We didn't fully discuss credits for Courses. The current suggestion of attaching courseCredit and courseCreditUnits directly to Course does not work if you offer several options of credit. We need something a little bit similar to http://pending.webschemas.org/CategoryCode to make sure that the value and the units are associated with each other instead of having a choice of n values and n units and not knowing which goes with which. MLO Credit might be a model to follow ftp://ftp.cen.eu/CEN/Sectors/TCandWorkshops/Workshops/CWA16077.pdf but we need to check that such a model fits with current practice in the US (e.g. CEDS) and work of organizations like the Credential Transparency Initiative. I think this is relatively easy and could be a sensible next step for the schema course extension community group.
  • AFAIK "search for {SCORM}" never was on that list of use cases.
  • Testing those assertions would need a body of resources that had been marked up. Guidance on how to provide data that would allow those tests would be a useful thing to create.

Hope that clarifies.

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@philbarker Thanks!

The accessibility properties of a CourseInstance were not implemented because accessibility of all types of Event should be addressed by people who understand accessibility, not by people who understand educational courses.

#254 "Accessibility of Places" (and Events (e.g. 'this event will have a language_xyz interpreter; but in general the Place is empty'))

We didn't fully discuss credits for Courses. The current suggestion of attaching courseCredit and courseCreditUnits directly to Course does not work if you offer several options of credit. We need something a little bit similar to http://pending.webschemas.org/CategoryCode to make sure that the value and the units are associated with each other instead of having a choice of n values and n units and not knowing which goes with which.

If a URL is specified for CategoryCode.inCodeSet, what contentType is expected to be resolvable at that URL?
If a CategoryCodeSet is specified, CategoryCodeSet.hasCategoryCode is set.

MLO Credit might be a model to follow ftp://ftp.cen.eu/CEN/Sectors/TCandWorkshops/Workshops/CWA16077.pdf but we need to check that such a model fits with current practice in the US (e.g. CEDS) and work of organizations like the Credential Transparency Initiative.

CEDS

CTI

@CTITechPlanning

  • see next comment

I think this is relatively easy and could be a sensible next step for the schema course extension community group.

  • courseCredits (CategoryCode, Offer, OfferCatalog)
  • Event > CourseInstance accessibility*
  • syllabus as a tree of Things / CreativeWorks (CourseUnit > CourseInstance, "ThingSequence", )
  • Credential / CredentialInstance
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westurner commented Mar 24, 2017

@philbarker Thanks!

The accessibility properties of a CourseInstance were not implemented because accessibility of all types of Event should be addressed by people who understand accessibility, not by people who understand educational courses.

#254 "Accessibility of Places" (and Events (e.g. 'this event will have a language_xyz interpreter; but in general the Place is empty'))

We didn't fully discuss credits for Courses. The current suggestion of attaching courseCredit and courseCreditUnits directly to Course does not work if you offer several options of credit. We need something a little bit similar to http://pending.webschemas.org/CategoryCode to make sure that the value and the units are associated with each other instead of having a choice of n values and n units and not knowing which goes with which.

If a URL is specified for CategoryCode.inCodeSet, what contentType is expected to be resolvable at that URL?
If a CategoryCodeSet is specified, CategoryCodeSet.hasCategoryCode is set.

MLO Credit might be a model to follow ftp://ftp.cen.eu/CEN/Sectors/TCandWorkshops/Workshops/CWA16077.pdf but we need to check that such a model fits with current practice in the US (e.g. CEDS) and work of organizations like the Credential Transparency Initiative.

CEDS

CTI

@CTITechPlanning

  • see next comment

I think this is relatively easy and could be a sensible next step for the schema course extension community group.

  • courseCredits (CategoryCode, Offer, OfferCatalog)
  • Event > CourseInstance accessibility*
  • syllabus as a tree of Things / CreativeWorks (CourseUnit > CourseInstance, "ThingSequence", )
  • Credential / CredentialInstance
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From https://github.com/blockchain-certificates/cert-schema/issues/25#issuecomment-289006903 :

"Credential" as the super type:

WebID

The Cert Ontology 1.0 :

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westurner commented Mar 24, 2017

From https://github.com/blockchain-certificates/cert-schema/issues/25#issuecomment-289006903 :

"Credential" as the super type:

WebID

The Cert Ontology 1.0 :

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@westurner thanks for information & comments, I'll try to work out what actions to take :)

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philbarker commented Mar 24, 2017

@westurner thanks for information & comments, I'll try to work out what actions to take :)

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Testing those assertions would need a body of resources that had been marked up. Guidance on how to provide data that would allow those tests would be a useful thing to create.

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westurner commented Mar 24, 2017

Testing those assertions would need a body of resources that had been marked up. Guidance on how to provide data that would allow those tests would be a useful thing to create.

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jhoobergs Apr 1, 2017

How would I currently model an education programme ? I don't think that Course is right for this, so maybe a an EducationalProgramme definition ?

jhoobergs commented Apr 1, 2017

How would I currently model an education programme ? I don't think that Course is right for this, so maybe a an EducationalProgramme definition ?

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@jhoobergs could you describe what you mean by an educational programme, preferably with links to a couple that you would like to model? Asking because the term is used in different ways.

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philbarker commented Apr 3, 2017

@jhoobergs could you describe what you mean by an educational programme, preferably with links to a couple that you would like to model? Asking because the term is used in different ways.

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schivmeister Apr 10, 2017

  1. Is there a recommendation as to when to use CourseInstance vs. EducationEvent? Some times this choice is not clear.

  2. Also, is there a reason for there not being a relationship from Course to EducationEvent, like there is hasCourseInstance? Or is it expected that the link will be via subEvent? But that does not look right.

  3. How are search engines presently interpreting these types and relationships? What about courses with related course instances or education events? It seems there would be a disconnect if you showed just courses without showing the events associated with it. Do SEs presently parse relationships or are they ignored? (e.g. Provider -> Course -> CourseInstance)

I think sooner or later we're going to have to deal with the diversity of educational programmes. What we typically refer to as "course" can be understood to be disjoint with what we consider as a "training programme". A course typically culminates in a "credential" but a training programme, while offering certificates "of participation" or similar, would not typically culminate in a credential. This is the case for IT training, where service providers typical offer training for certification exams. I think the same holds for professional certifications, where one would pursue some kind of training before taking the relevant exam(s).

schivmeister commented Apr 10, 2017

  1. Is there a recommendation as to when to use CourseInstance vs. EducationEvent? Some times this choice is not clear.

  2. Also, is there a reason for there not being a relationship from Course to EducationEvent, like there is hasCourseInstance? Or is it expected that the link will be via subEvent? But that does not look right.

  3. How are search engines presently interpreting these types and relationships? What about courses with related course instances or education events? It seems there would be a disconnect if you showed just courses without showing the events associated with it. Do SEs presently parse relationships or are they ignored? (e.g. Provider -> Course -> CourseInstance)

I think sooner or later we're going to have to deal with the diversity of educational programmes. What we typically refer to as "course" can be understood to be disjoint with what we consider as a "training programme". A course typically culminates in a "credential" but a training programme, while offering certificates "of participation" or similar, would not typically culminate in a credential. This is the case for IT training, where service providers typical offer training for certification exams. I think the same holds for professional certifications, where one would pursue some kind of training before taking the relevant exam(s).

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philbarker Apr 10, 2017

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@schivmeister hello.

  1. We haven't discussed any recommendation for choosing between EducationEvent and CourseInstance.
  2. EducationEvent as a subEvent of a CourseInstance would make sense if you wanted to itemise the individual sessions (lectures, lab classes, lessons etc) that made up a CourseInstance.
  3. I don't know.

On your general point, the intent was that Course would encompass as many scenarios as possible, and is defined so as not to be disjoint 'training programme'. The problem with starting with "what we typically refer to as "course", is that typical doesn't travel very well (indeed, even the narrow sector that I work in, UK Higher Education, it prove impossible to narrow down the term "course" in any sensible way based on how it is used, see https://www.hesa.ac.uk/files/What-is-a-course_2011.pdf ) Hence the definition "an educational course is a sequence of one or more educational events and/or creative works which aims to build knowledge, competence or ability of learners."

I think you are right that there could be more done to describe the type of credentialing / certification that results from successfully taking a Course. That's a can of worms in itself. It's also one that goes beyond describing Courses per se, because all sorts of accreditation bodies, professional bodies, employers, regulators and so on have a view on credentialing and certification.

Contributor

philbarker commented Apr 10, 2017

@schivmeister hello.

  1. We haven't discussed any recommendation for choosing between EducationEvent and CourseInstance.
  2. EducationEvent as a subEvent of a CourseInstance would make sense if you wanted to itemise the individual sessions (lectures, lab classes, lessons etc) that made up a CourseInstance.
  3. I don't know.

On your general point, the intent was that Course would encompass as many scenarios as possible, and is defined so as not to be disjoint 'training programme'. The problem with starting with "what we typically refer to as "course", is that typical doesn't travel very well (indeed, even the narrow sector that I work in, UK Higher Education, it prove impossible to narrow down the term "course" in any sensible way based on how it is used, see https://www.hesa.ac.uk/files/What-is-a-course_2011.pdf ) Hence the definition "an educational course is a sequence of one or more educational events and/or creative works which aims to build knowledge, competence or ability of learners."

I think you are right that there could be more done to describe the type of credentialing / certification that results from successfully taking a Course. That's a can of worms in itself. It's also one that goes beyond describing Courses per se, because all sorts of accreditation bodies, professional bodies, employers, regulators and so on have a view on credentialing and certification.

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schivmeister Apr 10, 2017

@philbarker Thanks for responding to my points, you are absolutely right. My general point was in reference to #195 (comment) for modelling an education "programme". As you said, it is quite open-ended and the best course of action is to use what is available. I see now you discussed a similar issue before in #195 (comment).

My concern was really about the linkages between courses and events, since these two types are presently known to be parsed by search engines. I was a bit surprised that there is an absent link between Course and EducationEvent. I would have expected something like hasRelatedEvent on the former and/or hasRelatedCourse on the latter.

I was even more surprised that subclasses are defined without properties that are unique to them. From an ontology/vocabulary design perspective, http://schema.org/EducationEvent looks redundant to me, whereas http://schema.org/CourseInstance has its own properties that fully qualifies it as a subclass. But I suppose that's how things work in the specs, and perhaps just the type name is sufficient to help parsers interpret them differently.

schivmeister commented Apr 10, 2017

@philbarker Thanks for responding to my points, you are absolutely right. My general point was in reference to #195 (comment) for modelling an education "programme". As you said, it is quite open-ended and the best course of action is to use what is available. I see now you discussed a similar issue before in #195 (comment).

My concern was really about the linkages between courses and events, since these two types are presently known to be parsed by search engines. I was a bit surprised that there is an absent link between Course and EducationEvent. I would have expected something like hasRelatedEvent on the former and/or hasRelatedCourse on the latter.

I was even more surprised that subclasses are defined without properties that are unique to them. From an ontology/vocabulary design perspective, http://schema.org/EducationEvent looks redundant to me, whereas http://schema.org/CourseInstance has its own properties that fully qualifies it as a subclass. But I suppose that's how things work in the specs, and perhaps just the type name is sufficient to help parsers interpret them differently.

@westurner westurner referenced this issue Apr 26, 2017

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Fields for author/creator and title #45

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@westurner westurner changed the title from Course, CourseInstance, Event [Schema.org Course Extension] to Course, CourseInstance, EducationEvent [Schema.org Course Extension] Jan 25, 2018

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