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Archives and extent - Introduce 'pending' types, properties & examples #1784
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Hi @RichardWallis - happy to see progress on this. Just curious if there were any potential status updates regarding what this might need to move forward. |
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The current status is that this PR is awaiting the assembly of a list of candidates to go into the next release. Hopefully it will not be too long before an umbrella issue is created for candidates to go into what will probably be version 3.5 |
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ping @azaroth42 to take a looksee over this. |
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Per Richard's request for use case and implementation interest, I'm reproducing my message from the
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I wonder if since Archive is being proposed as a new type, if the properties archiveHeld and holdingArchive could be generalized to be "holds" and "heldBy". This would make the property pair useful for libraries, museums, historical societies, and other non-archive institutions. |
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@sfolsom An interesting idea which would as you say be useful for libraries, museums, historical societies, and other non-archive institutions. My question would be - do the understanding of the terms "holds" and "heldBy" remain consistent across other domains such as legal, life science etc. |
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@RichardWallis Yes, set theory and containerization concepts apply here. One thing I like about just using "holds" is that your not explicitly calling out any expected Type like a Collection, or a single Member, Item, Node, or Thing. "holdsMembers" "holdsItems" versus just "holds". This allows for greater flexibility for any individual item OR sets of collections. Thad's Archive: |
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@RichardWallis I imagine heldBy and holds, or generally "holds, keeps, maintains" and "held by, kept by, maintained by" would be true for any domain. To @anarchivist's point about http://schema.org/offers, I'm curious if part of the proposal was to reflect the fact that an archive may not be offering the collection, fond, item (even for viewing or circulation), and yet it's still important to know the holding information. FWIW, I think this is a useful distinction. Said differently, one who offers something likely holds the thing (or at least brokers it), but one who holds a thing may not offer it. Similarly, one who holds something, may not own it, making this proposal subtly different from (and more simple than) http://schema.org/OwnershipInfo. [I hope this discussion is only helping the proposal; I would like to see it pass.] |
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This would support some of the work we're doing at Penn State Libraries where we're trying to publish more linked data from our Special Collections Library and Archives. We're getting our data ready for Spotlight, as mentioned by @anarchivist above, but we're exploring other opportunities for linked data publishing. I appreciate the discussion of holding here -- with some of the concerns about domain specificity as discussed above...what holding means in an archival sense vs. what it means to offer things or own them. Short form is that I support the proposal as is. Longer-term, I think that there's more room for conversation about holding... |
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Since the failure of this proposal to make the cut for version 3.4 of Schema.org; I have received several statements of support and intentions to use these terms once adopted, via the Schema Architypes Community groups, and github comments. I reproduce them below so that the level of support and intention from significant individuals and significant archives organisations can be made apparent. Based upon this, plus positive responses in the individual issues that this PR enacts, I would strongly request that this PR is included in the 3.5 release. /cc @danbri
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I'll also add this Twitter thread between myself, @danbri, and @informaticmonad that adds some more context of other areas of work we're considering: https://twitter.com/InformaticMonad/status/1030175595949260800 |
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From a recent post to the Archives and Linked Data Interest Group discussion (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/archives-and-linked-data): ArchiveGrid is an open discovery system that OCLC's Research division maintains, to provide access to descriptions of archival materials, based (mostly) on MARC records from WorldCat, along with finding aids harvested from contributing institutions. All of the 5.4M ArchiveGrid records that are based on MARC records in WorldCat include JSON-LD schema.org data in their HTML source. I've recently updated the JSON-LD to incorporate the proposed ArchiveComponent, holdingArchive, and Archive extensions. Here's an ArchiveGrid search to return MARC records: https://researchworks.oclc.org/archivegrid/?p=1&q=type%3Amarc And here's a URL to view one of those records in the Google Structured Data testing tool, which should detect and display the embedded JSON-LD: The testing tool throws errors for the (currently) unrecognized Schema.org classes and predicates, as expected. I have questions about rendering information about the institution that holds the item. My previous practice had been to make use of the "offers" relationship and the "offeredBy" structure to link to the associated institution: "offers": { I've retained that structure, and have added a parallel "holdingArchive" relationship: "holdingArchive": { I noted that ArchivesSpace is now embedding JSON-LD on collection pages (on at least some sites), where the "provider" relationship is used to indicate the responsible institution. For example, in https://archives.etsu.edu/repositories/2/resources/2: "provider": { So I'm wondering what the recommended best practice is, and whether the parallel rendering I've adopted would be acceptable, at least for now. |
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This is indeed awesome Bruce! Thanks Mark for forwarding to the relevant lists, and again Bruce for adding to the pull request comments on the Schema.org Github. This will hopefully help push the PR over the edge into the next Schema.org release, especially with Mark viewing it from the standpoint of potential data consumption. Hopefully sometime soon after that merge, Google's testing tool will stop throwing errors for these terms. As to the questions raised... 'offeredBy', 'provider' & 'holdingArchive' on the surface are similar, but in detail have significant differences. offeredBy: A pointer to the organization or person making the offer provider: The service provider, service operator, or service performer; the goods producer. Another party (a seller) may offer those services or goods on behalf of the provider. A provider may also serve as the seller. holdingArchive: Archive that holds, keeps or maintains the ArchiveComponent I would comment that the Offer description could benefit from a few extra properties identifying the parameters of the offer such as businessFunction (Loan - http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut - practice defined with the library community), areaServed, availableAtOrFrom, price (0 - free), etc. |
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Looking at this, lots of good things about it, but let's discuss a couple of things.
Further, there is the growing sense in which "archive" is used for a wider range of archival activity. Archiving my digital photos, for example. Or an archive within an institution. Your current definition assumes archives are made available to the public. How about "ArchiveOrganization" instead of "Archive", and maybe sprinkle on a "typically" or "usually" to allow for non-public cases.
This is too specific to add purely for this sense of archive. Please postpone it for now. "Details of conditions of access and use of an archive or item" ... ... even for the very nearby usecase of libraries, museums, this property doesn't fit. We already have opening hours, I suggest whatever we do ought to apply to all visitable organizations/places i.e. local businesses. The case of modeling access details to a specific item is interesting but again very usecase specific. Can you post a few examples of this property so we can look for commonalities with other areas of schema markup? /cc @mkanzaki in case this is relevant to Japan Search too |
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@danbri - let's discuss a couple of things...
Seems a sensible suggested adjustment.
The intention of the property does have wider application not just in Archives, Libraries etc. It could be applicable to many CreativeWork subtypes. I am struggling to come up with another property name that means "what you have to do to get hold of this thing". I agree it is probably a good idea to put this particular property on hold for later proposal when more generic use cases and naming has been explored. I will update the proposal to reflect these two points. |
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@danbri 💬
Sounds good to me, and from what I see @RichardWallis used "potentially" as the word here. FWIW, the International Standard for Description of Institutions with Archival Holdings (ISDIAH) specifies that such institutions make materials available to the public, but I don't think we need to litigate this too much further. @danbri 💬
I will note that access restrictions often apply to an entire collection or a major section of them (e.g. a series). It may overlap with needs to express restrictions for access on datasets. This is a messy list of documentation and examples, so apologies - hope it's helpful though. Archives
Datasets (Perhaps an interesting aside...)
More cultural heritage examples
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@anarchivist Thanks for all the links & examples. @danbri 'accessRights' is a good candidate for a more generic property that would be helpful for most CreativeWork sub-types. |
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@danbri Suggested changes applied. |
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Added issue #2173 to discuss the |
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#application: schemaorgae
in app.yaml - intended?
Yes - it is needed (in the version of the code the PR branch is based upon) to run in the current dev environment where the application variable has been superseded by a deployment command line value. It now matches that setting in the master branch. /cc @danbri |
Implement Issue #1758 - Archives and their collections
Implement Issue #1759 - MaterialExtent & CollectionSize
New Types: Archive, ArchiveComponent
New Properties: accessConditions, archiveHeld, holdingArchive, collectionSize, materialExtent