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Rationalize/simplify education-related properties #2427
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Just want to note that these proposals have been discussed by LRMI over the last year or so in conference calls and on the mail list. Specifically, The most recent discussions start in August on with messages on the topics of "Adding EducationEvent to domain includes" and "educationalLevel", conclude in October as the topic on "extended domains & new terms", and the proposal was signed off in the November call. Further discuss here would of course be welcome. Phil Barker, responding to request from @danbri for info on how this proposal was developed. (editted to add links that got lost) |
Fixed in version 8 |
I have some difficulties to find practical examples og how to differeniate between "teaches" and "assesses". |
Martin, we should hope that wherever teaching occurs that assessment does
as well; but, the reverse is frequently not the case. For example, there
are entities that assess (and sometimes certify) what others have taught
and do no teaching on their own.
…On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 8:37 AM Martin Schmidt ***@***.***> wrote:
I have some difficulties to find practical examples og how to differeniate
between "teaches" and "assesses".
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Teaches is a textbook like material. Assesses is a test like material.
They both relate to a competency or subject.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 8:36 AM Martin Schmidt ***@***.***> wrote:
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Perhaps we could update the schema.org definitions to clarify this?
…On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 20:27, HughP ***@***.***> wrote:
Teaches is a textbook like material. Assesses is a test like material.
They both relate to a competency or subject.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 8:36 AM Martin Schmidt ***@***.***>
wrote:
> I have some difficulties to find practical examples og how to
differeniate
> between "teaches" and "assesses".
>
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I now have a better idea about the difference. But I didn't understand it from the current description. Maybe the description should be updated. My misunderstanding came from my particular use case of presenting a course BEFORE the course is conducted. From this perspective, I expected that TEACH and ASSESS would come up with the same content :-) |
@msofferready certainly many courses include both assessment and teaching, especially if the exam is a part of the course, so you could use both. Would it help someone searching for a resource that assesses something if they found the course you are describing? If you used "assesses X" in a search would you expect to find your course about X or would you prefer to find just exams and other tests about X? Depending on the level detail that is useful to you it may be worth saying that the course hasParts, some of which (lessons, lectures, assignment etc) teach X, some of which (tests, exams, etc) assess X. We have to be careful about being too specific in the definitions because education isn't as straightforward as many people think. Remember that we have things like formative assessment and marked assignments with feedback, tools like duolingo and flash cards, and methods like socratic dialogue and problem based learning which all use "asking questions" to help someone learn. I can't think of an improvement on the current "help someone learn" for teaches. Perhaps for assesses we could include something like "determine someones knowledge, skills or other attributes" where the current definition has a circular reference to "assesses". |
@philbarker The concept is now understandable for me, I would leave it the way it is. As I said: I didn't understand it right from the description alone at https://schema.org/EducationEvent, so it might still be possible to be more specific or add an example. Other than that, it's fine for me. Thx a lot for your patience and your help! |
Does https://schema.org/teaches duplicate functionality of https://schema.org/about, when it could also be an The current definition of schemaorg/data/ext/pending/issue-2427.ttl Lines 17 to 25 in cac3fbd
|
Yes, |
Are there any X and Ys where
x teaches y
Without
x about y
… also being true?
…On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 10:38, Phil Barker ***@***.***> wrote:
Yes, teaches is more specific than about.
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@danbri no, logically I don't think there are. Though I think you might not want always every learning objective to be listed as the subject (e.g. Physics textbook: about = Physics, teaches ~ 100s of learning objectives). |
I don't need a separate Because it duplicates functionality,
|
Using the educationalAlignment property and an AlignmentObject to show how a learning resource relates to shared educational frameworks as an indirect way of expressing information about important educational characteristics (the AlignmentObects alignmentType) has turned out to be overly complex and under used. Some such characteristics could be usefully included as simple properties, e.g.
teaches
: what the resource is intended to help someone learnassesses
: what the resource is intended to assesseducationalLevel
has already be used for as a property for EducationalOccupationalCredentials but could be used more widely.Other properties such as educational prerequisite may also be important enough to merit their own properties.
educationalAlignment / AlignmentObject should be retained to catch the long tail of other types of alignment, but its use for where there are direct properties should be discouraged in the future.
Some of these properties would also be useful for the EducationEvent type.
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