Segregated #1135

matkoniecz · 2018-07-14T13:54:48Z

If desirable I may split ImageList modification to a separate PR.

westnordost

I will draw the pictograms and an icon

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:46:07Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/ImageListQuestAnswerFragment.java

@@ -85,7 +85,7 @@

 	protected int getItemsPerRow()
 	{
-		return 4;
+		return Math.min(4, getItems().length);


This and the changes to the other quests is not a good idea. The quest types below have 3 per row, not because they are exactly three choices, but the size of photo-selection-items should be not still smaller than that. Pictograms and icons are usually clear enough that they can be smaller.

OK, I will drop this part.

Pictograms and icons are usually clear enough that they can be smaller.

Is it still desirable to show two small icons with blank space on the right side (that is what happens where there is not enough entries to fill even the first row?

Generally, I see not even single quest where getItemsPerRow was set to value higher than count of possible answers.

removed from this PR

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:46:47Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/QuestModule.java

@@ -121,6 +122,7 @@
 				new AddWheelChairAccessToilets(o),
 				new AddReligionToWaysideShrine(o),
 				new AddBikeParkingType(o),
+				new AddSegregated(o),


I think what is segregated could be put in the class name here

Previously it was baroque AddSegregatedStatusOfCombinedFootwayAndCycleway but it was ridiculous.

AddIsCyclewaySegregated?

AddCyclewaySegregated?

AddCyclewaySegregated sounds like it is about mapping cycleways. AddCyclewaySegregatedStatus?

AddCyclewaySegregation?

that is good, thanks

EDIT: applied

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:48:04Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/segregated/AddSegregated.java

+				"(" +
+				"(highway = path and bicycle = designated and foot = designated)" +
+				" or (highway = footway and bicycle = designated)" +
+				" or (highway = cycleway and foot = designated)" +


Why only designated?

because (at least in my experience) highway=footway + bicycle=yes is always segregated=no

Is it possible that bicycle has dedicated part of path and the way is not dedicated to usage by cyclists?

I can change that but I am curious how correctly tagged "highway=footway + bicycle=yes + segregated=yes" or "highway=cycleway + foot=yes + segregated=yes" looks like.

Did not we discuss this in the issue already?

highway=footway + bicycle=yes + segregated=yes

Okay, yeah, must always be not segregated. Don't know what this has to do with the quest selection though.

But I'd also include the yes values. Because the wiki says:

This [segregated] key is used for combined cycle- and footways. If both have their own lane, tag segregated=yes. If they share one lane, tag segregated=no.

So actually segregated is never implied and as such the tagging of bike and footway is incorrect without a segregated tag. And it is best, if a surveyor can verify or deny whether the way is segregated or not.

It is rather a good reason to change wiki.

If someone can provide a photo of correctly tagged "highway=footway + bicycle=yes + segregated=yes" or "highway=cycleway + foot=yes + segregated=yes" location I may make change that will include =yes values.

The sign, @ENT8R linked or included there – which link is apparently gone – is this one:

Yes, I know about such places. But every single one that I encountered with this sign of equivalent is not segregated. That is why I asked for a photo of such location.

To add my two cents:
At least in Germany, and apparently documented that way in the German wiki (didn't check), there exists the opinion that only cycleways which are compulsory to use should be tagged with cycleway=designated. And I think this has been documented like this already a long time because I remember when I started with OSM, I decided to rather not tag any cycleway as designated (from satellite imagery) but rather as just yes because I was not sure if it was compulsory to use. See also this forum topic to see that this opinion is still around.
Long story short, and wrong as this "only in Germany, designated has a special additional meaning" may be, it has been practised like this for a long time, so chances are that a lot of these situations are around.

If the solution here should be to include all yes as well then, ... well, this is something we should discuss.

I guess it also never does any harm to include yes. These are only a few extra roads then, ….

"only a few extra roads" - my city has 970+ highway=footway + bicycle=yes without segregated, all of them are segregated=no ( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Ajo )

Well, then perhaps not include footways with cycleway=yes after all. The Germans just need to get their act together and fix their tagging practice.

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:48:46Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/segregated/AddSegregated.java

+				" or (highway = footway and bicycle = designated)" +
+				" or (highway = cycleway and foot = designated)" +
+				")" +
+				" and surface !~" + TextUtils.join("|", OsmTaggings.ANYTHING_UNPAVED) +


or rather surface ~ ...ANYTHING_PAVED?

This quest is after surface quest so either

surface is added (so unpaved should exclude, at least once support locking quests (changes made using StreetComplete sometimes should remove active quests) #746 is fixed)

user disabled surface quest

So the difference exists when

user added unpaved, until support locking quests (changes made using StreetComplete sometimes should remove active quests) #746 is fixed (not showing is preferable)

surface is unpaved, user disabled surface quest (not showing is preferable)

surface is paved, user disabled surface quest (showing is preferable)

So in the end I planned to convince you that surface !~ ANYTHING_UNPAVED is preferable but rather convinced myself.

I will take list of paved surfaces from https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/ace127056386dc7aa0dd0b9e428d049c986e5df7/project.mml#L500

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:49:08Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/segregated/AddSegregated.java

+
+	@Override
+	public void applyAnswerTo(Bundle answer, StringMapChangesBuilder changes) {
+		List<String> values = answer.getStringArrayList(AddPowerPolesMaterialForm.OSM_VALUES);


PowerPolesMaterialForm?

ops (it still worked)

EDIT: Fixed

westnordost · 2018-07-14T22:52:50Z

app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

@@ -609,5 +609,8 @@ Otherwise, you can download another keyboard in the app store. Popular keyboards
    <string name="quest_address_answer_no_housenumber_message2">Is this correct and is it not just part of a building?</string>

    <string name="notification_channel_download">"Download"</string>
+    <string name="quest_segregated_title">How footway and cycleway are combined here?</string>


Hmm, my first suggestion is:

How are the foot- and cycleway laid out here?

Segregated from one another

Cyclists and pedestrians share same space

Thanks, I really like this version.

edit: changed

matkoniecz · 2018-07-15T07:56:14Z

I will draw the pictograms and an icon

Thanks!

rugk · 2018-07-15T13:27:33Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/segregated/AddSegregated.java

+		return
+			"ways with " +
+				"(" +
+				"(highway = path and bicycle = designated and foot = designated)" +


BTW, did you consider what happens if this quest get's tagging invalid values? Such as highway = footway and foot = no (and e.g. bicycle=designated to trigger this quest)?
Don't know whether/how we should handle it, but it may be an edge-case that is happening and could result in bad taggings or so.

BTW, did you consider what happens if this quest get's tagging invalid values? Such as highway = footway and foot = no (and e.g. bicycle=designated to trigger this quest)?

No, but I will do it now. A good point, thanks for catching.

Such combination appears 25 times worldwide ( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Aj7 ) so I will happily ignore it.

I opened notes for this problems and commented on changesets that introduced this. I will consider asking for JOSM validator complaints on highway=footway and foot=no.

Of course it is rare – everything else would be embarrassing. 😉
But I don't think ignoring is the best way here, because we are not talking about including tags/quests, because they are rare, but about a mistagging that may affect this quest.

Thinking about it, however, I guess it really is not bad to show this quest for such situations. Because it does not worsen the mistagged information (i.e. now the footway/foot=no is tagged with segregated=no or so, well… who cares?) and one also does not expect that SC would fix these issues.

Generally maybe it would be a good idea to add these two other answers though:

"This is a cycleway only" | "This is a footway only"

Just leaving a note for these small changes, which are very easy to identify for a surveyor looking at the path, would be a bit too much, IMHO.

Regarding your last suggestion, @rugk , if you look outside "signposted" Germany, you will find that many sidewalks and paths will have no signs at all. How would one distinguish the case that pedestrians and cyclists are mixed from that no cyclists are allowed (i.e. because surveyor doesn't see one right now or subjectively thinks cyclists should not use this path)?

Oh, yeah, indeed difficult. So rather leave them out.

westnordost · 2018-07-21T21:18:36Z

The drawables are there now, btw

rugk · 2018-07-22T15:15:33Z

So another thing: What about including side lanes? There, those features are likely most relevant.

matkoniecz · 2018-07-22T15:46:36Z

What about including side lanes?

Can you clarify what you mean? It is unclear what and how is supposed to be included.

rugk · 2018-07-22T16:08:13Z

Sorry, meant sidewalks. They may also be queried and the same tags (with prefix) can be added. Example: #527 (comment)

matkoniecz · 2018-07-22T17:46:28Z

It is about "#527 (comment) but not mapped as a separate path."? I see no good reason to handle it in the same quest - it requires a completely different query and applied tags are also different.

rugk · 2018-07-23T05:52:38Z

Yeah it's about the comment I've linked (it's the beginning).

E.g.:

cycleway:right=track
cycleway:right:bicycle=designated
cycleway:right:segregated=yes

Or with sidewalk:

sidewalk=right sidewalk:right:foot=designated sidewalk:right:bicycle=yes sidewalk:right:oneway=*

I see no good reason to handle it in the same quest

Excect taht it is totally the ame question, UI and everything. Okay, maybe slight changes to indicate the user what way the quest asks about, but it's the same topic with the same possible quest.

applied tags are also different.

Not really, you just have to prefix them. AFAIK this was also done in other quests like this.

matkoniecz · 2018-07-23T06:20:51Z

It requires different UI (to handle separately left/right info - both form and question will be different), a completely different query and requires handling of prefixes for added tags.

Only quest icon will be the same.

rugk · 2018-07-23T10:43:25Z

I thought it could just ask for the left and right sidewalk separately, then the UI is the same. In a minimal way, the question alone could mention, which sidewalk it is asked about.

matkoniecz · 2018-07-23T11:15:52Z

You need to communicate to user which sidewalk is right and left (it would probably reuse cycleway/oneway quest UI)

matkoniecz · 2018-07-24T06:04:44Z

I am unsure is it important enough to block merging or is it a pointless bikeshedding.

At least on my phone, the initial quest UI view shows almost entire selection area, but a small part is obscured and needs to be pulled up. I think that it would be preferable to show all of it (similar things happens in some other quests).

The second issue is that the text on the "shared space" symbol is on part of pedestrian symbol what is not looking ideal.

westnordost · 2018-07-24T12:02:12Z

Hmm right, this does not look nice. You can easily change the size of the xml vector icons by modifying the android:width/height property.

Quest forms that show icons usually use another item layout which shows the text below the icon, not above it. See for example the sports quests. Also possible would be to show the text right of the icon, like in the building quest (but in two columns, if there is space).

# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/QuestModule.java # app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

…traffic

westnordost · 2018-08-15T19:52:35Z

done and tested.

matkoniecz · 2018-08-15T21:18:08Z

Sorry, I had no time recently - and thanks for finishing this!

rugk · 2018-08-16T08:54:39Z

BTW while adapting the overpass-query for overpass-turbo for the Quests wiki, I noticed that this quest seems to be extremely rare. In whole Rom (in Den Haag: only 8 and Netherlands are said to be bicycle-friendly) only one element was returned. When removing the "paved street" limitation it were a few more, at least.
I guess, what limits this quest, is not only this "paved street", but even more the strong "designated" requirements. Maybe they are not always tagged correctly or so.

So just FYI, maybe the data is also already so good that most places have segregated already. 😉

westnordost · 2018-08-16T09:09:27Z

I rather think this is because most of these ways are actually tagged something with ...=yes rather than designated. But well, I think we already discussed that the quest should only show on designated.

Though, perhaps it could also show on cycleway +foot=yes.

westnordost · 2018-08-16T09:11:53Z

Also, another reason why few of it shows is that it is only shown for paved - so if the surface hasn't been tagged yet, the quest also doesn't appear, which is okay

rugk · 2018-08-16T09:19:48Z

Though, perhaps it could also show on cycleway +foot=yes.

I'd also say so, but OP said:

because (at least in my experience) highway=footway + bicycle=yes is always segregated=no

Which may be true, but I guess many things are not correctly tagged like this and pay attention to this difference. Maybe that's why the wiki says, "segregated" should always be tagged.

In any case, given the low results of the quest, I feel it would not hurt to decrease the limits anymore. An explicitly tagged "segregated" very certainly does not hurt anyone, but it may help, as it may not always be clear that "highway=footway + bicycle=yes" (or reverse) is this "Footway, but 🚲 are allowed".

westnordost · 2018-08-16T09:35:11Z

I meant highway=cycleway + foot=yes, not highway=footway + bicycle=yes.

Edit: ...because the former doesn't really make sense, so the app could assume that what the person tagging this meant was actually foot=designated.

rugk · 2018-08-16T11:18:14Z

Ah, I get your point. Yes, it really makes no sense, or, at least, I have not seen it anywhere, yet.

westnordost requested changes Jul 14, 2018

View reviewed changes

rugk mentioned this pull request Jul 15, 2018

New quest: Segregated ways for bikes and pedestrians? #527

Closed

rugk reviewed Jul 15, 2018

View reviewed changes

matkoniecz force-pushed the segregated branch from 206f675 to b3d9a4f Compare July 15, 2018 13:31

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [drawables are missing]~~ Segregated [drawables are missing + waits for fixes by PR author] Jul 15, 2018

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [drawables are missing + waits for fixes by PR author]~~ Segregated [drawables are missing + retest after adding graphics] Jul 18, 2018

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [drawables are missing + retest after adding graphics]~~ Segregated [add drawables + retest after adding graphics] Jul 22, 2018

AddSegregated, fixes streetcomplete#527

23e7ffb

matkoniecz force-pushed the segregated branch from 80fb95b to 23e7ffb Compare July 23, 2018 06:56

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [add drawables + retest after adding graphics]~~ Segregated [retest after adding graphics] Jul 23, 2018

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [retest after adding graphics]~~ Segregated [ready for review] Jul 24, 2018

matkoniecz changed the title ~~Segregated [ready for review]~~ Segregated [change layout] Jul 24, 2018

westnordost added 3 commits August 15, 2018 21:30

Merge branch 'master' into segregated

537f11f

# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/QuestModule.java # app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

make use of the different icons depending on left-hand or right-hand …

449dc00

…traffic

set different layout

23973aa

westnordost merged commit 616e93d into streetcomplete:master Aug 15, 2018

westnordost changed the title ~~Segregated [change layout]~~ Segregated Aug 15, 2018

matkoniecz deleted the segregated branch August 16, 2018 09:35

Segregated #1135

Segregated #1135

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matkoniecz commented Jul 14, 2018

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