quote + boost

[triplefox]

This turned out to be a major Twitter feature: being able to inline the text of a retweet while adding your own. It was done by manually copy-pasting the text before a feature was developed. How to go about implementing this, or an equivalent? How would it work with our visibility rules?

[LogicalDash]

1. When a toot contains a link to another toot, embed a preview of the latter in the former
2. Some kind of interface affordance, button or menu entry idk, to automagically copypaste a link to the toot your mouse is on into the toot editor, then put your cursor before that
3. Notification when someone quotes your toot this way

[LogicalDash]

1. When a toot contains a link to another toot, embed a preview of the latter in the former
2. Some kind of interface affordance, button or menu entry idk, to automagically copypaste a link to the toot your mouse is on into the toot editor, then put your cursor before that
3. Notification when someone quotes your toot this way

[Gargron]

Could be something like OEmbed, then the same mechanism could be used for embedding youtube/soundcloud/GNU social statuses/anything that supports OEmbed.

[Gargron]

Could be something like OEmbed, then the same mechanism could be used for embedding youtube/soundcloud/GNU social statuses/anything that supports OEmbed.

[hikari-no-yume]

How would this work with federation? Has anything in the wider network implemented this?

[hikari-no-yume]

How would this work with federation? Has anything in the wider network implemented this?

[hikari-no-yume]

quitter.no apparently can even quote tweets (that is, from Twitter). Dunno if that's standard.

[hikari-no-yume]

quitter.no apparently can even quote tweets (that is, from Twitter). Dunno if that's standard.

[Gargron]

Okay, so GNU social quoting tweets is the same mechanism as any link (it does an OEmbed), but for actual fediverse statuses it seems to use a slightly different mechanism, and I'm thinking I might want to specialize it too, since it'd be useful to create notifications about quotes, and also have a little more control about displaying them in the UI.

[Gargron]

Okay, so GNU social quoting tweets is the same mechanism as any link (it does an OEmbed), but for actual fediverse statuses it seems to use a slightly different mechanism, and I'm thinking I might want to specialize it too, since it'd be useful to create notifications about quotes, and also have a little more control about displaying them in the UI.

[hoodiek]

i would suggest making a quote tweet be noticeable as a reply to the post, that also has the link and OEmbed view of the toot. this would happen even if the user just copied a link to the toot, ideally, to make it so people can't effectively do what not implementing quote-toots would do, namely, allow people to know when people are talking about them.

[hoodiek]

i would suggest making a quote tweet be noticeable as a reply to the post, that also has the link and OEmbed view of the toot. this would happen even if the user just copied a link to the toot, ideally, to make it so people can't effectively do what not implementing quote-toots would do, namely, allow people to know when people are talking about them.

[pief]

Would love to see this, too! +1

[pief]

Would love to see this, too! +1

[Swipe650]

Any progress on this? Would love to see this implemented.

[Swipe650]

Any progress on this? Would love to see this implemented.

[ghost]

@Swipe650 yes me too, it would be a great new user-oriented feature. No milestone though.

[ghost]

@Swipe650 yes me too, it would be a great new user-oriented feature. No milestone though.

[El-Gavy]

+1 !

[El-Gavy]

+1 !

[BasixKOR]

It is what I need.

[BasixKOR]

It is what I need.

[LogicalDash]

I would also be satisfied with some way to make it "stick" when I boost something and then post about it -- that is, make sure the boosted post and mine will appear next to one another in the timeline.

[LogicalDash]

I would also be satisfied with some way to make it "stick" when I boost something and then post about it -- that is, make sure the boosted post and mine will appear next to one another in the timeline.

[fenarinarsa]

This is actually a major feature on Twitter and it's missing badly on Mastodon.
I hope it will be implemented soon :)

[fenarinarsa]

This is actually a major feature on Twitter and it's missing badly on Mastodon.
I hope it will be implemented soon :)

[Cassolotl]

I like quote-boosting and no harassment, so I'm wondering whether experienced admins would be willing to share their thoughts on the possibility of quote-boosting being allowed, and there being instance rules that say "no using quote-boosts for evil" or something like that?

Edit: This is because I've heard several times now some rumours that the reason quote-boosts haven't been implemented is because it's likely to be used for harassment and other bad stuff - similar to the motivation of only being able to use the search for hashtags, usernames and toot URLs.

[Cassolotl]

I like quote-boosting and no harassment, so I'm wondering whether experienced admins would be willing to share their thoughts on the possibility of quote-boosting being allowed, and there being instance rules that say "no using quote-boosts for evil" or something like that?

Edit: This is because I've heard several times now some rumours that the reason quote-boosts haven't been implemented is because it's likely to be used for harassment and other bad stuff - similar to the motivation of only being able to use the search for hashtags, usernames and toot URLs.

[thiagomgd]

I love and hate the quote option on the birdsite. Why:

Love: I can share AND comment at the same time. Of course, boosting and then replying would have kind of the same result, but anyway...

Hate: people use that to spread the flame wars. Instead of replying the poster, they share / comment, just to make their followers be able to harass the original poster.

So I have a few considerations:
Instances should be able to block it
Users should be able to block it (let's say I don't want anyone quoting me)
And of course, each instance would add some rules about that.

And at last, of course, we should see the embed/quoted toot, as we do on that other site.

[thiagomgd]

I love and hate the quote option on the birdsite. Why:

Love: I can share AND comment at the same time. Of course, boosting and then replying would have kind of the same result, but anyway...

Hate: people use that to spread the flame wars. Instead of replying the poster, they share / comment, just to make their followers be able to harass the original poster.

So I have a few considerations:
Instances should be able to block it
Users should be able to block it (let's say I don't want anyone quoting me)
And of course, each instance would add some rules about that.

And at last, of course, we should see the embed/quoted toot, as we do on that other site.

[fsnk]

I too would like this feature. I feel like it adds value to the conversation to know why someone in my timeline is boosting something. If they agree or disagree or what their thoughts are or it's their friend's artwork or whatever. I also think that embedding the boosted toot makes for a more streamlined experience.

Something I dislike about how this is implemented in other platforms is that the comment becomes the primary status for replies, which can create confusion in threading. Especially if people are quote boosting replies to quote boosted replies to quote boosted replies.

Regarding the harassment issue, I've definitely seen this used on other sites to start dogpiles, but I'm not sure that the bad use of the feature outweighs the value it adds in giving context and enabling conversations. I've seen Mastodon users screenshot other users' posts to criticize and denigrate already; all it needs is a link to the original status and that behavior is essentially duplicated. And the original user never knows it's happening, unlike a quote boost where they should get a notification.

Having an automated feature would make harassment easier by cutting out the screenshot/image add/link paste actions, but not having the feature doesn't stop it. (And that technique is still used on other social media sites that do have the ability to quote boost when harassers want to obscure where the dogpile is coming from.)

So I guess the thing is, how to implement this feature in a way that gives the original poster some control over the boosting? Maybe give users the ability to remove their status from the quote boost, leaving a comment that was intended to provoke harassment without context? (Much like deleting a quoted tweet does on Twitter.)

I don't know. I would definitely like some kind of feature that allows me to attach a comment to a boost though.

[fsnk]

I too would like this feature. I feel like it adds value to the conversation to know why someone in my timeline is boosting something. If they agree or disagree or what their thoughts are or it's their friend's artwork or whatever. I also think that embedding the boosted toot makes for a more streamlined experience.

Something I dislike about how this is implemented in other platforms is that the comment becomes the primary status for replies, which can create confusion in threading. Especially if people are quote boosting replies to quote boosted replies to quote boosted replies.

Regarding the harassment issue, I've definitely seen this used on other sites to start dogpiles, but I'm not sure that the bad use of the feature outweighs the value it adds in giving context and enabling conversations. I've seen Mastodon users screenshot other users' posts to criticize and denigrate already; all it needs is a link to the original status and that behavior is essentially duplicated. And the original user never knows it's happening, unlike a quote boost where they should get a notification.

Having an automated feature would make harassment easier by cutting out the screenshot/image add/link paste actions, but not having the feature doesn't stop it. (And that technique is still used on other social media sites that do have the ability to quote boost when harassers want to obscure where the dogpile is coming from.)

So I guess the thing is, how to implement this feature in a way that gives the original poster some control over the boosting? Maybe give users the ability to remove their status from the quote boost, leaving a comment that was intended to provoke harassment without context? (Much like deleting a quoted tweet does on Twitter.)

I don't know. I would definitely like some kind of feature that allows me to attach a comment to a boost though.

[nolanlawson]

I agree with @thiagomgd that this feature is a mixed bag. In fact, overall I'd rather not have it, or have it turned off by default.

Reason being: this feature is often misused for dog-piling and abuse. When it was first introduced on Twitter, I saw it quickly appropriated for the purpose of directing one's followers against another user. Frequently this spirals out of control, with endless quote-tweeting (such that you have to click multiple times to even follow the kaleidoscoping conversation), and tweets are often taken out of context (especially if it makes for a better punchline at the other person's expense).

Quote-tweeting can be used for good, but in my experience it's more often used for nastiness. I call this the "Hey everybody, get a load of THIS jerk!" phenomenon.

Of course you can already do this with a screenshot, but at least with screenshots you're not notifying the other person that you're mocking/disparaging them (which can escalate the situation). Plus quote-tweeting makes this kind of harassment easier to do, and affordances matter.

I don't always agree with Paul Graham, but his assessment of this feature rings true with my experiences.

[nolanlawson]

I agree with @thiagomgd that this feature is a mixed bag. In fact, overall I'd rather not have it, or have it turned off by default.

Reason being: this feature is often misused for dog-piling and abuse. When it was first introduced on Twitter, I saw it quickly appropriated for the purpose of directing one's followers against another user. Frequently this spirals out of control, with endless quote-tweeting (such that you have to click multiple times to even follow the kaleidoscoping conversation), and tweets are often taken out of context (especially if it makes for a better punchline at the other person's expense).

Quote-tweeting can be used for good, but in my experience it's more often used for nastiness. I call this the "Hey everybody, get a load of THIS jerk!" phenomenon.

Of course you can already do this with a screenshot, but at least with screenshots you're not notifying the other person that you're mocking/disparaging them (which can escalate the situation). Plus quote-tweeting makes this kind of harassment easier to do, and affordances matter.

I don't always agree with Paul Graham, but his assessment of this feature rings true with my experiences.

[fenarinarsa]

IMO abuse and dogpiling can be done without this feature. As said above, a simple screenshot is enough to start harrassment, and anyway people who want to abuse the system will always find a way (and they love to subtweet/subtoot to obfuscate the origin of the harrassment). Quote+boost on the other way could be useful to trace down all boosts origin for instance moderators, and removing the original toot should leave the boosts without reference to the original post.

Furthermore, on Twitter I often quote political or news posts to answer or comment publicly, often joking or being ironic. Sometimes I also boost by adding "this art is great", and so on.
I miss this deeply on Mastodon, where the only choice I have is "boosting or not boosting", meaning "I agree" or "I don't agree" without any possibility of having more subtle nuance in my boosts.

[fenarinarsa]

IMO abuse and dogpiling can be done without this feature. As said above, a simple screenshot is enough to start harrassment, and anyway people who want to abuse the system will always find a way (and they love to subtweet/subtoot to obfuscate the origin of the harrassment). Quote+boost on the other way could be useful to trace down all boosts origin for instance moderators, and removing the original toot should leave the boosts without reference to the original post.

Furthermore, on Twitter I often quote political or news posts to answer or comment publicly, often joking or being ironic. Sometimes I also boost by adding "this art is great", and so on.
I miss this deeply on Mastodon, where the only choice I have is "boosting or not boosting", meaning "I agree" or "I don't agree" without any possibility of having more subtle nuance in my boosts.

[h-2]

Wow, I was really surprised (in the negative sense) that this doesn't work. IMHO it's a central feature of twitter (being able to comment on other tweets) and not having this in Mastodon is a real limitation.
Also being able to quote tweets from twitter would make migrating from twitter step-by-step a lot easier.

[h-2]

Wow, I was really surprised (in the negative sense) that this doesn't work. IMHO it's a central feature of twitter (being able to comment on other tweets) and not having this in Mastodon is a real limitation.
Also being able to quote tweets from twitter would make migrating from twitter step-by-step a lot easier.

[PubliqPhirm]

As a middle ground between fully implementing Twitter-style quote toots and not having inline previews at all, we could not have a button that will make a quote toot but do expand links to fediverse posts inline so you could still link to and comment about a post in an inline fashion.

RE: harassment/dogpiling—do we have data beyond personal anecdotes as to whether users are less likely to engage in bad behavior when the (intentional or accidental) target of ire is linked with no preview, when it's an unverifiable screenshot (easily faked; in my experience, no one on social media has actually let the existence of dev tools fun stop them from making conclusions based on screenshots of conversation), when it's a simple inline preview, and when it's a full Twitter-style quote toot?
My gut feeling is that Twitter and screenshots make it the worst and previews cause slightly more problems than naked links, but the Twitter and screenshot cause so much more problems that the difference between a simple embedded preview and a naked link could be negligible.
This also touches on a related discussion as to whether stopping talking behind a user's back is more important or stopping hostile @ interactions is more important. Given the decision to avoid full-text search, the Masto decision is currently on the side of letting people talk negatively about one another behind their backs so long as that stops users from being directly nasty in mentions.

[PubliqPhirm]

As a middle ground between fully implementing Twitter-style quote toots and not having inline previews at all, we could not have a button that will make a quote toot but do expand links to fediverse posts inline so you could still link to and comment about a post in an inline fashion.

RE: harassment/dogpiling—do we have data beyond personal anecdotes as to whether users are less likely to engage in bad behavior when the (intentional or accidental) target of ire is linked with no preview, when it's an unverifiable screenshot (easily faked; in my experience, no one on social media has actually let the existence of dev tools fun stop them from making conclusions based on screenshots of conversation), when it's a simple inline preview, and when it's a full Twitter-style quote toot?
My gut feeling is that Twitter and screenshots make it the worst and previews cause slightly more problems than naked links, but the Twitter and screenshot cause so much more problems that the difference between a simple embedded preview and a naked link could be negligible.
This also touches on a related discussion as to whether stopping talking behind a user's back is more important or stopping hostile @ interactions is more important. Given the decision to avoid full-text search, the Masto decision is currently on the side of letting people talk negatively about one another behind their backs so long as that stops users from being directly nasty in mentions.

[LoMakesComics]

my unsolicited 2c:
I'm one of the artists/comic people that recently migrated to mastodon from twitter alongside a bunch of my peers.
Even with most of the same people here, we all agree the atmosphere feels a lot different: way more personal, and so far it feels less like constantly performing in front of an audience.

We think a big part of it is that you don't see the numbers everywhere (followers/likes/RTs/etc), which definitely helps in making the place feel like less of a competition, and in return makes the place more welcoming to just being authentic. And we love it!

When considering the effects of a lack of quote+boost, we were reminded of the impact it had on Twitter when it was implemented. In hindsight, it changed the way we engaged with content drastically, even if we didn't notice at the time.

In the words of jones@mastodon.social: "quote-tweeting is what ruined us all there. i think it encouraged us to be more performative than ever... to make quippy clapbacks at a faceless entity and humiliate them for those sweet likes and RTs i guess"

In any case, I understand the feature has its legitimate uses and it can certainly be useful, but it's worth considering its effects on the behavior of the userbase itself.
Certainly, the increased engagement was useful for Twitter the company, even if the quality of engagement decreased greatly.

[LoMakesComics]

my unsolicited 2c:
I'm one of the artists/comic people that recently migrated to mastodon from twitter alongside a bunch of my peers.
Even with most of the same people here, we all agree the atmosphere feels a lot different: way more personal, and so far it feels less like constantly performing in front of an audience.

We think a big part of it is that you don't see the numbers everywhere (followers/likes/RTs/etc), which definitely helps in making the place feel like less of a competition, and in return makes the place more welcoming to just being authentic. And we love it!

When considering the effects of a lack of quote+boost, we were reminded of the impact it had on Twitter when it was implemented. In hindsight, it changed the way we engaged with content drastically, even if we didn't notice at the time.

In the words of jones@mastodon.social: "quote-tweeting is what ruined us all there. i think it encouraged us to be more performative than ever... to make quippy clapbacks at a faceless entity and humiliate them for those sweet likes and RTs i guess"

In any case, I understand the feature has its legitimate uses and it can certainly be useful, but it's worth considering its effects on the behavior of the userbase itself.
Certainly, the increased engagement was useful for Twitter the company, even if the quality of engagement decreased greatly.

[fenarinarsa]

I just read LoMakesComics comment and what's incredible is that I use quote+RT on twitter for exactly the opposite: sharing an artist's work I like. With no quote it's harder to share a picture with no context whatsoever (espescially when you don't usually share pics). The only other way to add a comment when sharing would be to copy/paste the artwork, and I don't want to do that. In that case I prefer not to share.

[fenarinarsa]

I just read LoMakesComics comment and what's incredible is that I use quote+RT on twitter for exactly the opposite: sharing an artist's work I like. With no quote it's harder to share a picture with no context whatsoever (espescially when you don't usually share pics). The only other way to add a comment when sharing would be to copy/paste the artwork, and I don't want to do that. In that case I prefer not to share.

[Swipe650]

Is abuse that big of an issue on mastodon? I thought that nonsense only took place on the bird site.

[Swipe650]

Is abuse that big of an issue on mastodon? I thought that nonsense only took place on the bird site.

[moosfromamsterdam]

Simple solution: show ‘my reply’ under a boosted post on my timeline and the other timelines

No need to change functionality of boosting. Just write a reply to the post you want to boost to let everyone see your ‘motivation’ for boosting it.

[moosfromamsterdam]

Simple solution: show ‘my reply’ under a boosted post on my timeline and the other timelines

No need to change functionality of boosting. Just write a reply to the post you want to boost to let everyone see your ‘motivation’ for boosting it.

[deutrino]

The utility of this is huge and I frequently wish it were possible. It's almost a daily thing that I wish I could boost something cool with a little comment of my own.

How about, instead of (or in addition to) a simple on-off switch, we let the user restrict quoting to followers only? I believe either or both of these would be good to toggle in settings, e.g.

[] don't allow anyone to quote me
[x] only allow followers to quote me

[deutrino]

The utility of this is huge and I frequently wish it were possible. It's almost a daily thing that I wish I could boost something cool with a little comment of my own.

How about, instead of (or in addition to) a simple on-off switch, we let the user restrict quoting to followers only? I believe either or both of these would be good to toggle in settings, e.g.

[] don't allow anyone to quote me
[x] only allow followers to quote me

[PubliqPhirm]

Another important use case for some quote boost feature: adding CWs to posts you boost. Currently, if you want to boost a post that needs a CW that’s from an instance that uses software that doesn’t support CWs or has more looser CW rules or culture, you need to paste in a link to the original post and put it behind the CW. There are two main issues with this: 1. This requires copy & pasting the URL of the post you want to boost, which may not have an immediately obvious mechanism.  Third-party apps can probably automate this for you somewhat, if they so desired. 2. The post renders as just some other link on the receiving end and opens in a new tab, like it’s some generic off-site link, so you can’t boost it yourself or favorite or reply to it without knowing that you fist much copy the URL and paste it into your instance’s searchbox (even if those features are disabled for “not being like Twitter” reasons, the new tab for a fediverse post is a rather jarring user experience).  It should be relatively easy to add inline client-side rendering of links to posts from known Mastodon instances (unless they have modified their instance’s code to have a different URL scheme than vanilla Mastodon).  Clicking an inline preview should open the linked post in the third column, like when clicking a specific post on your home TL. I’m kind of surprised some third-party mobile apps (Amaroq, Tootle, Tootdon, etc…) or alternate UI views (Glitch or Pleroma's Masto frontend) have not implemented this feature already, especially on the mobile end, where (at least personally) new tabs are more annoying to deal with than on the desktop view.

…

On Jan 19, 2018, 14:48 -0500, Deutrino ***@***.***>, wrote: The utility of this is huge and I frequently wish it were possible. It's almost a daily thing that I wish I could boost something cool with a little comment of my own. How about, instead of (or in addition to) a simple on-off switch, we let the user restrict quoting to followers only? I believe either or both of these would be good to toggle in settings, e.g. [] don't allow anyone to quote me [x] only allow followers to quote me — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[PubliqPhirm]

Another important use case for some quote boost feature: adding CWs to posts you boost. Currently, if you want to boost a post that needs a CW that’s from an instance that uses software that doesn’t support CWs or has more looser CW rules or culture, you need to paste in a link to the original post and put it behind the CW. There are two main issues with this: 1. This requires copy & pasting the URL of the post you want to boost, which may not have an immediately obvious mechanism.  Third-party apps can probably automate this for you somewhat, if they so desired. 2. The post renders as just some other link on the receiving end and opens in a new tab, like it’s some generic off-site link, so you can’t boost it yourself or favorite or reply to it without knowing that you fist much copy the URL and paste it into your instance’s searchbox (even if those features are disabled for “not being like Twitter” reasons, the new tab for a fediverse post is a rather jarring user experience).  It should be relatively easy to add inline client-side rendering of links to posts from known Mastodon instances (unless they have modified their instance’s code to have a different URL scheme than vanilla Mastodon).  Clicking an inline preview should open the linked post in the third column, like when clicking a specific post on your home TL. I’m kind of surprised some third-party mobile apps (Amaroq, Tootle, Tootdon, etc…) or alternate UI views (Glitch or Pleroma's Masto frontend) have not implemented this feature already, especially on the mobile end, where (at least personally) new tabs are more annoying to deal with than on the desktop view.

…

On Jan 19, 2018, 14:48 -0500, Deutrino ***@***.***>, wrote: The utility of this is huge and I frequently wish it were possible. It's almost a daily thing that I wish I could boost something cool with a little comment of my own. How about, instead of (or in addition to) a simple on-off switch, we let the user restrict quoting to followers only? I believe either or both of these would be good to toggle in settings, e.g. [] don't allow anyone to quote me [x] only allow followers to quote me — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[Cassolotl]

@PubliqPhirm You might be interested in:

Clicking a URL of a toot should open the toot in the search area #2136

[Cassolotl]

@PubliqPhirm You might be interested in:

Clicking a URL of a toot should open the toot in the search area #2136