20141007-inmarsat-royal-society-q-and-a.txt

1
00:00:02,467 --> 00:00:03,807
[noise]

2
00:00:03,907 --> 00:00:05,530
>> MODERATOR: Just a preamble:

3
00:00:05,630 --> 00:00:07,036
This is being recorded.

4
00:00:07,136 --> 00:00:08,743
So if you have a question.

5
00:00:09,306 --> 00:00:11,574
Raise your hand, 
I'll point at you.

6
00:00:11,674 --> 00:00:14,936
And then a microphone will be delivered to you.

7
00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:17,701
Please say who you are, 

8
00:00:17,801 --> 00:00:19,324
your affiliation if appropriate,

9
00:00:19,688 --> 00:00:21,990
and then ask your question.

10
00:00:23,446 --> 00:00:25,152
So, any questions? 

11
00:00:25,252 --> 00:00:26,461
First one there, Sir.

12
00:00:28,348 --> 00:00:29,375
(Mic's on its way)

13
00:00:30,915 --> 00:00:32,753
>> AUDIENCE 1: Thank you, very interesting talk.

14
00:00:33,995 --> 00:00:36,164
You got your position from one satellite,

15
00:00:36,605 --> 00:00:38,847
if the plane had been flying east or west

16
00:00:38,947 --> 00:00:41,066
it would have handed over to a second satellite.

17
00:00:41,579 --> 00:00:42,579
Could you have 

18
00:00:43,152 --> 00:00:45,056
"pinged" the plane

19
00:00:45,156 --> 00:00:46,265
from a second satellite.

20
00:00:46,365 --> 00:00:47,921
And therefore got two position lines?

21
00:00:48,616 --> 00:00:50,040
>> MARK DICKINSON: Obviously we checked our logs

22
00:00:50,140 --> 00:00:51,341
to see if that terminal had logged on

23
00:00:51,441 --> 00:00:52,640
to any other aircraft [sic]

24
00:00:52,789 --> 00:00:53,849
and it hadn't.

25
00:00:54,070 --> 00:00:55,230
It had obviously flown in 

26
00:00:55,330 --> 00:00:56,150
from somewhere else previously.

27
00:00:56,250 --> 00:00:58,564
It was in the logs for a different ground station

28
00:00:58,664 --> 00:01:00,019
or different satellite at an earlier time.

29
00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:01,599
But not during the flight itself.

30
00:01:02,368 --> 00:01:03,460
That would have been a great help.

31
00:01:03,619 --> 00:01:06,519
By having two arcs to intersect.
But no, we didn't.

32
00:01:06,619 --> 00:01:09,297
We only had messages from the Perth ground station.

33
00:01:09,397 --> 00:01:11,239
Over the IOR satellite.

34
00:01:13,502 --> 00:01:15,291
>> MODERATOR: Over there.

35
00:01:18,111 --> 00:01:19,649
>> PAUL SLADEN: Paul Sladen, Nineteen Inch Networks

36
00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:21,618
In order to know where something is relative

37
00:01:21,718 --> 00:01:24,423
to the spacecraft … (this is tracking and telemetry)

38
00:01:24,523 --> 00:01:26,591
In order to know where something is relative to the spacecraft

39
00:01:26,691 --> 00:01:28,266
you have to know where the spacecraft is.

40
00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:29,590
The orbit before was stable

41
00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:30,729
and the orbit after was stable.

42
00:01:30,829 --> 00:01:32,613
But on the day of 7 March

43
00:01:32,713 --> 00:01:35,325
there was an orbital manoeuvre…

44
00:01:36,011 --> 00:01:37,644
… station-keeping burn.

45
00:01:38,175 --> 00:01:40,986
Which produces uncertainties

46
00:01:41,086 --> 00:01:42,530
…transient uncertainties

47
00:01:42,864 --> 00:01:44,838
what was done to re-run the numbers

48
00:01:44,938 --> 00:01:46,610
or re-check the numbers after that burn;

49
00:01:46,710 --> 00:01:47,756
And when does it stabilise?

50
00:01:47,856 --> 00:01:50,191
>> MARK DICKINSON: The burn was done 24 hours previously.

51
00:01:50,988 --> 00:01:52,900
The orbit propagation software is a very…

52
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,172
An 80-second burn.

53
00:01:54,272 --> 00:01:55,582
East-west 80-second burn.

54
00:01:56,018 --> 00:01:57,018
Perturbs the orbit almost nothing.

55
00:01:58,424 --> 00:02:00,862
And the ECF files generated

56
00:02:00,962 --> 00:02:02,277
by the flight dynamics software

57
00:02:02,377 --> 00:02:04,382
automatically incorporates the burn prediction

58
00:02:04,482 --> 00:02:05,530
We've been flying this satellite

59
00:02:05,630 --> 00:02:07,985
for …almost twenty years.

60
00:02:08,085 --> 00:02:09,085
The burns are well-known

61
00:02:09,185 --> 00:02:10,774
and the orbit differences:

62
00:02:10,874 --> 00:02:12,267
absolutely minute.

63
00:02:12,369 --> 00:02:13,734
In terms of the relative motion.

64
00:02:13,834 --> 00:02:15,367
Almost negligible.

65
00:02:15,467 --> 00:02:16,467
It's a very small burn.

66
00:02:18,034 --> 00:02:24,608
[background noise]

67
00:02:25,752 --> 00:02:29,287
>> GHYSLAIN WATTRELOS: Since you released your data on May 27.

68
00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:32,463
There was a lot of experts who tried to do some work review.

69
00:02:32,563 --> 00:02:33,563
First of all

70
00:02:33,739 --> 00:02:35,155
One of the question is:

71
00:02:35,255 --> 00:02:36,674
A lot of data was missing.

72
00:02:36,774 --> 00:02:38,945
On the data you release on May 27

73
00:02:39,045 --> 00:02:40,922
A lot of lines were deleted.

74
00:02:41,173 --> 00:02:42,173
For any reason?

75
00:02:42,657 --> 00:02:43,946
What these experts

76
00:02:44,046 --> 00:02:45,158
try to do the same job

77
00:02:45,258 --> 00:02:46,995
they came up with different conclusions:

78
00:02:47,095 --> 00:02:48,730
more south-west more-or-less.

79
00:02:50,261 --> 00:02:51,588
So did you look at it?

80
00:02:51,844 --> 00:02:53,668
So did you answer those guys.

81
00:02:54,268 --> 00:02:56,041
And this is my first questions

82
00:02:56,141 --> 00:02:57,840
…and also…

83
00:02:57,940 --> 00:02:59,881
is it possible that you make publicly

84
00:03:00,047 --> 00:03:01,859
all of those datas.

85
00:03:01,959 --> 00:03:04,181
which would be *unredacted*.

86
00:03:06,082 --> 00:03:08,276
…This is the first question.
The second question is:

87
00:03:08,672 --> 00:03:09,999
There was also

88
00:03:10,099 --> 00:03:11,441
in the search:

89
00:03:12,818 --> 00:03:14,758
The search had been shifted again,

90
00:03:14,858 --> 00:03:16,710
far more south-west

91
00:03:16,810 --> 00:03:17,810
over the last month.

92
00:03:18,075 --> 00:03:19,427
After you release your data

93
00:03:22,145 --> 00:03:23,357
This, since then

94
00:03:23,457 --> 00:03:26,929
was done with satellite communication.

95
00:03:27,029 --> 00:03:28,716
From phone communication

96
00:03:28,816 --> 00:03:29,816
from the ground

97
00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:31,497
not anymore from your datas.

98
00:03:33,844 --> 00:03:35,503
The last month, again,

99
00:03:35,603 --> 00:03:37,417
search area was change

100
00:03:37,736 --> 00:03:38,833
to more south area

101
00:03:38,933 --> 00:03:40,645
did you use that data also

102
00:03:41,079 --> 00:03:42,686
to change your calculations;

103
00:03:42,786 --> 00:03:44,102
did it change anything to you?

104
00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:47,152
And… at the end

105
00:03:47,252 --> 00:03:48,797
if you change anything, what did you change?

106
00:03:48,897 --> 00:03:50,290
Did you changes any processes

107
00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:52,459
did you change …your new area?

108
00:03:52,559 --> 00:03:53,673
Lots and lots of questions there

109
00:03:53,773 --> 00:03:54,896
so let me start at the beginning.

110
00:03:54,996 --> 00:03:58,124
No lines were missing from the data released.

111
00:03:58,224 --> 00:03:59,642
Every entry…

112
00:03:59,742 --> 00:04:02,028
Some records within those individual lines were moved

113
00:04:02,128 --> 00:04:04,235
for readability because the log is huge.

114
00:04:04,746 --> 00:04:07,629
But all the lines are present from 16:00 onwards.

115
00:04:07,729 --> 00:04:08,831
No data is missing

116
00:04:08,931 --> 00:04:11,673
in terms of time, what information,

117
00:04:11,737 --> 00:04:13,102
what key message was sent,

118
00:04:13,523 --> 00:04:15,182
and BTO & BFO values.

119
00:04:15,552 --> 00:04:17,440
So all the analysis presented here.

120
00:04:17,797 --> 00:04:19,469
And is, and can be done

121
00:04:19,660 --> 00:04:21,217
by anyone who wants to do it.

122
00:04:21,255 --> 00:04:22,442
The information's there,

123
00:04:22,542 --> 00:04:23,768
so I don't think it's true to say that

124
00:04:24,126 --> 00:04:26,014
the information is not present.

125
00:04:26,792 --> 00:04:27,851
In terms of:

126
00:04:27,915 --> 00:04:29,790
You made reference to the phonecall.

127
00:04:30,071 --> 00:04:32,100
That is a phonecall in those logs.

128
00:04:32,827 --> 00:04:34,103
[unclear]

129
00:04:34,203 --> 00:04:36,144
There's a ground to air call, 

130
00:04:36,233 --> 00:04:37,076
unanswered,

131
00:04:37,176 --> 00:04:38,135
in the Inmarsat logs,

132
00:04:38,235 --> 00:04:39,806
It's already available, there.

133
00:04:40,125 --> 00:04:41,452
And the Doppler,

134
00:04:42,077 --> 00:04:43,531
on those measurements;

135
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,632
they use different channels.

136
00:04:46,732 --> 00:04:49,311
So we …The initial analysis was done

137
00:04:49,411 --> 00:04:52,807
Using the same channels that was available on the aircraft on the ground.

138
00:04:52,907 --> 00:04:55,424
[hesitating]

139
00:04:55,524 --> 00:04:57,362
These R-Channel messages,

140
00:04:57,462 --> 00:05:00,959
also C-Channel messages used for the calls:

141
00:05:01,059 --> 00:05:03,754
That's available in the logs, that's been released.

142
00:05:03,854 --> 00:05:06,305
And it was understanding the Doppler associated with that.

143
00:05:06,726 --> 00:05:10,579
In terms of moving the search area.

144
00:05:10,618 --> 00:05:13,618
That's really for the ATSB to say it's their:

145
00:05:13,667 --> 00:05:15,185
We're only an advisor to them.

146
00:05:15,285 --> 00:05:17,915
As part of the overall team.

147
00:05:18,015 --> 00:05:20,697
But I think it's …the point has come is

148
00:05:20,797 --> 00:05:22,509
That there's been a refinement in analysis.

149
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,894
I've mentioned the AFC correction.

150
00:05:24,994 --> 00:05:26,311
That's made small

151
00:05:26,630 --> 00:05:27,816
…a few Hertz change.

152
00:05:27,916 --> 00:05:30,878
But a few Hertz change makes a difference in terms of search area.

153
00:05:30,978 --> 00:05:32,230
That's really where the…

154
00:05:32,330 --> 00:05:34,733
[hesitating]

155
00:05:34,833 --> 00:05:37,525
The predicted times move slightly earlier for the turn south.

156
00:05:37,625 --> 00:05:39,018
[unclear]

157
00:05:39,528 --> 00:05:41,927
And also for the

158
00:05:42,027 --> 00:05:43,001
[hesitating]

159
00:05:43,101 --> 00:05:45,895
refinement in the AFC calculation.

160
00:05:45,995 --> 00:05:48,153
[hesitating]

161
00:05:48,253 --> 00:05:51,509
You can see now you've got pretty accurately with

162
00:05:52,172 --> 00:05:53,575
the component from the satellite.

163
00:05:53,675 --> 00:05:55,362
So I'm not sure there is any.

164
00:05:55,462 --> 00:05:58,462
[inaudible]

165
00:05:59,521 --> 00:06:01,065
>> MODERATOR: Question at the back here first of all,

166
00:06:01,116 --> 00:06:02,506
just decide, yes… you Sir.

167
00:06:02,904 --> 00:06:06,357
[noise]

168
00:06:06,957 --> 00:06:08,962
>> ROB RIDER: Rob Rider, Sat Corporation

169
00:06:09,587 --> 00:06:11,299
Just a little bit of clarity

170
00:06:11,399 --> 00:06:13,121
on your final determination

171
00:06:13,172 --> 00:06:14,499
of the flight path.

172
00:06:14,818 --> 00:06:15,903
Am I right in thinking…? 

173
00:06:16,003 --> 00:06:20,789
Did you use intersecting BTO and BFO contours?

174
00:06:20,889 --> 00:06:22,078
Or did I misunderstand that?

175
00:06:22,178 --> 00:06:23,698
[coughing]

176
00:06:23,928 --> 00:06:25,204
You have the BTO values.

177
00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:26,799
You have to cross over those arcs.

178
00:06:27,693 --> 00:06:28,993
That's at that time.

179
00:06:29,093 --> 00:06:30,577
Within ten kilometres or so.

180
00:06:30,677 --> 00:06:32,565
So the arcs are from the BTO.

181
00:06:33,114 --> 00:06:34,114
The BFO:

182
00:06:34,214 --> 00:06:35,538
just allows you to say:

183
00:06:36,278 --> 00:06:38,460
If I cross over the arcs,
at this particular location.

184
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,590
At this particular speed
would the BFO be.

185
00:06:40,690 --> 00:06:42,096
And you can compare that against

186
00:06:42,196 --> 00:06:44,648
what the model says.

187
00:06:45,056 --> 00:06:46,651
So two bits of information used.

188
00:06:46,689 --> 00:06:48,067
But they're not intersecting as such.

189
00:06:48,195 --> 00:06:50,414
You have to cross over the arcs at the right time.

190
00:06:50,514 --> 00:06:52,379
>> ROB RIDER: There's no contours from the BFO?

191
00:06:52,479 --> 00:06:54,051
>> MARK DICKINSON: I'm not sure I know what you mean by contours.

192
00:06:54,548 --> 00:06:57,534
>> ROB RIDER: In the same way you get contours from the BTO.

193
00:06:59,703 --> 00:07:00,762
They're not contours…

194
00:07:01,514 --> 00:07:03,415
Okay, they're a contour of constant 

195
00:07:03,734 --> 00:07:06,796
distance from the terminal to the satellite.

196
00:07:07,804 --> 00:07:09,693
I showed you something like a contour map

197
00:07:10,012 --> 00:07:12,448
earlier, where you had the northern latitudes

198
00:07:12,548 --> 00:07:14,235
showing in the negative values.

199
00:07:14,335 --> 00:07:18,407
And the southern latitudes showing in positive value.

200
00:07:18,507 --> 00:07:20,269
Because the satellite is moving from north to south.

201
00:07:21,060 --> 00:07:24,735
So in a way, that's also a contour, so yes.

202
00:07:25,679 --> 00:07:26,904
I can see where your question is coming from.

203
00:07:27,004 --> 00:07:28,004
And maybe, yes,

204
00:07:28,104 --> 00:07:29,532
The intersection of the two is.

205
00:07:30,298 --> 00:07:31,408
A good way of thinking about it.

206
00:07:31,663 --> 00:07:32,887
>> ROB RIDER: Okay. Thanks.

207
00:07:33,143 --> 00:07:35,605
>> MODERATOR: And then,
Gentleman in the purple shirt.

208
00:07:35,643 --> 00:07:37,468
And then behind there.

209
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,120
>> PAUL SLADEN: Paul Sladen again.

210
00:07:43,220 --> 00:07:45,429
Can I take you back to 08:00 on 23 May.

211
00:07:45,529 --> 00:07:46,909
Which is the morning that the

212
00:07:47,009 --> 00:07:50,022
Redacted log file was started to be prepared.

213
00:07:50,354 --> 00:07:53,913
And a couple of hours later you had the CNN interview with Richard Quest.

214
00:07:54,756 --> 00:07:58,698
In the redacted log file that was being prepared at 08:00 onwards.

215
00:07:58,902 --> 00:08:01,313
Only nine out of twenty-eight columns are present.

216
00:08:01,413 --> 00:08:04,044
Which is what I think the gentlemen over there's hinting at.

217
00:08:04,669 --> 00:08:05,677
But in the CNN interview.

218
00:08:05,996 --> 00:08:08,063
You very kindly showed the unredacted log.

219
00:08:08,163 --> 00:08:09,275
With all twenty-eight columns.

220
00:08:09,375 --> 00:08:12,426
We can see information in that such as the fuel load on take-off.

221
00:08:13,345 --> 00:08:15,539
And other relevant communications between

222
00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:18,831
parts of the aircraft to the ground.

223
00:08:20,987 --> 00:08:21,987
Perhaps that's the information…

224
00:08:22,087 --> 00:08:24,049
…Some other information that's not in there…

225
00:08:24,149 --> 00:08:26,167
We saw for today for the first time the

226
00:08:26,524 --> 00:08:29,076
gain values, that's the signal strength,

227
00:08:29,446 --> 00:08:30,773
which is also not in that log.

228
00:08:30,873 --> 00:08:33,171
Can you just perhaps follow-on to the gentlemen.

229
00:08:33,271 --> 00:08:36,961
And confirm that it's not the lines that are missing.

230
00:08:37,061 --> 00:08:38,760
But it is the columns that are missing.

231
00:08:38,860 --> 00:08:40,495
The actual payload of the data.

232
00:08:40,595 --> 00:08:41,694
>> MARK DICKINSON: Well it's not the payload.

233
00:08:41,962 --> 00:08:43,812
It's all signalling information.

234
00:08:43,912 --> 00:08:45,804
Nothing payload related in there,

235
00:08:45,904 --> 00:08:47,078
It's signalling information.

236
00:08:47,178 --> 00:08:49,630
And I think in the example in the release file.

237
00:08:49,923 --> 00:08:51,416
An example of every column is provided.

238
00:08:51,516 --> 00:08:53,100
This is saying that these are all information.

239
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,631
That is available in the full log.

240
00:08:54,937 --> 00:08:55,937
And these are the

241
00:08:56,037 --> 00:08:57,310
from the subsequent rows.

242
00:08:57,410 --> 00:08:59,237
You can see what information is contained in the log.

243
00:08:59,569 --> 00:09:01,916
And it's really up for the investigators to release what they want.

244
00:09:02,016 --> 00:09:03,016
It's not for Inmarsat.

245
00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:06,139
Inmarsat's just an adviser into the investigation team.

246
00:09:06,522 --> 00:09:09,788
>> PAUL SLADEN: But you were very comfortable showing the unredacted log to CNN.

247
00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:13,667
You showed five pages

248
00:09:13,767 --> 00:09:15,836
of the raw CSV file to CNN…

249
00:09:15,887 --> 00:09:16,691
>> MARK DICKINSON: …far longer than that.

250
00:09:16,791 --> 00:09:18,630
>> PAUL SLADEN: Those were the ones were I transcribed it

251
00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:19,730
and image processed it

252
00:09:19,830 --> 00:09:21,513
and ran the CRC-16s.

253
00:09:21,909 --> 00:09:23,835
Basically it's like breaking a 2,000-bit key.

254
00:09:23,935 --> 00:09:25,456
But I recovered the messages in there.

255
00:09:25,634 --> 00:09:27,191
>> MARK DICKINSON: …and was there anything surprising in there?

256
00:09:28,135 --> 00:09:30,189
>> PAUL SLADEN: Yeah, the fuel values. So forty-nine point…

257
00:09:30,623 --> 00:09:32,511
>> MARK DICKINSON: …I think the fuel values have been reported …ah. Okay.

258
00:09:32,611 --> 00:09:34,999
>> PAUL SLADEN: No. Malaysia reported 49.1 tonnes

259
00:09:35,305 --> 00:09:37,028
So there's a discontinuity there.

260
00:09:37,128 --> 00:09:38,128
>> MARK DICKINSON: I think I…

261
00:09:38,228 --> 00:09:39,094
All Inmarsat…

262
00:09:39,194 --> 00:09:40,102
We have our logs.

263
00:09:40,202 --> 00:09:42,195
We've analysed the BTO and BFO values.

264
00:09:42,295 --> 00:09:43,687
And we've provided the information.

265
00:09:43,787 --> 00:09:46,112
The whole investigation team's had all the logs,

266
00:09:46,212 --> 00:09:47,212
unredacted,

267
00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:49,140
throughout the whole period

268
00:09:49,684 --> 00:09:52,937
It's not with Inmarsat's job to release the data.

269
00:09:54,622 --> 00:09:56,127
>> MODERATOR: Okay the gentleman there.

270
00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:00,822
>> AUDIENCE 2: Thank you very much.

271
00:10:00,922 --> 00:10:05,096
For me, just looking at take-aways from the event.

272
00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:07,303
And part of the take-away is

273
00:10:07,403 --> 00:10:09,944
no consideration for

274
00:10:10,493 --> 00:10:13,147
black box in the cloud.

275
00:10:13,721 --> 00:10:15,482
I'm also looking at,

276
00:10:16,604 --> 00:10:17,676
and probably,

277
00:10:17,776 --> 00:10:19,373
if we mostly does

278
00:10:19,473 --> 00:10:21,019
[inaudible]

279
00:10:21,695 --> 00:10:22,741
precision in

280
00:10:23,813 --> 00:10:25,369
of location-based

281
00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:28,368
in an application of the

282
00:10:28,468 --> 00:10:31,736
[unclear]

283
00:10:31,836 --> 00:10:32,836
I'm looking at

284
00:10:32,936 --> 00:10:33,936
probably

285
00:10:34,036 --> 00:10:35,036
we'd have

286
00:10:35,347 --> 00:10:36,610
the precise

287
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:38,358
optimised

288
00:10:38,791 --> 00:10:40,858
temperature-compensated

289
00:10:41,088 --> 00:10:43,435
oven-ised oscillator

290
00:10:43,864 --> 00:10:44,864
on-board

291
00:10:44,964 --> 00:10:46,663
the navigation transponder.

292
00:10:46,763 --> 00:10:48,309
This could also help

293
00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:49,968
in-precision

294
00:10:50,721 --> 00:10:51,721
of the

295
00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:53,583
inner

296
00:10:54,344 --> 00:10:56,781
in location-based services,

297
00:10:56,881 --> 00:10:57,881
so to speak.

298
00:10:59,613 --> 00:11:01,923
>> DAVID COILEY: Right well, the…

299
00:11:02,981 --> 00:11:06,541
The position reporting recommendation that we're making.

300
00:11:06,898 --> 00:11:09,259
Which is also reflected in the

301
00:11:09,359 --> 00:11:11,861
recently released IATA

302
00:11:12,436 --> 00:11:16,186
Aircraft Tracking Taskforce recommendations

303
00:11:16,286 --> 00:11:19,759
is to use the ADS-C position report

304
00:11:20,256 --> 00:11:24,594
as the near-term basis for any improvement to

305
00:11:25,538 --> 00:11:28,537
position reporting, or the frequency of position reporting.

306
00:11:28,637 --> 00:11:30,859
It's widely accepted, it includes,

307
00:11:31,076 --> 00:11:33,094
adding I think five parameters including

308
00:11:33,194 --> 00:11:36,409
heading, speed, position, time.

309
00:11:37,264 --> 00:11:39,943
In terms of what the industry is already doing:

310
00:11:40,043 --> 00:11:42,201
all we're talking about here is exploiting something

311
00:11:42,301 --> 00:11:44,472
which most airliners are equipped

312
00:11:45,084 --> 00:11:46,156
to deliver.

313
00:11:46,256 --> 00:11:48,353
Most airlines use on a routine basis.

314
00:11:48,465 --> 00:11:50,111
For example, if you fly on the north-Atlantic

315
00:11:50,252 --> 00:11:51,693
it's mandated to use that capability

316
00:11:51,793 --> 00:11:54,921
to get preferred routeings.

317
00:11:55,021 --> 00:11:57,014
If you don't use that capability, you get

318
00:11:57,114 --> 00:12:01,722
a disadvantageous flight track across the Atlantic.

319
00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:03,725
It is something that is widely used

320
00:12:03,825 --> 00:12:05,039
All we're simply saying, we're trying

321
00:12:05,139 --> 00:12:07,246
to do as much as we can

322
00:12:07,346 --> 00:12:09,772
to encourage the use of that capability

323
00:12:10,104 --> 00:12:12,388
globally, ideally.

324
00:12:13,089 --> 00:12:15,794
But the true FANS ABS-C capability

325
00:12:15,894 --> 00:12:17,784
is only implemented in certain

326
00:12:18,206 --> 00:12:20,847
flight information regions around the world.

327
00:12:20,947 --> 00:12:22,850
Shown in one of the charts as the purple area.

328
00:12:22,950 --> 00:12:25,516
But there are other areas where it's not implemented.

329
00:12:26,447 --> 00:12:28,948
But what the IATA ATTF

330
00:12:29,048 --> 00:12:30,571
has also recommended is that

331
00:12:30,671 --> 00:12:32,852
 airlines themselves take responsibility

332
00:12:32,952 --> 00:12:34,268
for tracking their own aircraft.

333
00:12:34,445 --> 00:12:35,532
And what that's doing

334
00:12:35,632 --> 00:12:38,900
is by-passing the need for various air-traffic control/

335
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,750
air navigation service providers

336
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:43,250
to upgrade or

337
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:45,891
perform to various FANS standards.

338
00:12:45,991 --> 00:12:49,961
And as we know, a lot of aircraft operators already do:

339
00:12:50,293 --> 00:12:54,082
To give that same, highly-reliable, 

340
00:12:54,299 --> 00:12:58,280
widely implemented ADS-C FANS capability

341
00:12:58,380 --> 00:12:59,773
to the airliners themselves.

342
00:12:59,873 --> 00:13:02,605
Airliners use basic position reporting

343
00:13:02,705 --> 00:13:04,863
that gives them an idea of where their aircraft is.

344
00:13:04,963 --> 00:13:08,550
Just synchronise everything around the same format of reporting.

345
00:13:09,116 --> 00:13:10,507
In terms of location.

346
00:13:10,774 --> 00:13:11,969
It is already there.

347
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:14,037
It doesn't need anything more

348
00:13:14,137 --> 00:13:16,309
in terms of more reliable oscillator.

349
00:13:16,409 --> 00:13:18,103
All the position report is doing

350
00:13:18,203 --> 00:13:19,941
is taking the navigation data

351
00:13:20,041 --> 00:13:21,733
from another aircraft system

352
00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:22,833
and downlinking it.

353
00:13:22,933 --> 00:13:24,838
In the form of a fixed-format message.

354
00:13:25,318 --> 00:13:27,433
It's widely understood, and it's doing something,

355
00:13:27,533 --> 00:13:30,066
that as I say, has been

356
00:13:30,166 --> 00:13:32,165
used vastly around the world

357
00:13:32,265 --> 00:13:33,517
for many years.

358
00:13:33,989 --> 00:13:35,215
Currently on our network actually

359
00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:37,055
that are using that capability

360
00:13:37,155 --> 00:13:39,507
to report down to every two minutes anyway.

361
00:13:39,908 --> 00:13:42,353
You know, it's something that aircraft operators.

362
00:13:42,453 --> 00:13:44,146
depending on what their business model is

363
00:13:44,246 --> 00:13:45,341
will do that anyway

364
00:13:45,545 --> 00:13:46,545
For the north Atlantic, I think

365
00:13:46,645 --> 00:13:50,356
the reporting interval is every eighteen minutes, on average.

366
00:13:50,456 --> 00:13:52,754
Outside of the north Atlantic, so globally,

367
00:13:52,854 --> 00:13:54,295
 it's ever twenty-two minutes.

368
00:13:54,395 --> 00:13:57,038
We're not talking about much in terms of improvements.

369
00:13:57,290 --> 00:14:00,049
And the other thing to remember is this deviation report.

370
00:14:00,149 --> 00:14:02,517
As soon as the aircraft deviates away from

371
00:14:02,617 --> 00:14:06,063
its filed flight plan.

372
00:14:06,163 --> 00:14:08,630
That also, is already in place

373
00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:09,930
to trigger a position report to

374
00:14:10,030 --> 00:14:12,441
give you that position at that particular time.

375
00:14:12,751 --> 00:14:14,422
And again, the likes are SITA and ARINC

376
00:14:14,522 --> 00:14:16,465
have very sophisticated software packages

377
00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,381
and message handling solutions

378
00:14:19,481 --> 00:14:20,613
that will allows airlines to get

379
00:14:20,713 --> 00:14:23,169
a host more out of this type of capability.

380
00:14:23,496 --> 00:14:25,371
Just one by-product of it is

381
00:14:25,471 --> 00:14:28,281
it handles and displays position reports.

382
00:14:28,381 --> 00:14:31,670
Which allows them to more easily manage those size of things.

383
00:14:31,770 --> 00:14:33,908
So again, from a flight tracking perspective

384
00:14:34,008 --> 00:14:35,410
a solution already exists.

385
00:14:35,510 --> 00:14:39,128
It's just stimulating the much-wider adoption

386
00:14:39,228 --> 00:14:40,228
on a global basis

387
00:14:40,328 --> 00:14:42,030
 of that capability, and that indeed

388
00:14:42,130 --> 00:14:44,083
is what the IATA ATTF has done.

389
00:14:44,465 --> 00:14:46,117
As regard to black box in the cloud

390
00:14:46,217 --> 00:14:48,418
there are very many more issues around that.

391
00:14:49,602 --> 00:14:51,102
As I said in the presentation,

392
00:14:51,202 --> 00:14:53,365
it's less getting the data off the aircraft

393
00:14:53,465 --> 00:14:56,774
it's more deciding what the trigger point would be for that.

394
00:14:56,874 --> 00:14:58,149
There are some other, sort of…

395
00:14:58,455 --> 00:15:02,007
how shall I describe it… human factor-related

396
00:15:02,761 --> 00:15:05,989
issues as of increasing surveillance for flight crews and things like that.

397
00:15:06,089 --> 00:15:07,364
But the technology exists;

398
00:15:07,464 --> 00:15:09,054
it's about the business model,

399
00:15:09,154 --> 00:15:11,126
it's about finding a way that

400
00:15:11,226 --> 00:15:12,845
the industry can embrace it

401
00:15:12,945 --> 00:15:15,223
and deploy it very rapidly.

402
00:15:18,737 --> 00:15:20,084
>> MODERATOR: Question, …here?

403
00:15:20,184 --> 00:15:21,282
>> MIKE FIKUART: …I'm here.

404
00:15:21,382 --> 00:15:22,661
>> MODERATOR: …and then half-way back.

405
00:15:25,157 --> 00:15:26,434
>> MIKE FIKUART: Hi, I'm Mike Fikuart.

406
00:15:26,534 --> 00:15:29,772
I was interested in the data that gets downloaded.

407
00:15:29,872 --> 00:15:31,753
How much data gets download.

408
00:15:31,853 --> 00:15:34,513
What is your storage capacity?  How long do you retain

409
00:15:34,613 --> 00:15:37,454
this data for, how long back can you see?

410
00:15:37,554 --> 00:15:39,369
And following on from that.

411
00:15:39,469 --> 00:15:41,312
You're talking about increasing your…

412
00:15:42,429 --> 00:15:44,263
…Doubling your ping-rate.

413
00:15:44,363 --> 00:15:45,363
From an hour to half-an-hour now.

414
00:15:45,463 --> 00:15:46,965
Obviously that would double the rate.

415
00:15:47,065 --> 00:15:48,636
What capacities do you have?

416
00:15:48,827 --> 00:15:50,198
>> MARK DICKINSON: Well it doesn't quite double the rate.

417
00:15:50,298 --> 00:15:51,350
It only doubles it for those

418
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:53,191
terminals which aren't logging on every time.

419
00:15:53,291 --> 00:15:54,576
Most terminals log-on, so

420
00:15:54,676 --> 00:15:56,285
in fact they have more data-rate.

421
00:15:56,648 --> 00:15:59,436
This is only a scenario where the [unclear]

422
00:15:59,536 --> 00:16:02,378
terminals doesn't log into the network for a while.

423
00:16:02,616 --> 00:16:04,135
The logs are large

424
00:16:05,233 --> 00:16:06,742
But they're there…

425
00:16:07,028 --> 00:16:08,413
The logs are there for engineering purposes

426
00:16:09,033 --> 00:16:10,033
to manage the network.

427
00:16:10,313 --> 00:16:11,402
They were never intended

428
00:16:12,003 --> 00:16:13,197
to be used in this way.

429
00:16:13,297 --> 00:16:14,582
We keep them for a long time.

430
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,558
Actually I was surprised how long we do keep them for.

431
00:16:16,658 --> 00:16:18,487
…How long we can keep them for.

432
00:16:18,888 --> 00:16:20,311
But they are very large

433
00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:22,861
We obviously keep them because

434
00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:24,417
questions can come up

435
00:16:24,517 --> 00:16:26,852
if an aircraft goes missing like this.

436
00:16:27,311 --> 00:16:29,880
Or if there's any performance issues, or anything like that.

437
00:16:31,465 --> 00:16:34,358
But, yeah, we keep them for significant amounts of time.

438
00:16:34,578 --> 00:16:36,039
I can't put a number of months on that.

439
00:16:36,139 --> 00:16:37,662
I can't remember off the top of my head, but it is months.

440
00:16:37,762 --> 00:16:38,762
>> MIKE FIKUART: Right.

441
00:16:38,862 --> 00:16:39,862
>> MARK DICKINSON: They are large, aswell.

442
00:16:40,078 --> 00:16:41,205
>> MIKE FIKUART: And are these

443
00:16:41,305 --> 00:16:42,953
disseminated on to other organisations

444
00:16:43,053 --> 00:16:44,194
or is this retained with Inmarsat?

445
00:16:44,294 --> 00:16:45,378
>> MARK DICKINSON: …They're purely management logs.

446
00:16:45,478 --> 00:16:46,478
Kept in the network.

447
00:16:46,578 --> 00:16:48,443
And people

448
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:50,124
if the authorities need to…

449
00:16:51,891 --> 00:16:53,447
If SITA or ARINC want to distribute it [unclear]

450
00:16:53,547 --> 00:16:56,398
…if you have their customer's data, then they can ask for them.

451
00:16:59,244 --> 00:17:00,896
[coughing]

452
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:06,129
>> RICK LIPSCOMB: Hi, Rick Lipscomb from the RAF Flight Safety team

453
00:17:06,931 --> 00:17:08,654
In the first presentation,

454
00:17:08,811 --> 00:17:11,648
it's not such a technical question as some of the others perhaps, but

455
00:17:12,078 --> 00:17:14,179
you kept referring to "the terminal"

456
00:17:14,561 --> 00:17:15,561
on-board the aircraft

457
00:17:15,661 --> 00:17:17,263
now it's widely believed that

458
00:17:17,363 --> 00:17:18,619
somebody on the flightdeck

459
00:17:18,719 --> 00:17:21,341
manually de-selected a lot of the comms systems

460
00:17:22,461 --> 00:17:24,561
I was just wondering what you meant by "the terminal"?

461
00:17:24,661 --> 00:17:26,068
That was clearly not affected

462
00:17:26,168 --> 00:17:28,503
by any of this manual de-selection

463
00:17:28,603 --> 00:17:31,301
that went on of the radios

464
00:17:31,401 --> 00:17:32,401
potentially IFF

465
00:17:32,501 --> 00:17:33,678
and all those other systems.

466
00:17:34,099 --> 00:17:36,142
What exactly was "the terminal"?

467
00:17:36,242 --> 00:17:38,845
>> MARK DICKINSON: The terminal is the Satcom Unit.

468
00:17:39,162 --> 00:17:40,162
>> RICK LIPSCOMB: Okay.

469
00:17:40,262 --> 00:17:41,022
>> MARK DICKINSON: That's the simpl…

470
00:17:41,122 --> 00:17:42,301
>> RICK LIPSCOMB: …There's no means of

471
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,106
manually de-selecting that.

472
00:17:44,206 --> 00:17:45,539
>> MARK DICKINSON: I'm no expert on …

473
00:17:45,768 --> 00:17:48,127
All I'm looking at is the data we've got.

474
00:17:48,227 --> 00:17:50,991
How/what/when and stuff like that is for the investigation team, not for me.

475
00:17:53,388 --> 00:17:57,991
I don't know, I'm not expert in, like you are, in how aircraft work.

476
00:17:58,091 --> 00:18:00,388
All we do is looking after the data we have.

477
00:18:00,789 --> 00:18:06,060
And the terminal logs back on again at 18:25 or so.

478
00:18:06,337 --> 00:18:07,722
You can see that in the logs.

479
00:18:08,237 --> 00:18:09,297
>> RICK LIPSCOMB: Okay, thank you.

480
00:18:09,565 --> 00:18:11,231
>> MODERATOR: Okay, we've got time for one more question.

481
00:18:11,331 --> 00:18:12,263
Then we'll have to close.

482
00:18:12,315 --> 00:18:13,174
Down here.

483
00:18:19,697 --> 00:18:22,179
>> AUDIENCE 3: Inmarsat's a commercial company.

484
00:18:22,437 --> 00:18:24,662
You've done a tremendous job by the sound of it.

485
00:18:25,923 --> 00:18:26,923
How much as this

486
00:18:27,345 --> 00:18:28,898
put an extra burden on the

487
00:18:28,998 --> 00:18:30,315
running of the company?

488
00:18:32,101 --> 00:18:33,648
>> MARK DICKINSON: Well, my time, quite a lot.

489
00:18:33,748 --> 00:18:35,205
Over the overall company is…

490
00:18:36,265 --> 00:18:38,489
We certainly haven't been paid, or would want to be paid for any of it.

491
00:18:38,589 --> 00:18:41,077
It's not… we're not doing it for that reason at all.

492
00:18:41,383 --> 00:18:42,472
For certain bits of the company.

493
00:18:42,572 --> 00:18:44,057
It's taken a lot of time and effort.

494
00:18:44,563 --> 00:18:46,549
But we're doing it for the right reasons

495
00:18:46,649 --> 00:18:47,649
of helping the investigation.

496
00:18:48,173 --> 00:18:52,202
Inmarsat's …a company which has safety at its heart.

497
00:18:52,302 --> 00:18:55,191
It's where its roots are: maritime safety.

498
00:18:55,291 --> 00:18:57,531
And that's the culture throughout the company.

499
00:18:57,631 --> 00:19:00,233
And so when things like this happen.

500
00:19:00,539 --> 00:19:02,124
There's never a question about

501
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:05,600
how much it's going to cost us.

502
00:19:05,953 --> 00:19:08,092
We just do it, because it's the right thing to do.

503
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:09,360
It really is a…

504
00:19:10,843 --> 00:19:13,335
You can really see how people were keen

505
00:19:13,435 --> 00:19:15,503
to try and help and bring their expertise along

506
00:19:16,725 --> 00:19:20,134
to try and solve this tragic situation.

507
00:19:20,234 --> 00:19:21,872
>> DAVID COILEY: I can actually say in addition.

508
00:19:22,139 --> 00:19:23,619
Partly because of this situation

509
00:19:23,719 --> 00:19:26,140
but also coming on the back of Air France 447.

510
00:19:26,628 --> 00:19:29,636
And the fact that it will stimulate 

511
00:19:31,230 --> 00:19:34,549
more requirements for both tracking and streaming of datas.

512
00:19:34,649 --> 00:19:37,857
We are significantly increasing our resources

513
00:19:37,957 --> 00:19:39,939
to be able to support…

514
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,852
For example, today there are three industry meetings going on.

515
00:19:42,952 --> 00:19:46,433
If you count this as one; we have people in Washington, D.C.;

516
00:19:46,533 --> 00:19:48,233
We have people in Montreal.

517
00:19:48,333 --> 00:19:49,460
So we are staffing up.

518
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,660
Because there is a significant increase

519
00:19:51,876 --> 00:19:53,628
and interest in this area

520
00:19:53,728 --> 00:19:54,728
and it is something

521
00:19:54,828 --> 00:19:57,443
that Inmarsat services will be used more.

522
00:19:57,758 --> 00:20:00,919
We have a capability that can meet the industry requirements.

523
00:20:01,019 --> 00:20:03,822
So, it has cost something to support this.

524
00:20:04,061 --> 00:20:05,183
It's what we do, particularly

525
00:20:05,283 --> 00:20:07,909
as Inmarsat's data is the only material data

526
00:20:08,009 --> 00:20:10,831
which can help the MH370 investigation.

527
00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:14,030
We will then take more, and continue to invest.

528
00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:16,437
You know, given the seven-figure sum we invested

529
00:20:16,537 --> 00:20:18,222
in just the Classic Aero network.

530
00:20:18,322 --> 00:20:20,075
The significantly greater sum in the…

531
00:20:20,858 --> 00:20:22,644
in the SwiftBroadband safety network.

532
00:20:23,876 --> 00:20:25,862
It is something were we do find ourselves

533
00:20:26,148 --> 00:20:29,576
having a capability that the industry can benefit from.

534
00:20:30,302 --> 00:20:32,403
>> MODERATOR:  Okay, thank you very much for that.

535
00:20:32,503 --> 00:20:34,122
Thank you for all your questions.

536
00:20:34,222 --> 00:20:36,724
I'd now like to invite Richard Peckham to the stage.

537
00:20:36,824 --> 00:20:38,553
To give the vote of thanks.

538
00:20:43,721 --> 00:20:45,070
>> RICHARD PECKHAM: Thank you you very much Chris.

539
00:20:45,170 --> 00:20:46,635
I'm Richard Peckham, I'm here just

540
00:20:46,735 --> 00:20:48,341
representing the IET's 

541
00:20:48,441 --> 00:20:52,332
Satellite Systems and Applications Network.

542
00:20:53,294 --> 00:20:56,811
Now, while I expect I found both talks fascinating, I suspect

543
00:20:56,911 --> 00:21:00,156
Like most you in the audience here, you saw the reports at the time.

544
00:21:00,421 --> 00:21:02,830
And we saw Chris McLaughlin quite frequently.

545
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:04,006
I know Chris quite well.

546
00:21:04,106 --> 00:21:05,976
He's definitely not an engineer.

547
00:21:06,076 --> 00:21:07,822
So I was really looking forward, I have to say

548
00:21:07,922 --> 00:21:10,977
to hearing from an engineer about how it was really done

549
00:21:11,077 --> 00:21:12,815
in a bit more technical gory detail.

550
00:21:12,915 --> 00:21:15,150
And I think somebody here described it as forensics

551
00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:17,442
And that really, was what it was.

552
00:21:17,542 --> 00:21:20,391
I work with Airbus Defence and Space

553
00:21:20,491 --> 00:21:21,782
Formerly known as Astrium, so

554
00:21:21,882 --> 00:21:26,227
We built the Inmarsat-3, 4, and the Alphasat satellites.

555
00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:27,478
So kind of an interest

556
00:21:27,578 --> 00:21:30,227
because it's part of the Airbus Group.

557
00:21:30,327 --> 00:21:32,445
You know, quite an interest generally in aviation.

558
00:21:33,571 --> 00:21:35,343
Prior to joining the space sector in 2000

559
00:21:35,443 --> 00:21:38,158
I worked in air traffic management in fact, for about fifteen years.

560
00:21:38,258 --> 00:21:40,841
And was working on kind of FANS-1 and things.

561
00:21:40,941 --> 00:21:42,273
It's obviously been very disappointing

562
00:21:42,373 --> 00:21:44,831
that you know, when so much time's moved on

563
00:21:44,931 --> 00:21:47,175
that the capability that's been around for ages.

564
00:21:47,275 --> 00:21:49,442
Just isn't being used

565
00:21:49,542 --> 00:21:51,596
So David, it was really good David to hear from you.

566
00:21:52,184 --> 00:21:54,502
And Inmarsat taking an initiative now

567
00:21:54,602 --> 00:21:56,398
To try and make sure that the technology that's been

568
00:21:56,498 --> 00:21:58,327
here for ages actually gets used.

569
00:21:58,427 --> 00:22:00,206
And we don't get in this situation again.

570
00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:02,673
So it's my pleasure to kind of thank you.

571
00:22:02,773 --> 00:22:05,712
And to offer you a little bit of IET memorabilia.

572
00:22:05,812 --> 00:22:06,812
Which looks very good actually!

573
00:22:07,434 --> 00:22:09,372
So, Mark, thank you very much.

574
00:22:10,473 --> 00:22:23,290
[applause]

575
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:24,556
And thank you all for coming.