Add EventSeries as subclass of Series #447
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Thanks! Let's discuss under #240 for now... |
danbri
added
dates times and events
schema.org vocab
and removed
schema.org vocab
labels
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Can folk here please take a look at the Courses discussion, which has run directly into this topic: https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/wiki/Main_Page https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Mar/0021.html |
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I've just added EventSeries into the 'pending.schema.org' extension I've created - intent is to avoid things getting stuck in Github limbo for so long. Right now this is just in the upstream/dev site webschemas.org but I hope we'll agree a workflow where proposals can go more quickly to pending.schema.org without waiting for large releases. See http://pending.webschemas.org/EventSeries (files are in data/ext/pending/issue-447* ... could do with an example - maybe someone could convert the Turtle in the PR into JSON-LD?) |
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Can we have a bit more information in the definition please? (Admittedly I can't think of a clear explanation immediately either :( ) |
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How about: "An EventSeries is a Series of related events. The nature of the association between the events can vary, but typical examples could include a thematic event series (e.g. topical meetups or classes), or a series of regular events that share a location, attendee group and/or organizers." I have mentioned 'classes' here which might merit some consideration w.r.t. the courses work. /cc @philbarker |
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Counter offer that also tests whether I have understood what everyone else has: An EventSeries is a collection of events that share some unifying characteristic. For example, "The Olympic Games" is a series, which is repeated regularly. The "2012 London Olympics" can be presented both as an Event in the series "Olympic Games", and as an EventSeries that included a number of sporting competitions as Events. "The Ashes" (cricket contest between Australia and England) is repeated frequently, but not according to any long-term stable schedule. The course "Beowulf: the manuscript and the man" can be an EventSeries consisting of individual seminars with the same participants, and an EventSeries of the course being held repeatedly over a decade. |
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I’m surprised that Are the Olympic Games (as in: the event series) really a creative work? And if yes, why is a single Olympic Games event not also a creative work then? |
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@chaals 's example is interesting - can we focus on that one for now? We ought to be confident that we can show both usages work sensibly together and that the extra expressivity we bring comes with clear usage guidance. For example consider if there is a 2016 seminar series (e.g. each of 6 x 1h sessions on successive weeks), and then later the course is re-run as a 2017 series with the same structure and topic, but different people. This also relates to whether we want to say that EventSeries is a subtype of Event (or at least carries Event-like properties). Aside: please note that the nice diagram in #1088 is out of date w.r.t. the current proposed design which uses superEvent to point to the EventSeries. This confused me today so I thought a warning worthwhile. @chaals :
@chaals outlines two views. One is to see the 6 sessions in 2016 as an EventSeries i.e. '2016 Beowulf course', the other is to see the sequence of annual runs of the course - i.e. 'Beowulf: the manuscript and the man' - as an EventSeries. Either way, superEvent would point up the hierarchy, from e.g. '2017 session 3' (an Event) to '2017 Beowulf course' (an Event or an EventSeries) and from there to the top level 'Beowulf: the manuscript and the man' which is presumably an EventSeries but not an Event since it represents just the high level notion of the series rather than something that you can say is happening at a particular place and time. The mid-level is the most awkward. Intuition pulls it towards being both Event ("An event happening at a certain time and location" e.g. summer 2016, Madrid) and also an EventSeries (approximately "a collection of events that share some unifying characteristic e.g. relationship"). I can't see a way to escape saying "some but not all EventSeries may also be usefully treated as being an Event" i.e. occasional multiple typing at the level of instance data. It seems to me to be over-stretch to bake into the schema definitions the claim that every EventSeries is an Event. In addition w.r.t. supertypes, I notice with (some embarrassment) that we added CreativeWorkSeries as a parent for various other series-types, but that it seems currently to be unrelated to Series. Looking more closely (opened #1090 ) we had in #417 marked Series in the schema definition files as supersededBy CreativeWorkSeries, but we didn't complete the job (either in site UI or updated definition). I propose we restore Series since it is a natural supertype for both EventSeries and CreativeWorkSeries. On @unor's point, I am comfortable with Series being under CreativeWork because we have http://schema.org/ItemList for a more pure list data structure detached from social context. I should add that whatever we say about using superEvent and EventSeries we should support the corresponding use of subEvent in the reverse direction. From our next release we mark these explicitly as inverseOf each other per #1057 so we ought to permit both variants even if we emphasize one. |
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There seem to be three different things being discussed here: (1) sub/super events, i.e. individual events that are distinct but related, e.g. seminars 1-6 in the Beowulf course, or matches/stages/events in a sports competition; (2) separate offerings/seasons/editions of events, which have some degree of equivalence without being identical, i.e. they are offered to the same blueprint or with the same aims but with different people involved and variations in format (e.g. each edition of the Tour de France has different stages); and (3) repeated events, such as the same play being performed for several nights. For courses, I think it is fair to say that while a course may repeat annually and include a "sequence of 6 seminar sessions" we should be careful not to limit it to that: it may be offered in other formats and may include other things apart from a sequence of sessions. Currently in modelling courses we have So Course may be the description of an example of event series in sense (2) and CourseInstance may include an example of event series in sense (1) above. |
Also we now declare EventSeries a type of Event, so we don't specialcase superEvent (or subEvent) in the definitions.
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This is published in pending.schema.org. Are there any changes or improvements to make? Would it make sense to progress it into the schema.org core? |
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@danbri Small improvement needed I think.... also add term 'event' to the actor property definition. It should read ... An actor, e.g. in tv, radio, movie, video games etc., or in an event. Actors can be associated with individual items, events or with a series, episode, clip. Supersedes actors. +1 for moving this into core. I expected that to happen actually. |
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Thanks @thadguidry, I've added that todo to a similar issue #1290 |
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I was expecting that by entering I'd love to see this in 3.2. So let's me know what you think is still necessary. I'll check what #1290 is about. |
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@thadguidry looking again, we already say " or in an event.":
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I was reading the discussion between @mfhepp and @wikier in #446 discussing whether there is a need for a separate entity called |
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@nextdude @wikier @mfhepp I am looking into the use of |
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We should probably rename Series to be CreativeWorkSeries.
EventSeries should be a subtype of Event. It is not more a CreativeWork
than a 'series' of rainy days is a CreativeWork.
guha
…On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Dan Brickley ***@***.***> wrote:
Would anyone here object to EventSeries being subtype of Event?
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@rvguha - we did exactly that (i.e. rename Series to be CreativeWorkSeries) some while ago, and were close to deprecating Series except we didn't have the technical machinery in the site for type deprecation at the time. And then EventSeries appeared so Series was left dangling. In #1090 I asked
Regardless, EventSeries should indeed be a subtype of Event. If we decide to keep Series around as a common supertype, it will need to be subClassOf something. Putting it under Intangible means that we will then have CreativeWorkSeries and EventSeries that inherit from intangible, while also being of types CreativeWork or Event. Putting it directly under Thing gives it a very high profile, pragmatically. |
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@danbri Putting Series under Thing might be best... the only extra class between them might be Group, which we don't have. That's how its subclassed on Wikidata btw. And their Group is a subclass of Object (sorta close to our Thing) Just Saying. |
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Series is a kind of structure. I would put it under Intangible for now.
guha
…On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Dan Brickley ***@***.***> wrote:
@rvguha <https://github.com/rvguha> - we did exactly that some while ago,
and were close to deprecating Series except we didn't have the technical
machinery in the site for type deprecation at the time. And then
EventSeries appeared so Series was left dangling. In #1090
<#1090> I asked
is there any value in "Series" over and above having different kinds of
series like EventSeries, CreativeWorkSeries?
Regardless, EventSeries should indeed be a subtype of Event.
If we decide to keep Series around as a common supertype, it will need to
be subClassOf something. Putting it under Intangible means that we will
then have CreativeWorkSeries and EventSeries that inherit from intangible,
while also being of types CreativeWork or Event. Putting it directly under
Thing gives it a very high profile, pragmatically.
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Series type was previously left as a CreativeWork subclass, which was an error dating from its role as the original name for our CreativeWorkSeries.
…supertype. We have two subtypes of it, CreativeWorkSeries (successor to the original definition of Series, which was too generally named), plus the proposed EventSeries type (currently in the Pending area). These domain-specific series types also have corresponding supertypes in CreativeWork and Event. /cc #447 #1090
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@danbri in moving the Series, the properties isPartOf and hasPart are no longer available as their domain was CreativeWork. The JSON-LD example for EventSeries series uses hasPart, but that is not available to the Class. Should the domain of hasPart and isPartOf add Series? |
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+1 expanding domain of isPartOf & hasPart to include Series |
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... would also need to add Series to their rangeIncludes |
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+1 on how this proposal is shaping up. What's need to get it out of pending? |
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I found this thread there: Is it ready to be implemented on our websites, or should we wait for a stable release? I have different kind of event series:
I am still unclear with the overlap with subEvent and superEvent. And a bit confused with "long" events, like 15 days, for which each day could be seen as an event, which class to use. |
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This issue is being tagged as Stale due to inactivity. |
This is issue is to discuss the PR #446 about how to add support to event series.
It is related with some other ongoing discussions, such as the repeating events modelling (issue #240) and the new event types (issue #406).
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